User talk:TShilo12/Archive 2

Childlike mentality VfD discussion continued...
I just archived...please continue any discussion from User_talk:TShilo12/Archive 1 here.

Yehudei Sheqolnique
It's probably still around because of a backlog in people processing the VfDs. As for your concerns about it propogating, it has already been around for a year, so it probably has propogated already. Jayjg (talk) 18:23, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

created it; I think Charles Matthews just did a very minor copyedit. Jayjg (talk) 19:14, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Good news, it's been deleted now. The wheels of VfD grind slow but sure. Jayjg (talk) 21:50, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Dr. Lavender
Hi. I've been gone a week - did you get in touch with Dr. Lavender? -- BD2412 talk 02:31, 2005 May 31 (UTC)

Banu Qurayza
Hi, I received this request: "Banu Qurayza I'd be interested in your thoughts, and if you have time, your help in editing.Briangotts 02:34, 31 May 2005 (UTC)" Are you able to take a look at it, it's also being "disputed". Thanks. IZAK 03:28, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Name of Tétouan
Hi Tomer, thanks for your question. Well, I think you asked the right person as I am from Tétouan, Tetuán, Tittawin, Tittawen, Tettawen or Tettawin, etc...

Before anything, Tétouan is a French form. And Tetuán is the Spanish form. There are three aspects that we have to consider:
 * Tetuán: This is the correct Spanish name for the city. This is the first name that was used before any other romanizing of the name. I mean before the French version ever existed as the city got nothing to do with France.
 * Tétouan: This is the French version. As you know, Morocco's second language is French and therefore all names got converted to the French version.
 * Tatawn, Tittawin, Tittawen, Tettawen, Tettawin, etc... This is how historians tried to transcript how locals pronounce it in the local dialect. The classical arabic form is &#1578;&#1591;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606; (pronounced Tetwan) (The first T is pronounced as in Tea, while the t is pronounced as in Tonto (in Spanish). No local use classical arabic as it is only used for writting. To be more clear, I call it T'ttawn. There are no vowels pronounced after T and W. This is the right version locals use to call it. Tatawn, Tittawin, Tittawen, Tettawen, Tettawin, and a few other forms, has been used by some historians trying to transcript the local version into other languages, especially Spanish. Therefore, all forms are acceptable.

In brief, Tatawn is still acceptable as a transcript. However, I'd rather use a double t as an emphisize.

I think the author of Tetauni might not know about what I just said above as the article deals with Jews in Oran, Algeria. Tetauni is pronounced T'ttawni in Tetuán and pronounced Tetuani in the rest of Morocco.

Finally, I am also not sure how to get a right title for the city in the English Wikipedia. Tétouan would be valid in the French Wikipedia. I just tried to add Tetuán as a redirect. Maybe I'll have to add a line mentioning the other names. I looked into google.es and found the following. You can have a look at these three web pages:, ,. Cheers -- Svest 11:49, May 31, 2005 (UTC) Wiki me up&#153;

Karaite Judaism
I am philosophically against deleting information on a Talk: page, unless it is blatant silliness/nastiness. Jayjg (talk) 16:49, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Korean syllable
I'm not using it anymore anyway. And I wasn't going for the syllable (as I am now), I was going for something transcribable as talk. --Angr/undefined 06:59, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Need article on Hebrew root word/s
Hi Tomer: Hope all goes well. This time I am only asking you: Since you are one of our resident Hebrew language experts, would you mind writing a brief article on Hebrew root word or Shoresh (Hebrew) please, because it's sorely lacking when trying to explain to the uninitiated the importance of knowing the shorashim in comprehending the meaning of Hebrew words (not to mention how crucial it is in Dikduk (Hebrew grammar). Hope you can help out soon. Thanks again! IZAK 09:15, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Israel or Palestine for the region?
Hi, please see the heated discussion at Talk:History of ancient Israel and Judah over revisionist attempts to eradicate mention of (ancient!) "Israel" and "Judah" entirely in favor of "Palestine". Please add your views. Thank you. IZAK 11:33, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Bold moves
I've posted a note to him asking him to come talk. Jayjg (talk) 14:06, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The "Æ|æ" grapheme is difficult to type; as our own article notes, it is "falling into disuse." This can be demonstrated through a few simple searches on Google:

To Tomer: I don't think using the most clear and easily readable rendering is "anti-scholarly," not do I think that it violates any of Wikipedia's policies. On a side note I find your outrage rather disproportionate to the situation. Hopefully we can work this out together. Keep in touch. Warmest regards --Neutralitytalk 19:08, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)

Do you own 68.190.162.144?
Unless you own the IP address 68.190.162.144 (and it seems to belong to Charter Communications), you shouldn't redirect the user pages for that address to your user pages. A simple pointer to your user pages is more appropriate.

Mizrahi Democratic Rainbow
Dear Tomer, I'll see if I can translate the pertinent passage/s for you soon, in the interim, you can check out the English Introduction to the Mizrahi Democratic Rainbow. Best regards, El_C 06:00, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Key passage
&#1497;&#1513;&#1504;&#1501; &#1508;&#1506;&#1497;&#1500;&#1497;&#1501; &#1495;&#1489;&#1512;&#1514;&#1497;&#1497;&#1501; &#1513;&#1493;&#1504;&#1497;&#1501; (&#1500;&#1502;&#1513;&#1500; &#1495;&#1500;&#1511; &#1502;&#1488;&#1504;&#1513;&#1497; &#1492;&#1511;&#1513;&#1514; &#1492;&#1491;&#1502;&#1493;&#1511;&#1512;&#1496;&#1497;&#1514; &#1492;&#1502;&#1494;&#1512;&#1495;&#1497;&#1514;) &#1492;&#1502;&#1510;&#1497;&#1506;&#1497;&#1501; &#1500;&#1511;&#1512;&#1493;&#1488; &#1500;&#1502;&#1494;&#1512;&#1495;&#1497;&#1501; &#1489;&#1513;&#1501; &#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1491;&#1497;&#1501; &#1506;&#1512;&#1489;&#1497;&#1501;, &#1502;&#1513;&#1502;&#1506;, &#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1491;&#1497;&#1501; &#1513;&#1502;&#1493;&#1510;&#1488;&#1501; &#1502;&#1488;&#1512;&#1510;&#1493;&#1514; &#1506;&#1512;&#1489;. &#1493;&#1500;&#1488; "&#1502;&#1494;&#1512;&#1495;&#1497;&#1501;", &#1513;&#1492;&#1497;&#1488; &#1511;&#1496;&#1490;&#1493;&#1512;&#1497;&#1492; &#1513;&#1500;&#1491;&#1506;&#1514;&#1501; &#1492;&#1493;&#1502;&#1510;&#1488;&#1492; &#1506;&#1500; &#1497;&#1491;&#1497; &#1492;&#1502;&#1502;&#1505;&#1491; &#1492;&#1488;&#1513;&#1499;&#1504;&#1494;&#1497; &#1513;&#1513;&#1500;&#1496; &#1489;&#1488;&#1512;&#1509;. &#1488;&#1498; &#1494;&#1492; &#1488;&#1497;&#1504;&#1493; &#1489;&#1497;&#1496;&#1493;&#1497; &#1504;&#1508;&#1493;&#1509; &#1489;&#1513;&#1497;&#1495; &#1492;&#1506;&#1491;&#1514;&#1497; &#1492;&#1497;&#1513;&#1512;&#1488;&#1500;&#1497;, &#1493;&#1494;&#1493;&#1499;&#1492; &#1500;&#1489;&#1497;&#1511;&#1493;&#1512;&#1514; &#1512;&#1489;&#1492; &#1502;&#1512;&#1493;&#1489; &#1492;&#1510;&#1497;&#1489;&#1493;&#1512; &#1492;&#1502;&#1494;&#1512;&#1495;&#1497;

There are various social activists (for example, some members of the Mizrahi Democratic Rainbow) who suggest calling Mizrahim: Arab Jews, that is, Jews originating from Arab countries [sic.] and not "Mizrahim", which is a category that in their opinion was created by the Askenazi institution who ruled the country. But this phrase is not prevalent in Israeli ethnic discourse, and recieves much criticism from the majority of the Mirzahi public. he El_C 11:36, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

etymology of Wisconsin rewrite
Thanks! --Whimemsz 22:58, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

Red Cedar River
Thanks for that... I'm moving the disambiguation page (it's currently called Red Cedar River, Michigan, which seems odd when it points to both Michigan and Wisconsin!) Grutness...  wha?  06:38, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Um...actually Red Cedar River, Michigan was a mistake. I moved it thereafter to Red Cedar River (Michigan), after I realized that the apparent norm for rivers and other geographical features requiring disambiguation is by the use of parentheses, rather than by commas, which are used apparently for municipalities.  I'm not an admin, so I can't remove the redirect at Red Cedar River, Michigan, which, as I said, according to naming norms, looks like a municipality, which it is not meant to.  bleh.  :-p

Well, according to US naming norms, anyway (if it had been where I am - New Zealand - there would have been no problem, since all places here use commas :). I am an admin though, so I could do the changes, and it should be all fixed now. The disambig is now at Red Cedar River, and Red Cedar River, Michigan redirects to Red Cedar River (Michigan). Grutness...  wha?  07:43, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Massacree VfD
Thought you might want to vote at Votes for deletion/List of massacres committed during the Al-Aqsa Intifada. Cheers! -- BD2412 talk 14:06, 2005 Jun 15 (UTC)

VfD of User:Cantors
Shalom Tomer: Under extradordinarily confusing circumstances, I have nominated the User:Cantors page for deletion of contents and also renaming. See Votes for deletion/Cantors. Thank you. IZAK 03:33, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Categ for deletion
Hi Tomer: Please see: Categories for deletion/Log/2005 June 17. Thank you and Shabbat Shalom. IZAK 07:03, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ishmael
From what I've read, I know that Christianity refers to the Ishmaelites. The Ishmaelites are said to have married with the local North Arabian tribes and thus became the "Arabized" Arabs. Certainly, Islam clarified Ishmael's connections to the Arabs and said that Muhammad was his descendant, but that's not the point. I think it is a pretty popular view that Ishmael is the ancestor of the Arabs (although Arab is mostly a linguistic term nowadays). Either way, I don't view religious genealogies as being that relevant to modern times, thanks for your input though.Yuber(talk) 02:32, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * One more thing, I found your comment about the Ishmael POV somewhat strange. You say that it is a specific POV, but I can assure you that it is not.  The Ishmael page has been edited by many Jewish editors and none have found a problem with it.Yuber(talk) 03:15, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Vaitahu
hey... I thought I had appropriately fixed all redirects to point to the correct article rather than the disambig page. I certainly changed most of them, but apologies if there were some I overlooked! Cheers, UkPaolo 22:07, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * no worries! UkPaolo 08:48, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Downtown
I heard the same thing. I think even to this day it's not used widely outside North America. When I was in Dublin I was once corrected when I said "downtown" -- "It's called 'city centre' here," they said. I think that term is used in Britain as well (except maybe in London where it's just called The City). Also in Berlin the English word "city" is used to mean downtown: "Ich fahre in die City" means "I'm going downtown" (as distinct from "Ich fahre in die Stadt", which just means "I'm going to the city" from someplace outside of it). One of the oldest quotes in the OED, from 1835, clearly refers to New York: "To-day when I go down town I shall subscribe for the 'New York Observer' for you." --Angr/undefined 05:50, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * we wouldn't typically use downtown in the UK... it would be classed as very American! You're correct in saying that we'd just go "into town" or "into the city" (centre being somewhat optional). And yes, the centre of London is "The City". UkPaolo 08:51, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

"Bet"(ter dead or alive?)
Shalom Tomer, please see revert history at Bet (letter). Is not the Hebrew language a vibrant living language whereas Phoenicia is a dead civilization and its language is an Extinct language? (As proof, see List of extinct languages where the Phoenician languages are in the "extinct" column.) Thanks. IZAK 09:14, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Phobia
Relax. My skin is pretty thick. I've been around here for quite some time. My remark about POV was not because I felt offended, but because I've seen lots of misuse and misunderstanding of the term in terms of wikipedia policies. Talk pages and various votes are the designated pages for POV pushing. There is nothing wrong with pushing POV as long as it does not lead to edit wars and disrespect to other's POV.

The rest moved to Talk:Phobia. mikka (t) 15:37, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

My error
Yes, thanks for fixing that. Although there's a lot to learn about collaboration from Improv as well, so I should probably check out the page. Peace, BrandonYusufToropov 16:10, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Radhanite
I've placed the Radhanite article up for peer review. Your comments and criticism would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! --Briangotts 19:40, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yuber
Yes, it should, and I considered doing it, but I think maybe only arbcom members are allowed to edit that. Anyway, Yuber was told about it, continued editing anyway, and was therefore blocked for 24 hours. SlimVirgin (talk) 05:39, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)


 * Sure, good idea. SlimVirgin (talk) 05:44, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

The relatively large Jewish community of Timbuktu was forced, in 1492, to convert to Islam, or to flee, under pain of death, from the city.
Hey Tomer, where did you get this information from? Jayjg (talk) 4 July 2005 17:38 (UTC)

Trying something at Apartheid
Please don't try that; only admins should use the template. The feeling on Talk: is that enough editors can hold the anon at bay without protecting the page. Jayjg (talk) 4 July 2005 17:58 (UTC)

Straw Poll
No, I am not inclined to vote for either version. I am completely persuaded by the argument that the discussion should start from 1948. The early colonists are not relevant - they didn't create the Apartheid laws. The whole "scientific racism" fallacy is a creation of the late 19th and 20th century --Red King 6 July 2005 16:33 (UTC)

RE: Tuamotu Stubs
Hey thanks! I really wasn't sure how to stub them, since they're quite a bit outside my normal area of expertise (I was looking at Sir Hugh Palliser, and sort of fell into it). I will correctly stub them in future, and thanks again for catching my mistake. All the best, --Scimitar 5 July 2005 13:38 (UTC)

Disclaimer
Just so you know that this anon is viewed my me and other Poles as a troll and vandal as well. Please don't think we support his attacks and accusations in anyway whatsoever. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 5 July 2005 16:26 (UTC)

Add your formal vote at the vfd and WORD it
Hi Tomer, at Votes for deletion/Anti-Polonism you did not cast a "formal" vote after you presented the reasons for the article's deletion etc. It's always important to place your formal vote and word it accurately (i.e. "Delete", "Rename", ""Redirect", "Merge", or whatever it is you are suggesting be done with the article) and then sign it even though you already signed the opening statement. This way, those who agree with you on this vote, as I do in this case, also know how to word the vote they are supposed to be voting against, and nothing will get lost in the shuffle. IZAK 6 July 2005 09:38 (UTC)


 * You may be interested in knowing that Witkacy has been working hard to find all extant cases of international anti-Polonism, (see User:Witkacy/sandbox). So far, the best examples he's collected are comments from Ted Turner, Howard Stern, and Leslie Stahl. He's also gotten comments from two (!) politicians: (1.) Michael Howard (politician), a conservative British MP, who once mentioned that his aunt survived a "Polish concentration camp." (2.) The far-left, anti-Zionist, Israel Shahak (who was notorious for fabricating information and who the ADL condemned for anti-Semetic polemics) claimed that Yitzhak Shamir said "Poles suck anti-Semitism from their mothers," or something like that. This quote is found nowhere else online. I find it strange to write specific articles for any of various manifestations of regional prejudice and hatred, when such manifestations are a dime-a-dozen. As for the evidence of international anti-Polonism, I notice a pathetic dearth of it, and anti-Polish jokes are no more common internationally than anti-Italian, anti-Latino, anti-Chinese, anti-French, etc. If I mention this in the VfD, however, I will probably have a number of editors smugly implicating me with "anti-Polonism" (as has already happened on the VfD). HKT 8 July 2005 19:06 (UTC)

Awarded for Spirited Defense of the Mysterious Cabal which Rules Wikipedia, the Media, International Finance, and the Garment District
28th of Sivan, 5765. You should live and be well, mit gezunt und parnasseh und mishpocha und chaim tovim, cainaynhora peh peh. (You should mine spelling excuse, please). Gzuckier 6 July 2005 03:33 (UTC)

Wow
Nice catch on the typo! Thanks! (I don't mind at all- the less people who know how illiterate I am, the better!)--Scimitar 6 July 2005 14:20 (UTC)

Mikkalai
I have started a RFC on Mikkalai's behavior. Floopy 7 July 2005 01:03 (UTC)

You will never guess this...
Hi Tomer: I thought of you when I clicked on this one: Polish Army...see what the "Polish Army" turns into, to the chagrin (maybe) of English-speaking Wikipedian linguistic puritanicalism. Another day another lark on Wikipedia. Just proves my point, that Wikipedia is truly an "open" encyclopedia. IZAK 7 July 2005 12:34 (UTC)

Crimean Karaites
What's the policy on this tag thing? Can I just remove it? If I do will I be subject to some kind of sanctions? Is there a procedure to follow? --Briangotts 8 July 2005 17:51 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. Shabbat Shalom. --Briangotts 8 July 2005 18:00 (UTC)

Have you seen the latest on the Talk page? They now want to expand their war to all Karaite-related articles. The "modest proposal" is so laughably extreme that I am impressed by its audacity. This is getting ludicrously out of hand. --Briangotts 21:36, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Witkacy WP:POINT
It looks like User:Witkacy is setting himself up for an RfC at a minimum. Jayjg (talk) 8 July 2005 22:35 (UTC)

RfC on Striver
Did I do this right? Does someone second it? []BrandonYusufToropov 9 July 2005 09:54 (UTC)

Babel-12?!
Hey there - 12 languages, holy cow! It's not a competition! :) --Moritz 16:43, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm impressed. Jayjg (talk) 05:05, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
 * 14??? Now you're just showing off. :-P Jayjg (talk) 05:23, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for cluing me in on Polish topics
It was easy to vote on the Wojsko Polskie issue, the other two are going to take more thought. Grika 19:05, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Have you seen what's happening at Mahmoud Ahmadinejad?
Turns out the  Jews  are behind everything. Jayjg (talk) 05:08, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

I have no idea who Pilz is; never heard of him before this article. But I agree with you about the pathetic nature of it all, particularly when you read the edit summaries and Talk: comments as well. Jayjg (talk) 05:38, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

ב
That's great, but looking at Category:Hebrew alphabet I see ב is the only one. For consistency, surely all the other articles should be moved from their transliterated names to their Hebrew characters too, right? And once that's done, I think a Hebrew alphabet template might be nice... --Angr/undefined 05:53, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I think you should approach him about it. I've had nothing to do with the issue other than making the one suggestion. --Angr/undefined 05:59, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Camelids template
It's definitely more attractive. Careful it doesn't spit on you. Jayjg <sup style="color:darkgreen;">(talk) 06:00, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, I hope it put you in a good humour; you'll need it once you see what TheUnforgiven just did to Palestinian. Jayjg <sup style="color:darkgreen;">(talk) 06:09, 13 July 2005 (UTC)