User talk:SusanLesch/Archives/2018/June

Niacin dietary recommendations
Thanks for doing this for niacin, copying the table style I started for vitamin D. I wanted to have the data listed down the side, without big blocks interrupting the flow of text -- as it is rather dry, especially where different countries vary only slightly. Maybe you could stack them as we did for vitamin D. Also  is trying to get a more uniform order in nutrient articles. I think dietary or other recommendations should come early but see vitamin C for his structure. Jrfw51 (talk) 10:10, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * SusanLesch - I have started a discussion at Niacin on how to best address presenting dietary recommendations when there is disagreement among countries. David notMD (talk) 13:19, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, Jrfw51 and David notMD. Thank you for responding to my edit summary's cry for help. I will try to send you a proper response by today after noon US Pacific time. -SusanLesch (talk) 14:47, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * My bias is toward a narrative that is not daunting to a non-scientist reader, yet makes clear that countries are not necessarily in agreement on recommended intakes or upper limits. I feel that multiple tables is too much. I will point out that the content for Vitamin D is closer to what you have created for niacin, albeit stacked vertically rather then across page. David notMD (talk) 15:05, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, David notMD and Jrfw51.
 * First, I read the GA2 discussion for vitamin C. Well done, David, and congratulations on GA! Sorry I hadn't realized that was going on. Second, I agree that Wikipedia's audience is primarily non-scientists. Third, the tables were indeed getting out of hand.
 * Two proposals for you gentlemen. 1) Can you see a WikiProject Nutrition? 2) Can you see an Infobox nutrient? An RDA/UL chart could be part of the bottom.
 * I'm guessing a bit here, but think all the vitamins and minerals on the WHO Model List of Essential Medicines are in infoboxes for drugs, which is potentially a mistake. (Niacin is in a chembox.) We can create an infobox nutrient that is compatible with WHO's medicines and the other WikiProjects. I feel the essential nutrients deserve a little better treatment than they have now.
 * My bias: I believe that with a few exceptions people should get their nutrients from food and not from dietary supplements. I have a COI when my professors are involved in the literature. -SusanLesch (talk) 19:21, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * My COI is that, as stated on my User page and several article Talk pages, I am a science consultant to dietary supplement companies. None of my clients have ever asked me to edit Wikipedia and none (to my knowledge) know that I am an editor. I think if we all tread carefully - and transparently - we can keep this to the benefit of Wikipedia. I'd like to hear from Doc James on this, though. David notMD (talk) 20:26, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I could see both of these proposals being beneficial but would have little time to work on them myself. Jrfw51 (talk) 20:41, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, waiting for Doc James to get back online. David, it sounds like we balanced out our biases.😃 -SusanLesch (talk) 23:33, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I am sort of here. What do you propose the "infobox nutrition" would contain? The essential nutrients are often both important dietary components as well as important medicines. Chemicals are a broader category.
 * The RDA are fairly technical and as such IMO belong lower in the article. Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 14:09, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

can you please tell me why iron is not on the WHO list of essential medicines? Also do you know why iron and zinc, for example, have custom infoboxes? I guess we are talking about a maximum of about 80 articles. Something like water or dietary fiber doesn't have any infobox. Protein and lipid are both GAs and without infoboxes. Looking quickly, every vitamin source I have gives the following information on each. Among those, Infobox drug already has metabolism, excretion, synonyms, bioavailability. It also may be that existing infoboxes could simply add a field for "essential nutrient". -SusanLesch (talk) 17:20, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * scientific and common names
 * dietary sources
 * digestion, absorption and inhibitors, transport, storage
 * metabolism, excretion
 * function or role
 * assessment of nutriture
 * deficiency and toxicity symptoms/diseases
 * prevalence of each
 * RDA/RDI/UL
 * Ferrous salt is on the WHO list. The special infoboxes are for elements. We could add a number of these to the "infobox drug" which would be easier than creating a new infobox.  Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 17:49, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Every element has its own box, as it should be. We're only humans making use of them, probably temporarily. -SusanLesch (talk) 18:55, 22 June 2018 (UTC)