User talk:Sumple/Archive 3

This is an archive of discussions on User talk:Sumple from 25 November 2006 to 27 March 2007

Cheng Qiang
Great improvement on the article, good job! In the meantime, moved the article back to Cheng Qiang and I had to restore it. Keep your eyes open, he sure will try again. I know the type... --Niohe 16:00, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Fort Street High
you're assumption is correct. The history is set out clearly on their webpage.

There are many people making many claims to be the oldest/oldest continuous operating school/government school/private school in australia/some state. Most of them are incorrect.

Btw I knew it was 1816 the 1818 was a typo!

Cmurphy au 06:13, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Wang Wei (pilot)
As a participant in the debate, I invite you to comment on the straw poll I have set up. This straw poll has been listed at Current surveys as well. enochlau (talk) 22:30, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Re: Chinese surnames
I just had a look, good job! It is easy to read, well structured and informative to many different communities on Wikipedia. I wish Yao Ziyuan and the other had the imagination and patience to create pages like this.--Niohe 00:09, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I like what you've done too. But can't help you much as my PTH pronunciation is a bit off, and my pinyin isn't good. I've been surfing around the topic, and I stumbled on a dab/navigation page of sorts at List of common Chinese surnames. The advantage is that it is of the most common names are covered. However, there seems to be a real for a convention on oriental names in English. Ohconfucius 02:32, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

An invitation to view my new Userpage
Dear User:Sumple, after spending some time pondering how to create my Userpage, I am pleased to announce the creation of my Userpage. I would very much like to invite you to have a look and comment about it. Any suggestions and improvements are welcome. An auspicious occasion indeed. Nic tan33 15:57, 28 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the complements man. Well, as you can see, my Userpage is still under construction. Also, finding more Userboxes can be a serious pain, but I will persevere. Ah yes, my 21st Birthday (It's the 29th), a Happy Day indeed... Keep the comments coming! Nic tan33 01:25, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Grand Council
Hi! It finally happened, someone has made a disambiguation page for the Grand Council, but the page on the Grand Council that you and I have worked on remains where it is. Let's try to keep it that way, if possible. When I created the page in the first place, I wanted it to belong to China.--Niohe 19:24, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Welcome back and happy holidays!
Welcome back! I sure did notice your absence. The iron curtain is a nuisance every time I'm back in China, but it helps me wean my Internet addiction. Anyway, glad to see you back and I hope to see you around!--Niohe 04:46, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

A tiny bit of the text from the official website
Take a look at User:Sumple/Forbidden City2--Filll 03:15, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

There is far more on the official website but some of it I was not able to copy easily. Some of it is flash presentations etc. If you can find another machine or a different browser that gives you better access you will see even more material. But this will give you a start at least.--Filll 05:30, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Temple of Heaven
That makes complete sense to me, since Yuan Shikai came to power on a groundswell of nationalism. Thanks for the info!--Niohe 23:24, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Yue Fei pictures
Those pictures look great. I am writing an article about his teacher Jow Tong. Tell me what you think. (Ghostexorcist 00:13, 7 January 2007 (UTC))

's edits
Greetings, I noticed you have reverted some of edits before. He is continuing to push his POV on China/Taiwan-related articles. Could you help keep an eye over his edits? See his contributions for details. Please reply here. Thanks. Guardian Tiger 16:55, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Believe you me, imo the fact that editors like User:Certified.Gangsta is still allowed to edit exemplifies the biggest problem with Wikipedia. Note that I'm not saying there's anything wrong with his person or his beliefs; what I'm saying is that people who know next to nothing about a subject, or are so misguided as to be completely wrong in every single respect, have the same powers and privileges as another person with a much more complete understanding or expertise. That is a systematic problem.
 * I will keep an eye on the relevant articles, but fortunately there are enough sensible editors and admins out there who actually know a thing or two about what they are editing to stop him from doing too much damage. --Sumple (Talk) 21:50, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey!
Thanxs for the message! Certified.Gangsta is an aggressive and bold editor, so he/she undoubtedly offend Wikipedians along the way. I'm aware of the disputes Gangsta had with other Wikipedians. I do not approve or disapprove of his actions, I only got involved after he started to go after scokpuppets I also had problems with. Anyways, I hope to see you around! =D   Jumping cheese   Cont @ct 20:36, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Xinjiang
Hi, thanks for your intervention on the empresses. These pages have been irritating me for a long while. Perhaps I shouldn't be too invested in all this, but I want Qing history pages to be neat and accurate, unlike another editor, who seems to prefer a more flamboyant style.

By the way, I want to ask you if you could intervene in a debate I'm having with Ksyrie whether we should include a reference to Western Regions in the first paragraph of Xinjiang or not. Ksyrie wants to include it to "balance off" a reference to East Turkistan, but I think these two terms cannot be put on a par. To begin with, Western Regions is not a particularly common term in English, it does not refer to the whole region of Xinjiang, and it is a term that was used a millenia ago or so. I fear that including a reference to Western Regions may privilege a PRC historiography in this region, which is something we should stay away from. (I think)

For some reason, Ksyrie thinks that there is some kind of secessionist agenda behind my edits, and it's quite hard to reach out to him. And my somewhat caustic style has put him off, and I don't blame him. I wonder if you could write a line or two on Talk:Xinjiang. You don't have to agree with me of course, but I felt your voice might inject some sense into this tedious (but important) discussion.--Niohe 00:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Wow! That was exhaustive, thanks a lot!--Niohe 15:15, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

2 angry men
Hi, Thanks for your input. It gets a bit 'lonely' sometimes coping abuse for trying to do what looks like the right thing. Maybe I'm just being thick. I do wonder. There is an opportunity to put Tiger on 'parole', get a promise that he'll stop editing certain articles, or whatever. But they don't seem interested in that. It's as if they want him to create a new account. Anyway, I'll keep going. Maybe there's something in Ragnarok's contributions that I keep overlooking that will let me join the mob in calling for his blood. Cheers, Ben Aveling 00:04, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Sweet noodle sauce
Hi, can you add a link, in the External links section, to a photo (maybe that you find on Google) of some sweet noodle sauce in the Sweet noodle sauce article? I'm interested to see what it looks like. Badagnani 03:07, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Because the article says it's made from yellow soybeans, I had expected it to be yellow in color. Instead, it is a deep brown/black, like hoisin sauce. It also looks like Korean jajang--is there any connection? Interesting that in Korea people dip onions in doenjang, but that is usually lighter in color. Badagnani 01:32, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

See photo of Korean jajang here. Is this the Korean equivalent of sweet noodle sauce? Badagnani 02:06, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey, wait a minute--this package says "Hoisin sauce" in English! Is there some confusion or are the two sauces (sweet noodle sauce and hoisin sauce) essentially the same thing? Or is one a Cantonese version and the other a Northern Chinese version? Badagnani 01:46, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Lee Kum Kee article needs hanzi. Badagnani 02:17, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: Soccer
Especially in Mainland China around the Cultural Revolution, Football could be seen as too western, leading to a certain degree of cultural prosecution. From my experience even today there is contempt from some conservative people of football as it is not considered a part of Chinese culture, while they prefer sports like table tennis and badminton - despite the fact that they both do not originate in China, they are considered a more national sport in China (probably because China excels in them). I do not personally dislike football, but there have been a few times when I find people talking about disliking football because it's too westernized. Aran|heru|nar 06:09, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Medical Rural Bonded Scheme
Your opinion on this? enochlau (talk) 13:11, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Rice vermicelli
Hi, do you speak Shanghainese? If so, can you come up with the romanization/pronunciation for Rice vermicelli? I think it would be worthwhile to add it, as the template I've fixed up has this language listed. Badagnani 20:58, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

My erhu teacher was Shanghainese, and his name was Wang, Yiyi. He said that in his dialect, "Yi" was pronounced "yeui" (with rising tone). Sort of a very strong umlaut-like diphthong which one would never encounter in Mandarin, but Cantonese has this sort of "eui" vowel diphthong/triphthong as well. Badagnani 23:47, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Luk mei ingredients
Hi, can you check Chinese websites to confirm the ingredients for the luk mei tong sui? I think there could be more than 6 choices for ingredients: "六味, pinyin: liù wèi) (six ingredients: snow fungus, lotus seeds, dried longan, quail eggs, huai shan (wild yam), and fox nuts; daylily bulbs may also be used)". Badagnani 18:00, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

A comment long time ago...
Looks like some people are having issues with the comment that you made on my talk page before: see. Do you wish to have it erased as Phanatical wishes, or do you wish for it to stay? enochlau (talk) 00:24, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think there's anything wrong with it either, so I'll just leave it. I prefer my archives to be accurate historical records despite the wishes of any censors out here =) Have fun. enochlau (talk) 02:51, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Reply to FLG
lol. They think we're agents for the Communist Party. Colipon+(T) 21:02, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey Sumple, I know patience can wear thin with people whose opinions you don't agree with, but if we don't practice tolerance towards FGers then Wiki will never have a relatively neutral version of what's going on. Never underestimate the power of tolerance - or Wiki.  Jsw663 20:11, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Sweet and sour pork
Hi, can you help explain the Chinese name of this dish, Sweet and sour pork? It doesn't make sense to me. Badagnani 00:36, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

You mean "mumbling/muttering pork"? That's very strange, and you're right, the other one doesn't seem to make sense either. We must get to the bottom of this, however! Maybe some Chinese-language online sources will shed light on this? Badagnani 05:24, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

There are two legends given here, both very funny! What do you think about these stories? They may both be utter B.S., I suppose. Badagnani 05:27, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

This guy is really knowledgeable:


 * from http://www.chowhound.com/topics/308964


 * "There are many different kinds of Chinese food, and I wish people could be more tolerant of different kinds . . . and of course, the same person can like many different styles!


 * "Sweet and sour chicken has a complex historical origin. Sweet and sour pork was invented in the nineteenth century in Guangzhou as a variant of tiansuan paigu (spare ribs in sweet-sour sauce). Some Westerners staying in Guangzhou didn't like the bones in the already existing dish, and so a boneless pork dish in the sweet-sour sauce was created, apparently first called gulurou (complaining meat), but generally rendered as gulaorou (meat in the ancient style) to be a bit more polite. Although essentially the same as tiansuan paigu, gulaorou was mentioned rarely in Chinese cooking anthologies, which perhaps display the same kind of prejudice seen here! :) Yet it spread to the United States, I believe first in the 1950s. This, incidentally, is a very different path than some of the San Francisco Chinatown inventions, like chopsuey, early in the twentieth century."


 * lipoff Jul 13, 2006

Badagnani 05:55, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

ApocalypticDestroyer's's appeal
Hi, Just letting you know that I have lodged an appeal at ANI on ApocalypticDestroyer's's behalf. Regards, Ben Aveling 08:48, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Chrysanthemum tea
Maybe you could check my additions to Chrysanthemum tea? Badagnani 13:25, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

龍的傳人
Hi. Could you say roughly how recent the word came to be? Is it a really modern one? Thanks. Xiner (talk, email) 15:15, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah, that's very helpful and was what was missing from Chinese dragon. If you have time, please review the info I transferred there from my talk page and improve it. Thanks again. Xiner (talk, email) 23:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Btw, since you're knowledgeable about Chinese, I'd be grateful if you could take a look at this usercat rename nomination. Xiner (talk, email) 01:13, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Corn crab soup
Hi, the discussion here says this is also eaten in Hong Kong. And a Google search shows it on menus in Taiwan. Any idea if the claim in the article, that it's only served in North America, is valid? Badagnani 19:12, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

杨梅酒
I don't know if you're familiar with this from Shanghai but I just tried, for the first time, a bottle of 杨梅酒 (yangmei jiu). It comes in a glass bottle, and is labeled "Arbutus drink." It's a light red color, full of whole yangmei fruits, and labeled as having been produced in China by the "Strong America" company. The funny thing is that it tastes very alcoholic (maybe 15-20 percent) but there's no alcohol listed in the ingredients (just sugar, water, and fruit), and "wine" or "liquor" is mentioned nowhere on the label, and it's sold with other fruit juices. The liquor doesn't taste as if it has been fermented; it tastes like a dilute hard liquor like shaojiu or baijiu into which yangmei fruits have been steeped. Do you have, or can you find any additional information about this beverage? Where it's made, whether it is indeed fermented as the label implies or whether it's made by soaking yangmei in pre-existing baijiu, etc.? Badagnani 08:56, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

There's a photo of what appears to be a homemade liquor with yangmei soaking in it here. Badagnani 08:57, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

The Pig article
FYI, I built up ALL the Chinese zodiac sign articles. I have been maintaining them for a long, long time. What you added was irrelevent. The Rat is an animal which is looked upon with disgust aswell, why not add a "nomenclature" part to that article, and every other sign aswell? User:VeronicaPR


 * So, why did you then take out the "Pig traditional attributes", the table which listed countries, traits, etc. ? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by VeronicaPR (talk • contribs) 05:59, 21 February 2007 (UTC).


 * Sorry, just checked. That was not you. I put it back up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by VeronicaPR (talk • contribs) 06:01, 21 February 2007 (UTC).

They were originally posted by a poster who is of Chinese descent and is a Chinese astrologer. There is not much literature about these parts of Chinese astrology, but in China, devout followers of the zodiac associate the different signs with certain states/regions of the world according to history, politics, culture and geographical longitude/latitude numbers. User:VeroincaPR

Pig article...again
Why do you insist on taking out the traditional attributes table? You want "references" and "citations"? Give me a break! This is ASTROLOGY. It's all based on myth. Nothing in it is real, it is only tradition and for fun. I am going to keep it and revert your edits to the table. I worked too hard to keep the articles going. Now you come along and ruin all the work? I took out Lebanon, since it is a muslim country (though it has a HUGE christian population and is much more liberal and open than other muslim nations), but the others should stay. They were listed by a Chinese astrologer, why do you think you know better? I took out the "western equivalent sign" and "gemstone", however. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by VeronicaPR (talk • contribs) 21:03, 22 February 2007 (UTC).

Laowai
I just added a reference to this article, hope it's OK with you. I know it's not very Wikipedic to say this, but laowai is one of those words you learn to hate when you're in China...sigh. Anyway, I hope the article is OK as it stands now.--Niohe 23:53, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I just dropped a comment on the talk page. I guess we need to get start editing more articles, did you notice that Taiwan is assigned to the sheep? Well, you know what I think about the whole Taiwan problem, but this is absolutely priceless!


 * Oh, did you see the rant on the talk page about someone deleting celebrities by the way? Absolutely cracked me up...--Niohe 01:22, 23 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Hello again, I had a look at the discussion on whether it is pig or boar. I'm with you hundred per cent here. I don't know when people started to change pig into boar, it might be Japanese influence. All the while you have been arguing about boar/big, I have been trying to inject some skepticism about the utility of all these Chinese surname related features that have cropped up recently. This has provoked intense hostility in some quarters, and it sometimes feels like you are arguing with a religious sect. We might not end up agreeing on this, but I always appreciate your input. You might want to drop in at Right now most of the talk takes place at Talk:Yuan (surname), you can also have a look at Articles_for_deletion/List_of_common_Chinese_surnames.--Niohe 01:41, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Gwoyeu Romatzyh
Thanks for your input: please see Talk:Gwoyeu Romatzyh‎ for reply. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 15:00, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

PS Do you have any idea where I might get hold of a copyright-free photo of Yuen Ren Chao (Zhào Yuánrén)? We need one for both the article on Chao himself & the GR article (having Lin but not Chao is like Hamlet without the Prince). --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 15:14, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Surnames
Thanks for stopping by! I completely agree with you that this is very much a matter how we look at traditional Chinese sources. I'm a bit worried by the tendency to quote several hundred years old texts to make claims about Chinese history, without giving any thought about how to use historical sources. Somehow we have to have a single standard for this at Wikipedia and I'm a bit dissappointed by how touchy some people are when I ask some tough questions about the sources. Anyway, I would appreciate your input - whatever it may be - when you feel like making a statement.

Are you still editing the article on the Forbidden City. Last time I checked, it looked great. My only suggestion would be to move the Manchu name closer to the top of the names section, so we get the chronology of the names right.--Niohe 01:02, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Taiwanese American
Sumple, thanks for commenting on the Taiwanese American talk page. I do not think the issue is settled yet, so I rv it. I think this may seem like a small issue, but identity I think will touch many more articles so it is a good thing to discuss. Wenzi 08:23, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I think gangasta either knows absolutely nothing about Taiwan or is brain-damaged or something. Even ardent pan-greeners don't usually talk like this. Blueshirts 18:13, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Jung Chang and Jon Halliday claim that....
Forgive me if I've got you mixed up, but this seems to be one of your favourite phrases. Can you tell me why they're the only people whose views you identify like that? Or can I expect you to put the same in for every other source cited in the Mao article? John Smith&#39;s 00:09, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, but you're rather letting your own POV get the better of you if you do that in every case. Why not just say "it has been claimed"? John Smith&#39;s 00:19, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Because some readers (not as well versed in the academic squabble over the quality of the book) may take it the other way and think that they've been identified gives the claim an air of authority. John Smith&#39;s 00:25, 10 March 2007 (UTC)


 * To say only "it has been claimed" is to resort to weasle wording, which is not allowed. We should attribute who says what. This is esp. important given that the claims come from a source that is of disputable quality and controversial. I support Sumple's edits.Giovanni33 01:09, 10 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Stop wikistalking, Giovanni. Can't you find something better to do? All authors are attributed in the references. On the other hand I have never seen you attribute sources like Sumple does, so I think you're just saying this because he's not me. John Smith&#39;s 10:44, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/List of Chinese Americans
Just thought I'd suggest that you comment here, considering how much you seem to care about the article's contents. enochlau (talk) 02:39, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Talk:MTR
An interesting analysis of bias I haven't seen anyone do before... enochlau (talk) 01:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

"Socialist Republic"
One article may not support the claim of consensus, but your link doesn't even support the claim of a Socialist Republic. It says nothing about PR China being a republic. Why might that be? To quote from the Oxford American Dictionary: A republic is "a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch." Supreme power can't be held by the people when they can't freely vote to elect representatives.Penser 02:24, 18 March 2007 (UTC)Penser

Who's "we"?
So I take it then you won't mind if I spam all the positive reviews in from people like Roy Hattersley? He's not an academic, but he's a scholar. John Smith&#39;s 10:47, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I believed it was agreed through consensus - that is why there wasn't a single "newspaper review" in there. Giovanni and any other watching editors have no interest in using the talk page as I've already left messages there. So I would appreciate it if you could self-revert. Otherwise I'll have to revert later. Of course if you want to use the talk page then we can get a consensus - no point in talking to myself, is there? John Smith&#39;s 11:11, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Not true, I use the talk pages extensively and its far preferred over edit warring. You will notice that, in fact, I did use the talk page already when I noticed you had posted about this issue there. Thanks for doing that and please stop saying I have no interest in using the talk pages, which the farthest thing from the truth.Giovanni33 16:08, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Why didn't you use the talk page when I asked the question before you put the text up? John Smith&#39;s 16:16, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Chinese seal Copy ?
Hello Sumple,

Did you copy/paste some texte from www.ibiblio.org/chineseculture/ ? Because I find exactly the same sentence in : The ibiblio.org is in GNU, but I'm interesting to know who copied who ;] --Yug (talk)  22:43, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * http://www.ibiblio.org/chineseculture/contents/arts/p-arts-c01s04.html - which don't say he took the text from wikipedia
 * your edit
 * Umh, it's ok : I found out that he clearly BY-NC-SA_and_GNU copy wikipedia ;] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Yug (talk • contribs) 23:08, 19 March 2007 (UTC).

Falun Gong member
Hi. I thought you would want to visit my talk page, see the message ASDFG has sent me. I find it very funny. Just click on the "T" in my signature. Colipon+(T) 00:54, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

"Tracked down"
The article itself uses the word "find". So please explain why "found" is an unacceptable word to use. John Smith&#39;s 00:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

General comment
This is just saying hello basically. I noticed you contribute to Shanghai South Railway Station. I didn't think anyone else cared. But I was very impressed when i went there last year. I actually think it represents Chinese economic development. Colipon+(T) 07:53, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Let the records show
I'm being a lamearse and posting on my own talk page. Nevertheless, let the records show that I made a good-faith attempt to communicate with User:John Smith's, and he simply removed my comment:.

Henceforth User:John Smith's is persona non grata on my talk page and any comment left by him shall be deleted immediately. --Sumple (Talk) 10:14, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sumple, delete this comment if you wish. But everyone has the right to remove comments they don't want on their page. If you had asked me a question or made a point other than a complaint, I wouldn't have removed it. You're overreacting. John Smith&#39;s 10:18, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Clearly we have different understandings of talk page. To me, deleting someone's comment shows disrespect, which is why I do not delete from my talk page unless it is malicious vandalism. However, I respect your explanation of the deletion, and in return I ask you to respect the sentiments of my deleted comment. --Sumple (Talk) 10:24, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Done. Now maybe you would consider removing comments about Bgaulke being influenced by my "warped attacks" - that isn't editing in good faith, is it? Whatever dispute we have shouldn't suck in other people with accusations of X being influenced by Y. John Smith&#39;s 10:28, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. John Smith&#39;s 10:54, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * And thank you for this . --Sumple (Talk) 11:02, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Greetings. When you get a chance, can you take a look at the dispute currently going on at Mao: The Unknown Story. The page has been locked, and we are trying to get consensus to resolve the impase and get the page unlocked again. In order to do so, we need the regular editors involved to give their opinon. Thanks.Giovanni33 19:31, 27 March 2007 (UTC)