User talk:StuRat/CECB

List cleanup?
I've attempted to look up a few of these (specifically ones with S-video shown as unknown) and found no info on the manufacturers' sites. Are they units no longer in production or ones that were never actually produced? Shifting ones no longer made to their own section would simplify things. Surely there must be more than just the Apex Digital DTV250 with S-Video, Analog passthrough and Smart Antenna. That's the only one Apex currently shows on their site, shift the other Apex units to a discontinued(?) list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bizzybody (talk • contribs) 20:50, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * They're on the NTIA approved list right? Half if not more of the boxes are still in limbo, meaning we haven't seen a production unit yet. There's been discussion on putting a field showing first availability date so we know which boxes are out in the market and which are still essentially vapor. It's a big mess, the gov't didn't have the authority to make sure the boxes were produced and bugfixed on time, the manufacturers wouldn't make the units until retailers ordered them, retailers wouldn't order them until the program started.. like I said a big mess. Nobody did what they were supposed to do to prepare for it.


 * Only a couple boxes have been discontinued. A couple have been decertified. Mostly they're just not out there yet though. --97.114.8.22 (talk) 21:32, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Target stores were selling a box called the RCA DTA80999.150.210.11 (talk) 02:28, 13 January 2009 (UTC)vcarow@aol.com

Other Features
What features should be listed in this section, I would like to get everyone's opinions? For instance, is external power supply worthy to be listed? Does anyone really care if it has an external power supply or not? I feel that universal remote and favorite show reminder are valid features to be listed.134.121.247.59 (talk) 00:20, 6 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I've read reviews that praise a one button zoom/unzoom feature, i.e. switching between 16:9 to 4:3 ratios without entering a menu. This would be a nice feature to know about before purchasing. Jphn37 (talk) 05:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Support for CEA-909-A (smart antenna controlled over coax); could be a variation within the smart antenna column. I doubt any have it yet.  The whole list is still looking very dismal.  Also, do any of these have more than one antenna input?  That would be a big plus for me.  Keith.blackwell (talk) 05:30, 7 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I haven't seen any with more than one antenna input. There are some out with Smart antenna, though, like the Apex DT250 available now at Best Buy. StuRat (talk) 23:33, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * can someone add a column for Energy Star certification? 216.130.131.66 (talk) 16:10, 2 May 2008 (UTC)Patrick


 * I don't know exactly what the Energy Star rating is, but to be a "CE(coupon eligible)CB" the box has to go into an energy-save mode (2 Watt max) as per the government specs. The specs are at http://www.ntia.doc.gov/dtvcoupon/DTVmanufacturers.pdf Jd4x4 (talk) 02:37, 7 May 2008 (UTC)


 * External PS seems relevant, as does a multifunction universal remote. I've given up on reminders because they haven't worked right for me on any service since I dumped cable, but it could be useful. The question I think is at what point do we branch off that other features entry for Box X to it's own page? --97.114.21.39 (talk) 00:30, 6 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Indeed. Knowing whether a box has an external PSU or not is very useful because an external power supply typically means a cooler running, much smaller box. And these types of boxes can easily be powered up in a car or RV --Tobey (talk) 04:08, 6 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, this drives decesion of switchable power strip or plug in a open socket forever.


 * Can DTV boxes be switched off when not used?


 * I haven't seen any with an off switch. They normally go into standby mode if you hit the power button or they time out to standby after a few hours.  You'd have to unplug them to turn them all the way off. StuRat (talk) 23:33, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm really interested in audio output. It seems that it's permissible for a converter box to have digital audio output, and if that is indeed the case, I'm considering it to be a requirement for any converter I buy.  --XeroxKleenex (talk) 03:17, 10 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Last we understood digital outputs of any kind were forbidden on these boxes. Do you have some kind of verification that digital out is allowed now? --97.114.21.39 (talk) 05:31, 10 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Coaxial Digital Audio is not specifically mentioned in the technical specifications. But it is not a specifically prohibited feature either. The Channel Master box has it. One of the Magnavox boxes was advertised as having it but it doesn't. SurfaceUnits (talk) 01:44, 26 March 2008 (UTC)


 * False. Digital audio output is a prohibited and disqualifying feature.  See question 16 at http://www.ntia.doc.gov/dtvcoupon/manufacturerFAQ.html  The Channel Master box originally specified the output, but on production units the jack is electrically disconnected and labeled "Not used". Refer to owner reports starting at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13396219#post13396219  -- 70.131.127.193 (talk) 21:43, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I have a Mitsubishi VCR that has an IR transmitter built in, to automatically control a cable-converter box for timed recordings (like a universal remote it allows you to select what brand of cable-box you are using with it). It would be interesting to know if any of these can be controlled by the same channel-change signals needed for cable-boxes. Then I wouldn't need an event timer built in to coordinate timed recordings. Otherwise my choices would be severely limited for timed recordings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.61.220.86 (talk) 14:12, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


 * That is one of the requirements of these boxes. Universal remotes can be programmed using already existing codesets. --97.114.21.39 (talk) 17:27, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


 * VCRplus are codes still published in newspapers which promotes older folk VCR recording with OTA DTV. I've ASKED one universal remote manufacturer to add such capability to megaHundred dollar unit.

Can OUTPUT connectors be listed? RGB to unused TV input would be so simple my parent could do it.


 * As I understand it, they all have a coax antenna output and RCA (red/white/yellow) outputs. Some also have S-Video output and a Smart antenna connection (which is output info sent to the antenna, not the TV).  The last two are listed on the chart, where present.  I don't believe RGB, HDML, or any other type of outputs are allowed. StuRat (talk) 23:33, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

No Prices Allowed
(copied from User talk:KelleyCook/Archive 1 )) Regarding "No Prices allowed"...

According to WP:DIRECTORY:

"prices of a product should not be quoted in an article unless the price can be sourced and there is a justified reason for its mention"

The article cites a source for the price, the manufacturer suggested retail price, MSRP. And there is a justification for it since the article compares CECB. The usefulness of the article is in question without some way to compare relative cost of each unit, wouldn't you agree? Rewt241 (talk) 19:02, 26 March 2008 (UTC)


 * No, what would be the justified reason to put in MSRP? As wikipedia is not a directory or review site, comparisons CANNOT take into account prices.  MSRP does not add any value when street prices vary wildly (street prices would be clearly against policy) between retail outlets.  In general, prices are almost never allowed in articles.  An example of a justified exception would be in the article about the Apple Lisa which failed precisely because it cost $10,000. -- KelleyCook (talk) 19:24, 26 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, I stated the reason why MSRP's might be justified, to compare units. Yes street prices vary, but if I'm interested in 2 units and one has MSRP of $60 and the other is $50, chances are that I'm going to find the MSRP $50 one cheaper on the street. "In general, prices are almost never allowed in articles" I beg to differ. Many articles in Wikipedia have prices. Do a search for the '$' symbol in articles like IPod or XBox. In the end it's pointless to go back and forth on the issue. Since this issue is open to interpretation and Wikipedia is created by users for users, the issue should be decided by the users. If people see a value in MSRP's in the article, reply with a Yay. If you see it as useless information, reply with a Nay. Yay Rewt241 (talk) 20:03, 26 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm on the fence about it. Leaning more toward "nay" though since MSRP seems to fit better in individual articles about each box (which have not been created yet AFAIK). --97.114.21.39 (talk) 20:32, 26 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I would definitely appreciate an MSRP column on this page. Centerone (talk) 22:35, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yay, so would I. The prices seem to vary by about $20, which took me a long time to figure out by going to various web sites, since Wikipedia didn't have the info I needed. StuRat (talk) 16:58, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Nay, because stated MSRP varies, and there is no reliable source for the information. E.g., CM-7000 from a couple NTIA approved vendors - one site says MSRP $85.99, the other says $119.95.  T3A Pro - some vendors say MSRP $69.99, one says $59.99, and another says $68.99. 70.131.121.119 (talk) 20:30, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Include MSRP. This is essentially a "forced" purchase for anyone in the U.S., with the balance over $40.00 being paid for by them and final cost is highly relevant (at least when talking about "CE" CBs). Also, I've yet to see a mfr. have more than one MSRP although they may or may not suggest a retail price, as in the case of the CM-7000. The mfr. has chosen to NOT give a MSRP (at least on the CM web site or in press releases) so "None Stated" under MSRP would also give me a relative baseline for comparison. Retailers on the other hand can ask or state whatever they like above or below at their own risk, but the actual MSRP evens the evaluation playing field and shortens the "most subsidized price" hunt for those of us where cost is relevant, imo. Jd4x4 (talk) 01:44, 7 May 2008 (UTC)


 * This article compares the $40 off Coupon Eligible Converter Boxes so the price one pays for the box is an integral part of the article. That a justified reason Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price must be included.
 * If one cannot find a reliable source for the MSRP then simply do not include it for that particular box instead of removing the prices for all boxes.
 * Also, street prices do not vary wildly on these products in retail stores.
 * Most boxes being sold today sell for around $50 or $60 before coupon.
 * 76.244.6.0 (talk) 21:36, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * If reliable sources for MSRP exist, why not start posting them on this discussion page? If reliable MSRP can be found for a majority of the units, then the main article could be updated accordingly.  In this case, a manufacturer website could be a reliable source, but a retailer's site would not qualify. 99.131.130.165 (talk) 05:26, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Availability of CECB units
I have for the most part quit editing this page due to the fact that a majority of these boxes will probably never make it to the market, making it a waste of my time adding information. I think we should have a column showing whether the box is currently available or not. I opt for a column at the far right, so that you can sort through them yet it will still allow you to view all valuable information without scrolling. If there is no strong objection I will add it when I get time; otherwise, feel free to add it yourself.134.121.246.142 (talk) 21:09, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You read my mind. I was thinking more along the lines of a column containing a date when the first box became available, only to be filled in when the boxes actually exist to avoid a convertmy.tv/MaxMedia fiasco. --97.114.2.125 (talk) 06:03, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Why not use an A in the Other Features Box for availability? SurfaceUnits (talk) 16:23, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe split it into multiple tables, such as "vapourware not available in the US", "vapourware not available in Mexico", "vapourware not available in Canada". I'd suggest one extra table for boxes that have actually been seen on store shelves, but I've never seen one. --66.102.80.212 (talk) 05:07, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Is this page relevant for Mexico and Canada? I mean, given, they get U.S. TV signals over the border... but do their governments have a coupon program?  This is a *CE*CB page -- a reference guide for converter boxes which are coupon eligible.  There should be another page just for all converter boxes, and whether it is or isn't available in CA or MX, is kind of irrelevant.  Besides, if it's on a market _somewhere_ couldn't you just mail-order it, and/or visit the country to buy it if nobody is importing it?Centerone (talk) 06:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The page is relevant in that, if a model of converter-only box is junk, that same model will still be junk even if imported to another country and paid-for at full price with no government subsidy. Also, vapourware is still vapourware, regardless of whether you choose to spell it "vaporware" :) And no, there is no CanaMex coupon program as analogue will continue to be available until at least 2011 (2021 in México). --99.245.244.176 (talk) 01:54, 28 May 2008 (UTC)


 * You'd think Canada would offer a similar program now, because their transition is only 2.5 years later and a good portion of their population gets US stations and they can afford to subsidize it. Mexico, on the other hand, can't afford it, doesn't have as large a population near the US border, and isn't making the transition anytime soon, so any converter box bought now will likely fail by that time. StuRat (talk) 13:04, 30 June 2008 (UTC)


 * This site is a good source of the dates the manufacturers claim their boxes will be available (for whatever such claims are worth): . StuRat (talk) 17:33, 21 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Here's another site that lists price and availability (at the bottom of article): . StuRat (talk) 14:04, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Comments on the Zenith DTT900/Insignia NS-DXA1/Insignia LSX300-4DM and Zenith DTT901/Insignia NS-DXA1-APT
Here are some install, setup, and usage hints that don't fit in the article proper (I assume you also want to continue to get analog TV until it's cut off, or even after, if you get Canadian/Mexican channels or low-power analog). The comments apply to both the base models (Zenith DTT900/Insignia NS-DXA1) and next gen models (Zenith DTT901/Insignia NS-DXA1-APT) unless otherwise noted. I believe that the Insignia LSX300-4DM was the pre-release model designation for the base model Insignia NS-DXA1, but I don't think they sold any before they changed the name. I will refer to the Zenith models, but the same info also applies to the Insignia models:

Availability
The Zenith models are available at Circuit City for $60 and hhgregg for $50 (see ), while the Insignia models can be found at Best Buy for $60 (although only the base Insignia model was available at the time of this writing, while both Zenith models are now available at Circuit City). Radio Shack had also said they would stock the Zenith models, but they lied.


 * Re: availability of the DTT901. I bought two DTT901 CECBs at the Bailey's Crossroads, Virginia, Circuit City on June 18. They were the same price as the DTT900, $60 (price added in edit to answer question below). The store had only three dozen or so DTT901 CECBs and many times more DTT900s. The CC website made no mention of the DTT901, but the people I talked to on the phone said they were in the store. Thanks to those people. The sales associate at the store was not aware of any difference between the units. The build date of a DTT900 was April 2008; it was May 2008 for my DTT901s.


 * Best Buy's computer had an entry for the Insignia NS-DXA1-APT, but the sales associate I talked to on the phone could provide no date for the units' arrival.


 * Thanks to all for this page.4.249.87.111 (talk) 17:39, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. Was the price $60 ? StuRat (talk) 21:34, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Asking employees of a "big box" store anything more than the color of the product is likely to result in blank stares or, even worse, outright lies. They will tell you whatever it takes to sell the product or to get you to leave them alone ("Does it have a cybernetic neural interface to bypass the remote and take input directly from the human brain ?  Sure it does !"). StuRat (talk) 21:28, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Update on the Insignia NS-DXA1-APT: The Best Buy at the Potomac Yard [sic; everyone who grew up in Alexandria called the railyard Potomac Yards] Shopping Mall in Alexandria, Virginia had about 24 Insignia NS-DXA1-APTs on display Saturday afternoon, July 26. The price was $59.99. It also had about 24 Apex DT250 CECBs on display for the same price. The Apex has the Smart Antenna feature. I asked a clerk how he would sell one versus another (I know; I'm a glutton for punishment) He said it would be the customer's choice.4.249.72.16 (talk) 04:55, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, both of those models have now started showing up in Detroit area Best Buys, as well, at the same price. I asked Best Buy if they carried any smart antenna's to go with the APEX, and then had to explain what they were.  This is pretty much what I expected to happen.  And they don't appear to carry anything beyond glorified rabbit ears. StuRat (talk) 21:06, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Differences between models
The next gen models added the following:

1) Analog passthrough. This allows you to watch analog TV without having to either use an antenna splitter (not included) or unplug the antenna from the box and plug it in the TV directly every time you want to watch analog TV.

2) Reduced power consumption, both when on (from 6.0 watts down to 3.9) and in standby mode (from 0.7 watts down to 0.5). This also means much less heat, which, to me, means they should last longer:.

3) Better reception of weak channels. The next gen models are at the top of the CECB list in this regard, although there is some variation from box to box, even within the same model.

4) Fixed bug with low volume in stereo mode.

5) Added "Install Guide" to menu system to allow you to start over and reprogram the box from scratch. You could do this before only by going through numerous menu options, now it's all in one place.

Antenna selection
Digital TV requires a better antenna than analog TV, or you can expect those fuzzy, but watchable, analog TV programs to become unwatchable due to frequent drop-outs with digital TV. This causes large blocks to appear, the picture and sound to freeze for a few seconds, and sometimes the screen will go blank.

Analog TV
Zenith DTT900: If using "rabbit ears" or an "aerial" with separate outputs for UHF and VHF, you can send the UHF to the converter box and continue to send the VHF directly to the TV. This is because digital TV is only broadcast in the UHF range. This will allow you to still get analog TV, as well, since analog TV basically only needs a VHF antenna. (Analog UHF seems to come in on most TVs without an antenna.)


 * That may be true in your area but it's not true everywhere. In the Dallas/Fort Worth area, WFAA 8 currently broadcasts their digital signal on VHF channel 9, so a converter box would need a VHF signal to receive it.63.145.109.66 (talk) 15:10, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It's currently true in many areas, as the overcrowded VHF band has been out of space for new channels since at least 1948 in the largest markets there is usually nowhere to put VHF DTV. If you're KXGN and serve the 210th largest metropolis in the nation, Glendive, Montana, great, but... there are a few other exceptions, but they're rare. This will change, however, as stations with existing 7 - 13 range analogue signals turn them off and move the digital signal to their originally-analogue channel. 10 and 13 Rochester, New York, 11 Chicago, Illinois, 7 Watertown, New York and 13 Newark, New Jersey viewers ought to be able to pick up something ATSC post-transition on these frequencies, for instance. VHF 2-6 are permitted for DTV, but the power limits are artificially low, see list of North American broadcast station classes. A choice between 20kW on 2-6 or 1000kW on channel 14 isn't much of a choice, ouch. --66.102.80.212 (talk) 03:21, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Zenith DTT901: There's no need to split the signal when using this model, as it has analog pass-through, meaning you can send both the UHF and VHF signal to the CECB and it will pass them both onto the TV. You do need to make sure you have the coax output connected, even if you use the RCA outputs for digital TV, as the coax output carries the analog pass-through signal. While it works with the box on or off, the results are better with the box off, since you don't get interference from the digital TV signal sent on channels 3 or 4 (the interference is particularly bad on adjacent channels). Unfortunately, they don't appear to have provided the option for digital output on the RCA outputs only, so you also get digital output on the coax cable whenever the CECB is on.

Antenna splitters
Zenith DTT900: If your antenna only has one output, you may want to buy a device which splits a combined antenna signal into UHF (for the converter box), VHF (for the analog VHF channels), and sometimes FM radio.


 * You may also want to not buy this device, and instead use a small amplifier with two or four signal outputs. Many small UHF stations are low-power TV and not required to shut off their analogue signals during the 2009 US transition.

Zenith DTT901: There's no need to split the signal when using this model, as it has analog pass-through (see above section).

Baluns
If you have two-lead output wires from your antenna, you will need to buy a connector to change from the two-lead antenna wires to coax, which this converter box expects as input. Techies like to refer to those by the obscure terms "75 ohm" and "300 ohm" antenna wires, and so call this device a "75 ohm to 300 ohm converter" or "balun".


 * It's called a "matching transformer" or a balun, should be available in the dollar stores and was all but synonymous with the connection of TV's to cable television until at least the mid-1980's.

Antenna connection methods
Depending on the inputs your TV has you may need to do different things. The following comments apply to the base models (like the Zenith DTT900) only:


 * a) Only a single coax input: If you still want to get analog VHF, you will need to combine the digital output coax from the converter box with the VHF output from the antenna.  This can be done either with a T-splitter, which links 3 coax cables together all the time, or an A-B box, which allows you to press button A or B to connect either cable A or B to the TV's input.


 * b) Two coax inputs: This is easier. Just plug the output coax from the converter box into one and the VHF output from the antenna into the other.  On the TV, you will need to select which antenna input to use, depending if you are watching digital or analog TV at the time.  If you are using the coax output from your converter box, your digital TV will come in on analog channel 3 or 4, which you can select from the converter box menu ("MENU" + "SETUP" + "Output Channel").


 * c) A coax input and RCA inputs (yellow, white, and red cables): This is the best situation. Use the RCA cables to connect the converter box to the TV, not the coax cable.  You can still connect the VHF signal from your antenna to the coax TV input.  Some TVs then allow you to select the input you want to use (via the remote), depending on if you want to watch analog or digital TV (the RCA inputs may be called "cable").  Other TVs, unfortunately, require you to go flip a switch on the TV or the TV automatically uses the RCA jacks if they are attached.  You would then need to flip the switch or disconnect at least one of the RCA cables to watch analog VHF TV.  Also note that the RCA jacks may already be taken up by a VCR, DVD player, or other device.  In this case, you may want to go back to steps a and b and attach both the digital TV and analog VHF to the coax TV input, leaving the RCA jacks free for other devices.

Button logic
They use three types of logic:

1) For buttons that don't change any settings, clicking once brings up the display and clicking again (or clicking EXIT) makes it disappear. This includes the SIGNAL, DISPLAY, MENU, and GUIDE buttons.  The selection button (a circle around a dot, between the four arrow buttons) also works this way.

2) For buttons that do change a setting, pressing once displays the current value while two or more presses changes the setting. This logic is used on the SLEEP, SAP, ZOOM, and CCD buttons.

3) Other buttons make an immediate change. This logic is used by the POWER, TV POWER, RECALL, FAV, CH, and VOL buttons.  The POWER and CH buttons on the base unit also behave this way.

"FAV" button
The "FAV" button on the remote was a bit of a mystery to me, at first. You program it by picking "MENU" + "SETUP" + "Channel Edit" + "FAV" when on each desired channel in the pop-up list. Then, once you exit the MENU, the FAV button will flip forward through that subset of the channels. There doesn't appear to be any option to flip backward through the list, but you do get a list of all the FAV channels when you hit the button, and can scroll up and down through that list using the up and down arrows.

"SAP" button
The "SAP" button never appears to work in my area (Detroit) to provide another language. It's called the "MTS" button on some other manufacturer's units.

"GUIDE" button
The "GUIDE" button (same as "EPG" on other manufacturer's boxes) has the odd behavior of only displaying program info for TV stations you've clicked through recently. Otherwise it says "Tune to channel for program information". It only lists the current and next program for each station (truncated after about 25 characters). This info is lost when you turn the box off and back on. Also, some stations don't always broadcast the info needed to populate the "GUIDE" and "DISPLAY" buttons, or display useless info like "DTV Program". In particular, they seem reluctant to tell you they have an infomercial on. I find the quickest way to populate the "GUIDE" is to program the "FAV" button to go through one sub-channel for each channel. This works since going to one sub-channel gets the info for all sub-channels under that channel (so, going to 2.1 also gets the info for 2.2). You need to wait long enough for each station to be acquired, say a second, when using this method. I leave out stations I rarely get.

The day of the week, date, and time is also displayed, with the current sub-channel number (but not name) highlighted. The list scrolls right to left to view info on other sub-channels, but you can only list info for one sub-channel at a time. If you hit the selection button on the remote (in the middle of the four direction arrows), it will change the TV to the sub-channel currently highlighted.

"DISPLAY" button
Displays info on the current sub-channel and program. The displayed portion of the title of the current program is about 32 characters long, and truncated if longer. The day of the week, date, and current time is listed, along with the range of time the program runs. The caption setting, screen aspect ratio, and languages available are also listed (although I can't get any language other than English even when it claims to be "Multilingual"). The program description displays 4 lines of up to 40 characters each, and another 4 such lines if you hit the down arrow on the remote (up arrow to go back up), for a max of 320 characters in the description of the current program. Unfortunately, the description is sometimes longer, resulting in truncation. The current sub-channel number and name is also displayed (but not the network). The RF/analog channel is not displayed, nor is the signal strength meter or info on the upcoming program.

"ZOOM" button
The "ZOOM" button behaves differently depending if you have "Normal TV (4:3)" or "Wide TV (16:9)" selected under "MENU" + "OPTION" + "TV Aspect Ratio". Under Normal TV, the "ZOOM" button flips through the options "Set By Program", "Letter Box", "Cropped", and "Squeezed". Under Wide TV, it flips through options "Set By Program", "16:9", "4:3", and "Zoom". Unfortunately, if you have the converter box option set so that it doesn't match the aspect ratio for the current channel, it will just say "Aspect ratio cannot be changed on this channel", when you hit the "ZOOM" button. They really need to allow you to set the aspect ratio for each channel independently to solve this issue. "ZOOM" never allows 2X, 3X, or 4X magnification, as it does on many DVD players. The box remembers your zoom setting for each channel, even if you turn the box off, which is just how it should be. Deleting a channel and then scanning it back in does reset the zoom setting, though.

"SLEEP" button
The "SLEEP" function is of limited use, since it only turns off the converter box, not the TV. This leaves the TV on with nothing but static, which can be louder than the previous program and wake you up. If your TV also has a sleep setting, make sure the TV goes off before the box to avoid this.

Closed Captions
The digital closed captioning can be customized fully. You can change the size, font, text color, text opacity, background color, background opacity, edge type, and edge color under "MENU" + "OPTION" + "Caption" + "Digital Option". The "edge color" is apparently the color at the edge of each letter, not at the edge of the caption box. I found the most visible captions to be large, font 3, yellow text and yellow edge color, black background, depressed edge type, and solid text and background. You do occasionally get garbage captions, especially when you've just changed a channel or when it's dropping out, but it's usually right. (One funny example was the phrase "proxy war" being listed as an "epoxy war", inspiring visions of combatants spraying glue on each other.)

"CCD" button
I don't like the way the CCD button on the remote works at all. Clicking the CCD button flips through the list in this order: Off, Service 1, Service 2, Service 3, Service 4, Service 5, Service 6, CC 1, CC 2, CC 3, CC 4, Text 1, Text 2, Text 3, Text 4, and back to Off. Services 1-6 are apparently digital CC while CC 1-4 and Text 1-4 are apparently analog CC. The way it works might be good if those provided 15 different, usable options, but only Service 1 and CC 1 work in my area, and, I suspect, most other places. So, I would like to be able to switch between Off, Service 1, and CC 1 by hitting the CCD button, but I end up having the hit the button 15 times when once or twice should do it. Meanwhile, the menu options under OPTION + Caption + Analog (where you pick CC 1-4 or Text 1-4) and OPTION + Caption + Digital (where you pick Service 1-6), appear to be totally ignored. They should have made the CCD button flip between Off, whatever selection for digital closed captioning had been made in the menu system, and whatever selection for analog closed captioning had been made in the menu system.

Volume
Zenith DTT900: The volume controls only allow you to reduce the volume below the level set by the TV, not above. I've found that at the 100% setting the volume of digital TV matches the analog volume, but only if you have "Mono" selected under "MENU" + "OPTION" + "Audio Output". If you pick "Stereo", you can never get the volume as high under digital as it was in analog. It's quite annoying if the volume changes when toggling between analog and digital, so I suggest leaving the volume on the converter box set to 100%, setting the audio output to mono, and using your TV remote to control the volume.

Zenith DTT901: The low volume in stereo mode problem appears to have been fixed. I now get the same volume as under mono. Also, the volume for digital TV now matches analog when the digital TV is set to about 80% volume. That mean's you actually get a louder volume on digital TV than analog, when digital is set to 100%. This can be helpful if you hit a quiet section while watching digital TV and want to increase the volume a bit. (If you normally leave it at 80% to match analog TV, you have a little room to work with.) StuRat (talk) 09:59, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Remote control
The remote is laid-out well. It's not a universal remote but does allow you to reduce or mute the volume and allows you to turn on/off most TVs (but not all). It only has one AAA battery so it will likely need to be replaced often. I failed to notice the clear plastic wrap around the supplied battery when I first installed it in the remote, with predictable results. The controls on the base unit are minimal (on/off and channel up/down), so don't lose the remote. If you do lose it, note that you can use the remote from another unit until you find it. Only the "TV POWER" button won't work, unless it's reprogrammed for the new TV.

One thing they didn't think out well is that the four arrow buttons could also double as VOL and CH buttons, as they do on some other manufacturer's units. That would leave the old buttons to be used for FAV up and down and maybe manual RF channel tuning up and down.


 * Bought one of these Zenith DTT900 converters and for the life of me cannot get the remote to work on my Panasonic Model CTJ2042R television. I currently need to use two remotes one to turn on/off the television and the other for volume and channel selection.Gene in NE (talk) 17:56, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

"SIGNAL" button
The SIGNAL button displays a bar and beeps more or less often depending on the signal strength on the current station. The beeps can be used to adjust the antenna and listen for increasing and decreasing beeps, so you don't have to watch the screen while you adjust an antenna behind the TV. Unfortunately, the SIGNAL button display, like all other on-screen displays for this model, times out after a minute, so you'd better finish your antenna adjustment quickly or you have to go push the SIGNAL button again.

"RECALL" button
Immediately flips to the last sub-channel viewed and displays the sub-channel number and name. Also provides a vertical scrollable list of all sub-channels viewed previously. Scrolling to a station and leaving it for one second changes to that sub-channel. After 5 seconds, the scrollable list disappears.

Menu
The MENU button gets you into the menu system. The EXIT button on the remote exits the menu entirely while the MENU or "<" button backs up a level. The ">" button goes down a level. The box recalls which top level menu you had selected when you go back in, and which sub-menu when you pick the ">" button. The up and down arrows scroll vertically through the current menu level.

Auto Tuning
This first wipes out any channels you already had (and any customization of those stations, like ZOOM settings), then scans for all stations again.

EZ Add
This does a scan and adds any new stations it finds, but doesn't delete any existing stations. This is an excellent feature that many other boxes lack.

Channel Edit
This does two things:

a) It allows you to "delete" a sub-channel, which means it's still in the list of valid sub-channels, but you skip over it when changing channels with the channel up and channel down buttons. (You can still type in the sub-channel number explicitly to tune to it.)  You can come back to this menu to "Add" a deleted sub-channel back in.  However, this menu can't add a channel that isn't already in the list of valid stations, created using the above two menu options and the following menu option.

b) It allows you to set "FAV" stations for use with the FAV button. As you would probably suspect, a station can't be both deleted and a FAV.

Manual Tuning
This allows you to look up a radio frequency/analog channel (2-69), and add all digital sub-channels found there to the list of valid stations. (If none are found, it adds "n"-1 as a pretend digital sub-channel, where "n" is the radio frequency/analog channel.) This is where you see the mapping from the radio frequency/analog channel and the new digital sub-channels. When you first enter this menu it's set to the current sub-channel, and gives you the sub-channel name as well as the radio frequency/analog channel on which it's carried. So, this menu can be used in either direction, to get the analog channel from the digital or vice-versa.

Output Channel
Here you set the analog output channel to either 3 or 4 (also having a "neither" option would have been nice). This is for the coax output only. One problem here is if you set the output channel to one that's the same as an analog channel in your area, the interference prevents you from seeing the menu to set it back. A switch on the back would have been a better choice.

Install Guide
This submenu was absent on the DTT900, but has been added in the DTT901. It steps through the process of setting up the box again. It essentially resets most of your customizations and starts fresh.

Clock
It seems to know the day of the week, date, time, time zone, and daylight savings time settings automatically. I imagine this info is broadcast somehow. This could be quite useful when setting clocks, say after a power outage. The time is also displayed when you use the GUIDE and DISPLAY buttons, but those only go down to minutes, while this menu includes seconds, too. They don't even let you change the date and time. If you change the time zone or daylight savings time setting, it adjusts the time accordingly. They only have US and Canadian time zones, which work for the Americas but not Eurasia, Africa, Australia, etc. I wonder if this box would work on those other continents. If so, they will have a prob with the time zone settings.

TV Aspect Ratio
Choose either "Normal TV (4:3)" or "Wide TV (16:9)". It seems to me that anyone with a CECB must be using it with an old, 4:3 aspect ratio TV. Did anyone actually sell a wide-screen TV that doesn't have it's own digital tuner ? However, each digital sub-channel broadcasts at either the 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratios. (Those broadcasts may include black bars at the edges, however.) Unfortunately, you need to have this setting changed to match the ratio at which that digital sub-channel is broadcasting to be able to use the Zoom button on that channel. That means you have to go through the menu system, since there's no remote button to select 4:3 or 16:9. The box also doesn't remember which stations you want to display at the 4:3 aspect ratio and which you want to display at 16:9, it just has every station display in the current mode. It takes a minimum of 4 clicks to bring up the menu and change the this setting.

Aspect Ratio
This is the same as the ZOOM button. If the current sub-channel is broadcast at a ratio other than the one set in the step above, this option is dim. If the aspect ratio matches, you get different choices depending on the aspect ratio setting. In 4:3 mode you get options "Set By Program", "Letter Box", "Cropped", and "Squeezed". I prefer Cropped, as it usually fills the screen without any distortion. However, I might turn this off when viewing titles and credits, as part of them can be cropped off the right and left sides. In 16:9 mode you get options "Set By Program", "16:9", "4:3", and "Zoom". I usually use "16:9" or "Zoom" here.

Language
Has language selection menus for Menu and Audio. Both offer English, Spanish, and French. The Menu option works, but the Audio language selection doesn't appear to do anything, at least in my area.

Caption
Has options for closed captions. I may add info here later.

Auto Off
Has options "Off", "1 hour", "2 hours", "3 hours", and "4 hours". The SLEEP button on the remote flips through these same options. I set it at 4 hours in case I fall asleep with the TV on. One problem is that if you use the coax RF output to connect to your TV, the TV will display static, possibly with loud white noise, when the box switches to standby. If you use the A/V cables instead, then you typically get silence with a black screen, a much better result.

Audio Output
Has "Stereo" and "Mono" options. With the DTT900 the volume was unacceptable low in stereo mode, but this has been fixed in the DTT901, where both modes produce the same volume.

LOCK
Has various options for locking out channels based on ratings of programs (VCHIP). I might expand on this section later.

Well, that's been my experience so far. If anyone has any questions or suggestions, please let me know. I'd also like to know if the SAP button works for anyone else, if the GUIDE button acts so strangely on other converter boxes, etc. StuRat (talk) 17:38, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Some other DTV/CECB off-air reception considerations:
1.	Analog Pass-Through Feature – This may not be only useful in Can/Mex border-states to conveniently receive any remaining non-US analog TV stations. Consider the US LPTV exemption. Those small, local, Low Power stateside transmitters can remain analog. The DTV conversion hardware costs might not be affordable.

2.	Antenna Rotator Problem – Consider being sited where the TV transmitters are located in different directions. Most tuner setup features scan and wipe. And you cannot manually add any “unfound” stations. That means a re-scan would be required when changing bearings to receive another channel. According the their Tech Support, Channel Master, which also makes antenna rotators, claims a re-scan will add new channels to their set-top. This is not listed in the specifications. Wonder if any other brands offer this handy feature?


 * Good idea. We should add "can scan to add channels" to the "additional features" column. 63.145.109.66 (talk) 15:49, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I believe the term is called "direct tuning", where you can input an RF channel number on the remote and the box will change to that and scan for an ATSC signal. The Digital Stream DTX9900 is one example of a CECB capable of doing that. Remember that if a channel has remapped itself to the RF number you want to tune you won't be able to do this. --97.114.3.201 (talk) 19:04, 13 May 2008 (UTC)


 * That's one thing I found quite annoying about the Panasonic DMR-EZ28K and others in that series; if the initial scan misses a digital signal, it's not possible to add it later without wiping out everything. The same is not true for analogue on that unit (which doesn't qualify for the coupon BTW because it's DVD-based with [braindead] SD and USB support, S/PDIF, HDMI and a few other disqualifying "features"). --66.102.80.212 (talk) 04:05, 20 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Note that the "-N" flag in the last column of the chart indicates CECBs which lack manual channel edit ability. The Zenith and Insignia models, for example, don't have this shortcoming. StuRat (talk) 15:52, 21 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The mentally-challenged manual channel editing (you can manually add analogue channels but not digital on some of the DVD units) is only part of the problem. The inability to have the auto-scan add new channels without wiping out the existing information aggravates the problem significantly. Suppose you have two broadcasters in different directions and are using some form of antenna rotor. Point at one station and scan, just that station is found. Now point at the other station and rescan, the second station is found but the first is wiped out from the settings... and you can't add it manually because it's digital. So how do you get all of the channels? Dunno. And these are full-priced ATSC DVD makers, not just inexpensive "coupon boxes", with this rather glaring blunder in firmware design. What were they thinking? --99.245.244.176 (talk) 11:19, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

3.	Station coverage - The FCC plan is to vacate the VHF TV band for non-TV applications, so most DTV broadcasts are allocated on the UHF TV band. Because of greater signal attenuation, those frequencies require more transmitter power at the same antenna height to achieve the same footprint/range. That could cost stations a lot of money for electricity. Note that max ERP (Effective Radiated Power) for LowBand (Ch 2-6) was 100 kW, HighBand (Ch 7-9) was 216 kW, and UHF (Ch 14-83) was 4 mW. Some broadcasters may not spring for this expense. Remember, this is a digital system subject to the same dropout problems as cell phones, so instead of getting a weak but acceptable analog picture you may get none.


 * Four milliwatts of UHF? Ouch!


 * I'm unaware of any plans to vacate the entire VHF band. UHF channels 52-69 are to be vacated after 2/17/2009, but not VHF. Channels 2-6 aren't particularly suitable for DTV and few stations plan on using those channels after 2/17, and there's a grassroots movement to reallocate channel 6 to low-power FM radio, but channels 7-13 will remain in widespread use after 2/17. (By the way, DTV power levels are lower than analog; a full-power UHF analog station radiates 5 MW ERP, while an equivalant DTV station radiates only 1 MW.) 63.145.109.66 (talk) 15:49, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

= Why are lowband channels considered worse than highband for DTV? The 6 MHz RF channel bandwidths are the same. Propagation is actually better at lower frequencies, making the entire VHF spectrum desireable. Lower power allocation for DTV apparently puts HDTV coverage at a disadvantage. Wonder why it is to be so low? I cannot receive some DTV stations at a distance of only 25 smi line-of-site. Tried several receivers too. Free HDTV must be for city folk.


 * They're worse only because of an insanely-low maximum power limit of 20kW on DTV. The only other possibility would be that, under some very unusual atmospheric conditions, the lower frequencies would be more likely to bounce off the upper atmosphere layers and travel great but unpredictable distances. Nonetheless, that is rare... --66.102.80.212 (talk) 04:05, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

= Note that several of the DTV assignments currently in use in Phila & NYC are on the UHF channels slated for vacating. (i.e WPVI/ABC-6/64, WCAU/NBC-10/67, WNET/PBS-13/61). BTW the Cellular band was derived from the old TV translator channels 70 to 83. The FCC has been nibbling away for years.


 * Some of these (such as WNET) will be reusing the original analogue frequencies (and presumably branding such as "thirteen.org" which pre-dates DTV) for ATSC broadcasts after this is all over. Oddly, channel 69 has been assigned to CKWS-TV for ATSC construction *after* the 2009 US switchover - its transmitter location is an island in the middle of the St. Lawrence River, which forms the Canada-USA border in that region. No idea what in Hull the bureaucrats who chose that frequency were thinking, but it does seem that out-of-core channels (52-69) are still being assigned to new transmitters. Oddly, there's even a channel 70 still licensed to a station in Minnesnowta even though it has been out-of-band since 1983 - go figure. --66.102.80.212 (talk) 04:05, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

'= Is there a list revealing the "final" (after Feb 2009) channel assignments for existing TV stations. For example, you revealed that NYC PBS channel 13 VHF which is currently using Ch 61 UHF for DTV will revert to VHF Ch 13 for final DTV. Also, what are the max DTV ERPs authorized on LowBand(2-6), HighBand(7-13), and UHF(14-52)? (I am particularly interested in the NYC/Phila area. Currently, the "temporary" UHF DTV broadcasts offer lousy reception at ONLY 20 smi.  Will the NYC LowBand stations Ch 2, Ch 4, Ch 5 stay on UHF or revert?)  Possibly, if the stations revert to their former VHF assignments reception might improve. This is unless the lower DTV power levels compromise coverage. Just trying to predict if our circumstances might be better when plugs are pulled.' —Preceding unsigned comment added by Twiddledee123 (talk • contribs) 15:35, 21 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not aware of a list, but you can get that info from http://www.antennaweb.org. From your zip code, street address, and/or map click, they will give you a list of digital (and/or analog) stations in your area, and the digital stations which plan to move are listed twice, one of which will have the "Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition)" comment under the "Live Date" column.  That's the final RF channel assignment, and the other is the temporary one. StuRat (talk) 16:03, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

'''= Thanks for the tip. Have visited antennaweb before. That appears to be a new column and it is not readily apparent the righthand numeric channel assignment is to be the final one. Can I presume your interpretation is correct as all the left and right channel numbers are the same? It would be clearer if the chart also listed the actual current DTV assignment. Since all the VHF slots are occupied in NYC all the DTV outlets are on UHF. Unfortunately, the ATSC TV tuners list the parent channel number rather than the actual one so as not to confuse the public. The antennaweb chart will need updating as not all the NYC stations have the revert detail entered yet. The stations are not divulging any technical info like ERP to the public.''' —Preceding unsigned comment added by Twiddledee123 (talk • contribs) 00:10, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * There is a list on http://www.w9wi.com/dtvch/dtvch.html and the original should be on http://fcc.gov somewhere. --99.245.244.176 (talk) 11:24, 27 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The FCC TV Query search is http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/audio/tvq.html - channels which are moving or changing their power levels at the end of this will be listed as "digital construction permits" currently. For instance, a list of channels moving back to VHF is (search for digital TV, construction permit, channels 2-13). The maximum ERP's are in the List of North American broadcast station classes, and are 20kW on VHF channels 2-6, 65kW on 7-13, or one megawatt of UHF (channels 14-51). The amounts of power actually being licensed are significantly lower, most of the lower channels are being issued with several kilowatts of power - clearly not enough to do the job for most broadcasters. --66.102.80.212 (talk) 14:14, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

4.	Using DVRs and VCRs with analog tuners - Recording multiple programs on different networks while away from home requires automatic channel changes. The converter boxes have clocks to facilitate the EPG feature, but cannot be programmed to change channels. As the converter boxes are fixed on one channel it appears the only solution is a programmable remote control with built-in timer. We would need the appropriate IR codes unless the remote is also a “learning” one.


 * A few CECBs boast that they have VCR timers so you can set them to change channels automatically, but the vast majority will need to be remote-controlled as you suggest. Universal remote programming info would be very useful, although I'm not sure it should go in this comparison chart. Perhaps it could be included in individual articles for each converter box. 63.145.109.66 (talk) 15:49, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * ATSC tuners are only just beginning to find their way into DVD recorders, and the situation for VHS is worse still - most of the ATSC-aware VCR's are combo units.

= Which brands/models specify VCR/DVR IR control?


 * Those with a "T" in the last column on the chart. I only see one, the Dishnetwork DTVPAL, but there may be more.  Also note that you can record one station just by leaving the CECB turned on and tuned to that channel; it's only recording two or more stations during a period when you're away that requires this feature. StuRat (talk) 16:09, 21 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The DTVpal just became available in late June 2008, per http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/27/dish-networks-59-99-dtvpal-now-available - MSRP is $60 on this box.

5.	Channel Jumps - Bummer! Gone are the days of a quick check on what is playing on the last channel visited. Station acquisition for the decode process takes time. The only solution would be two set-tops on a TV set having dual inputs, like those with picture-In-Picture. (Use different set-top brands so the remote control signals do not interfere with each other.)


 * I have a Digital Stream DTX9900. Channel changes are actually pretty snappy, only slightly slower than analog and in fact quicker than with a cable company provided digital STB. You're probably right about it though, the performance of this box isn't indicative of every CECB. --97.114.3.201 (talk) 19:07, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Comments are welcomed.


 * I've noticed that channel changes are faster on an ATSC-capable TV than on an old circa-1993 analogue set plugged into an ATSC DVD recorder as a set-top box. Annoying, that. It can take a couple of seconds or more for some units to lock onto a new signal. Even the computer video capture adapters (such as the WinTV HVR-950) are noticeably slower to change digital channels than analogue, even though their output is USB and presumably fully-digital. --66.102.80.212 (talk) 04:05, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

= Wallmart and Radio Shack only stock the low-end boxes and the coupons will expire soon.

Twiddledee123 (talk) 20:58, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Radio Shack appears to have decided not to stock any CECB units, probably because they got stuck with the first generation boxes, which lacked analog pass-through. They do say they will order (with free delivery), the Digital Stream DTX9950, which seems like a decent unit from the specs, although I haven't tried it personally.  Walmart does indeed only carry a real piece of crap Magnavox box. StuRat (talk) 14:44, 26 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Coupons? Try even finding the *boxes* if you're in Canada or México, it's an exercise in frustration at best even though many of the stations received are US-based and affected by this transition. ATSC TV's are plentiful, but DVD units are mostly not ATSC-aware (possibly because whatever can't be sold stateside after transition is going to end up dumped in other NTSC countries) and CECB-style units are nowhere to be found except on eBay or in the US itself. --66.102.80.212 (talk) 04:05, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

How does analog passthrough work ?
1) Does the analog signal only come out the coax output, or also out the other outputs ?

2) Do you need to select analog output on the remote or is it always produced whenever the CECB is on ?

These two seem related, as the coax output can send multiple frequencies at once, but, as far as I know, other outputs only produce a single frequency at a time. StuRat (talk) 09:15, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I believe the idea is that, when the box is turned off, the antenna is connected directly through to the coax output so that you can tune normally using the TV. That's how it used to work with the old UHF converters (except that they used old-style twin-lead instead of coax).
 * Sending an analogue channel to the line-level audio/video jacks would require that the box provide its own built-in analogue tuner, an unnecessary and unjustifiable expense for a low-end "coupon box" that is built just to avoid a loss of more existing channels after analogue shutdown. The same is not true of boxes that provide other functions (such as DVD recorders or disc/VHS combo boxes) as they need to tune the analogue channels to be able to record them. Those boxes, however, have a much steeper price tag and do not qualify for any subsidies. --99.245.244.176 (talk) 01:11, 27 May 2008 (UTC)


 * On the Samsung DTB-H260F (non-CECB) when the unit is off the analog signal passed through is attenuated to the point that it's all but unusable. When the unit is on it's given a small boost instead. Since the CECBs output on ch3 or ch4 then passthrough with the box on would simply make one or the other channel unavailable for analog reception. Functionality of passthrough with the box off is determined by manufacture. --97.114.8.22 (talk) 21:02, 31 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. How can I determine the analog pass-through functionality of the Zenith DTT901 ? StuRat (talk) 15:29, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, I went and bought a Zenith DTT901, so can now answer some of my own questions:

1) As we thought, the analog pass-through only comes through the coax output.

2) There's no selection for analog pass-through. It appears to occur whether the CECB is turned on or off. However, if the CECB is on, expect some interference, especially on channels adjacent to channel 3 or 4 (whichever is selected for the coax digital output).

And, in case anyone is curious, Zenith appears to have solved the issue with low volume output when set to stereo mode (this was a problem on their previous DTT900 model). It now provides the same volume as when it's set to mono output. StuRat (talk) 14:32, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

What Constitutes a Universal Remote ?
The Zenith/Insignia models were marked as having a universal remote, when all they can do is turn the TV on and off. (Their volume and mute buttons don't control the TV volume, they just control the volume the converter box sends to the TV. That is, if you switch the TV back to analog mode, the volume is unaffected.)  So, what exactly constitutes a universal remote ? I would think, at a minimum, it must do ALL of the following:

1) Turn TV on and off.

2) Change TV volume in analog mode.

3) Mute TV volume in analog mode.

4) Change TV channels in analog mode.

Does everyone else agree ? StuRat (talk) 04:03, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that it's ridiculous to call something a universal remote if it does so little. Even if it controlled all TV functions, but couldn't control DVD players and other devices, it would be stupid to call it universal. Himatsu Bushi (talk) 21:38, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Another question on this general topic: has anyone tried to program a real universal remote to control their CECB? Had any trouble? If so, which model? Himatsu Bushi (talk) 21:50, 28 June 2008 (UTC)


 * This site seems to say there is some possibility of programming some of the CECB remote functions on some other remotes: (see the "Remote Control Codes" section of ). However, I can't imagine a universal remote that could perform all the functions of the CECB remotes, like the signal strength indicator. StuRat (talk) 02:50, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I heard a rumor about a universal remote that you could program it by using the other remote, aka you would hold the mute button on UR (universal remote) then you'd tap the mute button on the inferior remote, and bingo! a quick google returns "To have all the functions of your original remote available you can copy the signal transmitted from the original remote. It is then stored in the memory of the Universal remote control." so it seems possible at least. -- Compn (talk) 02:15, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Are Zenith and Insignia the same?
Maybe this has been obvious to everyone here, but I've only recently noticed that it seems that the Zenith and Insignia models are differently-branded identical devices. Is this true? Are there any differences at all? Himatsu Bushi (talk) 21:50, 28 June 2008 (UTC)


 * It's not exactly clear. It appears to me that the base models, the Zenith ZTT900 & Insignia NS-DXA1, are identical and sold at Circuit City and Best Buy, respectively.  The next generation models are the Zenith ZTT901 or the Insignia NS-DXA1-APT.  However, while the new Zenith has shown up on store shelves the new Insignia has not.  I also saw a pic of the back of the new (I assume) Insignia that appears to show a smart antenna interface, which the new Zenith lacks (pick "External Photos" at this site to see: ).  If they are adding that feature to the next gen Insignia, then that would mean the two models are no longer identical.  I suppose the pic could have just been a mock-up of what they thought it might look like, and they later decided to drop the smart antenna support, though. StuRat (talk) 02:45, 29 June 2008 (UTC)