User talk:Supermann/Archives/2021/October

Afghanistan discretionary sanctions notice
NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 22:52, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Welcome to the Months of African Cinema Global Contest!
Ýou can opt-out of this annual reminder from The Afrocine Project by removing your username from this list

October 2021
Great job on editing Vesper Lynd. The article looks great. Keep up the good work 🙌👏👌👍🤜🤛🎉🥇🏆🥂💯🎯🙏 ~ Dollyplay (talk) 17:03, 3 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Thank you so much for reaching consensus. I apologize if my tone sounded "accusatory," but you really could have just pointed out to me that this latest edit could have worked the very first time. Have a good rest of the weekend. Supermann (talk) 17:31, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Stephen Hogan (July 22)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Calliopejen1 was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Stephen Hogan and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Stephen Hogan, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "Db-g7" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
 * If you do not make any further changes to your draft, in 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
 * If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Stephen_Hogan Articles for creation help desk], on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Calliopejen1&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Stephen_Hogan reviewer's talk page] or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Calliopejen1 (talk) 23:32, 22 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Maybe it's my research skills or the paywall being too high, the most reliable sources that I can access do not seem to write about his background in a simplistic way. It's always about his performance instead of his education, growth, why he chose to be in this business, etc. So please indulge me to take a stab at what you requested. Hopefully, they help make the case that he is notable enought. Obviously, I am not aruging he is Tom Cruise.
 * 1) Source #9 on audiobook: "AudioFile, Discover the World of Audiobooks". AudioFile Magazine. Retrieved 2021-07-24. The magazine granted him the coveted Earphone Awards twice, lavishing their praise in the following words that I presume I shouldn't repeat in the body of the page
 * a) "...Narrator Stephen Hogan's performance of the twists and turns of Cyril's struggle is dramatic, life affirming, and inspiring. Hogan's pleasing Irish lilt shifts appropriately as he portrays the accents and diction of the upper- and lower-class characters. Hogan shines as he uses his gifted voice to recount Cyril's maturation into an intelligent and caring man. It's a coming-of-age tale delivered by Hogan in a sensitive narration. Listeners looking for both hearty laughs and gentle tears will enjoy Cyril's journey. R.O. Winner of AudioFile Earphones Award © AudioFile 2017."
 * b) "....Stephen Hogan's performance of this complex plot, filled with characters of many nationalities, is outstanding. His accents, mainly Chinese, are authentic, and he displays with conviction the wide range of emotions that permeate the story. About a third of the way through the book, listeners may find it helpful to go back to the prologue in order to follow the plot more coherently, but the need to do that does not lessen the excitement of this superbly narrated thriller. S.S.R. Winner of AudioFile Earphones Award © AudioFile 2009."
 * 2) Source #47 on A Doll's House: Scott, Robert Dawson (March 22, 2004). "A Doll's House". The Times. p. 15. Here Stephen played the LEAD role, a fact that I didn't appreciate until Bonadea pointed out. It is reported that, "Newly appointed bank manager Torvald is brought to life in a beautifully judged performance by Stephen Hogan. Far from the pompous prig he sometimes seems, this is a handsome, almost dashing, Torvald, if anything quite affectionate to his "little squirrel" of a wife, Nora."
 * 3) Source #15 on his LEAD role performance in Starship Trooper 3: Leydon, Joe (Aug 18, 2008). "Film Reviews: "Starship Troopers 3: Marauder". Variety. 412 (1). p. 23. Film critic Joe Leydon wrote for Variety, "Omar Anoke, the heroic sky marshal in charge of battling the big bugs, is a charismatic celebrity and chart-topping singer whose onstage movements and militaristic song list suggest Adolf Hitler as an "American Idol" contestant.
 * Many thanks. Supermann (talk) 19:02, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
 * is the new rejection for real? I don't see any comments from you. Most of the 's requests have been addressed, incl. the missing page numbers of non-free newspaper sources, other than the so-called deprecated sources that they could just go ahead and delete, if they don't want to see them anymore. Everything else is verifiable. Where is any sign of camaraderie? Why does this world have to be so cruel and unfair? Cite all the things you want to cite to reject me. It doesn't make sense! The WP:THREE you requested is right up here. Thanks. Supermann (talk) 16:31, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
 * No, it is not a joke, but it is also not a rejection (a rejection means that the draft will not be considered further, a decline means that it can be considered further if the issues are addressed.)
 * Missing page numbers was a very small, albeit important, part of what was lacking. As for "so-called deprecated sources", that remark rather highlights the problem: you have not read the comments, or not understood them. You actually added a deprecated source after being alerted to the fact that they should be removed, and used a weird edit summary mentioning "self-published". I removed that one to help you out a bit, and also removed one of the three press release copies – your comment here shows that you hadn't actually read the sources you added, since it is impossible to miss the fact that this, this, and this is the same press release. You also seem to have missed (or ignored) the fact that deprecated sources (nothing "so-called" about them) were just one aspect of the source issues. Arguing that the reviewer ought to go through the draft to remove all sales sites, non-reliable sources, and deprecated or otherwise inappropriate sources is a non-starter – it is a major undertaking and not something to dismiss with a "the reviewer ought to do that". Please re-read CiphriusKane's detailed and insightful comments above.  There are several specific sources they discussed there, which are still in the draft.
 * You also have clearly not read, or not understood, the repeated requests to add information about the productions in the theatre section (and also the radio/audio section – that has not been specifically mentioned, but the same issue applies there for a couple of the entries.) Surely, our readers are not expected to believe that Hogan appeared in the original productions of The Playboy of the Western World, Hamlet, Ett Dukkehjem, and Medea? Adding citations to reviews is not the same thing as adding information about the productions to the article. To spell it out, again: apart from the fact that it is not helpful to the reader to list a role with zero info about the production, a major role in a notable play is only relevant to an actor's notability per WP:NACTOR if the production is a major one. A school production is not notable unless written about extensively, a production on a national stage is clearly notable, and most productions fall somewhere in between. (As an aside, your claim above that Torvald is the lead role in A Doll's House is not correct, as also seen in the reviews you have referred to. There is one lead role in the play, and that is Nora; her husband doesn't appear on stage very often, but given the theme of the play those appearances are important, so that role is definitely one of the main ones, just not the lead.)
 * Finally, about WP:THREE – it looks like you interpreted "the talk page" as your user talk page, which is fair enough, but you need to add this to the draft's talk page. An AfC reviewer won't search your user talk page for that info. --bonadea contributions talk 09:49, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks! . Please see my responses below.
 * 1) I believe had taken the time and effort to really help remove the deprecated sources and improve the writing. I am immensely grateful. That's the kind of camaraderie I was looking for. I know I am too close to the writing and citation and it's really hard for me to kill my babies. So somebody else has to do it to help me appreciate your dislikings against those sources, despite I don't think they are controversial for this kind of topic. I have not added anything deprecated since his edits and will take to my heart to not use any such sources by comparing against the naughty list.
 * 2) I am not familiar with the theater productions since I haven't got the chance to see any. I don't live in England or Ireland. I had to rely on local lousy reporting that haven't been in-depth about them. In my new WP:Three, I have taken the Torvald out for now, but given the sources have mentioned where the play were conducted, i.e. big theater names, I would presume the productions are big enough instead of school plays. I look forward to seeing movie adaptations of these famous plays.
 * 3) I have added to the draft's talk page for the revised WP: THREE. Two of which concentrate on his movie lead roles written by critics that have their own Wikipedia page. His movie roles are what motivated me to write about him in the first place.
 * I appreciate highly for your time. Supermann (talk) 21:02, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Not sure what did down below by rejecting one more time without seeing WP:THREE on draft's talk page. But to answer back to 's question on Torvald. In a possible citation spam victim, Mark Fisher indicated that "A Doll's House" was played at Perth Theatre. That's clearer than how Robert Dawson Scott put it. Let's sink that in for a moment and appreciate the production, even though I haven't been there. Thanks. Supermann (talk) 22:06, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The (latest) issue is the repeated lack of context for the roles. The draft has been submitted five times in the past week with little attempt to contextualise the performances or understand the issues beyond "add more sources". The reason why the performances need to be contextualised is because it determines the level of notability.  Playing Oliver in a school play is a lot less notable than playing Oliver at Hammersmith Apollo Again, I'd urge ye to look at David Tennant and see how it gives context to the performances.  Unless if there's significant work done on the article, any further review submissions are just a waste of time, hence the rejection.  Also, if the "well-known and significant award or honor" is the Earphone Awards, it's actually non-notable as, if this month's awards are any indication, 500-600 of these awards are given out per year and is basically "Editor's top picks".  If he'd won an Audie, then it'd be different CiphriusKane (talk) 23:11, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comments. I totally understand the need for contextualizing, but I don't see how paraphrasing the sources one more time helps much and how David Tennant's context help me recognize him at all until I saw the list of awards he has had. As an American, I fail to recognize most of the awards he got nominated or won. To me, they are less well known than Oscars, Emmys, Golden Globes. But enough about diminishing him and being American-centric. The American awards have their own issues with number of viewers going down each following year. Speaking of American centric, the Audie awards are sponsored by Audio Publishers Association and sometimes promoted as "the Oscars of the audiobook industry" by Audio File Magazine who is a sponsor to APA per https://www.audiopub.org/industry/sponsors and gives out its own Earphone Awards for "truly exceptional titles that excel in narrative voice and style, characterizations, suitability to audio, and enhancement of the text" that Stephen won. That should put it somewhere near the big league. I didn't see how WP:NACTOR mentioning any examples of awards. Until you told me, I have never heard of the Audie Award. And then I saw Stephen_Hagan_(actor). WOW! This guy has a page and Hogan doesn't? How is that fair? In Kingdom of Dust: Beheading of Adam Smith, Justin Richards wrote that, "...most of the drama revolving around the lead character...sinks or swims depending on Hogan’s performance." Imagine yourself playing a role which got beheaded by Islamic terrorists and how about letting that sink in for a moment before you trash him? None of the plays I listed were school plays. They are mostly done in big theaters such as "Abbey Theatre and Gate Theatre in Dublin and the Royal National Theatre in London, even though I haven't watched any. I can type out the theater names if that are helpful. Supermann (talk) 00:22, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I have contextualized his theatrical lead role performances now - the direction that and  want to see. I beg you to take one more look. Appreciate it. Supermann (talk) 04:12, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
 * So and ...still no further comments, despite the new edits to add nuance to his stage performance? Thanks. Supermann (talk) 03:22, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Nomination of Stephen Hogan for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Stephen Hogan is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Stephen Hogan until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.  DGG ( talk ) 02:31, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

The Battle at Lake Changjin
Please read wp:brd and stop your edit warring. The policy clearly says if edits have been reverted then the next step is to discuss them on the talk page without restoring those changes back. Estnot (talk) 00:48, 31 October 2021 (UTC)