User talk:Sun Creator/Archive 10

two things
1. On Myrrha, the talk page kind of winks at me showing and then collapsing all the Project banners. Fix?

2. Can you somehow do a search for all usage of the workd "myrrha" in Linnaean usage? I got all the ones that had a wiki page (see article), but is there some way to search all animals like in one of your sources?


 * On to it, but it may not be possible. It's the way wiki renders it. Same with taxobox and why putting an image directly below them is not a good thing.
 * No guarantee this is all, but 12 results look like it would be useful for you. Catalogue of Life: 2010 Annual Checklist
 * Are you Canadian/Brit? Regards, SunCreator (talk) 13:44, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

1. Looks like you fixed it.

2. Interesting. Slew of butterflies. I wonder if it is the act of transformation? I gotta get the refs anyhow, so will be interesting to see their rational for the names.

3. Ha! :)

4. That talk page (Myrrha) talks about a request in for peer review, but the review was actually done. I don't mind people seeing the results of the review (I think it links to them somehow, I went there and read them), but is it possible to remove or change that template so that it is not talking future tense about something done? TCO (talk) 19:51, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The peer review has not closed yet, it will close automatically, not sure how. Maybe if there is no response or so many days since it started or something; when it's closed a bot will update the talk page wording.


 * 3. I can't help but read that with a David Attenborough accent in my head. ;-)  NYMFan69-86 (talk) 19:58, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Us Brits have a great accent. :) Regards, SunCreator (talk) 20:18, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Was he in The Great Escape? SunC could be him. NYM could be James Garner. I'd naturally be the Cooler King.TCO (talk) 02:02, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Chelydra serpentina ssp?
We must be looking at this page simultaneously. I just added a reference to the four species from the Reptile Database. I also found another reference that shows the ranges of the four subspecies. Why do you think there aren't any? What authority are you using? Looking at the various ranges I would be surprised that there were no subspecies. Cheers. Dger (talk) 00:35, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Added a source in the article and explained on the talk page. Open the pdf and have a look. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 00:37, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I will rewrite this part soon, to reflect the update. Funny thing, I was just looking at the document regarding the Chelydra genus but didn't look at the subspecies for C. serpentina. I was also working on a range map for the four subspecies. This will save me a lot of work. Dger (talk) 00:52, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Glad to have helping and pleased to hear you are working towards a map. Are you looking to improve the article majorly? A bunch of us at WP:TURTLES are looking to take about ten article to GA level by April. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 01:23, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Got disambig page?
Can you start a disambig page for us for Myrrha? We can work on fleshing it out with all the pages that use myrrha in name, but I don't know how to make the page to start with. See here:   TCO (talk) 03:07, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Myrrha (disambiguation) Regards, SunCreator (talk) 16:24, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Than kew! Every little bit makes it better!  TCO (talk) 19:13, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

You could open a store of these things
Thanks and congratulations; there is a little stash of them developing. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 18:28, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you! And the collection grows....NYMFan69-86 (talk) 18:34, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

one more act of conformity (talk page archiving)
I would like to go ahead and do talk page archving. I'm getting annoyed by how long my page is. the only thing is I would like to bring in all the old content. There was an admin who permabanned me. AFter I was gone for a few months, he just deleted all the old content (but I think it's in history.) So I want to dig all that out and then archive it all. I don't mind the ban notices in archives and really rather just have everything chrono. Thoughts?TCO (talk) 21:20, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

I still want to bring back all my old crap. and then put it all in order. And then archive. Not sure how to, really. TCO (talk) 22:29, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Isn't the old crap now in the archive? I went back over at least some. If there is more you could copy from history to top of archive. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 22:41, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

It might be. How cool would that be if you dug it all up. There was this guy Toddst who permabanned me. And then a few months went by and he deleted all the content on my page. I could find the one diff where he did it. And yeah, sticking it back in archives is best. Also, I would like (just for posterity, better than a diff) to have the stuff PresN deleted. The crimes are still covered up in archives, but I just feel better with all the messages in talk space, not diffs. TCO (talk) 22:48, 24 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the archiving. Can you stick this in the archives too?    Floqueuem my unban mentor said it was fine to bring it back.  It just got deleted while I was on permaban. TCO (talk) 23:09, 24 January 2011 (UTC)


 * done. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 23:28, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Awesome. Much appreciated! TCO (talk) 23:57, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

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Note to self
later. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 13:44, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
 * http://toolserver.org/~earwig/cgi-bin/copyvio.py Regards, SunCreator (talk) 10:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

An interesting comment...
...here. What do you think?--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 03:26, 26 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Given that all three are stubby, listy, it's "angels on the head of a pin". I would be fine letting anyone who is willing to do the hard labor of content compiling take there pick if more content should go at the higher level or the lower level.  Hint, hint.  MAybe that fellow can do some work.TCO (talk) 03:30, 26 January 2011 (UTC)


 * What it comes down to is if the two genera are very similar and are normally discussed in conjunction than content should be kept at higher level and don't make a disambig page.  If more content is at the lower level and the genera are different than the opposite.  Although even in that case, might want more of a summary article than a disambig.  I guess I'm working it through my brain to say I'm against making higher level groupings index pages only.  They may have some aspects of that.  But we should not make them only that.  We will lsoe if we do.TCO (talk) 03:33, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the problem boils down to articles being devoted to common names. We just fixed a similar problem with "Box turtle."  This is why I'm pushing for a source that lists common names: a pipe dream I guess, one of the turtle experts of our little band says there is no such thing out there (oh well).  I suppose the thing to do is create a disambig page, like with box turtle.  I don't know for sure though, maybe it's a different situation that merits a different course of action.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 03:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

A. First of all, they don't even agree on the Latinate names!

B. Common names is even worse. I think the best you can do is in some cases use common sense (like Box turtle for the NA genera). Ifit is too much of a mess, we should use the Latinate for genera and higher orders. I still think for species and subspecies, common is preferable (not for exactness but for compassion and outreach). In some cases the genera has a real common name. But in a lot of cases you could go Latinate. Or with even higher order stuff than genera. But I haven't really worked with it. Firing from the hip.

C. They're ain't no book of established common names. you need to use normal Wiki article naming common sense. What re the google rankgins, what do MOST papers use. Waht do state fish and game departments use for legal creel limits. Etc. Case by case, based on preponderance of usage. With redirects or disambigs or even in article discussions regarding ambiguities. TCO (talk) 03:57, 26 January 2011 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict)The TTWG Turtles of the world 2010 update lists common names. But it doesn't help much. Names are not unique and names for genus or families are not listed. But if there where, our two genus of mud turtles would be listed at mud turtles. So it matters little. Every species of these two generas are called something mud turtle, so it is somewhat clear what they are called. The case with the mud turtle is like the box turtle, you can either decide on a primary topic and then merge and hat the topics or convert the mudvturtle into an ambiguation page. It doesn't matter which way really. Regards, SunCreator (talk)
 * Alright, thanks for the quick feedback. I suppose it's up to us really, or at least up to the editor who wants to write those articles.  I see how it could be done either way.  Thanks again.  :-) NYMFan69-86 (talk) 04:20, 26 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I'd be very interested in letting that fellow have his way if he would go get the Ernst from the library and get cracking. ;-)  TCO (talk) 04:32, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Regarding this comment and your edit summary...concur. ;-) NYMFan69-86 (talk) 04:33, 26 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Maybe ask people who are constructively working with turtle article to join WP Turtles. This is rather good even if the editor has not yet got to the understanding of adding references. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 14:21, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

I think we need your org
Bonk me over the head if you were planning this already. but I think some page or part of the project page that held the "campain" would be motivational. That hot article obviously shows where work is getting done most by article. The list of key articles and workers makes use feel like a team and see the different things going on. And the overall ticker shows how we're progressing. TCO (talk) 21:50, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, was planning something, Not sure what yet, I'm also busy in real time until end of the month. Can you explain your ideas? You want a campaign page someplace? I'ts that WT:TURTLES? Regards, SunCreator (talk) 22:10, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

My advice is put it on the the project page. That's the "kitchen where we work". Portal is more shiny and for visitors (and gets less traffic as guests love the kitchen anyhow!) We already have the section with the "ticker" at 35%. Add your toolbar above or below and then add just copy over the list of who's working on what. I think it would make it seem a little more fellowship.TCO (talk) 00:13, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Have added to the project page, let me know what you think of that. It was added to the portal but not really for existing members more that it may encourage someone visiting the portal to get involved. Other then that it just looks pretty! ;) Regards, SunCreator (talk) 00:37, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Pleurodira
Well thanks for fixing the Pleurodira typo's that was a rush job with constant interruptions. I hopefully would have got them eventually. Have plans to expand it quite a lot. I guess I will then need to mirror it on the Cryptodira. Please let me know if there is anything you want included on that page. I have several images, map and of course refs planned, sections on Taxonomy to be expanded and zoo-geography to be added. Cheers, Faendalimas (talk) 00:48, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Part of the problem of a sub-order article is they are so rarely done that no one knows what should go in them. I'm thinking there would be some historical context about who/ how and when it came into being. Etymology of how the name came about. A basic overview cladogram(does not require everything). I will hunt about to see what else is covered in references. The more other references cover an aspect of a topic the more it would indicate that the article could include it also. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 02:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Dermatemydidae
Hi SunCreator, I have replied to your message on my talk page.-- Kev min  § 03:14, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

vague? :-)
I was torn on whether to rename the states (seems redundant) or restate them. Just edit and add the names if you want.TCO (talk) 22:41, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately I have no idea which three states it means so I cannot add them. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 22:46, 27 January 2011 (UTC) Actually I can work it out, but that is written really difficultly. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 22:48, 27 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I know what you are talking about. Feel free to rewrite to make it better.  I was really trying.TCO (talk) 23:01, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

state reptile talk page archiving
I tried copy and paste adding this to the page, but nothing shows (talk page). TCO (talk) 23:40, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Your recent edits
Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment. You could also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 02:23, 28 January 2011 (UTC)


 * hahahahaha! :-) TCO (talk) 02:45, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for pushing that list along
please feel free to make any changes or handle any of the tasks. I may get diverted to some non-wiki needs. Feel good knowing it is getting pushed along and done though!TCO (talk) 02:45, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

tagging Myrrha
1. We've already discussed the need for the citations in talk and it is something that will get done. Tagging the article is not telling us anything we don't know. Just defaces the article.

2. Could you please go find the references and add them (do the work) vice call out the defeciency (tell us to do work)? I can't make you. But it would be much more constructive.

Respectfully,

TCO (talk) 19:54, 28 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I suggest you make peace with tags, they are not destructive to an article they are constructive. They highlight things to the reader and potential editor alike. Trying to find nytimes article that is complementary of tagging. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 20:28, 28 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Moving comments to Talk:Myrrha Regards, SunCreator (talk)

Category:Famous tortoises
Hello. Why have you decided to remove all the members from Category:Famous tortoises? There doesn't seem to be any particular reason. Also, there is no reason why redirects cannot be in categories. I'm reverting your removals until you can provide a good reason for your edits.  McLerristarr &#124;  Mclay1  14:46, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Well some of them aren't famous and some of them aren't tortoises. Seems like over catorisation for 9 articles but up to you. How do you redirect a category? Regards, SunCreator (talk) 14:53, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, famous is subjective. To redirect a category, use Category redirect.  McLerristarr &#124;  Mclay1  15:05, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 January 2011
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archives for state reptile talk
Can you move the talk page archives over? Thanks!TCO (talk) 05:03, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Can you do the territories?
Do you mind doing searches on the US territories to see if any have a state reptile? Save the refs like you did the others. We will want to do a bundled "nb" style ref. (No need to bundle the "non" states, as we have "26" positively referenced. Still I'm glad we did it!)  TCO (talk) 09:09, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I already had a look at territories. I didn't find any official symbols. Some of the places like Baker Island has been uninhabited for decades, so they don't have a website. I found that the British Virgin Island have pages where they list the reptiles on the Island http://fw.dpnr.gov.vi/education/AndyWebPage/index.htm. The Puerto Rico pr.gov website is in Spanish and have been unable to find anything relevant, nothing relevant on http://americansamoa.gov or guam.gov either. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 15:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)


 * We'll just do "organized territories".  I will clarify the wording in article. That's just four of them.   Here is a ref showing that they have state flowers. . And I think I've read that PR had a state bird.  PR is the only one that worries me, but NYM can read the url for us. If we wanted to, we could compile  bunch of refs saying Baker Island is uninhabited and the like, but that's low value.TCO (talk) 18:15, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Nice link! guam.gov has an official language, tree, flower and bird but no reptile here Nothing on the others. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 18:59, 2 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I found a govt link on Guam as well, although maybe yours is better. http://ns.gov.gu/details.html  TCO (talk) 19:04, 2 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm finding out fair amount on the territories. I'm going to set up a short paragraph as the easiest way to handle discussion (there is some PR stuff going on).  Probably need some Spanish help from NYM (would prefer govt sites, but tough for me to search there).  I basically have enough to start building and we can put additional refs in or maybe change some out for better ones.  TCO (talk) 19:46, 2 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Cool. Be careful to use reliable sources and not claim anything that is not verifiable. It's rather tempting to say there is no official reptile of the territories but impossible to source. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 19:53, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Price Tag
The page you created was not notable and used a lot of WP:OR and failed to even have real critical reviews. I welcome you to edit the one in my userspace. -- ĈÞЯİŒ  1ооо  00:20, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi, that is your opinion. I was just adding references to show it's notability. BBC is a notable source. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 00:23, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It's not my opinion. Have you ever read WP:NSONGS? -- ĈÞЯİŒ  1ооо  00:31, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I even wrote and modifed some of it! Have you ever read WP:NOTVAND? Regards, SunCreator (talk) 00:35, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, true, I might have been a little rough marking it vandalism and I apologize, but "Price Tag" was obviously not notable. And no, the critics reviews came from blogs and wasn't even written like a correct critics reception section. In fact, all sources except BBC and iTunes were completely unreliable. "Habbo Forum?" Really? -- ĈÞЯİŒ  1ооо  00:39, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
 * To be honest I never read the stuff that is there and yes forums should be deleted, that is a different task to whether the topic notable. I was in the process of adding sources to show it's notability but I will leave it. In three days time there will be no disputing it. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 00:43, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, it will! I value your contributions and I ask if you could help me write my article with me. I would greatly appreciate if you could even give me any information on the matter. -- ĈÞЯİŒ  1ооо  00:46, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Given that my attempts at improving the article was classed as vandalism. I have better things to do. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 01:00, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I said that I was sorry and I made a hasty decision in classifying what your edits were. I was upset because I've already had to revert quite a few edits similar to yours and it's just been getting old. Do not take it to heart, I don't have a good temper. Please forgive me actions? -- ĈÞЯİŒ  1ооо  01:04, 4 February 2011 (UTC)


 * It's probably some of my shadiness wiping off on you, Sun. Be careful you don't fall into evil ways.TCO (talk) 01:05, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh not at all! :) I'm just very hot headed when it comes to things like this. Again SunCreator, I am extremely sorry for my hasty and rather dumb actions and I really want your help on improving the "Price Tag" article. You are not the first person for me to go off on like I did, and I doubt you will be the last. Sorry. -- ĈÞЯİŒ  1ооо  02:55, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Sadly editing an article where the history identifies me as a vandal is not my cup of tea. That's without getting into the continued distribution that contines on the article because editors are failing the D part of WP:BRD. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 03:45, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

It's a different scenario calling other edits to "Price Tag." The first time the user recreated the page I simply reverted it and said it was not notable. I then went to his talk page and said if he wanted to contribute to Price Tag he could go to the article in my user space. The second time it is considered vandalism, since he was completely aware that the article was against WP:NSONGS and that it should not be in the article space. -- ĈÞЯİŒ  1ооо  11:49, 4 February 2011 (UTC)


 * That is not the order of events. first you reverted the good faith edit as vandalism. Then you commented on the user page.
 * All credit to you for having restored the page since however. Note that my creation of the page didn't start until today (4th February) and within 12 hours, you can see that WP:NSONGS is met.
 * It was a reminder to me why working on songs is such hard work. As an industry insider I'm cursed with knowing half the articles in WP:SONGS contain factual errors, glaring obmission and WP:SYNTH type WP:OR :( Regards, SunCreator (talk) 20:14, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes it was the order of events. See that this edit happened before I marked the second edit by this user as vandalism. -- ĈÞЯİŒ  1ооо  21:35, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Telephone
Hello, I noticed that you added the template Dubious to the article Telephone (song), arguing that "[the article] still contain[ing] incorrect info and systematic American bias", but the template itself states that it "is not for flagging items that an editor simply thinks might be incorrect" and it also goes in this way [dubious - discuss], something you didn't do. I'm coming here to comment you that if you don't discuss sbout how its release date is "dubious", specially since it is sourced, I, or someone else, will remove the tag in the following days since the tag is for create a discussion, not for something that may be wrong. Tb hotch * ۩ ۞ 04:38, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, I have explained why it is incorrect on the talk page. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 04:56, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

TUSC

 * http://toolserver.org/~magnus/tusc.php?language=commons&project=wikimedia
 * b7fe9ef45134bf4606849fc6d44e0da2 Regards, SunCreator (talk) 20:35, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

DYK for U.S. state reptiles
— HJ Mitchell &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?   18:03, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

request to archive
Will you please move the "potential references" (very old) in the painted turtle talk page to archives? And teach me how, if it is tricky (I can look at the diff also).TCO (talk) 03:36, 6 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks!TCO (talk) 04:14, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Testudines
Hey SunCreator! Thanks for fixing the template I translated from this wiki. --Catalaalatac (talk) 12:50, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Your welcome. Updated with padding. ca:Plantilla Discussió:Navbox requires groupwidth same as to make section straight. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 13:52, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I saw it, but I'm nephast with templates (I just copy-pasted and adapted it). Thanks again! --Catalaalatac (talk) 00:21, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 7 February 2011
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Shapley-Folkman lemma
I made some edits to the lead, addressing TCO's comments. It shall be 2 weeks before I can resume intensive editing. Thanks again for your help. Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk) 16:12, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Rhodin is fine
I don't think there is any Rhodin disagreement. His list looks generally fine, but that's not the paper to use for citing range boundaries. It's really not on the topic of range, covers a lot of species, doesn't have the details of which parts of states, doesn't cite primary lit (and did not do own survey). It's a classification paper, not a range paper. But it's fine. You're reacting to that guy's map, but he's just geting the base template together. We'll get the boundaries nailed. Right now, our article text is more detailed or more correct than either our current article map or that new one that fellow threw together. And definitely stay involved, this is not any secret TCO plan to be unwiki. Feel free to participate!TCO (talk) 03:11, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
 * You'll be interested to know that Rhodin has the SouthernPT in Arizona. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 17:55, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I looked at it. See what you say.  It's a "classification paper", Sun, not a "range paper".  Yeah, they happen to have some state lists, but no details of where in AZ, no maps, no citations to primary literature of capture, etc.TCO (talk) 18:41, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
 * A search showed no reports of dorsalis in AZ. Also from AZ "Chrysemys picta bellii is 1of 4 subspecies in the Chrysemys picta complex, and the only subspecies that occurs in Arizona." TCO (talk) 18:54, 11 February 2011 (UTC)