User talk:Suzzyroche

Welcome!
Hello, Suzzyroche, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome! -- NawlinWiki (talk) 15:23, 11 July 2012 (UTC) (volunteer administrator)
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Re Suzzy Roche
Re Suzzy Roche - if this is you, we are glad to have you edit the page - but this is a neutral reference work and the page about you should not be a mirror of your official bio. Please let me know if you have questions. Thanks, NawlinWiki (talk) 15:23, 11 July 2012 (UTC) (volunteer administrator).

July 2012

 * [[Image:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Suzzy Roche, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you. TexasAndroid (talk) 15:32, 11 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Ambox warning pn.svg Please do not remove all content from pages without explanation, as you did with this edit to Suzzy Roche. If you continue to do so, you will be blocked from editing. Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 15:33, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Hello, Yes, This is Suzzy Roche
Hello, Yes, This is Suzzy Roche. I am trying to set up an accurate Wikipedia page. The information here is sloppy. -- Suzzy Roche 15:39, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * OK. Letting you know that you are going about things the wrong way, and causing major problems, mainly for yourself, by the way you are handling things. If you are willing to slow down, and try to work within the way Wikipedia operates, then you'll likely end up with a much better, and less frustrating result.
 * First off, let me caution you a bit about the general situation you find yourself in. Wikipedia strongly discourages, but does not forbid, editing of the page about yourself. There are a number of reasons for this, and you can read some of the at the page about Conflict of Interest editing (COI). But in the end, COI editing very, very often ends badly.
 * Second, you cannot just come in like a bull in a china shop and edit the page to suit your idea of what should or should not be on it. Even if the page is about you. (Actually, especially not if the page is about you.) There are various rules and requirements for what is allowed on a page. What level of verifiability is needed for inclusion. What information is encyclopedic and what is not.
 * If you still insist on editing the page, you are likely best off taking it in baby steps. You know information about you, but you do not know what information Wikipedia does or does not consider encyclopedic. I can get some support from additional eyes on your page, and there are likely multiple people willing to assist you in a clean-up, if you are willing to take it slow. The page is currently what we call a stub, with minimal amounts of information. If you are willing to take the time to work *with* people on WIkipedia to do an upgrade to the page within the rules and requirements of Wikipedia, instead of trying to do things all at once, then we could quite possibly end up with a page that is to the satisfaction of all.
 * I currently have protected the page. If you agree to try to work within the Wikipedia rules instead of trying to work against them, then I will gladly lift that protection, and send out requests for additional eyes to assist you in cleaning up/improving the page. - TexasAndroid (talk) 19:27, 11 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi There. Whoa! I wasn't aware that I was doing this incorrectly until I got bombarded with incomprehensible emails when I later checked my e-mail. So, please, accept my apology for not being able to decipher the rules, but you have to admit that this is not exactly user friendly. I understand that you don't want people to contribute to their own page, but I have been contacted by a number of people who have suggested that I edit this page myself because the page is so poorly informed, and hardly encyclopedic. I was not attempting to break your rules or put a bio on the page or promote myself. I would be happy to work with a real live human being and follow all directions, but I'm not a computer or a computer technician. I have to say the tone of your message is a bit condescending and insulting. Why? I thought you wanted correct information, and I happen to have it. If you can put me in touch with a Wikipedia PERSON who could help, that would be great. They can contact me at my e-mail. Thanks! -Suzzy Roche — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.215.252.81 (talk) 20:20, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry that you found me condescending. This was not at all the intention. You were on a path to trouble that I have seen many times before from people wanting to edit their own page, and I wanted to try to give a personally written message instead of the standard templated responses that you see above. Anyway, I've asked for assistance on the appropriate page, and hopefully someone more diplomatic than me can respond and assist you. - TexasAndroid (talk) 20:39, 11 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I would be glad to help you edit the page as well (have been a fan since the first Roches album). An important rule to keep in mind is that ideally, everything in a Wikipedia article needs to be verifiable by reference to a third-party source (for example, a book, newspaper article, or reputable website, see WP:RS. You obviously know more about yourself than anyone else, but we can't just take your word for it -- otherwise, we'd be inundated with people claiming to be the subject of articles and trying to edit them, and we'd have to go down the road of asking for ID verification. We've found it easier just to cast ourselves as a tertiary source that relies only on information already published in secondary sources. So by all means correct stuff on your page that is incorrect, but please cite to external sources to back up your changes. Also, there is formatting on the page that makes it conform to our layout standards, and there are categories and links to other-language Wikipedias that need to stay on the page. So please be careful about making large-scale deletions (this is what some of the automated warnings were about). Finally, as I said above, this is not meant to be a mirror of your "About the Artist" page - it is a third-party, neutral source. So please be careful with adjectives and (even arguably) promotional language. See our guidelines WP:COI and WP:SPAM. Glad to have you here, and please post any questions here. We will try to answer as soon as we can. NawlinWiki (talk) 21:02, 11 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I have removed the protection that was preventing you from editing the page. - TexasAndroid (talk) 21:24, 11 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Suzzy. I'm also happy to help.  One issue that is important - especially with biographies of living people - is that material added to biographies is verifiable from reliable sources.  I've done a quick Google search and one problem is that even usually reliable independent sites like Allmusic don't say much about your solo activities.  That presents a problem in expanding your biography here because - although I'm sure you are who you say you are - it would be quite easy for someone else claiming to have information about you to add unconstructive material here, if that material was not sourced from outside independent sources.  So, it might be useful if you could point us towards independently published information - such as reviews - that we could use to expand this article.  Regards, Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:05, 12 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I think Ghmyrtle means if you can wade through the thousands of news articles, books, etc. that discuss your life and career and point to the more prominent ones, that would help out. If you have any photos for the article, please upload them to commons.wikimedia.org and let me know that you've done so and I add them to the article. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 09:15, 12 July 2012 (UTC) (a live human)

Hi ~ Okay. I understand. All of the things that I have done have been in newspaper articles over the last thirty years. Unfortunately I don't save those articles. It's odd, though, I know a bunch of people who have written their own pages and did not supply a single document. Their pages are simple, accurate and informative. The thing that really bothers me about my page is the way it's written and the strange, odd things that are included as well as the huge gaps and omissions. I appreciate your help and comments, I'm sorry for any quick moves I made that may have been jarring. In the end, it's an aesthetic problem. Anyway, I'll see if someone I know can help me wade through this. But, thanks to you all for your help! -suzzy — Preceding unsigned comment added by Suzzyroche (talk • contribs) 13:26, 12 July 2012‎
 * Well, the "bunch of people who have written their own pages" shouldn't really have done that - see Autobiography. By the way, when you leave messages on talk pages like this please remember to sign with four of these: ~   :-)  Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:43, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, it would be a good idea for you to verify your identity. The last thing we'd want, and probably the last thing you'd want, is somebody pretending to be you and possibly putting in subtle nasty stuff. See WP:REALNAME for the guidelines. PS: I wore out several copies of Keep on Doing, and still, 30 years later, delight in sharing it with people: "Have you heard this? You must." --jpgordon:==( o ) 17:28, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi, This has been an amazing correspondence and I'm impressed, especially because you're all volunteers. I hate to have to admit that I think I'm might be too dumb for Wikipedia! I can't even figure out what you mean by signing my name. It seems I have to do this: (Suzzyroche (talk) 17:53, 12 July 2012 (UTC)) ? Could that possibly be correct? Anyway, I am the real Suzzy Roche, for what it's worth. (Although one could argue that there is no such thing as the real me or anyone else, especially since the birth of the internet) I suppose the lesson here for me is that it doesn't matter what's on the page. As for Keep On Doing ~ thanks for listening! That's so sweet. I will no longer be annoyed when someone tells me my Wikipedia page is an embarrassment. I've made peace with the whole thing. But seriously, thanks for your clarifications. - Suzzy Roche (Suzzyroche (talk) 17:53, 12 July 2012 (UTC)) :)
 * Tell you what you can do. You can use the article talk page Talk:Suzzy Roche to let us know what's wrong with the article and we'll be more than happy to work with you on it. We certainly don't want wrong information; we're just (possibly overly) fussy about the source of correct information. --jpgordon:==( o ) 21:30, 12 July 2012 (UTC)


 * It matters what's on the page. And if you have people telling you that your Wikipedia page is an embarrassment, that's an embarrassment to other Wikipedia editors as well. The Suzzy Roche article not even close to being a proper biography. Your trying to edit your own article brought attention to it (see all the posts on your talk page :) ) so it likely will be improve in the future. As for signing your name, type in the text " ~ " (four tilde symbols without the quote marks). Now, when you click save page with ~ in the text, those four tilde's magically are converted into a signature with time and date stamp. How you can help: 1. Establish your identity within Wikipedia by sending an e-mail to [mailto:info-en@wikimedia.org info-en@wikimedia.org] and that will be handled by the volunteer response team. Have them post an "identlty confirmed" note on your user page. 2. Photos. It is very difficult for us to get photos for articles. However, they make a huge difference. It is less than satisfying to write a biography where there are no photos to go along with it. If you provide photos for the Suzzy Roche article (baby/toddler age, public school, early career, mid career, present, family, etc. and anything else you want), I'll expand your biography, particularly since expanding the article will help you in your personal life (where people tell you that your Wikipedia page is an embarrassment). Upload the photos to commons.wikimedia.org and I'll take care of the rest. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 13:43, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Photo
I thought of one immediate area where you could help make a major improvement to the page. The page has no photo. It would be a major improvement in a few simple steps to have one added. And who could better access one than you, the article's subject? One thing to be aware of is licensing of photos. All photos on Wikipedia have to either be openly licensed or used under very, very restrictive "Fair Use" limitations. This means that we cannot just take a publicity photo from off of the web and slap it onto the page. The licenses on publicity photos are generally not compatible with Wikipedia's licensing needs. But as the article's subject you could easily have a single photo done that is to your liking, and release that one photo to Wikipedia under a free-use license. Then any of the people assisting you could pop the photo onto the page, and you would have a very visual improvement. And it gets to be a photo that you choose. So many celebrity pages end up with inferior photos, because the only free-use ones available are ones fans have snapped at conventions or other events, situations far from ideal. The key drawback to doing this is that, by releasing a photo under a free-use license, you are basically allowing anyone to use that one photo for any use, as long as they follow the terms of the license. And those terms generally have to do with giving proper attribution to the origins of the photo. For me, it's not a big deal to release photos I take under such license. But as a public figure, it would likely be a consideration. But I know of at least one other case where a public figure had so disliked the candid shots on their pages that they released a very nice photo under appropriate licenses with the specific desire of the photo being used on Wikipedia in place of the disliked one - TexasAndroid (talk) 13:18, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

You came and went quickly
Hello, and you were here for two days! Come back, there is a world of knowledge waiting for your edits and input. I put 'The Roches' template on your page, and maybe you can think of articles here which would be appropriate for the 'Related' section of the template. I last saw you guys in Madison in the early '90s, you guys stopped on the street and gathered my name for the list after I was listening to your rehearsal from the back outside of the theater. Given your tour history since then it was lucky I saw you when I did! Anyway, the above request for a release of a photo or photos would help the page, and give it a visual pazzaz. And there is probably more you can add in since your last edits. Summer beckons. Randy Kryn 22:37 25 May 2014 (UTC) I don't use those four tildes either, I just type my name and time in.