User talk:T. Anthony/Archive 3

Science Fiction(recent stuff)
Hi! I like the work you did on the new Christian scientist article. You might also like my blog [Speculative Catholic]. I was working on my own list of Catholic scientists there. Anyway, it's also about science fiction. Speculative catholic 12:58, 11 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Cool. I think I might've actually seen that. Alas List of Catholic scientists was deleted. I barely got away with reviving it as a redirect to List of Christian thinkers in science. I'm disappointed in many ways at the poor or curious coverage of religion here. For example I was doing something on Christian entertainment so I wanted to look for the article on Christian cinema. I knew there was an article LDS cinema so I figured there was a Christian "parent" article. Wrong. I considered that they used a different name, but there isn't a Christian films or Christian movies articles either. Oh well.


 * I thank you for the compliment, but I worry I've made the List of Christian thinkers in science too difficult to add names to. I like to think I've made it rather pretty, by cribbing from strategies among the Featured lists, but maybe it's too complicated. If you find adding names too hard just tell me.--T. Anthony 13:08, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you
Thanks for your edits to National Islamic Front. The activity on most of the articles of my watchlist is limited to sporadically changing categories/stubs or slow edit wards between American and Commonwealth English and that was the most pleasant surprise I've had today. Here's some WikiThanks. -  BanyanTree 13:12, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

It was my pleasure, and maybe I should thank you? See I have a paper I'm doing on Islamic law in Sudan that's way way overdue. If I don't get it done in the next couple weeks I fail the class. I got all distracted with Wiki, but editing that one got me thinking on the paper again and I appreciate that.--T. Anthony 13:25, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Translation of French text in article Emmanuel Mounier
You asked for the translation of the French segment in the article Emmanuel Mounier. I could not find the corresponding entry on Pages needing translation into English, so I am replying here. The French text seems to have been copied from this PDF file; while the topic may be distantly related to Mounier's field of expertise (his name is cited as a reference on the last page of the document, but I don't know Mounier, so can't judge), the text is very general and certainly not about him or his work, so I suggest to just delete the text (which I will do immediately since there is probably a copyright problem here anyway). Schutz 16:26, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Categorization
Why do you put Bruno of Cologne into Category:Roman Catholic monks if he is already in the sharper category Category:Carthusians? --Pjacobi 16:01, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

I know, I just felt that category looked so lonely. Possibly it can be deleted as we have categories for the orders.--T. Anthony 16:03, 17 November 2005 (UTC) BTW why do we have Category:Carthusians if it's just one guy? I did find a Famous Carthusians site, but none of the names have articles at Wiki. Added to that only two of them even have "red-link" mentions.(Dominic of Prussia and Denys the Carthusian) Carthusians are mostly noted for keeping to themselves and not being noteable.--T. Anthony 00:02, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm exhausted
And intensely annoyed. I'll come back Saturday night and see what's left of my watchlist.--T. Anthony 18:49, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

After deletd statements


 * On second thought I have a better idea. For a List of Christian scientists try Keresztény tudósok névsora at Hungarian Wikipedia. It is not currently in delete vote dispute so may survive for the near future in least. Don't worry about not being able to speak Hungarian as the names on the list are, mostly, readable to English speakers. If you see a name there that is in English Wikipedia, and should go in Category:Christian scientists, feel free to do so.--T. Anthony 08:01, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for expanding Toros Roslin, and you managed to do so without mentioning the many theories about his life and noble background. Cheers --Eupator 14:50, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

I like to limit myself to what can be validly said whenever possible. In general I prefer to use academically valid sources on articles when I can, but this isn't always possible. In his case information was difficult to find, but not impossible. Anyway it was my pleasure. Armenian Christianity interests me as it's the oldest official christianity, but is somewhat neglected by many in Christian history.--T. Anthony 23:12, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Rules of listmaking
The spate of deletions or deletion attempts of lists I did was irritating, but I did learn some things on how to make lists less likely to get delete. Some of the more important ones.

First there's some obvious stuff. Make sure it's a verifiable list and concerns a topic important in some way. Especially to some field of legitimate research. Also don't make it have any hint of advocacy as that's in deletion policy. Now some others that are just stuff based on my observation or heard elsewhere.


 * Annotate: Categories can't be annotated. Annotation is maybe the saving grace of a list in making it mean something different then a category.
 * Sourcing:Related to that make sure your list is sourced. When possible go for the kind of sources you could use in a research paper. Like books put out by University Presses, articles in scholarly journals, and respected newspapers. Think stuff in Scholar Google and Google News rather than Google itself.


 * Appropriate pictures: Categories can't do pictures in the same way. Pictures should be relevant to the topic though and not so large they disrupt the flow of the list.


 * Avoid POV titles: This should be pretty obvious. Don't title lists things like List of Canadians who hate America or something. For that matter avoid even stuff like List of movies that are immoral. Although you could annotate for both those they are entirely too POV to be anything except a flamefest. For that matter even if it's a non-POV subject avoid POV titles. For example don't title a List of Methodist philosophers as List of deeply thoughtful Methodist people.


 * Avoid being too specific: Too much specificity is likely going to make a list non-notable enough that merger will be preferred. For example List of Swedish Americans is fine. List of Swedish Americans in the movie Fargo is probably more information then is really needed. Likewise List of converts to Judaism is fine, in least I think so and it's survived, but List of converts to Judaism from Mormonism is way too specific.


 * Relevance: Make sure the list topic is relevant to the stuff being listed. What I mean is if you want to say have a List of Anglicans make sure Anglicanism matters to the people on it and show why.


 * Use "Incomplete list" sparingly: There really are far too many things at the Category:Incomplete lists and it has an overpopulated notice.(I hope people concerned about "listmania" will go there and put as many of those as possible in subcategories) In fact I'd say if your list concerns anything after the letter "L" then just don't put it in "incomplete list" at all as likely no one will see it there anyway. Further remember that most lists are basically always going to be incomplete. Even if you list everyone or everything at Wiki you can find on the topic it is still likely incomplete. If you have less then ten things and you're stumped, but know there are more, I can see using Incomplete list. However there are enormous lists, which even include many red names, that I've seen called incomplete.


 * Categorize your list. I took List of Mennonites off any categorization scheme for awhile as I felt like there was a specific Category:Lists of people by belief purging going on, but eventually I thought better of it. Because although unncategorized lists might be "safer", in that few seem to notice them, there is too big of a glut of them. There are many Categories of lists available and a huge backlog of uncategorized ones. If you don't know what to put it in just go with Category:Lists.


 * Check if your list could be the name of an article if you remove the "List of" statement. To deal with stuff I worked on: There is a Category:Roman Catholic Church art and the List of Roman Catholic Church artists survived.


 * Check out a World Almanac. Might sound a bit peculiar, but World Almanacs do have lists even if they don't exactly use that word. The lists they have I think are mostly already at Wikipedia and others could be valid.


 * Look at lists that are in existing print Encyclopedias. For example many Encyclopedias have a book that is just an Index. Others have lists at ends of articles concerning the Olympics or the Nobel Prize or something. It's likely these are already at Wikipedia, but still in least it's a respectable source.

I might add more to this later. Not that I think anyone cares much or that I'm even right.--T. Anthony 15:34, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Look for lists that are themselves a part of history. For example Nixon's Enemies List or List of signatories of the United States Constitution.

I will add one more thing not by me. Before making a new list study the lists at Featured lists. That'll give you some sense of what makes a good list and what's valid in listmaking.--T. Anthony 15:34, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

And now back to our regular schedule:)
--T. Anthony 23:36, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Þórir Jökull Steinfinnsson
Hello TA: thanks for the "heads up" on Þórir Jökull Steinfinnsson. I am shortly off to visit my father who is very connected to all [most] things Icelandic. It has taken me years to convince him that wikipedia is legit [Icelanders are not known for doing rapid about faces] and I think he is ready to continue posting. His initial post was gutted of much of its geneological content within an hour or two of being posted - so - we'll see. In any case, thanks. Carptrash 16:43, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome. I'd never seen you before so I worried I was nearly spamming you. I did a bit on Iceland articles when I first came. Although looking through I must've done those before I registered. Oh well, thanks back at you.--T. Anthony 17:16, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Category for renaming
You can remake your nomination further down the page on categories for deletion under today's date. It isn't any harder than putting it in the speedy section (ignore the fancy instructions and just type it out long hand if you want). I wasn't against the nomination, but I am careful to see that the speedy process is not used inappropriately. CalJW 18:23, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Jack London and the Yellow Peril
You thought the Jack London article let him off too easily on anti-Asian racialism, but I see you never tweaked the article yourself, so I added a paragraph consisting mostly of quotes from his own 1904 essay entitled "The Yellow Peril," in which he cheerfully goes on about the inherent characterists of "the Korean" and "the Chinese" and "the Japanese" and why the "little brown men" (the Japanese) are not a "Brown Peril," etc. etc. I then sort of balanced this by placing at the end of the section the often-quoted letter in which he says "just as boys grow up, so the races of mankind will grow up and laugh when they look back upon their childish quarrels." Dpbsmith (talk) 22:08, 20 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I didn't tweak it myself because I kind of started to doubt myself about the whole thing in a big way. That and my knowledge of London wasn't strong enough I felt confident in doing it. I was mostly going on what I'd read in The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction and people I'd talk with who liked his stuff. William Sanders (writer) also had a story that made significant use of the idea so in least the notion he was racist against Asians seemed significant in some circles.--T. Anthony 00:14, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

See you later
I have replied to both you and Marskell on my talk page. -Splash talk 17:54, 23 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I see. Well I've spent too much time here as is. No need to spend much more then I suppose.--T. Anthony 17:57, 23 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I very much hope "no need to spend much more" time is a reference to the article in question rather than Wikipedia itself. As I've suggested this is a process rather than a content thing. The basic topic and content got voted down on AfD--so we have to respect that. I've placed the new list on AfD: Articles_for_deletion/List_of_avowed_Christians_in_science. Honestly, if your insinuation is "no more wiki" because of this business, you should reconsider. Lists often get thumped. You can still absolutely contribute to the topic in related articles. Marskell 22:06, 23 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Just came by and noticed your user page and this. I'll second Marskell. I let myself get a little worked up on those AfDs. I still feel that they should have stayed, but they were given a fair amount of time for hearing... I also get frustrated with the Wiki culture sometimes. Probably because I'm still trying to figure it out. There's a lot more to do here, though. I hope you decide to keep contributing. --Elliskev 22:34, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

I didn't mean quit. I meant "not spend more" as in "spend a good deal less." I have desperately needed to get an incomplete paper done for a class on Radical Islam.

As this is my own talk page I'll be slightly more blunt on some things. The list was deleted as part of a mass delete of religion related lists. Even though these are not really clogging Wiki at all from what I can tell and such lists can be verified with a little work. I essentially created this new list based on statements made about what could be acceptable at List of Christian scientists. I also said I was doing that at that page, two days before there was any controversy. I thought this might be the wrong thing, but I figured I'd get a warning soon after doing it if so. The response it got two days later was, "Better, but I don't think most of these are avowed Christians either." This annoyed me much moreso then the irritation at my behavior, which was intemperate. It irritated me because the new effort is mostly clergymen, theologians, beatified people, and two saints.(One Catholic, One Orthodox) I'm not sure how much more "avowed" I could possibly get with it. I did start it by copying from the Christian list, but then I made a heavy purge of everyone who wouldn't fit the new concept. It's not going to be "any old ordained scientist" as any old ordained scientist wouldn't deserve a Wiki page in the first place.

That said if I'm to be blunt I didn't think the vote was all that fair or especially reasonable. In fact most of the votes, even a few keep votes perhaps, struck me as completely unreasonable or irrelevant or just bizarre. In general I think Wikipedia has difficulties on religion related topics and this was one of the more extreme examples.

Anyway I still might do stuff on the weekends as I never worked on Sundays. I'm just going to scale way back because I went overboard anyway.--T. Anthony 04:10, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

To answer your question
Do you have a link to the musicians article? I recently voted in favor of the annotated List of avowed Christians in science list.

Regarding your question, I acknowledge two kinds of notability for lists of (religion/ethnicity) and (career/professional achievement). One is direct relevance: List of Muslim theologians is obvious. The other relationship is the extent of discrimination a group's members had to overcome. I'd give a strong keep to List of Jewish Scientists in Germany, 1932 - 1939. I'd vote against List of Jewish Scientists in the United States, 1970 - 1979. Durova 09:59, 24 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I get where you're coming from. Truth be told if I didn't think it looked awkward that's how I would do some of these religion lists. Possibly I might think of "List of Christian musicians under Stalinist rulers" or something. I'm not sure. Anyway the Catholic musicians one was "List of Catholic musicians." I'm not sure if I meant another one. In principle I would be okay if some of these were just moved to List of contemporary christian musicians if it gets deleted, but in practice there's a problem with that. Mainly in that CCM is something of a specific genre that stems from an Evangelical Christian or related culture. To be honest I'm not even sure contemporary Lutheran or Anglican music fits it. Although I'll look at its list more closely to see if I'm wrong there.--T. Anthony 10:12, 24 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Oh and thanks on the avowed one. I did kind of act more intemperate then I liked, but I did work hard to make it as valid as I could. I was sort of disheartened by the first response as it came after I had altered it to mostly be ordained people and largely ones who wrote religious works.--T. Anthony 10:14, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Back from Thanksgiving.
Lots of fun, but boy am I sleepy. Hopefully I'll get my work finished before it's due. I'm actually trying to improve that one list still even though I told myself I wouldn't as it's likely a waste of time. hu:Keresztény tudósok névsora I also see the EOC list is improving. Maybe if I really spend a few weeks off I'll be able to see things better.--T. Anthony 02:34, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

I say I'm gone, but then I stay. I'm too tired to do the paper today. Anywho here's some links I've occasionally found interesting. In a few cases even useful in writing here.


 * Ethnologue
 * Pantheon.org(somewhat unreliable)
 * Political graveyard
 * UNESCO World Heritage list
 * TV.com(Pop-culturey stuff)

And for areas poorly handled here.

--T. Anthony 07:04, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Africa Database
 * Somewhat unreliable religion related lists
 * Religious texts
 * Catholic forum

Heather Locklear and Cher
I am just shocked that you have removed these two famous stars, aging actresses Native Americans from List of Native Americans. They have long been mostly associated in the public mind with being rich, sleeping with rock stars , plastic surgery Native American causes. They have as much right to be there as all the others who shouldn't be there. -- JJay 06:12, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Is this sincere or irony:) (I'm not entirely joking though, it is hard for me to tell online) I did consider keeping Cher because although being 1/16th anything is almost meaningless she did at times make an issue of it.--T. Anthony 06:15, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Mr Anthony, you are one of the greatest contributors to wikipedia lists in the history of Wikipedia. If we were giving annual awards for best list, or best supporting edit to a list, or best original idea for a list, you would be nominated in every category. In fact, the awards would be commonly known as the Anthonies. I have generally voted keep or strong keep on every list you ever have been involved with that comes up on Afd. But Wikipedia's policy on boldness, does not mean pick up a machete and hack your way through a list like the jungle of Borneo. Nor does it imply grab your shotgun and head down to the list like some disgruntled postal worker venting his anger at the local McDonald's. Did you consider the effect on Elijah Blue, or what this might mean for Spin City. I heard the Melrose Place hacks, has-beens , idols were just devastated....


 * ...Of course, I was kidding. Keep up the good work. Cheers, -- JJay 17:33, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Hah thanks. I do get frustrated and I do hope for this to only be a weekend thing from now on. On the current avowed Christian list I think I've kind of gone a tad overboard. It could still be deleted but either way I found myself going "dang I want to keep all this stuff I found on my own computer either way" so I copied it and put it on an old Christmas-related list I hadn't deleted.--T. Anthony 17:46, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

SPANIARD
well, i've been told that a spaniard was some one from spain; and a spanish was a person from spain or from any other countyside where spanish is spoken, but you're the natives, guys, if you say that spaniard is a slur i won't use that word again to establish that difference:) Gaudio 20:58, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

I made that change awhile ago and I could be way off. If you are Spanish I feel pretty stupid and apologize. I just remember some professor saying Spaniard, when used by the English, was an insult.--T. Anthony 02:17, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Oops. I'm pretty sure you are Spanish, uhh Spaniard. Okay you got me and I imagine you know better. I made that edit while I was doing several edits in something of a rush. I hope you fixed it.--T. Anthony 02:44, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Help needed
Hi, I have discovered a user has been conducting a huge sock puppet campaign on mostly Jewish lists. I would be grateful if you could have a look at the discussion at User_talk:OwenX where I am listing them (one of which was on Articles for deletion/List of Christian entertainers of which you abstained " unless sockpuppeting delete votes proliferate" !). Thanks Arniep 00:52, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I got a sense of that. I kind of want to spend the day here working on the Icelandic writers, but I'll check it out.--T. Anthony 02:15, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

List of Caucasian Americans
I responded to your point there, however as I believe it was directed at me in particular I decided I'd also respond here. I beg to differ on the point you made. I'm quite bright and I cannot put myself in any of those lists and I wouldn't put myself in the European American category either as I'm not entirely European American. I'm white, but I've got about a sixteenth Native American in me. not to mention a sixteenth or thirty-second of every western european country along with some scandinavian. And I doubt I'm alone. Many people are just WHITE in America now after 400 years of dillusion of blood in many cases.Gateman1997 19:27, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * No disrespect meant, but many of the existing lists only require you have some ancestry in the group named, and several people are placed in more then one of them. So a person like you could simply be in multiple lists. There's also the List of multiracial people which contains Jennifer Aniston calling her "Greek, Italian, English, Scottish." To be honest I think that's more multi-ethnic and multi-racial should be something else, but still mixed ancestry is already dealt with too. Even if that should be separated into two lists, one for multi-ethnic and one for multi-racial, that'd be a better way to handle this phenomenon. A List of Caucasian-Americans is just a vague unusufeul way to handle it as you don't mean "Armenian, Georgian, or Azeri." And I feel more then a little guilty still being here as I did have work to do which I'm neglecting.--T. Anthony 23:47, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

List of dentists
This one was slightly a silly one to do, but surprisingly there was enough articles about dentists to make a respectable list. I think the majority of the names on it really seem to be important to the history of dentistry or being a dentist was important to their life. If it gets erased though it's no loss to me. To be honest I didn't think it would work as anything except a joke. However if now you actually do wish to know which dentist was Episcopalian or Methodist just add that annotation, with a source, to this list.

Also I'm essentially done turning red names blue at the List of Icelandic writers. Most of those named should probably be expanded upon, but I'll leave that to others. I did leave one name red so it's not me completing it. I don't want to get too arrogant with these things.--T. Anthony 05:06, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

RfC-Readying for Christmas!
Happy Holidays, adieu.--T. Anthony 10:28, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Moving Right Along
I'm going to try to get work at the Copley Medal deal done tonight. I think Battersby's all I've managed so far.--T. Anthony 01:10, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

I got a bit done including adding the newest winner. I also worked a little on List of Nigerians.--T. Anthony 05:06, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

User:EffK leaves
On reflection I decided to remove it. I don't feel comfortable having my talk page have a section named for Effk's worldview. That said I still wish him/her good luck. I am admittedly quite glad that s/he is leaving as I think it's the best thing for all concerned. Still a part of me is always disappointed when I can't work with someone. Effk had a passion for history and we need more people with that I think. Unfortunately s/he never managed to convey that in a readable style and s/he was constantly bogged down with his/her biases or pet obsessions. Still I do wish him/her well. I hope in time s/he is able to channel that energy into something positive. This place can be frustrating and I almost wish I could just abandon it at times. So goodbye, good luck, and Happy Holidays. Also please don't come back.--T. Anthony 03:33, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

See User page
Happy Holidays. See you later!(Again:))--T. Anthony 03:42, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Romo Zoet
Re Romo Zoet, there is a mix of things that can be added - his bibliography, the people whom he influenced helped, his position where he fits in amanogst javanists (I have absolutely no intention of starting that article, ver difficult) whether they were dutch - anglo/aust/usa academia, or indigenous, as well his position among the 'stayers' the dutch who didnt go back home at any stage - (1958 kickout or other times). I missed the opportunity to meet him a couple of times before he died. oh well.vcxlor 08:31, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I know I said I'd accept no more messages, but I got all involved tonight. The place can frustrate me, but it is addictive. Also the really holiday stuff doesn't actually start for me until Monday. Still I do intend to leave eventually and either way I leave it in the hands of the Wikipedians who know this stuff.--T. Anthony 08:46, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Also how do I archive? I'm going to try things to see if I can figure it on my own, but no harm done if someone tells me either way.--T. Anthony 08:52, 18 December 2005 (UTC) Note I figured it out.--T. Anthony 09:16, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Adieu(See User:T. Anthony main page)
I've made a liar of myself long enough. Time to really be off for the holidays. I may not even check this place for the next week or so. Therefore please don't leave too many messages for me or anything because I hopefully won't even read them. Hopefully because family is coming this week. Anyway see you the 26th or failing that next year!--T. Anthony 20:25, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

list of Catholic American Actors and Others
Perhaps it is appropriate to move List of Catholic American Actors off of the List of Catholics, since this list is more inclusive than the others and does not qualify for the index. Tell me what you think. Antidote 19:35, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Also, perhaps List of Lutherans should be changed to List of notable Lutherans as otherwise the list would have to inclue basically all of List of Swedes, List of Norwegians, etc..

Lastly, the way list of entertainers in Christian media was edited was very nice. Good job. Antidote 19:40, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Oh, and also, list of Eastern Orthodox Christians should probably be revised too, otherwise we'd have to include too many people. I added a heading at that top that should outline it well, and will go through the list later. Antidote 19:49, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

See message above.(I really am going to be out this week). Still I'd rather you not do any of these things, in least not until I can fully return after Christmas, but thank you for the compliment on the entertainment people one. Also List of Lutherans was not one I was all that involved in so I suggest you take this up at their talk page.--T. Anthony 20:28, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Don't worry. We'll discuss it after the Holidays. Antidote 05:55, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Well as I'm here after all I'll respond to this some. Partly I'm here because this is downtime. My eldest brother left and the big party is tomorrow. Anyway as mentioned List of Lutherans is not one I'm all that involved in. Although I think I'd reject changing it to "notable Lutherans" because that adds unnecessesary subjectivity. The names listed are notable or they wouldn't be on Wikipedia in the first place. That said I could see tightening that list up some. Something like what I added to the Catholic author list. Say "This is a list of people whose identity as Lutherans, either culturally or religiously, is important to them" or something like that. And also put in more sourcing.

On the Eastern Orthodoxers I have a small problem with the change you made. There isn't a large demand for Eastern Orthodox cinema. Nia Vardalos is the only one of those actors that I think did a movie where Eastern Orthodoxy had some importance and even then it was marginal. Therefore if it has to be "identified in their trade" we pretty much can't have any actors outside of maybe some Eastern European ones. I'd be disappointed with that result. For example it was interesting to find out, while researching it, that Jim Belushi was Albanian Orthodox and sometimes expressed regret that he'd become alienated to the faith. He was also buried in that faith. It's similar to Freddie Mercury's relationship to Zoroastrianism in a way and he is on List of Zoroastrians. Further I think it was just an unnecessary restriction because the list is not becoming long or unmanageable. True there are hundreds of millions of Eastern Orthodox Christians, but the number of them with Wikipedia bios is not that large. Added to that I have taken some out for not being "Eastern Orthodox enough." Still it's like with the Catholic authors. For example Rimsky Korsikoff is also on the List of atheists. I'm well aware of this and him being there is justifiable. However him being on the Eastern Orthodox list is also justifiable as he composed Russian Orthodox music which is still important there and that background did likely matter. It's like the deal with me keeping Santayana on the Catholic list. Santayana's Ideas of Christ in the Gospel was once described as the most devout book ever written by a non-believer. That said I'm thinking of removing Tesla again. His dad was a priest, but by all accounts he was not religious even an aesthetic or cultural sense.(Meaning he produced no writing, music, or devices for the Serbian Orthodox faith as far as I know)

Anyway point being you've gotten some flack on your handling of lists of people. Some of that was even by me, but I demured from getting involved in any RfC and I think you have potential. Still because of past problems I'd suggest you be cautious in least for a few weeks. It's good you contacted me, but in general I'd say take up your ideas to the talk pages before doing anything. Well in least for the time being do that. Also do more stuff not concerning lists and of course check Category:Incomplete lists which desperately needs work.--T. Anthony 05:32, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

AfD policy
Thought you might like to take a look at this given your comments on WP:DRV recently: GNAA deletion policy. —Locke Cole 03:53, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Mile Krajina
While randomly searching Wikipedia I found this article. It seems that some of the details in this stub need verifying, so I added the "verify" template.TheRingess 06:44, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I created it because it was on a most wanted deal. I did find some things on him in Serbian or something, but I don't speak that. Whatever you feel is best there is fine by me. Even if that means deleting and starting over.--T. Anthony 23:43, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Centralized discussion/Lists by religion-ethnicity and profession
I appreciate your well-considered comments. It seems like a List of Catholic Businesspeople could fit within the guideline if an introductory statement explained the relationships you describe. Would you support the proposal as written? Durova 04:17, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

I might. I did intend to be off for the holidays, but I'm admittedly doing bad at that. However I am going to be off tomorrow and on Christmas. I'm going to visit relatives who do not have Internet access. (It'd also be kind of rude to spend all my time online when visiting family)--T. Anthony 05:05, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Businesspeople was actually a borderline example. When a sufficient amount of time passed after the musicians and composer ones were deleted I created List of Roman Catholic Church musicians as I did feel Catholic music is a real thing where a list could have some use. In that case it's all people who did church music and who were also Catholic, in least nominally. I doubt it'll be endangered as it's all very specific. Anyway if we recreate a businesspeople one I'd say it should be limited to those who largely use their wealth to promote Catholicism, Catholic charities, or Catholic social teaching as they understand it. Tom Monaghan is a classic example, if a controversial one, but there are others. In some respects the idea of naming it "List of Catholic philanthropists", though odd, might work better. As philanthropy might be more where these things would stand out.--T. Anthony 23:42, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedians born (by year)
Hi, T. Anthony, thanks for letting me know. I must say, I didn't know that it had come up for deletion. Has it been replaced by anything else? Not that I am unduly worried, it's just as a matter of interest. Wouldn't like to appear suddenly as a ninetey-year old anywhere else. (-) Dieter Simon 19:05, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Brazilian jazz
I shouldn't have complained about the article too much as I wrote much of it as it stands now. Before I worked on it the article was just "Brazilian jazz was popularized in the United States by tenor saxophonist Stan Getz in the 1960s." Still I think I'm going to try to work on ideas to expand it. I think in general coverage of Brazil here is almost as bad as sub-Saharan Africa, but more surprisingly so as Brazil is not as poor as most of that region.--T. Anthony 06:39, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Hello
Hey Thomas R,

I know you said on your talk you weren't going to contribute for a bit, but I though I might say hi, and let you know I contribute here - It's where I've been spending all of my time lately. Chooserr (Alexander)


 * Alexander, do I know you from Asimov's or Bewildering perhaps? Anyway I said that, and meant that, but I've still done a bit. The bigger point of it is that I don't want to get involved in this place too late at night which I had been doing. Or get so overinvolved I lose track of other things I wish to do. I've succeeded on that and as that was my real goal I feel okay. I watched Serenity (film) today and, to a degree of surprise, I really liked it. It's a great deal less "Westerny" than Firefly (television series) was and that Western element was what turned me off from that show. I'm also doing well on finishing Nothing Human by Nancy Kress. Some things about Wiki are still a bit weird to me, but it satisfies my interest to share and learn things that are obscure for most folk.--T. Anthony 02:20, 4 January 2006 (UTC)


 * It was from Asimovs, and a few of the other fora. I was sort of expecting you to reply on my talk so I'm sorry that my reply is so long coming. I too have been trying to reduce activity on wikipedia - or at least the English one - so as to work on other things. I currently am working my way through Tim Powers' books - I personally can't read Nancy Kress with any enjoyment (:-(). Chooserr 21:30, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Me?
I'm doing all right all in all. You? Chooserr 21:32, 6 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh pretty good. Right now I'm rereading a Cordwainer Smith book and pondering if this is the kind of place I want to be associated with. Did you ever try Cordwainer Smith? He's some kind of Anglican, but he is a Christian writer. Some here say he was lapsed, but if he was he was only lapsed as an Anglican. I think he was pretty solidly Christian in his last twenty years or so. He just considered leaving Anglicanism for some other Christian denomination at times. Which fit as he joined it as a compromise with his Catholic wife as we don't allow remarriage.(He was divorced)--T. Anthony 21:37, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Jewish lists and categories
Hello, I have made a compromise proposal at Wikipedia_talk:Centralized_discussion/Lists_by_religion-ethnicity_and_profession. Regards Arniep 23:04, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Moya Brennan's name
Hi, She did, actually she did. Her name is and remains Máire Ní Bhraonáin. Initially she came to prominence within Clannad and was known internationally as Máire Brennan which she though would be easier for the non Gaelic speaking supporter. Since she has changed her artistic name to Moya Brennan which she believes is easier for a phonetic style pronunciantion and close approximation to her true Gaelic name. Trust that helps? She has been known by this for some time now. :: Kevinalewis : please contact me on my Talk Page : 10:15, 6 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I'll go with writing her name as "Máire Ní Bhraonáin", while linking her to the correct article, on the list then.--T. Anthony 22:29, 6 January 2006 (UTC)