User talk:TEHodson/Archive 2

Randomly
Is it OK that I keep shortening your name to Hodson when we're chatting? I keep having some serious reading issues of the adult onset dyslexia variety reading your screenie which results in my complete lack of ability to spell/type it properly. But I saw someone else call you TEH and thought I'd ask. I'm sort a chronic name shortener (weird side effect of being around the military my whole life) and sometimes folks get persnickety with my choices of shortening so I thought I'd ask. Millahnna (talk) 03:12, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
 * My name is Tracy, but my friends call me Awi (my Cherokee name). Calling me Hodson is fine, very Edwardian man-to-man, but I think we're both women--Millahnna sounds like a real woman's name to me. So pick one of the above! I should have made myself a groovy nickname when I came to WP, but it honestly didn't occur to me. Too late now. And thanks for asking--you're the first to do so.--TEHodson 03:53, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I am indeed a chick type; usually the name (the one screenie I never have to add numbers to) gives me away. But since I'm the type of chick who uses the word "chick" (and I watch a metric crap ton of sci fi and action movies), sometimes online people think I'm a "dude".  Which is fine; I grew up in California so we call everyone "guys" and "dudes" as a sort of a generic group pronoun.  No harm, no foul.  I'm also Cherokee, though alas, I have no Cherokee name since my family did the whole "leave the trail of tears and pretend to be Irish" thing and I have no official tribal affiliation. My name is profoundly WASPy and my surname comes directly from the full blooded Cherokee portion of my family tree.  Apparently "Patterson" is actually a really common Cherokee last name.  That amuses me and makes me sad, all at once.  One of these days I should really learn Tsalagi, though. Millahnna (talk) 13:27, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Chats
Enjoying the chat over at Buffyverse, though probably not the most appropriate place for our increasingly off-topic ramblings. I hope the furor there is dying down...certainly didn't expect it to blow up at ANI the way it did, though I think little of that was actually related to my original concerns.

I did want to say, and hopefully I won't sound confrontational, that I appreciate your efforts to work with RAP, though I have some concerns that you may have come across a bit aggressively, possibly to the point where it may have been a little counterproductive. I'll be the first to say that RAP did their fare share of hole-digging for themselves as well, but I think more friendliness and less scolding could have been for the best. Anyway, sorry, I didn't mean to scold you or anything either, and it's in the past now, but since we seem to be getting along I felt like I should mention my concern, especially if it's something that might make a positive difference going forward.

So, how was your Halloween? Doniago (talk) 05:16, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
 * P.S. Yeah, Sandy's comment was totally necessary given that I'd already pointed out what they did...oy. Doniago (talk) 05:21, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I feel I was stern, which was unusual for me; I don't think anyone has ever driven me that nuts before. We did make peace on his Talk page, and on mine. I have also suggested he follow along with what's been happening since he started this, as it seems to be bringing about positive change on the articles, however inappropriate the initial act may have been. I didn't mock him (well, I said one thing that was mean, which was a first and only for me), but I will certainly try not to lose it again with someone, however difficult.


 * Are you snowed in there? I grew up in CT, which is currently buried under a foot or so of snow. Now I live on the West coast, on the water, and it's chilly. Last year I got snowed in at Thanksgiving, up in the forest where I lived for awhile, which was unusual for such a temperate area. Weird weather. The world's probably coming to an end.--TEHodson 05:32, 1 November 2011 (UTC)


 * P.S. Not sure which comment of Sandy's you're referring to.--TEHodson 05:32, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Just saw it and responded. Please.--TEHodson 05:44, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
 * (nods) "Stern" is a good word for it, but I also think sternness should be avoided if possible when dealing with people new to the project. I didn't think you were very over-the-top or anything, or I likely would have said something in that regard. I certainly understand how RAP's conduct wasn't really helpful either; they unfortunately seemed to react to incivility with escalation rather than a more constructive approach, and things obviously got out of hand. I'm very glad to hear you've worked things out with them! As I'd tried to point out a few times, though the execution was flawed, the intention seemed good enough, and RAP didn't deserve some of the hostility they received, especially not from people who've been around here long enough that they should know better. I didn't see you mocking them either, which I'm glad for. And if you learned something from the experience, that's not a bad thing either. :)
 * I'm up in Burlington, VT, which is located in a valley and far enough north that all we got was clouds. I don't mind having missed out on the blizzard...last winter we got hammered. I work at a bank, and even we closed one day. Whereabouts in CT were you? I grew up in southern NY, about an hour north of NYC. As far as the west coast goes I've seen Seattle (loved it!) but that's about it. I'd like to check out San Fran one of these years.
 * The world won't be coming to an end until disputes on ANI become more about resolving the disputes as quickly and even-handedly as possible, and less about ping-pong matches. :) I'm pretty irritated that my ANI filing got punted for inactivity even though my original question never even got fully addressed.
 * I was referring to Sandy's scolding us for continuing to talk there when I'd already suggested moving the chat elsewhere (and even provided a link to the pertinent guideline). Was kind of tempted to reply with a, "Yes, we know that, thank you oh so much," but, wouldn't be constructive.
 * BTW, I think this is the first time I've ever actually just chatted with another editor, though Millahna (hope I spelled that right) and I have had a few little off-topic bouts which have been fun. It's nice to talk about stuff on WP that isn't strictly work-related, heh. Doniago (talk) 05:51, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I grew up just East of New Haven, about 2 hrs from you, it sounds--maybe a bit more. I used to take the train into Manhatten. Then I lived for 30 yrs. in the San Francisco Bay Area, in the East Bay. Just moved up here 2 yrs ago, to a backwater (culturally) but it's beautiful. It's quiet, which is what I need. I've been to Burlington, but not for donkey's years. When I was very young, I think. I'm glad you missed the storm; everyone's in the dark and cold, it seems. I like Millahnna--she asked what she should call me--the first one to do so in 2 years of editing! RAP is a male, by the way. I'm not. I think you are, yes? Not flirting, just wanting to get the pronouns right.--TEHodson 05:59, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I think I've heard of New Haven, though I'm not sure where it is. I was down in Cromwell just a couple of weeks ago, if that means anything. I try to get into NYC once a year or so these days (parents still live in southern NY)...love visiting, though I could never live there. Did you like SanFran? I like where I am because Burlington is more like a large town than a city in my experience, and there's also plenty of countryside if I want to head out that way. I am also glad I missed the storm (grin)...my parents weren't so fortunate, though I don't know yet whether they lost power...but they live in the backwoods, so hopefully things aren't too awful for them. I should have called them today. Damn. Yeah, I think Millahnna is good people...oddly, I tend to gravitate towards editors who seem to treat their fellows as human beings who make mistakes from time to time. I'm a guy, but I'm also a gay guy, so flirt if you want but you're not going to get anywhere with it. (laughs)
 * Loved your response to Sandy...oddly I think it was both more and less tactful than I would have been. Doniago (talk) 06:13, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
 * She's making me tired with this "poor Moni" crap. If there's a gun to someone's head, it's news to me. Anyway, you'd love SF. Everyone does--it's really a beautiful and fun city. We have everything there, from great opera, symphony, ballet, to the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence on roller skates and the Folsom Street Fair (scary!). Good music from all round the world, and food to die for. I miss it all the time. There's NOTHING here; no gay community, which I miss, no people of color, no food, really. Not sure how long I'll be able to stick it out. But it's beautiful--I live on a 50-ft cliff above the ocean, and we have wild storms straight out of Gothic fiction. It's very like the West Coast of Scotland and Ireland (which I love). Where does your name come from? I read it as Don Iago, and wonder if it's a ref to Othello's back-stabbing, secretly lustful, buddy.--TEHodson 06:24, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
 * P.S. New Haven is where Yale is.--TEHodson 06:25, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

One reason I had to pull out of the discussion originally was that it was thoroughly pissing me off how RAP was getting blasted by "everyone" while Moni seemed to be getting a blank check for behavior that IMO was at least as bad, especially given that Moni's an admin and IMO should know better. Nevermind the fact that the discussion was making no actual progress towards a resolution at that point. That Sandy is still going on about it (and not just on the Buffyverse page) is ridiculous to my mind. I don't care who you are or how long you've been making valuable contributions here, that doesn't give you the right to ignore WP:CIVIL at will...and if you can't figure out how to say something civilly, you either shouldn't say it at all or should find someone who can say it in a civil manner. I honestly haven't seen Sandy say anything that didn't sound combative or patronizing; they might try working with people rather than treating anyone who questions them as an adversary.

"Poor Moni" is just a ridiculous sentiment at this point though; Moni has proven quite capable of speaking for themselves, and frankly, at this point they're doing work because they want to; nobody's putting a gun to their head.

I really do plan to make it out to SanFran eventually, but I'd like to go with someone (or have someone to visit) and right now my finances are such that a solo vacation isn't really prudent. One of these days. Where you're living sounds nice as well, though for different reasons; I think it might drive me stir-crazy after awhile though. :)

(laughs) Secretly lustful buddy...heh. Well, I was involved with the Society for Creative Anachronism for about a decade, and Iago was my persona name, and it mostly came from Kenneth Brannagh's Othello...but...there was a wee bit of Gilbert Gottfried's parrot from Aladdin mixed in as well...you may have noticed that I don't tend to shut up when I believe in something, even if everyone possibly wishes I would. Doniago (talk) 13:15, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

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Ugh
I have never encountered a more rude person on the internet than you. Some points in attempt to dispel your tyrade against me;
 * "you need to know that you created more problems than you solved" - By improving an article which contained no information about the tour itself, actually adding a reasonable introduction to the tour page, adding the tour poster, upgrading the tour dates to meet standards on other pages, writing a concert synopsis and full introduction and introducing the article with some sort of discourse structure? Yeah right, any "problems" I created were minimal and I challenge you to provide me one other than my so-called poor writing skills and lack of references cited.
 * " PLEASE do not edit on that page, or any other, until you have learnt something about how to write and edit on WP" - This has nothing to do with you, and I will continue to edit at my discretion.
 * " I have had to re-write the entire article" - HA! Please, GIVE ME STRENGTH. You did absolutely nothing of the sort. And moving my synopsis to the "Overview" (where it categorically does not belong) and adding a few wikilinks here and there does not constitute a "re-write".
 * "I have had to remove a section that shouldn't have been inserted (the "why doesn't she tour anymore" speculation has no place in an encylopedia" - This was not part of anything that I added, and indeed I'm sure you'd agree that by moving it to a more general "Overview" section, it was better placed than the introduction. Oh wait, you probably wouldn't.
 * ", wikilink every song you mentioned for which there is an individual article, as well as wikilink the names of the video" Yes, because I didn't know they were they when I added a synopsis (A MUCH IMPROVED VERSION, I might add) for the article. Oh wait, that's right, I did. Hello there, WP:OVERLINK.
 * "deal with some very poor writing on top of all that" - Provide examples, and take a look at the article before my edits.
 * "And you provided no edit summaries to explain why you did what you did, started no conversation on the Talk page to let people know you were about to start a massive rewrite" - Edit summaries are not a requirement. Why bother going to the talk page when I'd have peoiple like you dispelling my edits as if they were trival additions.
 * "have not included even one citation" - Then there will be never be a concert synopsis, since there is no reliable source which describes it in full. Nothing else required one.

Do with the article what you wish. "Whatever". Rowlandgarlander (talk) 19:33, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * While TEHodson's criticisms of your edits probably could have been phrased in a more constructive manner, the same could be said of your response. There's no reason to be summarily dismissive of another editor's good-faith changes to an article. Rather you should engage them in a constructive manner and try to reach a reasonable compromise. If you're not interested in collaborating with others and accepting that occasionally your hard work is going to be undone by others who feel it isn't in the best interests of the project, then Wikipedia may not be the type of working environment that you're looking for. In any case, rather than engaging on each others' Talk pages, perhaps the article Talk page, where others can offer their feedback, would be a more constructive venue for this discussion? Just my two cents. Doniago (talk) 19:56, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * If, as you say, there is no reliable source for a concert "synopsis", there probably shouldn't be one, as it would therefore bring up WP:OR and WP:Attribution issues. Where, please, did you get your information? Even if you got it from just watching a tape of the concert, citing that tape would be better than nothing. I have requested you let us know on the article't Talk page where you got your information so that it can be properly cited--I hope you will do so, as otherwise the concert summary will have to be reduced or removed to reflect what is verifiable. While edit summaries are not strictly required, they are a necessary part of the editing process, which here is done as a community, not solo, effort. Beginning conversations on the Talk page are a different story--anyone with any experience working here knows that the easiest and surest way to start trouble is to simply take over an article without giving notice and inviting collaboration. If you are doubtful of the amount of work required to make the article well-written, please do a comparison on the Revision History and see for yourself. It took hours. I was certainly out of patience with you (though I did commend you for taking on a long-neglected article) but if I am the rudest person you've ever met on the Internet, you've been incredibly fortunate. As you did not seem to notice my banner at the top of this page telling everyone that if I've left a message on your Talk page, please reply there, but instead replied here, I will copy this reply to your Talk page to ensure that you see it. Before I went to your Talk page, I started a discussion on the articles' Talk page. That is where this conversation should be happening.--TEHodson 20:12, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Gone (Buffy the Vampire Slatyer)
Okay, I admitt it is a terrible image. How about Buffy and her meeting with the Trio, would that work?--NeoBatfreak (talk) 23:32, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * It depends on the resolution, and the ability to use it without copywrite issues. Try it, see if it works. Please consider the other issues I raised, too.--TEHodson 23:45, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Oaky, I've uploaded a new screen capture. It is a good resolution, and shouldn't have any copyright issue.--NeoBatfreak (talk) 00:14, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Neither does it have any meaning! I know why the mug is floating in the air, but for someone who has never seen the ep, it's not very informative. I'd go for something a bit more illuminating.--TEHodson 00:32, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Oaky, I'll just settle with Buffy getting her haircut, then. That's the only noteworthy thing on the episode anyway.--NeoBatfreak (talk) 00:49, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm not great with grammer
That is the problem I have since childhood. It is my learning disability and have to get myself some writing tutors thoughout school.--NeoBatfreak (talk) 18:28, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
 * If basic writing skills are a problem, you should not be writing on an encyclopedia. I don't mean to be harsh, but being able to write is a minimum requirement here at Wikipedia. I beg you to stop--you are creating tons of unnecessary work for me and the others who follow you around, cleaning up after you. At least stop of the Buffy pages, which are in enough trouble without people making them worse. I have had to rewrite or revert dozens of your edits already. Please, please stop. And please leave replies to messages on your Talk page on your Talk page, not mine, so that conversations make sense--can you see that at the top of this page it tells you that if I've left a message on your page, answer there?--TEHodson 18:42, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Fine, I'll just stick with uploading screen captures then. Angel episodes needs some images to illustrate.--NeoBatfreak (talk) 18:50, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Jenny Calender
With Jenny Calender having an American accent and all, it is assume she was born in US. So can I label her within Category:Fictional American people of Romanian descent?


 * Romanian is not the same as Romani--the Romani people are a tribe who live all over Europe, with complicated ancestry. She is of Romani descent, not Romanian.--TEHodson 23:52, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

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 * Fixed it. I thought I'd fixed it already.--TEHodson 10:45, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, I did try to upload some Angel screenshots instead.
But some people just remove them for odd reasons. Can I ask you a favor? Since you are good with grammar, any chance you can help me proof read this article Startling by Each Step? I've used my grammar check from my word processor, but like to have an outsider's takes. I would be appreciate it if you did. It is another supernatural TV show centering a time-traveling young women,, but not like Buffy or Tru Calling. Thanks.--NeoBatfreak (talk) 03:41, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll take a look at it. The images are not being removed for "odd reasons"! Your Talk page is filled with notices telling you that the images you're putting up on Wikipedia are illegal for us to use, and are therefore being deleted if you can't prove, within 7 days, that their is a "fair use rationale" for keeping them up. Haven't you been reading those notices? You should probably stop putting up images that have to be deleted, and read up on the guidelines.--TEHodson 05:36, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * So you will look at Startling by Each Step's summary for me? Thank you.  It's hard being a first generation of a family to born in the US, growing up in a family who doesn't speak English very well and as having a learning disability.  That's one of the reasons why I contributes Wikipedia, for practicing my writing and learn from people like you.--NeoBatfreak (talk) 06:05, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem. Did you understand what I wrote about the images you keep uploading and which are getting deleted?--TEHodson 06:10, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It's hard to keep track. I know some, but not all.  Anyway, thank's for proofreading my article, despites it's a Chinese TV serial and all.--NeoBatfreak (talk) 06:13, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Please see the article's Talk page. --TEHodson 06:48, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I was trying add little more details so you can understand it, since I know you never watch the show before. I'm done.  You can look ar it if you like. Again, sorry if I cause you frustrations. Please accepts my apology and I was never meant to gving you obstacles of editing.--NeoBatfreak (talk) 06:57, 21 December 2011 (UTC)


 * What does this sentence mean: "In a last-ditch effort to save Yinsi and her friends from their terrible fates, Ruoxi warns Yinsi to be wary of Yinzhen." There hasn't been anything before this that indicates a horrible fate is in store. Does someone know about these fates in advance? Please explain here, on the Talk page, so I can make the plot summary make sense. Thanks.--TEHodson 06:22, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Someone else wrote it. I added details within the summary in hope you can understand it now.


 * Also, who divorces whom, and who commits suicide? I took out those sentences as they made no sense, but will put them back in once this is explained. This plot summary is way too long and completely impossible to follow. It should be much, much shorter, with a minimum of detail. A very rough sketch. I suggest you cut out most of it and just give a very simple explanation of the largest points. I can correct grammar, but I can't cut plot elements when I don't know the material and have no idea what is really important and what isn't. Someone has to make some tough choices, otherwise the plot summary is such a nightmare of names and details that it's unreadable. --TEHodson 06:33, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Again, that's someone else. The summary was actually written by a college student from China, who gets his or her education there. I find his or her grammar, spelling, and writing skills even worse than me, and tried my best to fix the entire summary.--NeoBatfreak (talk) 07:28, 21 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure what you're doing when you leave a message here, but it appears you keep going in and changing the wording of your comments over and over again. Every time you do that, an email is sent to me telling me that my Talk page has been changed, so I've gotten 20+ emails even though you've left only 3 comments here--did you realize one was generated every time you make a change? Don't worry about editing your message to me--it doesn't need to be re-worded a dozen times. I'm only going to read each comment once, usually right after you've written it, so don't bother with all that tweaking. It just clogs up my email inbox and confuses me, because I come here thinking you've left a new message even though you haven't. Thanks.--TEHodson 12:44, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Give yourself a pat on the back
I've grown cold, Hodson. I no longer wish to maintain a civil manner. I have evolved into a shark in a pond of minnows. My manners died when you humiliated and demonized me for a supposed "mess" (you obviously don't understand what redirect means, it only fazes out content, not "messes" it up.) So thank you, Hodson. Thank you, Moni. And a big round of applause to SandyGeorgia. You have showed me that playing nice won't work in our generation. RAP (talk) 2:40 15 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Are you genuinely ignorant of the amount of work that went into unraveling your "redirects"? And have you not seen the amount of re-writing being done on those articles so that you won't take it into your head to do it all over again? Other than to make an unholy mess, have you been to the ProjectBuffy page again? I doubt it, or you wouldn't be so blithe about it. And to what generation do you belong, and why do you say "our"? I'm pretty sure we established that I'm twice your age. And your own record shows--you know, the record you're so desperately trying to cover up by suddenly going anonymous--that your "civil manner" wasn't terribly civil to begin with. You wreaked havoc, insulted everyone who was involved in the Buffyverse articles, then took off to leave us to clean up after you. You weren't a minnow then and you're not a shark now. You're a half-witted bumbler, and a cowardly one at that.--TEHodson 03:28, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Gee, 5 minutes of reverting redirects cost you precious time. I am sooooooo sorry bout that. I have been back to the page and, aside from revisiting burned bridges, i admire the work poured in. But it does not excuse the way you treated me. And before you go into a hoopla about how i acted, i do understand your frustration. My outbursts throughout my lifespan here isn't perfect, nobody's is. But it's hard, Hodson, it's hard to be the good guy in situations where they only want to rip your heart out and drain it of your good will. I've been treated like scum trying to be helpful, and no matter what, i'm the fuckup. So i binned good will and civility and adopted your's and Moni's ingenious antagonist view of things: Fly in guns blazing and be unapologetic. And when did the term for coward change to "someone who wishes their name be removed from a statement or quote"? I know what i wrote. I was sorry, but now i'm not. It's not in the context i wrote it in. It's for Moni to get a laugh out of my person. So think what you will of me, i just couldn't care less anymore. Take my spirit and impale it on a fucking spike if you want, that part of me is gone. Gotta be an asshole in an asshole's world. RAP (talk) 3:49 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * If it had been "5 minutes of reverting redirects" no one would have been anything but mildly irritated. Your memory is short, your information is incorrect, and your attitude, then and now, was adversarial. You got back what you gave, by doing something not only unnecessary, but by doing it messily and then telling those who even questioned what you had done to "get lost" as Moni's talk page shows. Grow up. Or at least go away.--TEHodson 03:59, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, i won't go away because you want me to. I'll go away when i feel my time here is done. Your memory must be fading with age, as i only redirect and tagged articles for problems, i didn't edit content. I suggest you go back and see that. As of now, i wish to have nothing to do with you. I never want to see you writing on my talk page. And more importantly, realize your age. Twice my age would mean you're 37. And the only person you feel you can push around is a 17-year old? You are so mature. This conversation is dissolved and our association terminated. RAP (talk) 4:09 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Uhmmm...17 x 2 = 34.--TEHodson 04:17, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Guild of Copy Editors
Hi. I noticed on your User page that you say "As I am a writer and sometime editor in real life, my specialty on Wikipedia is writing and editing other people's writing", and I wondered if you were aware of WP:GOCE and might be interested in joining? We always need new people who are skilled at copy editing, especially for the drives that are held every other month -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:12, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I have a couple of articles in my own backlog, but will take a look and see what I feel up to doing. Thank you for the invitation. How did you find me in the first place (just curious)?--TEHodson 20:50, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I just looked at another user's page because I wanted to send him an email, and I spotted a few names I didn't know - and I'm nosy ;-) -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 20:59, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Me, too! I'm always surprised by how many of the same people I run into again and again. Nice to meet someone new. I will check out the backlog and see if something interests me. Thanks again.--TEHodson 21:06, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Apology
A message from my talk page:
 * I can see now. I was placing my personal feelings on a golden pedestal and making them the driver of my outbursts. Hell, i gnored the note of civility on the top of this very talk page. I know my actions were unwarranted, uncalled for and extremely immature. Lashing out won'y solve anything. This could be the insomnia talking, but i can see bright as day i'm in the wrong. And i regret my actions.

I apologize, Hodson, for my truly unacceptable conduct. I allowed the hurt i felt months ago come back as bitter anger and made me blind to the real problem. I only hope, that, though you only see me as some 17-year old, you could see me as a 17-year old who wants to try and do all he can for Wikipedia. Will we be able to wipe the slate clean and move past this despicable part in our lives, and maybe emerge from this as collaborators, not squabblers. RAP (talk) 12:51 16 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I hope, too, you will learn not to make big gestures like massive re-directs, as whether you know why or not, they are disruptive, and usually only done after plenty of warning and discussion. Large, abrupt, unilaterally decided moves are not in the community spirit. Imagine if someone walked into your house and just decided all your books would be better someplace else, or that you really didn't need this or that one, so just moved or threw them out. Even if they were right and this was a better arrangement of the books, it was hardly their place to do it without saying, "I'm thinking about moving the books over there, for these reasons--what do you think?" You have to think of Wikipedia as a shared room where all the books in it belong to everyone, so a decision to move or eliminate even one of them is made after a group decision. Or it should be. There is a protocol for such things. When it is followed, WP works pretty well. When it's not, you get what happened here. And mouthing off about it to those who are saying, "Whoa!!" just makes it worse. Thank you for your apology. I wish you well. --TEHodson 19:14, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Edit summaries
Hello! At the risk of offending you - and with all due deference to your professional experience - having looked at the edit summaries you left this morning, I wondered if you'd read WP:EDSUM and its advice to ''Avoid inappropriate summaries. Editors should explain their edits, but not be overly critical or harsh when editing or reverting others' work. This may be perceived as uncivil, and cause tension or bad feelings, which makes collaboration more difficult.''? If you describe something a fellow contributor has added as "poorly written" or make comments such as, "Sentence structure, people, please" there's every chance you will have right on your side, but you're likely to make other people feel like something the cat dragged in, and what's the point of that? Exok (talk) 23:25, 22 January 2012 (UTC)


 * You haven't offended me, but I think you're a bit over-sensitive if you think what I wrote is harsh, or maybe you haven't seen some of the edit summaries I've run into by fed-up writers. Admonitions to do a better job of writing isn't harsh, in my opinion, but salutary. Given the incredibly poor quality of prose that makes up 90% of the writing here, I think such admonitions about basic sentence structure are desperately needed, not out of line. There are days when I despair altogether. Usually I just write, "Rewrote..." but there are days when some mild venting is necessary for my own sanity, and perhaps one or two people will take a look at the before and after and learn how to construct a sentence properly. It seems a minimum basic requirement to me.--TEHodson 00:42, 23 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, I'm very happy you allowed me to say that and are not offended. Thanks for explaining and happy editing. Exok (talk) 00:44, 23 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I see we were both attempting to clean up Peter Weir. The article is desperately in need of it, but I'm a bit sick of WP at the moment and not feeling very ambitious.--TEHodson 00:55, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I have archive my talk page
I have archive my talk page, your WARNING is in my archive and so you shouldn't give me another warning, and its my first time too, and please don't bother me anymore, and I will try to remember to add edit summary on Buffy related pages and other unrelated articles, despites other users appear did the same thing too.--NeoBatfreak (talk) 20:03, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
 * This discussion was begun on your talk page, and should continue there. Please try to do things properly on Wikipedia.--TEHodson 20:07, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Please leave talk page comments properly--do not go back in and edit them, unless it is to line them out and then re-write your comment. I'm sure you know how to leave a new comment after the last one. --TEHodson 20:13, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I'd like to echo the above. Threatening to have someone blocked for not using edit summaries, especially when the help page does not indicate it is required, isn't really a great practice. I would also suggest you stop posting to User:NeoBatfreak's talk page. They have asked you not to post there, so it would only be polite to stop. If they edit in a way you think is incompatible with our editing standards, consider asking for a third opinion on the matter. TN X Man 21:00, 23 January 2012 (UTC)


 * We have had third, fourth, fifth, and possibly sixth opinions on the matter. They have not made any difference. Neobatfreak has been asked and asked and asked, and has responded by doing one or two edit summaries for a day or so, then gone back to wreaking havoc. Multiple edits on multiple pages have had to be reverted, his long list of illegal images and warnings about them has failed to generate change: what do you suggest those editors who are actually working on the pages he messes with do? Suggestions are not only welcome, but required. Beyond getting people who know nothing of his history to run to his defense, this user seems unable to do much.--TEHodson 21:09, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I would equate "not leaving edit summaries" with "wreaking havoc". Since it's clear that your suggestions have not had the desired effect, then I suggest you open a request for comment. The image uploads are problematic, I agree. But threatening to have someone blocked (especially over edit summaries) is not the best way forward. Let the community decide what, if any action, to take. TN X Man  21:27, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
 * When several users make the same requests of the same user and are ignored, isn't the "community" being ignored? When one spends half a day reverting edits, rewriting what doesn't appear to be even simple English, or removing images or simply trying to follow the chain of events on multiple pages and leaving multiple requests to please stop, and the offending user's response is to run to admins for support instead of simply doing things properly (which would take a great deal less energy) what can the "community" do? It seems to me that this user is either incapable of following guidelines or is blatantly unwilling to do so. It is not my habit to run for official sanction, but I was out of patience (after months of this). Why have you not at least suggested to this user that he try to avoid trouble by following the guidelines the "community" has laid down for all of us? Wouldn't that be simpler? Take a look at the user's (now archived) talk page. Multiple warnings have had absolutely no effect.--TEHodson 21:38, 23 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Leave me alone, Who you do think you are, Queen of Wikipedia!!!!!!!!!!?????????? You are not exactly perfect yourself.--NeoBatfreak (talk) 21:44, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Underworld (film series)
Look at the edit history, I asked the same question. The answer is in the article. Please fix your mistake yourself, I'm off. --79.223.19.70 (talk) 22:33, 26 January 2012 (UTC)


 * If it's unclear to more than one reader, there's a problem, and it should be fixed by someone who fully understands the issue. I've mostly been copy-editing.--TEHodson 22:54, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Yoko Ono
I have no idea where on earth you get the idea that some sort of official designation for Japanese-American exists where it means "Japanese-American means born of one parent of each". In any case, per WP:BRD the proper course of action is to discuss this on the talk page and I have started the topic there. You will need to provide some sort of evidence to your claim.  freshacconci  talk talk  11:47, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * See my reply on article talk page.--TEHodson 18:43, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Kevin edits
With regard to your message about the We Need to Talk About Kevin article: You raise a number of good points about the article in general, but I should point out that I only added a plot summary. I apologize if some of my word choices were inappropriate, but I think you would agree that an article about a novel needs to include a section about the plot. I will try to use more neutral language in future, however. Treybien 17:07, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Sensibility
What exactly did you find excessive about the wikilinking ? --ProfPolySci45 (talk) 08:02, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
 * One doesn't usually wikilink common words like "novel" especially when they've already been wikilinked. Wikilinking makes the article difficult to read, and should be kept to a minimum. Technical terms, place names the first time they appear, actor's names only the first time, etc. If you think something really should be linked because otherwise it has little chance of being understood on its own, then put it back, but I would say novel and screenplay are well-understood things in the world!--TEHodson 08:05, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
 * And Devonshire had already been wikilinked.--TEHodson 08:16, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

AfD
While I don't think that there's much anything productive left to be said, I've responded to you at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Xuanyuan Jian: Tian Zhi Hen. That aside, I'd prefer that you not perceive me as one of the people that takes the thrill out of contributing here, especially seeing as I'm vehemently opposed to the principles and actions of many such folks. Happy editing. —  C M B J  09:04, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * As you said, you weren't the main contributor to the ridiculous debate on that page, so don't take what I said too much to heart about you, personally. The person who created the article, such as it is, has a history of creating what I consider to be difficult situations (such as half-assedly putting up an article, then not handling the issues which arise), and then insulting those who question him and finally buggering off altogether so that others have to deal with what's going on. Had he taken your sources and verified them for those who asked (and according to other policies which have been quoted at me, he has that responsibility--if non-Chinese readers ask about the sources, he's supposed to explain who they are and why they're reliable). The person who nominated that article for deletion asked reasonable questions which Neobatfreak has ignored (as usual), while steadfastly ignoring as well any suggestions for improvement to the article. I lost my patience today (which is rare for me) but there are people here who just make me want to scream, and he's one of them.


 * I've also been on the other end of the notability argument, before I really understood the issue thoroughly, but my response to those who wanted to delete the article I was working on was to work harder and faster so that the problems they perceived no longer existed; I didn't waste time arguing. I learnt a great deal about the policy then, which can pretty much be summed up like this: The Queen of England may be a notable topic, but if the article about her is just a rough sketch, with no sources, it's going to be challenged as "not notable." It's not just the subject, but the article which has to meet the requirements. I'm also sick to death of the never-ending arguments that go on here. I just read through a long argument between several people about how to deal with articles about older films, where scholarship is thin on the ground so the articles are either stubs or full of unsourced OR. While the opposing parties argued and argued over what was the best course, a person who did not participate in the argument but had noticed it went and rewrote two of the articles in question and sourced nearly everything that had supposedly been unsourceable. I could not believe how much time and energy the arguers spent, with those who refused to do what this person had done claiming it was because they didn't have the time. I say: if you have time to argue, you have time to find a source, and that would be a much better use of your time.


 * I also get tired of the many ways in which this so-called encyclopedia is ridiculed by others (which motivates me to try to improve it) and diminished by those who mistake it for a fan site (which makes me want to quit while I still have my sanity). Today I was sick of all of it all at once. I haven't had a chance to check out your contributions here, but if you say you're a serious person, I believe you. Others are not, however, and they often make life very hard here for those of us who are. I'm not sure why you think this article should stay, but at this point I don't care. I've spent enough time on it. Mostly I just wanted that kid to, just once, have to clean up his act a little bit, to actually do what Wikipedia editors are supposed to do, instead of what he feels like doing. A silly thing to want, maybe, but there you go. Thanks for stopping by, though.--TEHodson 09:44, 23 February 2012 (UTC)