User talk:Struway2/Archive 2

Dates
Hey, I'm now not marking them as minor changes, but the script does it automatically, so I have to change it and occasionally one slips through. I'm de-linking the dates, which is the main priority, the format change is an unintentional side-effect of the script. The MOS contradicts itself a little (most of them do!) as it also say to use the date style associated with the language of the article (for example if it was written in Americanized English, then use the American format). So seeing as the article is written in English and on the English wiki, I don't see a major problem with using English date formatting. But like I said, it's not my intention to change the format, just to de-link them as per the guidelines djdannyp 09:34, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Vandal
Cheers. Indef blocked. Btw, did you go back to see if attended to your comments on the old Olympics athletics list? I haven't checked.... Cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:10, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Bryan Orritt
Thank you for spotting my error Bashereyre (talk) 19:24, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Simon Wormull
The article on Simon Wormull is one of the best I've seen about a non-league player. Reckon you could get it to GA with a few tweaks. Nice work. --Jameboy (talk) 17:58, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, have been on a bit of a break. I noticed you'd put the article up for GAN though. I can't see much more that needs doing. Maybe mention what (else) he does for a living, if his work was conflicting with his football? --Jameboy (talk) 18:14, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, it was no trouble at all, I enjoy reviewing "soccer" players. :) Good job for your part, really the article was well-written, just some minor adjustments to it and now you got yourself a GA. ;) --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 15:09, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar
Very kind of you and great work on Wormull. There seems to be a fair few footy GAs coming through at the mo, which is really good to see. I've got Ronnie Wallwork at GAN so I should hopefully be able to contribute one myself. --Jameboy (talk) 23:52, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Featured list candidates/List of Olympic records in athletics
Hey Struway, can you just confirm that I've addressed your latest comment? Cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:50, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Ditto, cheers! The Rambling Man (talk) 09:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

FLC input
Hi there Struway, with regards to the the FLC of Aston Villa F.C. statistics and records, could I trouble you to have a look at User:Woody/Sandboxes/Aston Villa. I have done a mock-up of the Honours with runners up included, I didn't realise we have come second in the 1st Division 10 times! Do you still think it should be included? If so, I will do it now. Regards. Woody (talk) 17:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * So, does the premiership go on a separate line? Woody (talk) 17:37, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Added it in now, any outstanding issues from your end? Oh, and just to point out how I have taken the moral high ground, refusing to comment on just how big our Honours section is, or how at least we have been in the running for first place, compared to some clubs. Ah, that high ground, such a nice place to be. Oh wait... ;-)) Regards. Woody (talk) 18:15, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * High ground didn't last for long in my case! I would have tried to find a middle finger salute emoticon if I was in your shoes, but maybe that is just me! At least neither of us support Newcastle! I have put in the spaces now. Thanks for all your time on the the very detailed review. Regards. Woody (talk) 19:44, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Would it be possible to offer an explicit opinion in the current FLC? Thanks and regards. Woody (talk) 14:31, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

P.S.
Any disrespect to rat-faced Judas Roeder by the mis-spelling of his name is purely intentional :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:38, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Paul Mullin
I got the stats for Paul Mullin on www.soccerfactsuk.co.uk

Bruce
Cheers! I'll see if I can slot them in..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:26, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Thomas Farnall
I don't think I'll have much to add. However, one quick thing I've noticed, my book has him born in 1876, whereas you've currently got 1871. I have to say the book has been wrong on a few of the older players. How sure are you about his date of birth? Peanut4 (talk) 16:48, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

England-footy-midfielder-1870s-stub
Hi - I see you have recently created one or more new stub types. As it states at Stub, at the top of most stub categories, and in many other places on Wikipedia, it is recommended that new stub types are proposed prior to creation at WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals, in order to check whether the new stub type is already covered by existing stub types, whether it is named according to stub naming guidelines, whether it is otherwise correctly formatted, whether it reaches the standard threshold for creation of a new stub type, and whether it crosses existing stub type hierarchies. Your new stub type is currently listed at WP:WSS/D - please feel free to make any comments there as to any rationale for this stub type. And please, in future, consider proposing new stub types first! Grutness...wha?  08:21, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem. This template does make sense, as I mentioned on the discovery page. It's all simply a case of trying to keep all our ducks in a line, as it were - when you're trying to keep track of a list of several thousand different stub types, it's important to try to get some sort of order in them (hence the proposal process). As for the notice in the categories, you're right, but unortunately a lot of those notices are subst'ed in, so changing them all would be a big task. Grutness...wha?  09:33, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Joe Smith
Firstly thanks for creating an article that was on my to do list, I'll see what I can add to it. I'd support a page move. I agree that Joe Smith 1889 is possibly better known, but not to the extent of being the primary topic. Both players won England caps, and 400+ league apps for Albion (most of which were in the First Division) is not to be sniffed at. If you've no objections I'll first run the idea past Dudesleeper (the resident Blackpool expert), and take it from there. Are you happy that both articles are distinguished adequately from the Canadian footballer Joe Smith (football player)? I'm never quite sure how far to take the disambiguation between different types of football. --Jameboy (talk) 17:09, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the note. The Betts book has both players listed as "Joseph Smith", but then goes on to refer to them both as "Joe", so I'm happy to have the article at the title you have given it. The redlinks on the list are only provisional titles and I'm sure some of them will already have articles under a slight variation of the name. I track them down form time to time - one day all the redlinks will be done, but I'm not in favour of creating two line stubs. I prefer to leave the redlink until a full(ish) article can be created. As for the other Joe Smith (footballer), I can see no reason why he shouldn't be moved to Joe Smith (footballer born 1889) - I can only concur with Jameboy's comments above. Finally - the date of birth is also given in the Betts book as 10 April 1890, but I suspect he gets a lot of his statistics from the same sources as www.englandstats.com. I suggest that a note should be put on the talk page explaining the differences.  Cheers  Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 17:47, 17 September 2008 (UTC) (Off to see if Saints kids can get their fisrt home points tonight - Fingers crossed!)
 * Cheers for that. Yeah, I probably should have waited until I had more time to check the links before doing the move. I think the majority of the links stem from the managerial templates, so would be quick to fix, but the current configuration seems fine too. --Jameboy (talk) 10:56, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Brucie
Cheers for the link, not sure how I missed that one on Newsbank considering how many other links to that site I've used :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:26, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * BTW she doesn't have the look of a future WAG in the photo in his autobiography, but then she is still in nappies ;-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:28, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Apostrophe
Thanks - I had realised I was wrong, but you beat me to the revert. ++ MortimerCat (talk) 23:11, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

56 FA Cup
What do you think about pushing on to take it to FAC (with a peer review first of course)? Getting Trautmann to FA has given me a renewed vigour for the process. Oldelpaso (talk) 08:08, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I think its certainly feasible. There's not much in the way of similar articles at FA to compare with, except 2007 UEFA Champions League Final, and some stats-heavy American football articles, but its pretty comprehensive thanks to our combined sources, it has free images, the prose is most of the way there. The lead needs work, but that should be easy enough. I'm wondering whether to start a "legacy" section, in which the subsequent fortunes of the teams can be briefly described (i.e. that it was a high-water mark for us, with a decline following that was not arrested until Mercer arrived, that Trautmann was out for 6 months, etc.) though keeping it free of original research might not be easy.


 * A picture of the cup itself would be useful, but we only have pictures of the previous and subsequent trophies, not the one used from 1911–1992. Oldelpaso (talk) 15:15, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The current trophy is an exact replica, so in terms of appearance we could use a more recent one, but that feels like cheating. An article put up for FA ought to be a role model, so the match details box should be exemplary. Not to sure about the external link that was recently put in there either. Oldelpaso (talk) 12:52, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

AVFC stats and "undisclosed"
You can never have too many Villa articles on your watchlist! ;) I used those articles to show that it was undisclosed and mainly to highlight the disparity in the figures: the Telegraph is a prime example, it quotes two different figures in the same article, figures that would affect his ranking. It is much safer to say undisclosed than to have a false figure in the table. That being said, I have never seen the Newcastle ones before; I will try and find a Villa one to back it up. Regards. Woody (talk) 15:52, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Bruce
Ta very much -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:28, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Bank Street
Thanks for the heads-up on that one. Nice little fact to have in there! – PeeJay 13:18, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Sunderland A.F.C. season 2007-08
Hi I've been working on Sunderland A.F.C. season 2007-08 and I have something to ask, do you think it would be appropriate to include the pre-season results. If so would I put them before the Premier League or after? Thank you. Sunderland06 (talk) 17:40, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Cheers mate. Sunderland06  (talk) 15:52, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Lawro spammer
I've reverted once more. Feel free to continue to do so, or if you feel unable to do so, shout at me again! All the best. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:07, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Curtis Woodhouse
Linking it to Sheffield United is probably the best option, I'd say. Wizardman 20:47, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Graphs
Hi Struway2, thanks for pointing out the mistake in the tier 4 numbers, I'll fix them when I get a moment. I also need to think about how I should show the third division when it was split into North and South in 1921 until 1958. Any suggestions would be appreciated. --Payo (talk) 09:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I've managed to avoid the D3 S/N issue so far by mostly making graphs for Nothern clubs. I guess one option would be to adapt each graph according to whether the club would have been in the N or the S league. Shouldn't be too hard to work something out. --Payo (talk) 10:19, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

1956 FA Cup Final
Thanks for the note - unfortunately, neither of my FA Cup books can add anything significant to the article, although the Collett book does say that at the end of the 1955 final, Manchester City "captain Roy Paul vowed that his side would return the following year and win the trophy - and they did." Not much help really - sorry. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 18:02, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry - page 47. The full reference would be Cheers --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 18:08, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Player of the month
Your message ''Hi, when you update footballers' articles with them having won Premier League Player of the Month, please would you also add a source for them having done so. thanks''
 * The relevant premier league site page is currently under construction. I intend to add the sources then. As you know Premier League Player of the Month is unsourced and untagged. A more consistent approcah would be to tag that site if you feel there is a problem migrating the information. Lucian Sunday (talk) 22:39, 16 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Hiya I confirm that I will not migrate any further Info as the article is tagged. There are other sources. (I do not think this is a mirror but then again). I personally intended to wait and use Premier Official site, but that is only my preference. Lucian Sunday (talk) 08:30, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Geoff Horsfield
Here are the stats for his early career:

Halifax Town 	 1998-1999  	  	  10  	  7 Halifax Town 	1997-1998 		40 	30 Halifax Town 	1996-1997 		24 	9 Witton Albion 	1995-1996 		- 	4 Guiseley 	1995-1996 		- 	2 Guiseley 	1994-1995 		- 	22 Halifax Town 	1993-1994 		9 	0 Scarborough 	1993-1994 		6 	0 Scarborough 	1992-1993 		6 	1

Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 15:05, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The dashes do indeed represent appearances, but are unknown, and I'm pretty sure they'll only be for the league. It states his Witton Albion career for the 1995-96 season durated from "1 August 1995 - 28 May 1996", while it says his Guiseley career for the 1995-96 season also durated from "1 August 1995 - 28 May 1996", which obviously makes no sense, so I'm unsure. Mattythewhite (talk) 15:22, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Horsfield
Hi there. I notice this interview suggests he was at Witton for five months. Hope this helps. Peanut4 (talk) 15:31, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * No worries. I had wondered exactly what the five months referred to myself, and once you add to that the uncertainty of the October date, then I agree it's best to be safe at this stage. Peanut4 (talk) 15:53, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Martin Taylor
The sentence (especially the "believed to be Croatian journalists" part; the identity of these people is not mentioned in the news article as a "belief") sounded to me as if some unknown men, probably football fans, disguised as Croatian journalists and tried to get to Taylor's car, probably with an intention of attacking. There is no need to leave things looking gray when everything is black and white in the cited news article. Admiral Norton (talk) 14:52, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Whoops Droggy Drog
Thanks for informing me so quickly. I blame the writer as some parts of his article are just paraphrases of the wiki article. Read my reply at the talk page. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 11:50, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

WALTER PANDIANI
Hi there STRUWAY, VASCO here,

Regarding this URUGUAYAN footballer article, i again thank you for completing the piece with internet REFERENCES and, regarding my comments, they were made out of misunderstanding of some WIKIPEDIA rules, nothing intentional, sorry 4 any incovenience.

From PORTUGAL, have a nice week, good teamwork,

VASCO AMARAL - --217.129.67.28 (talk) 17:08, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Freddie Sears
I can't help but feel that this reversion of yours was a little headstrong. ;) - Dudesleeper /  Talk 17:19, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Tony Adans
put on setanta sports news mate. Zacitty (talk) 10:50, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: Jared Wilson
Thanks for letting me know. I will link in the page to the season review, if no one else has already done it! Sgtippin (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 12:18, 29 October 2008 (UTC).

Proposed deletion of Mikey Gray
The player played in the Polish First Division, which is a professional league, I will add more info I have on this player. But will also include the info of the league in the profile to prevent this from happening again. Thanks --Footballgy (talk) 15:29, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Billy Morgan
It's not my article, but I don't see why not. Go right ahead. – PeeJay 13:38, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * By the way, if you have any info you can add to the Newton Heath player's article, including his birth date, that'd be useful. – PeeJay 13:39, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Garry O'Connor by 83.104.51.181 (talk) 18:12, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
Can you please stop using a tabloid newspaper especially a local rag like the 'Birmingham Mail' for vital information, please? Sources such as www.bcfc.com would be more apt to use. Say you ran a company that's just been taken over and the company had a website would you think that would be more accurate than say the local newspaper picking up on the same story. Go to the head honcho for news not the shiatsu. END.

However they do keep player profiles for more than 12 months so it is satisfactory to use the direct source and not a biased source the Mail in most people's opinions usually is filed with Aston Villa rubbish. In fact they started a pentition to keep Gareth Barry at the club they did not do this for Pennant or Upson or Forsell. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.104.51.181 (talk) 11:03, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

The Horse
I've made a few improvements to the Geoff Horsfield article and wondered if you may be able to add anything, particularly about his time at Blues? Thanks. --Jameboy (talk) 22:00, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That sounds great and cheers for adding the photo. Yes, I had some slight doubts about Matthews (2005) in Horsfield's case and had intended to look for other sources to either confirm or refute it. My list of errata and "doubts" from the Matthews book is growing, and while it is probably small and almost insignificant in comparison with the large and impressive body of work he has produced, I still intend to contact him about it at some point, in the hope that any future editions can be improved. --Jameboy (talk) 23:54, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Good find, I've added that club (whose initials are WBAFC...) to the infobox. I'll pretend I didn't see about him being an admirer of Bert from Sesame Street McCarthy. The article is really coming along now, it's just a shame that there is no single source listing all his clubs and stats - or maybe there is one but we haven't found it yet. --Jameboy (talk) 17:57, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You've been doing a cracking job on the article - it has really come on in leaps and bounds over the last week. I'll see if the Albion section can be expanded any more. --Jameboy (talk) 23:34, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the MoS hint. Let me see if I have this right: "Horsfield scored just 3 goals in 29 league appearances" (comparative) but "It was the first of three goals he scored during January 2004" (no comparative). Does that seem OK? I've expanded the Albion bit - I don't think there's too much more to be said here as he was at the club for just a couple of years. As an attendee of that Portsmouth game in May 2005, there's no way I can write about it in neutral tones, but I tried. I've removed the "Style of play" section that I added earlier - I originally intended to have a whole section around his style of play, but I think we already have plenty of material throughout the article that gives the reader an impression of what sort of player he was. However the Matthews quote that I dropped did seem to sum up the player quite well, so I re-used it in the lead. See what you think. --Jameboy (talk) 13:13, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Van Basten, lol. The "old-fashioned centre forward" would be an ideal quote to put in, excellent. I've added a rudimentary honours section - please add anything I may have missed or feel free to play around with the formatting. Not sure whether to add a full stats section as some other articles have, given that we don't have the full and complete figures. --Jameboy (talk) 17:14, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I've not added much to Horsfield's article for a while, and probably don't have much more to contribute in any case. Have you got much more to add or do you think it is worth putting it up for peer review soon? It must be close to GA standard now. Cheers. --Jameboy (talk) 22:33, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Featured article candidates/1923 FA Cup Final
All comments now addressed, hopefully to your satisfaction :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:10, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Imitation, flattery, etc :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:04, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Cheers for your support! I look forward to seeing the 1956 version at FAC very soon -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:41, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Nearly...
I'm halfway back. While I have a shiny new ISP, I'm in the middle of a block of long shifts at work, so it'll be a couple of days before I can give it my full attention. Oldelpaso (talk) 16:25, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I've just splashed out on a book "Manchester Cup Kings 1956", so when that arrives I should have plenty more to add. Oldelpaso (talk) 12:26, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Your efforts have been exceptional, the Birmingham parts are truly comprehensive now, giving me plenty to do to catch up! I intended to go to the archives at Manchester Central Library yesterday after going to Eastlands to pick up my ticket for Bolton away, but didn't have time. I'll be in Manchester city centre on Monday, maybe I'll have time then. I see ChrisTheDude has beaten us to FAC, I shall have to comment on that at some point. Oldelpaso (talk) 13:13, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Works for me. Oldelpaso (talk) 20:47, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * We've got to be getting close now. I did my own forays into the world of microfilm on Monday, and today that book arrived, so most gaps have been filled. I found nothing in the Evening News or Evening Chronicle archives about the colours though. Cup Kings simply states "As both teams normal colours were blue, both sides had to change". Oldelpaso (talk) 11:15, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * And as I submit that, I get the "new messages" bar from you :) I'm not always the most thorough with citation formatting (I figure the citation itself is the important part), I'm not too sure. While the exact page number is the next to back page +1, I'm not about to trawl through the microfilm again for that.Oldelpaso (talk) 11:20, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

When do you think we should take it to FAC? Once the 1923 nom is over (and we've heeded all advice therein)? Oldelpaso (talk) 11:21, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I've seen such remarks attributed to Paul in a number of places, but not one of them gives a direct quote. It stems from a public promise by Sam Cowan after the 1933 final that City would return in 1934 (they did), but without a direct quote I'm not sure whether Paul actually said it, or whether it was falsely attributed because it made good copy. There's one thing which Paul did definitely say which I've remembered about. From the Trautmann biography: "Paul led his team into the tunnel and they lined up with the Birmingham players. He put the fear of God into everyone, including the terrified opponents, by suddenly stopping, holding up his fist and shouting "If we don't fucking win, you'll get some of this."" In two minds as to whether it is worthing including. Perhaps alluded to, with the full quote in a footnote.


 * I'll revisit the lead. Oldelpaso (talk) 10:07, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I've reached the point where I've read the article too many times to view the prose objectively, but there's nothing glaringly obvious. Time to bite the bullet and nominate. Oldelpaso (talk) 11:00, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Now live: Featured article candidates/1956 FA Cup Final. Oldelpaso (talk) 11:19, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Horsfield PR
I've made the most minor of change. Otherwise it looks spot on. Peanut4 (talk) 16:49, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I've just added some thoughts on the PR page about a "style of play" section. There is some info in the lead, and quotes from Keegan, Tigana and Steve Bruce to start one off. Peanut4 (talk) 17:21, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

'56
Yes, still got the book out of the library, I will check the page number that gives the details for 1956 when I'm at home this evening and let you know. I did have a look through it for anything useful that could be added to your article in general but didn't really find anything that wasn't already covered. I'll pop over to the FAC myself later...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:07, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It's on page 82. So the full ref would be   Hope this helps -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:02, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Just to confirm, that page gives the full team line-ups, scorers, referee (including his hometown) and the attendance. It doesn't specifically outline the kits, but I don't know how you'd ref those little images anyway...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:27, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Fulham, apparently -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:51, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * No problem, it's well deserving of FA status IMO. Is there anything else you still need me to address on the FA Cup winners list......? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:36, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

John Bostock
Now can you care to remove all those accessdates as that information is floor. Thanks Govvy (talk) 19:31, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

O ye and if you are using accessdates, don't use the American format. Govvy (talk) 19:34, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I feel accessdate should be removed because it only indicates when the person that added that ref accessed it. It has no relivences to the actual citation or article nor are those accessdates you added correct as is the case because someone else added those refs. That is why it should be an obsolete option. Govvy (talk) 22:52, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

That is what the normal date stamp is for... :/ Govvy (talk) 23:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Still looks ugly what you did! :( And you don't have to add accessdates! :/ Night night! Govvy (talk) 23:21, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

1956 FAC
Your thoughts mirror mine. We already mention Trautmann's neck in the lead, and that's the one thing people outside Manchester and Birmingham remember. Oldelpaso (talk) 21:26, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Horse again
Yes, go for it. I fully expect any further PR comments to be minor issues, and GAs can sometimes take a while to get reviewed so we may as well nominate it now and let the PR wind down. I'm surprised there was no edit conflict as I also linked "Championship" after you already had! --Jameboy (talk) 16:38, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure, as I've never closed one manually, I always just waited for a bot to do it after so many days inactivity. I can't see anything in WP:PR or WP:GA that requires the PR to be closed after GA nom, but if you wish to close it now, go ahead. It may be worth keeping it open for (say) a further week though, in case any more comments come up. --Jameboy (talk) 17:07, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess the only issue may be stability. We don't want to be applying loads of major changes to the article while the GA reviewer is looking at it. Having said that, the last GA I put forward took a month to get reviewed, and the PR should be long closed by then, so another week probably wouldn't hurt. --Jameboy (talk) 17:11, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Hearty congratulations........
.........on the FAC for the 56 Final. Definitely deserved! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:24, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

It has certainly been a pleasure to work with you on the article. Its just a shame there aren't too many other potential crossover articles for our clubs. Oldelpaso (talk) 09:11, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Getting Francis out of the door was doing you a big favour if you ask me. A Birmingham supporting friend sat next to me in the home end during that match, which was... interesting. Francis himself spent a typically injury-hit season with us, might add a quick paragraph there at some point. Looking through the Birmingham players category most of the players to have played for both clubs aren't the most distinguished: Jamie Pollock, Scott Hiley et al. Oldelpaso (talk) 09:36, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Steve Bruce
It is 'fairly' typical for 'Managerial statistics' sections to have a 'Nat' row and accompanying flagicons for each managed side. Was the rationale for removal that all managed sides are English and thus do not need to be distinguished ? Or something else.

Aaron carass (talk) 20:51, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

List of English cricket and football players
In the interests of disambiguation, should this page be renamed List of English association football and cricket players? Jevansen (talk) 10:43, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for getting back to me, I just wasn't sure if WP Football had any policies in place regarding this. I'm happy for the title to remain as it is and like you, see football as being unambiguous in this case. Cheers. Jevansen (talk) 12:17, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Re:Graham Abel
Those were repeated Wikilinks that already appear in the article previously. Ṝ ed  M arkV iolinist Drop me a line 17:41, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the pointer. Cheers, Ṝ ed  M arkV iolinist Drop me a line 18:09, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Jack Wilcox
My Saints books say that he went from Dudley to Villa, and this is supported by www.allfootballers.com and the Aston Villa player database, so I guess the reference to Halesowen is a bit dubious. I added a not on the talk page about the discrepancy in Christian names. Cheers. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 19:17, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Peer review
Could you do me a massive favour and peer review Sunderland A.F.C. if you have any time. As its been a week without any human comments. I hope this peer review can help get the article closer to FA class. Thank you. Sunderland06 (talk) 03:36, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That's fine, cheers. Sunderland06  (talk) 15:29, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Cheers for the peer review, I'll get round to it as soon as possible. Cheers. Sunderland06  (talk) 15:58, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok I've done what I can from the peer review, I'll have a look in my book about the kit. Could you possibly have a little look at the PR and respond to my queries. Thanks. Sunderland06  (talk) 19:45, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clearing that stuff up. Sunderland06  (talk) 22:22, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Right, I've went through my book and expanded the earlier years of the club, there should be a better balance now. Would you mind looking back through the history at what I just added and see if there's anything that can be improved upon. Sunderland06 (talk) 21:22, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Cheers a lot, and I've just came home to find Keano has left. :) Maybe we can show our true potential in the Premier League now. Sunderland06  (talk) 12:12, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

test edit/vandalism boilerplate
Thank you for leaving a comment at User talk:128.240.229.7. Unfortunately this IP belongs to one of a series of proxy servers which are the sole means of accessing the web whilst on campus at Newcastle University. As such it is shared by approximately 25,000 people (and there are 6 such proxy servers in total). There is nearly zero chance that the message you have taken the time to leave will ever be read by the person who made the edit you are complaining about. -- 128.240.229.7 (talk) 17:14, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi, and thanks for taking an interest. I don't expect the editor concerned to read the message, or to take any notice if they do. However, if vandalism persists from any particular IP, the admins can and do impose IP blocks, and in extremis range blocks, in the hope that the inconvenience caused by restricting access might poke the vandals' colleagues or IP owners with a sufficiently sharp stick for them to do something about it from their end. I do agree that leaving templated messages for vandals is a waste of time, but not as much as the time wasted finding and clearing up the mess they make. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 19:15, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Gunnar Halle
Ah. Thanks for pointing that out. I simply reverted it since there was no source and nothing in the text to back the change up. Peanut4 (talk) 14:44, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * No worries. I've made an effort to clean it up, and properly cite the info. Peanut4 (talk) 15:04, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

The Horse
Cheers and well done yourself, it has been a very successful collaboration I think. Sorry I wasn't able to pitch in with the GA review but I'm just catching up after being off-colour and off-wiki for a couple of days. It seems that there weren't many issues to fix in any case. I've got a few different things I'd like to work on next, but 1931 FA Cup Final may be of interest to you. I don't have much material to go on as yet but I plan to at least create articles for all the redlinks (your players have all been done I noticed!) and take it from there. --Jameboy (talk) 20:51, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the tip. I'm also an "ex-pat" as it were, but I pop back occasionally so I'll try the big concrete library next time I'm down. --Jameboy (talk) 13:03, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The '31 line-ups definitely look better with the format you applied btw. I think the smaller, detailed style works better with more recent matches, where there are loads of substitutions and yellow cards etc. --Jameboy (talk) 13:16, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 2007 UEFA Champions League Final is Featured and uses the smaller format, so I'm surprised it hasn't been challenged. Anyway, I'm probably not as familiar with the MoS as I could be - maybe some light reading over Christmas. --Jameboy (talk) 23:25, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Jerry Gill
I really liked the Gill GA; despite being a lower division player his career and story is an interesting one. I'm amazed you were able to dig up so many references! Keep up the good work. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 19:31, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Bert Crossthwaite
Mind double-checking the spelling of his surname in your source? In mine it's Crosswaithe. Weird how he has only just appeared in Category:Blackpool F.C. players when you created his article a month ago... - Dudesleeper /  Talk 15:59, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Imperial Triple Crown jewels
Thank you for contributions to the project, Great work, especially on List of Birmingham City F.C. players - quite a useful list. May you wear the crowns well. Cirt (talk) 01:03, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Taunton Town
Hi Struway2, thanks for the comments! Fair enough about Taunton Town - I think I may have inadvertently linked some other defunct clubs to the reborn versions in other FA Cup articles, but I can't remember which ones. I'm sure some eagle-eyed thing will spot them eventually. I'll see if I've made any obvious mistakes. El Pollo Diablo (Talk) 14:30, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Autoblock?????
((unblock-auto|1=194.72.9.25|2=Autoblocked because your IP address was recently used by "Ashley kennedy3". The reason given for Ashley kennedy3's block is: "Edit warring: 3RR at Banias".|3=Elonka|4=1248271))
 * Sorry for the inconvenience; you should be able to edit in a moment, if not already. – Luna Santin  (talk) 08:53, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * thanks, Struway2 (talk) 09:05, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Player Appearances
Show me the policy and I will adhere. As far as I am concerned when the player is named on the team sheet released to the press then, barring the 0.0001% chance that he will injure himself in the tunnel, he is playing. The game kicks off at 15:00 and that is when his playing time starts. And it is easily reverted anyway. Cheers. (Quentin X (talk) 15:22, 13 December 2008 (UTC))
 * It must be your malign influence, I've been to football games for 20 years and have seen one player not come out after the warm up.....Anyway, WP:Verifiability states at the top whether readers are able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source which I believe BBC Sport is. I do, however, plead over eagerness.. ;-) (Quentin X (talk) 15:54, 13 December 2008 (UTC))

Hungarian descent
Why am I not allowed to categorise him as a Hungarian when his middle name is Ferenc and his last name is Deverdics Spiderone (talk) 18:14, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Dean Gerken
Hi, thanks for your comment. I did not revert back to a previous version of the Gerken page, I did just edit the height from 6'0" to 6'4" with my last edit. He is my cousin, hence the reason why I want to make sure it's accurate. I cannot reference a website, the only reference I could provide would be a photo of him standing next to a tape measure, which is ridiculous :). If the height of 6'4" cannot remain without a reference, then I guess it can be deleted until CUFC sort their site out, but I ask that you do not put it back to 6'0" as this is not accurate.  Thanks a lot. 68.1.159.197 (talk) 10:20, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

George Allen (footballer)
Hi there, 29 January was the only date on the article until the infobox was added with the other date. I found this reference Torquay United hall of fame which backed up the original date. Do you have anything for the 23 January date that would raise doubt over this? noq (talk) 10:02, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Kayne McLaggon
Thanks for correcting my typos. Doh! - Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 12:59, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

u20
Heya, I've been getting the stats from FIFA's website. I can't remember whose page I saw first, but it linked to the 1997 FIFA World Youth Championship, and on there it lists all the games with the match sources. Here's an example. Doberman Pharaoh (talk) 21:48, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That's right, though according to the England U20 page they haven't played a game in 3 years (that might be competitive IIRC), so you're not missing out on much. Doberman Pharaoh (talk) 22:42, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

L.V. Lodge
It's mentioned here, on the same website which I cited but a different page. I cited the wrong one .... will fix it now. Cheers Jevansen (talk) 11:24, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Under-soil heating
It sounds like you have a good deal more reason to be miffed than "enraged" of Solihull, who would probably not have had to leave home! A certain other team just up the road does have under-soil heating - you could have gone to watch them instead :-) I thought that the lack of under-soil heating might be worth mentioning in the St Andrew's article though, as it would seem to be quite unusual for a team that has played several seasons in the Prem. Then again, how would we know exactly which grounds do have it? That info might be difficult to source. --Jameboy (talk) 17:46, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Eddy Brown‎
Hi - I see that you have reverted most of the changes that I made to the references. My aim was to introduce consistency with both the author name and dating style.

I personally prefer to see an author referred to in the format "first name-surname", rather than surname first - it seems more logical and reads properly; after all, we don't refer to "Brown, Eddy" as the article heading. As the template allows either format, I altered the references to the format I prefer.

As I always do when I'm unsure on these matters I try to refer to Featured Articles. The references on Steve Bruce are inconsistent; the first says "Bruce, Steve" and the second "Ian Parkes" and there seems to be an even mixture of both styles. Thierry Henry is fairly consistent, with most references using the surname first format, although there are a few in the "first name-surname" format. So the featured articles are no help!

Likewise, I changed the dates in the references so that all were in the dd mmmm yyyy format. Again, the two featured articles are inconsistent in this regard, with the Steve Bruce article using either - the second reference uses both, with yyyy-mm-dd for the article date and dd mmmm yyyy for the retrieval date - whereas the Thierry Henry article is consistent with dd mmmm yyyy.

As with most things on WP, there is more than one way of doing things and no two editors will agree on which is right, so I will defer to you on this point, although I would appreciate your thoughts on this matter.

Best wishes. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 12:55, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Ryan Burge
The "Ryan Burge moves on" article doesn't actually mention a non-contract, but it does heavily imply it. It mentions he had a "contract review" pencilled in for the end of the December, if he was contracted, he wouldn't have had a review so shortly after signing, much more likely this is a review of whether to offer him a contract based on his performance while under non-contract. Also players who have their contract cancelled are usually given some form of compensation, which is not mentioned in the article, and BFC very rarely cancel contracts due to financial constraints. Cg29692 (talk) 16:50, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I've changed it so it says "short-term" instead of "non-contract", which removes any worries about verifiability etc. Thanks for pointing this out to me. Cg29692 (talk) 17:20, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Harry Haynes
Are you able to add anything to this article about his brief career at Small Heath? Cheers   Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 16:04, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Taiwo Atieno
I've been keeping an eye on this per your ANI report, but it would be useful if you get the chance to look over the latest changes to the article. Having been given a final warning, User:Jimunder has expanded the article content and apparently attempted to source it, but a number of changes have been made to the pre-existing content as well. Knowing next to nothing about football (having grown up with Coventry City), I'd appreciate your opinion as to whether this constitutes further disruption of the sort that led to your report, or if it looks like a genuine good-faith attempt to improve the article. Regards, EyeSerene talk 15:19, 13 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your assistance - I've reverted the changes made to sourced material and the unsourced POV-ish additions (which was most of it), and restored the sourced assertion re playing for Kenya. Again I'd appreciate your oversight just to make sure I haven't taken out anything unfairly. Best, EyeSerene talk 19:23, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Shaun Reay
Thanks for your help - sorry about length of time to reply I haven't been on in a while, not patronising at all. I am hoping to get something created for all Blyth Spartans squad members, but now know how time consuming it can be to get this updated. Like you say I have only completed two articles and hope to improve as I go on. If you spot anything else I may do in the future please let me know. Stevie Pyledriver (Stevie Pyledriver) 18:10, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Re: Image opinion
I have sent a request via e-mail. Please check your inbox. Jappalang (talk) 22:44, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

1931 and all that
Good work, the article is now well underway. I actually went to the library before Christmas and had a browse of the The Birmingham Post archives (on microfiche) from around the time of the final. I've taken copies of the following and will start adding info from these soon-ish. I thought you might be interested in case you want to look at the articles concerned:

The Birmingham Post
 * Thur 23 April 1931, pp. 9–10
 * Fri 24 April 1931, pp. 7–8
 * Sat 25 April 1931, p. 10
 * Mon 27 April 1931, p. 6, p. 8, p. 14
 * Tue 28 April 1931, p. 10
 * Wed 29 April 1931, p. 9
 * Fri 1 May 1931, p. ?
 * Sat 2 May 1931, p. 10
 * Mon 4 May 1931, p. 6

Some of the later ones relate to Albion's final two league games (both won to win promotion), so may be of less interest to you. I'd be quite interested to read The Times match reports of the Albion games from earlier rounds like those you have referenced for Birmingham. - how do you get access to these? Cheers. --Jameboy (talk) 22:32, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks like you have some good ideas for additions to the article. I have some more stuff to add but probably won't be able to add any more until next week as I am on a wikibreak over the weekend. I may also have some images to add to the article - these should be free of any copyright issues as the final was over 70 years ago. --Jameboy (talk) 22:31, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Not really done any match reports but I'll have a go. I only have the Birmingham Post match report, plus a few bits and pieces from my books. I'll try to add some stuff today or tomorrow. I guess we have to make the report quite detailed so that it isn't overshadowed by the fairly extensive coverage of the earlier rounds. Are you able to get hold of the Times match report for the final? The B'ham Post is a reasonable source (and having two Midland teams should in theory reduce any regional bias) but having a national paper's report as well should give us a bit more info to go on. --Jameboy (talk) 13:07, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you have any reliable sources for the attendance at the final? All my WBA books say 90,368 but soccerbase and other online sources all seem to have 92,406. --Jameboy (talk) 01:31, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I have the Movietone footage of the goals on the Full Throstle DVD. Based purely on positioning, I would guess that the player who deflected the ball into Richardson's path was Birmingham's right full back. He seems to have dark, slicked back hair - it's too grainy to tell much else. --Jameboy (talk) 19:21, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Bob Fairman
Sorry, but I've drawn a complete blank on this one - my reference books list every player who has played in the Southampton first team or reserves, including all the minor competitions they entered during the Southern League era, and he's not mentioned any where, so I guess he never got near the first team. Cheers. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 18:20, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Request
Hi, after my recent peer review of History of Sunderland A.F.C. which was archived with a lack of comments, I'd like to ask if you could give it a thorough run through in a peer review style. If you like, these comments could my places in your, or my sandbox. I hope to eventually get it to FAC, but a good peer review would go a long way to helping. Cheers. Sunderland06 (talk) 13:15, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Stephen Carr
Here is another reference (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/mcleish-hopes-returning-carr-will-steer-brum-promotion-bid-1638328.html), please stop undoing all of my referenced contributions - thanks. My previous revision also had a reference from a Birmingham newspaper. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.94.192.200 (talk) 13:42, 20 February 2009

Franck Ribery

 * Can you explain to me what is the meaning of excessive "referencing" ? — Arteyu ?  Blame it on me !  10:56, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh I do not know that it was wrong. Thanks anyway — Arteyu ?  Blame it on me !  16:32, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

List of Oxford United Players Peer Review
Hi. The final point i haven't yet addressed, the point on players such as judge not being referenced after 1989, is causing a bit of a problem. Apart from looking at the players section on Rage Online, i can't find any sources which state the appearance details. Neil Brown's Site could be used for the league games, but obviously this wouldn't cover the other comps. What should i do? Eddie6705 (talk) 18:09, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the help. I have dropped a line at User:Mattythewhite's talk page about the book and whether it covers all comps. Apart from that and the red links which i will try and create articles for soon, do you think the article is good enough for FLC? Eddie6705 (talk) 12:50, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Just to let you know, User:Daemonic Kangaroo has added refs from allfootballers.com. Eddie6705 (talk) 17:20, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

List of Scotland international footballers FLC
Hi there

As this FLC appears to have stagnated a bit, and the original nominator seems to have stopped addressing comments, I have decided to step in, and have rectified what I perceived to be all the outstanding queries. I was wondering if you would be prepared to drop by and re-appraise it....?

Cheers! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:09, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * B*ll*cks, if I'd noticed that, I'd not have started working on it....... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:23, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * True enough. I'll wait till someone closes the original FLC and then I'll start a new one...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:27, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Black people
Surely if someone is black it is obvious. eg. Emile Heskey, there is no need to reference it as it's only common sense really and you only need to look at a picture of him. In the case of Simon Poulsen he is a black Danish footballer. His father is Danish and his mother is of some African descent therefore he qualifies for the category. Please justify why you removed the category. Spiderone (talk) 16:22, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Also would it be OK to add Beckford as a mixed man as I've seen pictures of his parents and one is clearly caucasian and the other black. Surely that can be used instead of a reference. Spiderone (talk) 16:27, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * So if there wasn't a source stating that Barack Obama was of mixed race then we couldn't categorise him as such? Seems strange to me. Spiderone (talk) 10:46, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Bill Fraser (footballer)
Thanks for the note - unfortunately, my reference books say nothing about his career after 1935 when he became coach at Salisbury. As you've no doubt already spotted, he is the only "Fraser" to have played first-team football at Northampton. My guess is that he probably was the father of Cammie Fraser, but that's not much help. Sorry. (All I can suggest is that a note is put on one or both of the articles' talk pages, saying that Bill Fraser was possibly Cammie's father.) Cheers. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 18:45, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Jack or John Jones
The Jack Jones I referred to is definitely always called Jack in the sources I have. I'm at work at the moment, but when I get home this evening I'll have a look in my books to confirm whether or not they are the same person. &mdash; Gasheadsteve Talk to me 09:16, 12 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The list of former Bristol Rovers players at http://bristolrovers.wikia.com/wiki/Players_(A-M)#J seems to indicate that they are the same person, but I'll confirm it later. &mdash; Gasheadsteve Talk to me 09:23, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I've checked in my books, and they are definitely the same person. In the book I'm using he is listed as John Thomas "Jack" Jones in the statistics section, and as Jack Jones in all other mentions of him. If you need a reference for him being known as Jack, you can use: &mdash; Gasheadsteve Talk to me 17:36, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Good work on the article! I think that the infobox should have all first team league appearances, even if teams played in more than one league concurrently. Unfortunately I only have appearance data for Bristol Rovers players in the Southern League, not in the Western or Birmingham & District leagues, which is where they played when he first joined the club. &mdash; Gasheadsteve Talk to me 16:31, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Mauro Zàrate
Belive me, the old date was wrong. Look here: http://www.radiosei.it/online/?p=854, even if I guess you can't understand. The article says that the date "18 March" was an old mistake by the almanacs.-- A ndrea 93  (msg) 16:20, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

RE: thehelpfulbot adding References section in middle of External links
Hi there,

I think that this was because the External link is in the template of * - which means that the bot fairly thinks that it is wiki code - so a reference instead of an External link. You can swap it back to the correct way now if you wish! :)

Hope this helps and sorry for the inconvenience,

The Helpful  One  17:34, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

RE: Endashes in football (soccer) seasons and scorelines
Most of the articles I edited (except for one) are supposedly watchlisted by some users, so I'm hoping that for future situations, the experienced editors will fix that problem. Thanks for telling me this, or else I may have done this to too many articles, but like I said, most of the ones I edited were watchlisted by some users. --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 22:34, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Re:Reverts
Hello,. . You can [ remove this notice] at any time by removing the Talkback or Tb template.  - down  load  |   sign!  21:14, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Benjamin Howard Baker
Are you an administrator? If not can you put me in touch with one who can try to resolve a dispute I'm having with another user regarding the correct name of Benjamin Howard Baker. I'll expand more if you wish. Cheers. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 15:48, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

FLC comments
Just to let you know that I believe I have addressed all your comments at Featured list candidates/List of BBC Sports Personality of the Year awards/archive1. If you have any more please let me know. If you have the page watchlisted, then I apologise as I am not trying to badger you for a response – this was just meant to be a reminder incase you didn't know. Rambo's  <font color="#FF4500">Revenge  <font color="#FFA500">(How am I doing?)   15:09, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Per your comments at FLC, I can't see that so could you do me a screen shot please. <font color="#DC143C">Rambo's  <font color="#FF4500">Revenge  <font color="#FFA500">(How am I doing?)   15:52, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, turns out it is a Firefox thing. It works fine for me (in multiple resolutions in the brower I use – IE) but it is broken when I checked it in Firefox. I will work this in Firefox and see if I can fix it. <font color="#DC143C">Rambo's  <font color="#FF4500">Revenge  <font color="#FFA500">(How am I doing?)   15:56, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay I believe I have sorted this now, could you check please. <font color="#DC143C">Rambo's  <font color="#FF4500">Revenge  <font color="#FFA500">(How am I doing?)   16:02, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

If you have time, could you cap your comments here or add more if you are not still not satisfied. Thanks, <font color="#DC143C">Rambo's  <font color="#FF4500">Revenge  <font color="#FFA500">(How am I doing?)   12:06, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Lists of players
Funnily enough, I've been thinking much the same thing myself and was toying with the idea of splitting the Gills one into <>25 apps, like you say, to break it down any smaller than that would be silly. I haven't yet checked to see what size the two resultant lists would be...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:23, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * BTW even the Port Vale one is quite a way off making it into the 500 biggest WP pages.... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:33, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

RE: Gateshead F.C. player stats
I have used http://www.freewebs.com/gfcstats/ for stats for several former players. For current players I just add appearances & goals after each game. As for Terry Hibbitt, that website has him down as playing from 1981/82 - 1986/87 and have some info showing that he definately played during the 1983/84 & 1986/87 seasons (Currently there is no way of working out just league appearances and goals, only that he made 130 appearances and scored 7 goals in league & cup). Jcarls1 (talk) 09:07, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Tom White (English footballer)
I'm somewhat confused by the dates of birth & death - I guess the dates in the lead (& category) are wrong and the infobox is correct. I'll get back to you on Charlie Bosbury. Cheers. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 16:01, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Charlie Bosbury is not mentioned in any of my Saints' reference books - the team photo for 1921-22 includes several reserve team players, but not Bosbury. Sorry I can't help more.   --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 18:07, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

It seems that the England and Everton footballer was known as Tommy White. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 18:28, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Walter Bunch
Hi, I've made some additions to his page; it was indeed the same player listed as Wilbert, that's his middle name. However, my sources give no mention of him appearing at Bristol Rovers. Wolvesweb (talk) 13:54, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I can confirm that there was a W. Bunch that played for Eastville Rovers at this time. I don't have the dates of him joining or leaving the club, but he scored against Kidderminster Harriers in the Birmingham & District League on 23 March 1898 and played in the Gloucestershire Cup final on 26 February 1898. &mdash; Gasheadsteve Talk to me 17:39, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, your idea of him playing for Bristol R meantime sounds most probable; he made his last Wolves appearance in October 1896, so had two-and-a-half seasons to fill before he departed for Walsall. Wolvesweb (talk) 00:29, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Taiwo Atieno
I notice you had a question about him in another persons discussion wall. The answer is that by FIFA regulations a player cannot play in more than three different clubs in a year. Atieno just got transferred three different times so he cant change teams until next year. And no its not a common accurense in US soccer for such rapid transfers of one player to happen so fast. Automotivado (talk) 05:18, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

How you going about it?
I was just wondering if there was a logic behind the order in which your creating the player articles for Birmingham City?

Water torture: "the desire for the human brain to make a pattern of the timing between the drops will also eventually cause insanity to set in"

As I read your articles I try to form a pattern. So is there a pattern? lol--EchetusXe (talk) 22:43, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Tony Blake
I'll see what I can turn up. Presumably his place of birth should be Cofton Hackett, which is a settlement rather than a hill.....unless he was actually born on the side of the hill....stranger things have happened :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:11, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I've added what I've got. My books confirm that his birthplace was indeed Cofton Hackett.  Unfortunately I've no information any more up to date than 2001, so he may have died since then..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:55, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Taiwo Atieno II
Just noticed your question on my talkpage &mdash; somehow I'd missed it. My understanding of the WP convention is that if a player is rostered with a club for any significant period of time, that club is listed in his infobox even if the player makes no appearances for the club. If a player only passes through briefly and makes no appearances for the club, however, it isn't listed. As for the other question, I'd say it's fairly common in the US for a player to spend a very brief period on the roster of one club before being traded to another: for instance, in the 2006 expansion draft, expansion franchise Toronto FC snapped up a couple of guys simply for their "trade value" and then proceeded to deal them to other teams in exchange for players they actually wanted. I believe that in circumstances like this, we wouldn't list a Toronto FC tenure in a player's infobox. Overall, my understanding of the guidelines here is pretty shakey, to be honest.  Mr. IP  《 Defender of Open Editing 》 22:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, now I see why I missed your comment the first time...it wasn't even on my talkpage; I read it on someone else's talkpage (Broxton's) and got confused, haha. But anyway, yeah.  To give a good example of a "cup of coffee" MLS transaction, let me go back to Toronto's actions in the expansion draft of 2006.  In expansion drafts, clubs have the option to "protect" a certain number of players while leaving others "unprotected".  Unprotected players can be drafted at will by the expansion franchise (Toronto in this example), who can take one from each team.  One of the league's clubs, Real Salt Lake, made a strategic gamble that they could leave one of their key/totemic players, Jason Kreis (now their manager), unprotected.  They assumed that TFC would want nothing to do with an aging player whose oversized salary would be a big hit on their cap.  Seeing an opportunity, Mo Johnston at TFC took Kreis from RSL in the draft...not because he actually wanted Kreis, but because he knew that RSL still needed him.  By doing this, TFC was able to briefly hold Kreis hostage until RSL agreed to trade something else of value to get Kreis back.  So, Kreis was briefly a TFC player, but only because he became a pawn in larger machinations.  Because of instances like this, which are common enough throughout league history, we seem to have a consensus to disregard in-and-out situations during the offseason.  Mr. IP  《 Defender of Open Editing 》 23:08, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * And for a bit of further detail &mdash; not relevant to Atieno and USL players but important as a point of reference for many other US-based players &mdash; it should be noted that MLS has a single-entity corporate structure, and that technically all players are contracted by the league itself, not by individual teams. This means that all listings of player tenures with MLS teams are de facto in the first place, and that gives us a bit of leeway in striking out certain unimportant and very temporary tenures, as in the example given.  Hope that helps.  Mr. IP  《 Defender of Open Editing 》 23:08, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

John Higgins (cricketer)
Thanks for the football additions: very valuable and useful. I know very little about Higgins' footballing career, but do you think it was substantial enough to change the article's name to "John Higgins (cricketer and footballer)"? The obvious "John Higgins (sportsman)" is unsuitable because of the snooker player and at least one other footballer with the same name. If his football career was considerably less accomplished than his cricketing one, then we can leave the article where it is, I would think. Loganberry (Talk) 14:21, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Clarence Spencer
Born in 1909 he is most probably deceased, I'll leave you to change the article to reflect this if you wish. Maybe your book has his death (assuming he has died) recorded, I'm sure you will have something to add anyway. Not sure on whether that is the Bestwood in question either.--EchetusXe (talk) 14:45, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Edmund Harvey (footballer)
Hi. I've just looked in This states he indeed did play for York City, and for the whole of the 1926–27 season. This states that after joining Birmingham in January 1924, he had a spell with Sheffield Wednesday (but it doesn't say when he joined them) before eventually joining York in July 1926. He made his debut against Loughborough on 28 August 1926 and made his last appearance against Loughborough on 4 May 1927. 28 appearances and two goals in the Midland League. Hope this is of help. Thanks, Mattythewhite (talk) 12:07, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The Jarred & Windross book makes mention that "Hard-working winger Edmund arrived at York after failing to make an impact at Sheffield Wednesday." So I'm confused. Anyway, I've added a few extra details into the article. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:11, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

One of yours
Don't know if there's anything you can add to my sub-micro-stub on Archie Roe? Seems he was pretty much a non-entity with both clubs............. -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:42, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Blimey, I wasn't expecting that much expansion - nice one!! Hopefully putting Joyce's book on my Amazon "Wish List" ahead of my birthday in a few weeks' time will mean that I'll be able to significantly expand all the articles on pre-WW2 Gills players, as Triggs' book doesn't give much more than previous and next club for most of them.  I'll get right on that DYK as well..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:59, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I've changed it to "the following month"....... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:02, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Danny Cullip's image
Checking that he remembered to deodorise that morning....? ;-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:10, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Heads up
There were two footballers called Dennis Isherwood, who'd have thunk it?--EchetusXe (talk) 23:49, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Wark
Ooh, nice. Want to join TRM and myself in pushing it through to FA? --Dweller (talk) 10:08, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, I liked what you did. Yes, I'm aware of the problem - that's why I used the fat tag at the top, which I adapted specially. There's no real option without running foul of GFDL. --Dweller (talk) 10:50, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Better this way, I think. I've sorted out that user for now. He's heading for a vandal-only indef block though. --Dweller (talk) 12:15, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Watkins
Nothing to add beyond what you've already included, I'm afraid........ -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:00, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Arthur Hallworth
Stoke-on-Trent didn't exist until 1910, so perhaps he was born in the town of Stoke-upon-Trent?--EchetusXe (talk) 21:24, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Steve Smith
Hi, I'll see if Peanut4 know anything. Cheers, GiantSnowman 09:40, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

1963 League Cup Final
I think you should of left that Road to the Final like that because the 1996 League Cup Final has that format. Mr Hall of England (talk) 09:54, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Caretaker managers
Hi, I thought there was a discussion a while ago on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football about not including them. Perhaps each case should be judged on their own merit - I just thought one caretaker match wasn't worth including as a Birmingham manager. Perhaps different if someone is appointed for a few months at the end of the season or something...feel free to revert though. Heightwatcher (talk) 13:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Albert Bishop
Could you do me a favour? This article was originally at Alf Bishop, but www.allfootballers.com lists him as "Albert". Can you look in Michael Joyce's book and check - if possible could you add the appropriate reference? Cheers. -Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 16:01, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok, no problems.

Harry Bruce
I'm afraid none of my GFC books give any info on anything after his sale to Torquay in 1929 (other than the fact that he died in Durham on a completely unspecified date - how do they know where he died if they don't know when he died? Anyway, I digress......), so unfortunately I can be of no help with regards to his possible links with Scandinavia. Sorry about that...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:03, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Tony Hibbert
Why did you change our Tony Hibbert edit? We actually are the fan club and actually have got mugs, a fridge magnet and a signed Soccer Stars card by the man himself. Please can you make me an Bureaucrat btw? I want to press the red button that turns off Cluebot. He truly is the greatest soccer goal player never to score a soccer goal.

Also Doner Kebab Pot Noodles are very sub par. I also must let you know that I am the great Billy Bathface, and you will face my wrath.

ps- Keyboard Kat FTW!!!!11!1!11!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.137.187 (talk) 22:53, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Doug Pimbley
www.allfootballers.com says he died in 1988. Cheers. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 09:33, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

May 2009
Please do not add unreferenced or poorly referenced information, especially if controversial, to articles or any other page on Wikipedia about living persons. 83.104.51.181 (talk) 06:19, 16 May 2009 (UTC)|83.104.51.181 (talk) 06:19, 16 May 2009 (UTC)]] (talk) 07:17, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

You don't know when his contract finishes.

Mick Harford
It is done, friend. :)  Cliftonian  • talk  11:31, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Mr Okenla
Hi Struway - before I made the article I considered which name to have the article under; Foley has 1160 on Google, while Folorunso only has 141. As for his clubs before Birmingham, if you have books which mention Exeter, then use them! Cheers, GiantSnowman 12:17, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Good point. All forums arent reliable sources, they ARE a good indication of the common names of footballers. Plus, a number of player database websites use 'Foley' - All Footballers, Neil Brown, In The Mad Crowd, Tired & Weary...GiantSnowman 12:42, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Football League clubs
The category was untidy, and its bounds were unclear — it did not contain several clubs who obviously have played in the FL (for example Chelsea), lots who are presently in it were missing, and its purpose of containing every FL club ever was obviously not being fulfilled. Therefore I tidied it up a bit and reassigned it to contain the present FL clubs.

I would favour a category for current clubs and for former clubs personally — a category including every single one, including present Premier League clubs, would, in my eyes at least, be a bit too general and put a great deal out of context.

Looking back, I admit that I messed up a bit by marking it as minor and not discussing it first, and for that I apologise — but I hope you can understand my reasoning.

Thanks,  Cliftonian  • talk  08:58, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Of course. I've now read the WPF discussion. You may realise I'm not a member of the WP, so hadn't seen it. I'll get right on reverting everything. Cheers,  Cliftonian  • talk  09:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Every League club is now in the category. :) Cheers for putting me right.  Cliftonian  • talk  09:34, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Bert Powell
The club's official centenary history book gives his POB as Maidstone, but lists no DOB. The other books I have don't give any birth info at all for players from that era. So not much help really, I'm afraid........ -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

James McCrae
That's what I thought, but this site does describe him in terms of being a war guest...either way, I'll remove the 'war guest' sections from his aricle. Cheers, GiantSnowman 16:44, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Geoff Scott
Hugman also states 31 October 1956, on page 549. It also states he signed for them in April 1977, ruling out his other claim of playing in 1976. Either he has a poor memory or he's absolutely shameless. Unfortunately, it looks to be the latter. Mattythewhite (talk) 13:11, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Corinthian F.C.
The club name was definitely singular, so in the Infobox they should always be referred to as "Corinthian". In the text, I guess it depends on the context - IMHO, if you're listing the clubs Smithies played for, it should still be singular, but otherwise, I'm more relaxed. Referring to them as "the Corinthians" is OK, rather like referring to "the Saints" for my favourite team, but I'm not happy with just "Corinthians".

Does that make any sense - it's been a long day. Cheers. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 16:20, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

p.s. I'll see if I can add any detail to the Smithies article about his career with "the Corinthians" tonight or tomorrow.

Places of birth
Thanks for the link, makes it a bit clearer as to why now. --Jimbo[online] 13:19, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

BCFC Season Page
Hi Struway. I have started the BCFC season page for next season, and was wondering what I should include. As you seem to be 'Mr Birmingham City' around here, I guess you are the best person to ask. I thought I would just do the stats for the season, and not the 'season review' bit that is on the other pages. I think it would make it a bit easier to maintain. Do you agree, or does the article need it? Also, is it a good idea to put the flags of nationality next to players/clubs in the transfer boxs? I see on some they are there, and on others they are not. Thanks BCFC75 (talk) Hi again. I have tried to adapt the pages you give into next season's page, and just wanted to know what you think of what I have got so far. Also, I have tried (and failed) to make the kit for next season's away kit. Any tips on how to do this - I have read the instructions, but still have no clue. Thanks BCFC75 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:41, 4 June 2009 (UTC).

Re: Conyers Kirby
Nein — sadly, I fail on this occasion. He isn't even listed in my book. - Dudesleeper / <font color="Orange"> Talk 10:33, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Fred Roberts (footballer)
Apologies. I've cited Bailey. Cheers  Cliftonian  • talk  10:35, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Terry Lees
You sort it out. Hopefully you'll bring a fresh perspective to it, and by perspective I mean source.--EchetusXe (talk) 22:04, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This site confirms he spent the 81-82 season with Newport. Cheers, GiantSnowman 16:19, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * True, but common sense would tell you that he was there 81-82, seeing as he later played briefly in Hong Kong before signing with DS in 1982. Cheers, GiantSnowman 16:26, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Cofton Hackett
--Kudpung (talk) 04:39, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Wormull
The Eastbourne Herald and The Argus both stated he'd scored 6 goals in 37 games, these are including Sussex Senior Cup games. I have not put them back in though, rumours suggest he's going to be playing with Farnborough Town, with Jean Michel Sigere (again) EddersGTI (talk) 12:13, 12 June 2009 (UTC).


 * No worries mate, happy to help. EddersGTI (talk) 12:13, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Fact
I guess if you link the profile page and the news item about Wormull signing and make sure the dates are relevant then it'll be satisfactory. Although when a more established/in line source comes available - change it to that. --Jimbo[online] 09:22, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Lifetime tag
Thanks for putting me right on the fact that "Lifetime" shouldn't be used to replace Default sort etc. if they are already used. I thought it was a newer feature to replace Default sort, years born, died, etc. so I have been using it on dozens of articles. Needless to say, I'm suitably embarrassed now and will stop using it although I do think it is better and tidier e.g. one tag replacing up to three others. Grievous Angel (talk) 06:20, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Ian Bennett
Good point - I'd reffed the wrong article! Doh!! I gather he's signed the contract he's been offered but unfortunately it's probably not deemed newsworthy enough to get reported anywhere. I've amended accordingly. Bladeboy1889 (talk) 11:53, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Richie Moran
Who is being referred to in the dreadlocks conversation? MacKay or Macari? I'm guessing its MacKay but I was just curious.--EchetusXe (talk) 13:32, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Luton Town managers FLC
Sorted the stats, just a heads up. :) Cliftonian  ( Talk  •  Contibs ) 13:07, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you. :) Cliftonian  ( Talk  •  Contibs ) 13:34, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Fred Allen
Sorry for blowing off at you a bit there mate, it's just that when you can't hear the words and only see them sometimes you get the phrasing wrong. I'm sure you can understand it upset me after I'd put a lot of effort into finding something about an obscure late 19th century footballer to have it dismissed… oh well, no harm done. Thanks :) Cliftonian  ( Talk  •  Contibs ) 10:58, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

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 * Typical English! A couple nights in Belfast would sort you out! ;) Cliftonian  ( Talk  •  Contibs ) 08:09, 26 June 2009 (UTC)