User talk:SurveyorMJF/Archive 1

June 2016
Hello, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. This is just a note to let you know that I've moved the draft that you were working on to Draft:Thomas Flanagan (gold prospector), from its old location at User:SurveyorMJF/sandbox/Thomas Flanagan (gold prospector). This has been done because the Draft namespace is the preferred location for Articles for Creation submissions. Please feel free to continue to work on it there. If you have any questions about this, you are welcome to ask me on my talk page. Thank you.  Anarchyte  ( work  &#124;  talk )   09:45, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Thomas Flanagan (prospector) has been accepted
 Thomas Flanagan (prospector), which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created. The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article. You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. . Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia! MatthewVanitas (talk) 16:20, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
 * If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the  [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_talk/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Thomas_Flanagan_(prospector) help desk] .
 * If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider.

License tagging for File:1988 Paddy Hannan in the County Clare Library.jpg
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Talkback
Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. When you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion (but never when editing articles), please be sure to sign your posts. There are two ways to do this. Either: This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is necessary to allow other editors to easily see who wrote what and when.
 * 1) Add four tildes  ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment; or
 * 2) With the cursor positioned at the end of your comment, click on the signature button (Insert-signature.png or Signature icon.png) located above the edit window.

Thank you. ww2censor (talk) 10:46, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Welcome
G'day SurveyorMJF, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions; they have helped improve Wikipedia and made it more informative. I hope you enjoy using Wikipedia and decide to make additional contributions. Some resources to help new Wikipedians include:


 * How to edit a page
 * Editing tutorial
 * Picture tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Article titles
 * Manual of Style

As a contributor to Australian articles, you may like to connect with other Australian Wikipedians through the Australian Wikipedians' notice board and take a look at the activities in WikiProject Australia and associated sub-projects. Wikimedia Australia your local chapter organises editor training workshops, meetups and other events. If you would like to know more, email [mailto:help@wikimedia.org.au?subject=Help+me+please!&body=Please+tell+us+your+Wikipedia+username+and+the+article+you+are+trying+to+change+and+what+the+problem+is help@wikimedia.org.au].

If you are living in Australia and want to subscribe to location based notices, you can add location userboxes to your userpage.

Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ~ ; this will automatically produce your name and the date.

If you have any questions, please see Where to ask a question, try the Help desk, or ask me on my talk page. Or you can just type   on this page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Thank you for signing up! JarrahTree 01:22, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Some issues
Welcome, and hope you are enjoying editing...

It is really really good to have what appears to be a Kalgoorlie based editor do such fine work!

A few small points that teahouse/curation might not have any specifics about, but if you are editing re wa things


 * WP:SEAOFBLUE - overlinking - when you have made a link for Kalgoorlie once,


 * citing - where claims are made about something - WP:RS are always better than fewer - whole paras with no sign of where the info came from can be a problem


 * WP:TONE - Tone - your text is really great and readable - but please remember this is an online encyclopedia and not a blog or tourist guide - there might be a few words and turns of phrase we tend not to include

There are other small things, but, in the end, watch carefully what other editors might do to the article - never take it personally, but watch, and learn!

Thank you again for such well formed articles !!! JarrahTree 01:33, 24 July 2016 (UTC)


 * The other thing is that when communicated with on wp en - as it is basically a collaborative learning project for all, lone editing with silence in relation to talk page items or other means of communicating - can be taken as not wanting to be involved or even wanting to ignore comments. It is always worth the simplest of replies/dialogues - this is important if someone takes issue with style of editing where demands are made to change something, silent eds are usually taken as being not wanting to be part of the process and more likely to be prejudiced against when a serious issue arises.  Just a thought about that.  But hey, we have eds who quietly plod on in western australian and editing editing space who never really want to have anything to do with other editors, that is their perogative, but when things happen, a track record on a talk page is one way others judge another editor, as in reality there is so little to go by.  but if you are socially outgoing and want to meet other perth based editors - we have the most active group in the country! no harm if you dont want to. cheers JarrahTree 07:28, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Answer from SurveyorMJF:

Is this the way to reply?

Thanks for the tips. The Hannan page was started by someone else. Now I'm trying to enhance it. The Flanagan page is my own work, and is ongoing.

Cheers.SurveyorMJF (talk) 07:41, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Spot on reply - and the articles are looking really really good thanks for your work, thanks for your reply. Just wanted to make sure you realise that we are friendly with new users, it is all a bit of a learning curve. cheers JarrahTree 07:59, 24 July 2016 (UTC)


 * You must be careful with encyclopediac language - the lead para of the just uploaded needs a closer look at re the tone. Also, well worth editing things other than your own family tree, otherwise it will look like youre doing geneaology of your ancestors as a WP:SPA, which raises questions as to the WP:Notability of each memeber of the tree, if they are so without pushing the WP:RS that is ok, cheers JarrahTree 10:25, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Our local user
Who is in Perth and is up with WP:FOP and WP:COPYRIGHT is User:Gnangarra - well worth asking him re context of both JarrahTree 01:04, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Response: OK, thanks.SurveyorMJF (talk) 02:27, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

July 2016
Hello, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. This is just a note to let you know that I've moved the draft that you were working on to Draft:Michael John Flannigan, from its old location at User:SurveyorMJF/sandbox. This has been done because the Draft namespace is the preferred location for Articles for Creation submissions. Please feel free to continue to work on it there. If you have any questions about this, you are welcome to ask me on my talk page. Thank you. Daniel kenneth (talk) 12:10, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Response from SurveyorMJF: Thank you. I could not figure out how to move it from the sandbox to the draft space. Can you direct me to where the instructions are? Thanks again.SurveyorMJF (talk) 20:58, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Later: Aha! I'm OK now. I have found the help page - WP:HUD. Thanks. SurveyorMJF (talk) 21:27, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Michael John Flannigan has been accepted
 Michael John Flannigan, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created. The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article. You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. . Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia! SwisterTwister  talk  06:45, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
 * If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the  [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_talk/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Michael_John_Flannigan help desk] .
 * If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider.

OK. Thanks. SurveyorMJF (talk) 07:26, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

query
Query from SurveyorMJF:

Just need a little help, please, for 2 things.

1. The person named Yarra Tree has pointed out that the first photo in my new article on Michael John Flanagan (2016 Lake Flannigan Sign.jpg) was lacking a source, and other details. I checked but could not see any evidence of the problem. Nevertheless, I have replaced the photo and all the details. I hope that it is OK now.

2. What does em30 mean, after the Reflist command? Again, I've tried to find out for myself, but cannot track it down.

Thanks. SurveyorMJF (talk) 02:32, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

reply
Please, I am not a person named Yarra Tree - it is a pseudonym, I am named User:JarrahTree on wikipedia, in real life, I can reassure my real name is very different

I am not sure whether I left a message about a photo.

Reflist (30em) is about making the references capable of being readable in various format, some editors use reflist 2. I had it explained to me that in some formats it makes the references easier to read.

If you have queries you need to address to other editors, please,
 * 1) go to their talk page -
 * 2) go to edit - to 'enter' the edit mode
 * 3) go to the bottom of the page
 * 4) create a new heading relative to your query or problem
 * 5) type/leave a message
 * 6) remember to WP:SIGN at the end of the message
 * 7) before saving - put something into 'edit summary'
 * 8) save page

In many cases editors (eds) who send or leave messages about new page curation know nothing about the subject or context of the article you have written, and are looking at page curation from a generic mode - local knowledge for Australian or Western Australian contexts are better sought by leaving messages at project talk pages - but warning - some have a very low level of response... or unhelpful responses. For example: -
 * Western Australia = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Western_Australia

Best of luck

JarrahTree 08:45, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Great. Thank you.SurveyorMJF (talk) 09:12, 4 August 2016 (UTC)


 * No problems - and what you have done - many editors actually insist on staying on their own talk pages and having conversations with others on their own page to be able to keep track, so there is nothing to say you have to go to anothers talk page if they are following the conversation on yours. If you follow me.


 * Also format on talk pages can be difficult to follow - my usage of the three equals sign above is to create a 'sub' title - very few if any cnversations are like that.


 * In many cases eds are fixated about format - fmt


 * falling inward to be able to keep track of where conversations start and begin


 * and where your user page is your user page and others are not meant to interferer with


 * some will re-arrange things on a talk page to create a readable format JarrahTree 09:57, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

File:Plaque by Tree Kalgoorlie.jpg listed for discussion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Plaque by Tree Kalgoorlie.jpg, has been listed at Files for discussion. Please see the to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. ATTENTION : This is an automated, bot-generated message. This bot DID NOT nominate any file(s) for deletion; please refer to the page history of each individual file for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 23:50, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

Hello
You put hard work into two pages, and this am blanked with no summary, whats the problem ? JarrahTree 00:31, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi Jarrah Tree,

Thanks for getting in touch.

It has been a heartbreaking 24 hours.

Yesterday and today I received numerous email messages from Wiki that most of my photos have been deleted. I did not know why. They all comply fully with Wikipedia policy. I spent a fortune travelling across Australia to get my own photos for Wikipedia, so that there would not be copyright issues. And you are right, I've put about 12 months' hard work into my research and into learning how to present it in Wikipedia.

When I contacted User RHaworth (Roger W Haworth) to ask why he had deleted one of my photos, he gave me the brush-off, simply referring me to Wikipedia policy. That's insulting and very unhelpful. If someone does something as hurtful as deleting another person's work, that person is surely entitled to a clear explanation?

Otherwise any editor can compromise my work, destroy it even, and I have no right of appeal.

Luckily, another kind editor Magog the Ogre, also replied to me about the deletions that he/she made, and explained that some photos have been moved to the Commons, which is why they've been deleted from their previous place.

And I see that you have restored my texts. Thank you. I've been really sad all day.

Cheers, SurveyorMJF (talk) 02:49, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

one rule

 * any one editor on this horrible monster is in most cases never enough, always look for second opinions where possible.
 * the other is always look for people who are prepared to explain.
 * ok more than three here - always try to upload to commons, not here
 * never get sad about here - it is like the real world, ups, downs - but never get sad!! the real world has much more sadder things going on out there. JarrahTree 03:09, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Reply: Thanks for your response, Jarrah Tree.

I do not know WHERE to even START to "look for a second opinion" as you suggest. And I have tried all over the Wiki. I'm not a stupid person - have three university degrees including a Masters in IT, but Wikipedia is not logical and it is often incomprehensible, and I just do not know where to turn for help. Surely I'm not the only one.

1. RHaworth is so intent on bumping up his statistics for deletions etc., which he displays on his wiki page, that he doesn't have time to explain his actions to his victims. He is doing more harm than good. Management should review his usefulness to the Wiki Community.

He has actually deleted my photo, and he refuses to say why. So I cannot tell what to correct in order to ensure that whatever I replace it with will not also be deleted by him.

2. The automatically generated message (that a photo had been deleted) needs updating, so that it tells the owner that the photo has been moved to the Commons (when that is the case). Then people like me will not be alarmed, and not want to withdraw their work and close their Wiki accounts.

Have fun, over there in the West.SurveyorMJF (talk) 05:43, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

ok
At least the sun is shining in the west.

OK - when perplexed - first dont vent too much or specifically about others on wiki - the whole of wiki is googleable, and when we are long gone, if google still exists - there will be the traces of all our experiences still plain to see. If there are people you trust/have had positive things with - try to see if they can discuss it either on your or their talk pages, or if there is no sign of recent activity ( I know of 2 I'd like to chat with they havent edited for over a month with no explanation why) - try emailing if they have sign of being contacted that way.. oops have to deal with something - more later JarrahTree 05:54, 9 October 2016 (UTC)


 * actually I am tinkering - will try to give comprehendable response later JarrahTree 06:13, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Reply
I wrote a reply a few minutes ago, but I can't see it now. So I'll repeat it, but I apologies if this turns out to be a duplicate. I said in the previous message: Thanks, I get it. No need for further talk on this - I'm over it completely. Bye for now. SurveyorMJF (talk) 20:11, 9 October 2016 (UTC)


 * but please stay on - we need editors who have a sense f doing things well - there are so few - sorry about me I am almost permanently distracted by a number of things JarrahTree 23:38, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Are you there, Jarrah Tree? I want to ask you how to move my latest sandbox article to the mainspace. I've found the MOVE tab, but I'm not sure what to enter in the boxes there. SurveyorMJF (talk) 07:46, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Same day, a little later. Aha, I've managed to move my draft. So panic over. Bye for now. SurveyorMJF (talk) 09:29, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Ignore message re Advice please?
Hello again, Jarrah Tree. Do you know whether the wiki template for indenting a quotation has been changed or removed? I used it a while ago, and it was great. But now I just get red (as in link to non-existent page). Thanks, SurveyorMJF (talk) 06:30, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

Aha, I have found the Wiki template for Block Quote and that seems to do the trick. All is good. SurveyorMJF (talk) 21:50, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Help me! Need review for my new article
I just moved my third new article (entitled William Nevin Tatlow Hurst) into the mainspace.

An automatic template appeared at the top of the article, saying that I need to get it reviewed. But I do not know how to make contact with another editor, to ask for a review.

If I put a request on my own talk page, will someone else see it??

Thank you.

SurveyorMJF (talk) 20:31, 16 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Removed. SwisterTwister   talk  20:54, 16 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Sorry to be dumb, but what has been "removed"? The template is still there ... SurveyorMJF (talk) 01:42, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Help me! Template still there
Please help me to understand why the "unreviewed" template is still showing up on my article William Nevin Tatlow Hurst, when the editor Swister Twister, has stated that it has been removed.

Thanks heaps.

SurveyorMJF (talk) 20:28, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Mainly because SwisterTwister didn't actually remove the template. Personally, I wouldn't worry about the template - a reviewer will take a look at the page in due time and remove it. Primefac (talk) 20:58, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Minor edits
Hey, just a thought/request/note - when you make relatively big changes like this, it's best not to mark them as minor edits. Obviously for little changes it's fine, but in general you should avoid marking all of your edits as minor. Thanks!

By the way, the article is looking a lot better than when I patrolled it yesterday. Still work to be done, but it's lookin' good! Primefac (talk) 02:28, 19 March 2017 (UTC)


 * It is finished now.  What work do you think is still to be done?
 * SurveyorMJF (talk) 02:33, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Just little things, like the 12-reference CITEKILL at William Nevin Tatlow Hurst. Primefac (talk) 02:45, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much Primefac, you helped me to create a good page, and I'm already getting great feedback from readers. You and Jarrah Tree are just The Best. SurveyorMJF (talk) 08:26, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Delete old sandbox files?
Please help. What is the correct way to delete old sandbox files, after the article has been successfully moved to mainspace? SurveyorMJF (talk) 22:49, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Just place db-g7 on the pages and they'll be deleted. Primefac (talk) 23:48, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you, much obliged.  SurveyorMJF (talk) 19:36, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Offer to help in WikiProject Australia
I'd like to offer to help in WikiProject Australia. Who should I talk to about what to do to be most helpful? SurveyorMJF (talk) 01:15, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
 * WP:AWNB would be a good place to start. Primefac (talk) 01:19, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Primefac. Done that now.  SurveyorMJF (talk) 08:05, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

That was one way to respond
As I said earlier - there is always more way than one editors version, usually.

If you have been editing on things to do with Tasmania, Western Australia - there are always tasks at the specific projects.

Keeping assessment tables up to scratch is always helpful as so few editors seem to have any interest...

Problem with guiding through the issues is eds can dump too much information and text on you, or not enough.

The way to go is to find what task suits your interest.

Think of it this way - you have been editing articles - what part of an article interests you the most:


 * fixing references
 * finding references
 * finding categories
 * fixing talk pages - projects
 * project assessment
 * article assessment

The differences - repetitive tasks, or individual problem solving issues

Always beware of dumped advice in the form of templates or short answers, and the converse - too much text.

It takes time to discriminate things - if you can identify which of the above appeals to you - respond here,

and we can determine ways to go - no rush, and it can be very fulfilling once you find the area you are interested in.

Cheers for the moment JarrahTree 02:38, 9 April 2017 (UTC)


 * HI there JarrahTree, I'd like to start gently, with the less contentious types of issues. So, fixing or finding references would be good at first.  SurveyorMJF (talk) 07:59, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
 * BTW, Although I've written about Tassie and WA, I'm interested in all Australian states. SurveyorMJF (talk) 08:03, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Also by the way, last weekend I attempted to sort out one article that is on the Australia Project ToDo list, the Ballarat Reform League article (BRL). I left a detailed message on the talk page.  When you get time, JarrahTree, could you look at my message on the BRL talk page, and tell me if it is OK, or a better way to go.  Many thanks.  SurveyorMJF (talk) 20:24, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

One big problem for the oz project (please understand there is no 'centre' or organising committee - it is a very smelly black hole

that is situated in ever reducing numbers at the AWNB

The Australian project does have contentious areas, so yes I understand you want a gentle start!! You have to realise that many articles have very low active 'other editors' actually watching In fact some editors deliberately keep their watch lists low by editing and reducing

BTW To the Project Committee - if only - the oz project is a vast collection of very random cats with no central order to it, believe me.

Then - you are so delightfully formal - few editors have time or patience to do something like that.

Basically the level of reasoning and explanation is fine.

At any article you go to the pull down history (view history) at the top - and you can find how many have looked and when..


 * External tools:
 * Revision history statistics
 * Revision history search
 * Edits by user
 * Number of watchers
 * Page view statistics
 * Fix dead links

https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&range=latest-20&pages=Talk:Ballarat_Reform_League

The thing is, many articles have low level watching numbers, actual hits, and are relatively low level on the radar

This then brings the decision into the factor - which noticeboard to get some traction for others to look and agree with a move

Here you can find the behaviour of the few cats who actually come to the particular water hole, or not...

oops I have to jump off for a while - no real solution or task or explanation yet - hopefully more soon... JarrahTree 00:15, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for giving me so much of your time - I know you're v.v. busy. I'll use the Ballarat Ref League article to try out your advice, such as: 1. "Keeping assessment tables up to scratch" and 2. "which noticeboard to get some traction for others to look and agree with a move".  (Pity, about there being no committee ... joking: black holes are not smelly, they're exquisitely pure - refer S. Hawking)    SurveyorMJF (talk) 02:52, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * sorry hawking, the backside of wikipedia is putrescent JarrahTree 07:15, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Hahaha. Someone give that editor a barnstar. SurveyorMJF (talk) 07:36, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

ok
probably the best way forward is to go into things by reverse engineering - find a subject/article you are interested in - and open in edit mode, and see what makes it what it is - the markup items, and the components on both sides - main page and talk page - that gives you an idea how it 'works'... Then go to an article in the same category it is placed - and see if you can find another article that needs improving.. maybe more references, maybe tidying up grammar or spelling, or other things again... JarrahTree 09:50, 10 April 2017 (UTC) There is another again - check out what I have done in my edits in the last few days - or anyones for that matter - go in examine the hist details - see what we do, to try to keep the encyclopedia tidy/up to date/fixed - no need for PPE, fixed masks, or antibiotic sprays... just neoprene gloves only, probably - as you prise the edits and examine the details... JarrahTree 15:02, 10 April 2017 (UTC)