User talk:TShilo12/Archive 3

"Get well soon"
Hey Tomer, hope you get back soon. Like you told me before: don't let trolls get to you. Cheers. --Moritz 09:27, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

FrenchPolynesia-geo-stub
Hi Tomer - Geo-stubs are often being debated for possible further split at WikiProject Stub sorting/Criteria, and I seem to have become a sort of de facto "keeper of the geo-stubs" (I did a lot of the initial splitting by countries, and have kept track of how many there are in many of the larger "grouped" geo-stubs need splitting into smaller regions. In the case of French Polynesia, over 30% of the Oceania stubs were from these, so it made sense to split it that way (splits tend to go ahead when a new category would have 60-80 stubs minimum). As to the name, the abbreviation would have been easier to use, but the wikiproject tends to avoid them in case they're ambiguous. Thanks for your offer of help, BTW - if you're willing to help move stubs between categories any time, the WikiProject criteria page I mentioned above is the best place to see what is being split and will need moving! Cheers, Grutness...  wha?  07:21, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * :) That happens sometimes when there';s one busy editor working on a particular country. If Trinidad and Tobago gets its own stub template (which it may do - there are about 60 geo-stubs from there), it'll all be User:Guettarda's doing - so it doesn't surprise me if there was a busy FP editor at work! Grutness...  wha?  07:43, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Hi again - I think, since all the Marquesas are part of French Polynesia, those articles should just be marked with the Marquesas category, and that whole category should be a subcategory of the French Polynesia one, rather than the individual articles being linked directly to both categories. As to the threshold, that's not for categories overall, that's just for stub categories (and it's a guideline rather than a hard-and-fast rule), since stub categories are used by editors rather than general readers, there are different guidelines for them. There's no point having a stub category with only a handful of articles in it, and there's also no point having one that's so big that editors can't find what they want to edit, so the stub sorting wikiproject uses approximate guidelines of between about 60 and 600 articles as being reasonable size for a stub category that's going to be helpful to editors. If a stub category has over 600 items, we look to split it into more useful subcategories. If a potential category has under 60, it doesn't get made. That's why the oceania stubs were all in one category rather than having separate ones for all the individual countries. Grutness...  wha?  08:57, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * It's all discussed over at the page I mentioned before - WikiProject Stub sorting/Criteria. But, to be honest, I don't know how much support you'd get for the idea. It's a good one, but so much of the geo-stub splitting's already been done that I'm not sure how the splits you're proposing would fit in with the current scheme. And with over 40,000 geo-stubs in total from all countries, it would be a hell of a job to re-do them all! I agree that it means some countries will probably never get their own categories, but they'll still be in small enough categories that it will be easier to find them The three Tokelau ones, for instance (which I wrote, BTW :) will be in a category with only about 150 other stubs, so they should still be easy for editors to find, and they're there with other closely connected countries like Niue and the Cook Islands.. Grutness...  wha?  09:14, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Vandelism of the antisemitism page
I am extremely disgusted with your recent vandelism of good work on the antisemitism page; especially your erasure of scholarly links from the link section. I demand that at the very least you reinsert the links immediately!!! I will post this on the talk page as well. Sirkumsize 06:38, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Rfa
Okay, I'll bite. Yes, you probably would be a good candidate for rfa. You do seem to be a trouble-magnet, but that's partly the areas you work in (comments like the one immediately above here, for instance). You seem to remain calm in most situations, although a couple of them are a little bit of a worry (Wikipedia:Administrators%27 noticeboard#Jayjg - Tshilo12, for instance, although The Unforgiven does seem trollish). Having looked at your edits, though, there's nothing that either my current partner's ancestry or my ex's would complain about (Alice's matrilineal line's surname is Rosenbrock - east London Jewish; Lisa's father - a Polish Catholic - spent WWII in Dachau). If you want to be nominated, I'd be happy to do so... oh, and what is the "Igor test"? Grutness...  wha?  08:42, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

VFD
You voted at VFD on Authentic Matthew.

You said "Disputes about the additions to Matthew etc. go back to the time of the canonization of the NT".

I agree.

This is already discussed, or should be, at Biblical canon and Gospel of Matthew and Gospel of the Hebrews and Gospel of the Ebionites and Gospel of the Nazarenes.

But Authentic Matthew does not discuss this. It is an original research essay. All the worthwhile content (of which there was very little) has already been merged to the above articles, and the vast source text (which shouldn't go in articles anyway) is already at WikiSource.

I would appreciate it if you gave some thought to revisiting your vote. 20:03, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Template:Coor
can you look into reducing the spacing between the dimensions (°'") and the directions (NEWS)? for example, 10.05°N, -8.25°W shows up as [redacted], instead of 10°3′E 8°15′S although I think even that amount of spacing is a bit excessive.  Tomer TALK  21:18, July 18, 2005 (UTC)


 * It looks like the current format actually matches the Manual of Style for coordinates. I tend also to agree with that standard, as I think it is very clear.  You might want to bring this up on the talk page of the MoS. Otherwise, I'd be happy to help :). -- Netoholic @ 21:35, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Prime and double-prime are the standard symbols for minutes and seconds. ' and " are just approximations used frequently. -- Netoholic @ 22:14, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Jews in China
Nope, not yet. -- ran (talk) 12:45, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Responded to your comment
Responded to your comment on my talk page. Kurt Weber 01:11, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

TfD on Template:Sofixit
First of all, I'd like to say that I am sorry that the trolls are getting to you. That is one of the bigger problems on the Wikipedia (along with a few regular Wikipedia editors who are problem editors and revert warriors). The list of subject matter that seems to be "troll bait" on the Wikipedia seems to be rather large and growing. Sometimes even what I would have thought was the most innocent of topics can attract wackos, kooks and trolls.

As for Template:Sofixit: Although the rewrite is better, I would personally rather see it die and then be resurrected as something much kinder and gentler (and with a new, less snide name). My wording would be something like:


 * Thank you for your suggestion. Since this is a Wiki that anyone can edit, one of our regular, helpful user-editors will probably take up your suggestion, but what you've suggested is also something that you can fix yourself. Editing a Wikipedia page is very simple&mdash;just click the "Edit this page" tab&mdash;and there are only a few essential formatting codes that are very easy to learn. Here's a good page for learning the Basic essentials of editing the Wikipedia and if you have any questions feel free to contact me on my Talk page. Blank Verse   &empty;  07:23, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

As far as I know, there isn't a really good page on the Wikipedia that presents the minimum Basic essentials for editing the Wikipedia, so that page may have to be created. I see that as something probably very similar to some of the Welcome templates different users have created. The most important thing (and the biggest difference from the sofixit template), is that at the end of the template it has the person adding the template go the extra step by offering to help. Blank Verse  &empty;  07:23, 21 July 2005 (UTC)


 * My big problem with the template, and the reason that I was the one who nominated it for deletion the first time, is that I have seen it used too many times where it was obvious that the intent of the use was to say "Hey clueless Noob, fix it yourself". Since I'm the only non-anon editor who has voted to delete during the current TFD sofixit is not going to get deleted this time either. What's worse, a few more people have found out about it and are going to start using it. With that in mind, I will support any and all efforts to rewrite, redesign, and gentlefy that template.


 * You can see in my version that I've tried to keep it as simple as possible, and with as few links as possible. I think that even the latest rewrite has too many links which I think will just confuse and intimidate new editors, and it has too many in-phrases like Be Bold, which I think will also confuse any new editors. All of that information, layed out in a simple, bulleted format, should be on the Basics page (Basic editing information?). Blank Verse   &empty;  08:02, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Also, I agree with you idea that there really needs to be some basic GUIDE for editing on the Wikipedia. I can remember first making suggestions on article Talk pages because I was too intimidated to try to do the edits myself (and the editors on those pages were much too nice to use sofixit)). And then later trying to find out how to do things where you learned a little bit on one page, and then a little bit more on another page, and then you were referred to a page that explained absolutely everything you needed to know about XYZ as long as you already knew a little about ABC.

Well, this being a Wiki, the only way that page is going to be written is if you write it, or you and I write it. ;-) Blank Verse   &empty;  08:02, 21 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I am willing to help out, but right now I am trying to get the Southern California WikiProject going, so I will be spending more time on that effort. The Welcoming committee is the most logical place to look for more participants. Blank Verse   &empty;  06:36, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Wisc-stub
''Hey Grutness (do you have a less abrasive sounding name?), you may or mayn't have noticed I created Template:Wisc-stub and a corresponding Category:Wisconsin stubs, based off Texas-stub and the corresponding category. If that was completely out of line, please thwap me GENTLY.''
 * Consider this a gentle thwap, then! You should go through WP:WSS/C, and at the very least keep to the naming guidelines. Which would make it Wisconsin-stub (hope you don't mind - I've redirected your template there). I've added the new template to the big list, though. Most of the region type stubs are more hassle than they're worth to get rid of once they're made. Just make sure you don't use it for geographical items like towns, river, etc, but only for items relating to the state in general (state history, symbols and the like), in the same way as Texas-stub and Hawaii-stub. Geographical templates are all XX-geo-stub, and are all more strictly controlled as far as their creation is concerned (Wisconsin is still a long way down the list of next creation there, too - have a look at User:Grutness/Geo-stub tallying. Oh, and it's James, BTW :). Grutness...  wha?  09:39, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

''OK, then, James. I think it should be pretty clear from the work Sasquatch and I have done, that the Wisconsin template is not meant to be a substub of US-midwest-geo-stub. I highly doubt that the time will ever come that there will be enough Wisconsin geo-stubs to ever support an independent geo-stub cat. That said, however, I don't think it's beyond belief to imagine that there are potentially sufficient stubs to warrant a separate Wisc-stub. That said, I only chose Wisc-stub instead of Wisconsin-stub bcz Wisc is basically univerally recognizable (for people who care, at least) as a shortened form of Wisconsin-stub and in that light, as a convenience to contributors, I went with it. In that light, while "Texas" is pretty-easily spelled, I would be willing to guess that the vast majority of Americans would be befuddled were they asked to spell "Wisconsin", to say nothing of "Massachusetts" (Massatwoshits), "Connecticut" (Conneddicut), "Tennessee" (Tennis Sea), and/or even "Rhode Island" (Road Island). Without going out of my way too far to belittle American typographiqueurs, nor wishing to stand trial for my belittling certain (Mass of Two Shits) states, so I chose to go with an abbreviation that is not only widely used, but almost universally recognized. Where do you live, btw? Kwinslund?''
 * Oh dear... I'm already in trouble with one Argentinian because I put his redirect at AR-geo-stub up for deletion... It's just standard stub-sorting practice to use the full name... and Wisconsin's certainly no more difficult than many states and places. "Universally recognised" is always a tricky one, too, because you may think so, but I'm sure that a lot of people in different parts of the world have never heard it used. I've had a look at the category, and there are a lot of geo-stubs there - I'd ask you if possible to do the same thing I've asked at Texas stubs and other categories like that - double-stub. Wisconsin could well eventually get its own geo-stub category, but as stub sorters we won't know it needs one unless the geo-stubs are in the US-midwest-geo-stub category to be counted (oops - didn't notice you'd already dealt with that. Good - thanks!. it's got over 40 geo-stubs, and we're using 80 as a cutt-off mark, so it's already more than half way there, and stubs are created at a huge rate. Also, a lot of people search for articles to improve based on geography, so it's useful for the editors. if you want to mark them as wisconsin items too, that's fine. But as for "Kwinslund", that's a gross insult! Never accuse a New Zealander of being Australian! Bleargh! (I'm from here) Grutness...  wha?  09:55, 21 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Apologies if my tone seemed insulting - it was not intended to be so. And it does look like everything about the category and the way it is used is perfectly good as far as everything stubsortingesque is concerned, for which much thanks. I still believe that Wisconsin-stub is a more natural name, since the state's full name is the one most likely to be recognised everywhere, but it looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on that. The easiest way to see whether a category exists, BTW, is to look at the list of stub categories, either at WP:WSS/ST or Template messages/Stubs, or in Category:Stub categories, rather than using trial and error on a template name. (More beautiful than Dunedin? Never! ;) Grutness...  wha?  10:14, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you're right - it would be easier if there was some sort of link to all the templates/categories, but there's only so much you can do to a stub template before it gets unwieldy. it does link to Stub, which has all the info, but it's sort of "click here to click there so you can link to that", which isn't exactly the best way of doing things. As to lawyer-prone Jewish support for precedence, can I that plead my support for what doesn't instantly seem logical is due to my irish ancestry? :) (I thought you were going to bed...) Grutness...  wha?  10:32, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

''Going to bed laddy? Woat in bloaddy ell da geeven ye det eddia?''
 * Oy vey - to bed, already ;) Grutness...  wha?  10:54, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

WikiProject Wisconsin
Good job on the implementation of the Wisconsin-stub. What do you say we start WikiProject Wisconsin? Cheers. --BaronLarf 21:15, July 24, 2005 (UTC)

RE: Wisc Area Codes
Howdy. I wrote most of the info from personal knowledge. (I currently live in the 414 area code, have all my live, so I remember when 920, 262, and 414 were all 414.) As far as the dates, I don't exactly remember my sources, but I found them with a google search. As far as the rest of Wisc, unfortunatly, I don't know that much about them, so I would have to do as much research as the next wikipedian, unless they happen to live in those areas... -slowpokeiv 22:27, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

Hmmmm...
... that's cool. I only ever divide up the vote when there is significant contention over the article :-) Ta bu shi da yu 05:04, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Cemetery
Obviously typing on here with a spell checker breeds spelling mistakes, at least for me. You know any way of changing the spelling of a category without starting over? (see my page for the misspelled categories. --Noitall 15:13, July 25, 2005 (UTC)


 * You were very helpful. Thank you and well done!  --Noitall 21:53, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

Poland-bias
Do you really think that it would just be prudent to warn people not to believe anything about Poland or Poland-related articles on WP? As an editor who has brought up more then 10 Polish-releted articles to FA (including fairly controversial subjects like Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Polish-Soviet War, Władysław Sikorski, Polish September Campaign and History of Poland (1945-1989)) I cannot agree with such an accusation that Poland-related articles are biased. You are devaluating close to two years of my work, and many more by other contributors. Or are you implying that Polish-biased editors have taken over Peer Review, FAC and VfD sections? If you see bias in articles, there are ways to correct it - via editing preferably, VfDing and FARCing in other cases. If VfD or other voting goes not to your liking, please consider that it is not a global conspiracy targeting your views, but that possibility exists it was you who was in error. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 18:32, 25 July 2005 (UTC)


 * As I wrote, I took the 'Prokonsul' nickname because of a poem, not becouse it implies authority. Long time ago I thought whether to use nick or real name on the net, and decided to use the 'best of both worlds' instead. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 20:39, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Check your facts
Tomer, check your facts and edit history: 1) the edit you made was broken and didn't work - I see now for sure that you forgot a hyphen, but it's not my job to read your mind; 2) I am trying to deal with a 344 edit noob who doesn't understand how categories work, and has clogged the pedia with Copyvio articles. So cool it. Fawcett5 05:50, 26 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Apologies about being slow getting back to you, the User:LaLa situation has been a big timewaster, I've hardly made a constructive edit all day. In your instance, I conceed I was a bit too hasty with the rollback button, but I was honestly unsure of your intentions. Notice that I did NOT subsequently rv any of the properly formated stubs that I subsequently noticed popping up on other rail articles I monitor (I have ~5000 pages on my watch list so sometimes it takes awhile to notice things). In User:LaLa's case, indication was clearly made on his talk page why numerous rollbacks were being made. It is still my opinion though that it is a bad idea to add the Wisconsin stub to things like railroad articles. My rationale is guided by the following quote from WP:Stub:


 * In general, the naming convention for stub templates is topic-stub; for a complete list of these templates, refer to Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub types. When marking articles as stubs, please be as precise and accurate as you possibly can - it saves other editors a lot of work further down the road. If an article overlaps two potential categories, two different stub templates may be used, but using more than two is strongly discouraged.

The problem, of course, is that some railroads might travel through 20 states...and it is certainly undesirable to have a geographic stub for each state. And having a state-stub for a railroad is in any case terribly imprecise. Cheers, Fawcett5 04:23, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Learn something everyday
Interesting, I had no idea that Miscellania is not a word, although it gets many hits.. but you are right, it is not in OED. Instead I find "miscellanea", which doesn't seem to be much used in modern usage. But I'll make the change. Fawcett5

Sickle Cell Anemia
So as not to get drawn into the User:Titus70AD debate (nice, non-provocative name), I thought I'd mention it here. Sickle cell anemia does not only affect Black Africans - it is prevalent everywhere around the Medeterrianian, including Greece, Italy, and Saudi Arabia. --Goodoldpolonius2 21:18, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Your friends and your kickbacks...
User_talk:Thorsten1 Are you already made an admin by Jayjg and affiliated Jew-posse(pussy)? TheUnforgiven 23:10, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

If you only pursued the benefit of Wikipedia by NPOV additions and without the consolidation of a faux "community consensus" by your friends with like mind, then I would have no objection to your presence at this website. Claiming that you are aggrieved by my actions, are like some kid smacking a dog, getting bit and then having his kids sue the owner. While you and your friends who are here to push your POV for whatever self-opinionated reasons, you also don't stop attacking other edits that deviate from your ideal. I did not come to this website to attack you, just to add NPOV and subtract POV informations. You and your agenda-bound posse are here with your feuds a la Middle East soap operas. Why can't you people just leave the rest of us alone? Why is your business always in our lives, in the media and why can't you learn consideration for others? For all the times you cry persecution and demand compensation, you cannot fathom how you are undeserving of any care for such woe. I don't want to hear about Jews, Muslims and Nazis. I want to hear about things that matter to me, which have nothing to do with your teenage drama plastered all over and about the world. I don't want to hear about you and your kind in my face. Freud(sex freak) and Einstein(WMD inventor) were shams, just like Wolfowitz and Sharon. I am a descendent of Crusaders and thus find no interest in any Muslim either. Nazi eugenics are just as bad as miscegenation. You lot are histrionic idiots in love with your own attention. What would you all do in a world that did not focus on your bullshit? You'd think G-d would have forsaken you? User_talk:Grutness

http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2667822?htv=12 TheUnforgiven 23:32, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Hey Jude, I am not Polish as Witkacy is. I'm just a guy concerned in how people are treated and wish for it to be done fairly. You and your ethnocentric fascists get what's coming. You can't honestly be so daft and try to ruse me over. Playing stupid earns no friends. Got it? TheUnforgiven 23:42, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Like I said, you personally encouraging unhappy circumstances should garner no sympathy, unless it is your ambulence-chasing friends and left-liberals who will attack anybody not falling into step with the party line. Do what you like...but don't whine when feeling sorry for yourself. TheUnforgiven 23:50, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

While you incite this hatred, be sure to tease a real lion while inside its cage. Everything will be all right...Seriously, you won't grow up and be a man. Waah! Tattletales aren't cool! Did your parents drop you on your head as a child? Or, is this Tay-Sachs disease? Please enlighten my ignorance as to what drives you to bring on the heartbreak... TheUnforgiven 23:57, 26 July 2005 (UTC)


 * You've got to be f'n kidding me. --Briangotts (talk) 03:11, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Category:Burials at the United States Naval Academy Cemetary
Just for the record, you actually followed the correct procedure for this; the CFR tag is for categories where the renaming is potentially a matter of debate. It's not for categories that need to be renamed to fix a spelling error; the proper procedure in those cases is to just make the change. Bearcat 17:38, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Simeon ben Shetach
I copied this over with a few minor changes and wikification from the Jewish Encyc. I could use some help with it when you have time, and please pass it on to whoever else might be interested. --Briangotts (talk) 00:48, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Sjakkalle's dictatorial move
Hello Tomer: Can you please research and re-open the ridiculous move by User:Sjakkalle. I have sent him this message: Hi Sjak: Kindly explain your math please at Votes for deletion/Religious persecution by Jews: 34 "keeps" is better than 66 "deletes"...the "deletes" had almost DOUBLE the votes and you decide against them? This makes no sense! I will call on others to object to your dictatorial move! IZAK 10:57, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Reopening the VfD

 * Hi, User:Danny has called for the VfD to be re-opened. See Talk:Religious persecution by Jews, please voice your opinion. Thanks, and be well. IZAK 12:22, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Found Home
Thanks, TShilolz, found the project and the time stamp. Kyle Andrew BrownTALKKyle Andrew Brown 23:26, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Talk:Anti-Semitism
Thank you very much. --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 04:34, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Yiddish Wikipedia
Hi TShilo12. As a Yiddish speaker, you might be interested in my half-baked plan to revitalize the moribund (only 121 articles) Yiddish Wikipedia. Please see my idea at Talk:Yiddish_language, and thanks.--Pharos 05:10, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

He's back
At Christianity and world religions. Jayjg (talk) 05:43, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Well, he's adamant. Maybe you can do something. Jayjg (talk) 06:30, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Bible verse - motion to close
I have proposed a formal closure of the poll - I wondered if you would care to second it --Doc (?) 10:15, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Ta, yes I missed the irony of voting not to vote anymore. --Doc (?) 10:21, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

eras
look, I'm not aware I have attacked anyone personally, or made a remark that was tangential or offtopic. I may not be informed on the entire history of this, but my impression is based on recent events, especially on Elam. Anyway, I am off to a brief wikibreak now, and I authorize you to remove or strike out my comment as you see fit, just cite this diff. dab (&#5839;) 11:05, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

new vfd
The prior VFD that you voted at ended with no consensus, a new VFD has been opened at Votes for deletion/Historical persecution by Muslims. 18:52, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
 * In that case, I suppose it's only appropriate to open a new VfD on the others, too. HKT talk 19:18, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, I believe the "Christians" one was a clear keep. Just the "Jews," then. HKT talk 19:24, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Authentic Matthew - boring, but again

 * I recognise that there was no consensus to delete this article – and that is unlikely to change. But I still have grave concerns about it. The author’s insistence in linking it to other Biblical studies articles, is giving the impression of a scholarly theory that simply does not exist I did warn –Ril- that his involvement in the second re-listing was likely to be counterproductive  but to no avail. I am left wondering how many of the ‘keep’ votes were influenced by –Ril-‘s antics. But getting this article right is more important that –Ril-‘s behaviour.

Looking at the last vote Votes for deletion/Authentic Matthew 21d, 12k, 4m – I note that 4 of the ‘keep votes’ expressed a desire for a renaming. So that would indicate a 29-8 feeling that it was undesirable to have this article at this name. Is there room for an acceptable compromise? I’d like to move it to Possible origins of Matthew’s Gospel and place it the context of the real scholarly debate on Matthew. There would some overlap with both the Gospel of Matthew and Synoptic problem – but that I for one could live with. I could just ‘be bold’ and do this, but it is likely to be reverted, and I’m likely to get abuse, – so I’m looking for some agreement that this has a consensus – preferably from some of those who didn’t vote ‘delete’. Any comments? --Doc (?) 17:55, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Discuss at Talk:Authentic Matthew

Vandalism of History of South Africa in the apartheid era went undetected.
Hi -- I just noticed that some wholesale vandalism of the History of South Africa in the apartheid era a couple of days ago went undetected until today. An anon replaced the entire text of the article with the old text of the Apartheid article, including the bit about "diaspora Jews." Since this seems to have slipped under everyone's radar (including mine), and I don't know who has History of South Africa in the apartheid era on their watchlist, I thought I'd give you a heads up. --Bcrowell 18:26, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. I don't know why the article has suddenly been subjected to so much abuse in the last couple of days!--Bcrowell 03:22, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Black books
Both of them seem to be forgotten now, even Witkacy haven't edited any of them for almost a month. And good riddance, I say. Why raise the dead now? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 09:52, 31 July 2005 (UTC)


 * They have not been resurrected. One is simply a copy I made to protect it from admins who deleted it twice without any discussion and outside of the deletion procedures. The other was moved to my namespace by someone I don't know. Anyway, what's wrong with those archives being in my namespace? Halibutt 10:34, July 31, 2005 (UTC)


 * Tomer, I can't be held responsible for pages I'm not even watching through my watchlist. Whether such a page is needed or not is disputable. Some of us thought that such a project would be helpful in organizing racist remarks and communicating with their authors. The community decided otherwise and it's fine with me. However, if the page is still being used - it's none of my business, really. If you're so disturbed by that page and your name being listed there - contact the person to list you there. And you yourself probably admit that there is a grain of truth in that accusing the authors of the Anti-Polonism page (including yours truly) of being "brain-washed" just because they are Poles is not 100% right. Or perhaps that fits your moral scheme? Halibutt 12:21, July 31, 2005 (UTC)


 * Tomer, I did not mean to offend you in any way, just like you probably did not want to offend me by saying that I was brainwashed. If you feel you should not be listed there or feel all Poles are indeed brainwashed and you've been accused wrongly of racist remarks - contact User:Witkacy. If you feel that page shouldn't have been moved to my user space - contact User:Nohat who moved it there. If you feel that page should not be a part of wikipedia at all - contact the ones to take part in the deletion process. If I were an admin, I'd probably delete that page, but I'm not and indeed one of the admins moved it to where it is now. If you want to set the whole thing straight, I won't oppose to move that page to anywhere else. User:Witkacy/Black book? Halibutt 12:45, July 31, 2005 (UTC)


 * I am not suprised nobody has replied there. As Halibutt notes, after the VfD and move, the idea was mostly dead and most of us haven't even added them to watchlists, until today I didn't even know they were presereved anywhere. I understand you want to clear your name, but nonetheless you did made some sweeping generalisations regarding Poles (not that you were the first and only one, but it was your bad luck to be the wrong person in the wrong place near Witkacy's :D). I wouldn't count them as anti-Polonism, and a simple aplology would suffice (if I cared much... if I get a cent for every time I was offended on the net I would be rich...then, which one of us wouldn't :D). I would have no objections if after such an apology you would erase your name from those pages. Perhaps Halibutt, whose namespace they are now in, can merge and archive them somehow - or if he doesn't want them, I can simply delete them (although I think the intro and such can be saved for Jimbo's education idea, but since it seems nobody wants to work on this...well, I don't know what to do with this. I wont object to whatever you decide. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 13:18, 31 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Couldn't say it better myself. By the way, I asked Jimbo for clarification on what he actually means, but his idea of turning that project into some educative page is still obscure to me. Halibutt 14:34, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

Your offending behavior
yeah, it's clear that you have a problem with me - you are offending me again and again, since the Anti-Polonism voting (personal crusade that you have started with some other users). See all your quotes in my little sneaky notesik.--Witkacy 12:47, 31 July 2005 (UTC)


 * To make it short.. what is your problem now (the anti-Polonism voting is about one month ago) ?
 * P.S. please dont vandalize my notesik, thx.--Witkacy 21:26, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Zoroastrianism
You may be interested in participating in this vote. KHM03 15:36, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Witkacy et al.

 * Hi Tomer, I replied to your message on my user talk. Sorry about the delay. --Thorsten1 20:48, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Lincoln
I don't understand the distinction that is made between "named Lincoln" and "Lincoln in the name" if one does not refer to Abraham Lincoln, because all of them are named Lincoln and have Lincoln in the name. Was there some other distinction that I am not getting? --Noitall 22:48, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for your supportive words. Jayjg (talk) 00:28, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Are you anti-polish?
I ask this because you are listed at User:Witkacy/Black Book     ( ! | ? | * ) 22:32, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

A Pleasure

 * Always a pleasure, as a new Wikipedia user, I am really chuffed to see my (rather minor, so far) edits acknowledged by another user. I hope to do as much as possible for the Apartheid article as it is such a huge part of my country's history. P.S. How do you speak so many languages?! Thanks. --Banes 21:36, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Good work
I told you good work before for Lincoln. I put you on my User:Noitall page. I hope you don't mind. --Noitall 07:08, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

Busy night
You don't say! That latest one is done, by the way. Onwards and upwards. . SlimVirgin (talk) 12:18, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

Adminship
I have been nominated for adminship. Hope you will weigh in at. --Briangotts (talk) 23:41, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Vote for deletion
Hi, see Votes for deletion/Ritual Decalogue. Thank you. IZAK 09:32, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

''

Rude Boy
Any particular reason why you called Mandela a putz without signing. You are entitled to your opinion, no need to be ashamed. Banes 12:55, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Zoroastrianism
I think the term Indo-Iranian is just another way of claiming lineage. He responds to my last point acknowledging the Persians are the normal reference in general usage. As to his Ancient Egypt argumment, the West has always referred to it at that (ancient to distinguish from the country -- perhaps if it was called Ancient Iran I would not have the problem with it), and it is not a new term. Anyhow, what to do? --Noitall 02:42, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

"Indo-Iranian" is the formal term in Indo-European linguistics. It covers the period of time before Vedic (North Indian, pre-Hindu) and Persian culture seperated (i.e. immediately pre-Zoroastrian) - e.g. Indo-Iranian languages. It is extremely relevant in the article. ( ! | ? | * ) 14:11, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Babel
Just saying Congrats! You know more languages than anyone else who uses Babel. Redwolf24 07:16, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Ok
Ok, thats fine. I thought is was deliberate at first, it seems not. Banes 07:58, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Image:Niftymosque.PNG
Because it's a small, badly drawn picture that has no use in an encyclopedia. Put it in an article where it's useful, and I'll withdraw my nomination. --Taejo 12:00, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I was overzealous. IFD withdrawn. I thought I'd checked the links. --Taejo 12:09, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Anti Polonism
I just saw, that the whole crap is back on Wiki again. This disturbs me, cause the thing is wrong at all. Do I have to life with that? As a German studying history its disgusting what I have to read about middle- and eastern European history here. Its very interesting that they bring up so silly stuff when they have something serious in that section to offer. The funny thing is that they blame everyone in the western hemisphere! There must be a deep lack of self confidence in some Polish heads. I have learned to life with the stereotype of being a Nazi- grandchild, but I will not accept the picture painted about Germany today! Tell me what I can do to bring that “off the table”. However, I have something about the “facts” mentioned in the article.
 * 1. Its not forbidden to teach, learn or use Polish language.
 * 2. You can use any kind of language in Germany, cause this is a free country.
 * 3. Harald Schmidt is a comedian, and he tells jokes for living. He makes jokes about everything. He didn't receive awards for being anti-Polish, but for being funny.
 * 4. There are jokes about Poland in German society, but there are much more jokes about Holland, and I never heard them cry like they do. Maybe its cause they have self respect, confidence and humour! By the way, I have friends from Poland and they told me some jokes used against Germans and they where rude too, but even funny - that’s the way humour works. It would be interesting to see what you would say if the subject of “Austin Powers” wasn’t Dutch but Polish.
 * 5. Go to witch war you like nobody cares.
 * 6. Nobody in Germany says that Poland started the war, cause we know well about history - it's on you now to learn something about the modern German society.
 * 7. We know even about the 5 million Poles that lost their life’s during war, and we know even that it was nearly 25% of the population - this was terribly wrong, and we apologized for that with deep respect for the victims.
 * 8. Erika Steinbach isn't a famous politician nor is she popular. In fact she isn't a politician at all.
 * 9. You don't know anything about German history or present Germany, so don't try to teach.
 * 10. This article is anti- German and it doesn't help in establishing good relations between our nations.
 * 11.Writing articles like that can really cause some Anti- Polonism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.89.66.2 (talk • contribs) Aug. 9, 2005


 * I don't know why you're writing this to me...you're preaching to the choir. Tomer TALK  02:39, August 10, 2005 (UTC)


 * Just wanted to say thanks, once again, for your recent comments on Talk:Anti-Polonism. --Thorsten1 20:03, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Hello, Tomer, I've just read your comments in []. I agree with some points there, but I did not find anything that could enhace my refactorisation in the talk page. You seem to be strongly in favour of No, it doesn't and The article should be short sections. Could you add any additional arguments to these sections? In particular, contrarguments for those in the opposing sections? Alx-pl 21:03, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Belarusian Ridge
To answer your question, the last group of uplands do not have a name AFAIK. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 05:34, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your support
Thank you for voting to support my RFA. I've been promoted, and I promise to wield the mop with good faith, patience, and fairness... except when I'm exterminating vandals with the M-16 recoilless nuclear Gatling mop. --malathion talk 08:01, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Passover disambig or what?
Hi Tomer: Please take a look at Passover, which someone has decided to make into a "disambiguation" page so that anyone looking for the link to "Passover" on Wikipedia (and there are many areticles with links to it) will now get a Jewish and Christian version/choice. Do you agree to this move and what can be done? As far as I know, Passover is strictly a Jewish holiday and it is most certainly NOT an official Christian holiday AFAIK. Thanks. IZAK 11:56, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks!
Thank you so much for the mazel tov! I truly appreciate it. After that RfA, I need a real vacation. :) See you 'round...stay in touch! - Lucky 6.9 20:05, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your support on my recent RFA, and your nice comemnts, too. Please let me know if I can help you out with any administrative tasks, or if you have any problems with the use of the admin tools. It's been fun working with you on WP:WPWI. Cheers. --BaronLarf 13:03, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

Suitable viewing for English Wikipedia?
Food for thought: I've just stumbled across Category:Japanese television series, Category:Polish television series, and Category:German television series. As far as I know, English Wikipedia doesn't have categories for any other non-English-language television series. Should it? I'd consider only the Japanese series cat. notable, given that many Japanese cartoons end up in English-speaking countries. Aren't the others cruft? I'm questioning whether this is indeed en.wikipedia, despite the web address at the top of my browser. :\ HKT talk 22:06, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I see that there are also categories for Finland, Greece, Mexico, Korea, Singapore and Sweden (and lions and tigers and bears, oh my)! "Hector the multi-nationaphobe" talk01:38, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Tawbah and Islamic phrases
I saw your edit summary on Tawbah ("there is no such thing as an Islamic phrase"). You might want to check out List of Islamic terms in Arabic. Thanks. freestylefrappe 00:25, August 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * I didnt disagree with your edit per se, I just thought you should know that there is such a thing. :) freestylefrappe 00:48, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

Nablus
I've responded on the Nablus page, although I'm a bit confused about what you're arguing for: The re-direction of the Shechem page to the Nablus page, the inclusion of Shchem with Nablus in the opening paragraph on equal footing, or both? Thanks Ramallite (talk) 01:49, 11 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I definitely wasn't calling you an American Jewish religious zealot because, as you rightly claimed, I don't know you at all. So my apologies if I came off sounding harsh that way. We do have a sensitivity about American religious Zionists, however, because the majority of the religious settlers who are adamant about their exclusive claim to the land (and transfer of Palestinians) who appear on Israeli TV have American accents, and are sometimes called (the Brooklyn people) by both Palestinians and Israelis (at least the ones I know). And boy do they demonize us to no end. So I guess I had those thoughts in the back of my mind while writing, but was not in any way trying to be personal at all and I apologize once again for that. Ramallite (talk) 03:23, 11 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I should also clarify on the Nablus page. Thanks Ramallite (talk) 03:44, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Bible verses
Why did you move Bible verses to an archive page, and then redirect the main page to the archive? The vote isn't even over. This makes no sense, I suggest undoing your move or at least commenting at the discussion page. Christopher Parham (talk) 04:13, 2005 August 11 (UTC)


 * Nevermind, it's been undone. Christopher Parham (talk) 04:25, 2005 August 11 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the explanation, how stupid of me not to check the history. Anyway, I would chip in but I don't see much future for any such proposal right now; I think there's just no consensus on the issue to be found and it's simply going to be a matter of the weight of VFD precendent creating a de facto standard. I may be wrong about this, however, and a poll that comes out of a discussion will certainly do better than the deeply flawed survey there now, so I look forward to seeing what you come up with August 23. =) -- Christopher Parham (talk) 17:18, 2005 August 12 (UTC)

I would also like an explanation. ( ! | ? | * ) 16:40, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks :-)
I appreciate the Barnstar :-) Ta bu shi da yu 07:11, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

-Ril- and mentorship
I have to take my hat off to you for your courageous offer. I think there is no change of –Ril- agreeing, but I salute your courage for trying. --Doc (?) 12:01, 11 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I believe your work has been very useful. Let me comment though on the things you stated on another page.  First, you might be an unemployed college student, but you have a role in Wiki that is entirely different from mine.  I am not out to be an Admin or rise in the Wiki ranks, but I recognize those who do and who I think are respectful to others.  So I respect your efforts.  I also think you are pretty good editor, but that is not what this is about. My only goal is editing.  That said, -Ril- was preventing me from editing, intentionally and with a lot of malice.  "What to do?" I respectully disagree with your prior suggestion to avoid -Ril-.  It is not possible, except to change User names, to avoid someone who trolls your edits and prevents you from editing.  I can tell you, there are thousands of pages and lots of little issues here.  I went for months without ever running into -Ril-.  If -Ril- is not targeting me, we might not run into each other much if at all.  My solution: -Ril- does not edit any of my edits, which includes reverting my edits.  He can edit on the same page on a different subject, but he does not edit my edits.  If he thinks I have a bad edit, he raises the issue on the talk page and gets someone else to revert (yuck) or preferably change it to make it acceptable. --Noitall 14:08, August 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * Not acceptable. POV pushing is not in the spirit of Wikipedia. Leaving POV pushing standing when hardly anyone is watching for it is even worse.     ( ! | ? | * ) 16:37, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Re: -Ril-'s counterproposal on his talk page: I have never once edited a single comment -Ril- has originally made on any article page. I don't intend to do so in the future. Obviously, I would agree to not edit any of -Ril-'s edits as long as he is not changing my edits. It is also obviously not part of the problem, but I would certainly agree to not edit his original edits. But even the proposal you made would not resolve any problem that any of the other editors have with him. Also note that he has gone beyond reverting and, on George W. Bush replaced my edit (and the one accepted) with one saying the opposite, but not germane to the issue. -Ril- knows how to play the game. --Noitall 20:19, August 11, 2005 (UTC)


 * -Ril- knows how to play the game. That's because -Ril- has over 8000 edits, and 5000 article edits, and all the edit conflict, dispute resolution, discussion, consensus, rules of the game, policies, etc. that go with making that many edits. The question is - Do you know the rules of the game?     ( ! | ? | * ) 21:27, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

OK guys, let's take this to User:TShilo12/-Ril- and Noitall dispute. Thanks. Tomer TALK 21:30, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, but that isn't the right answer. ( ! | ? | * ) 22:56, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

User:TheUnforgiven
Check it out: User_talk:Briangotts


 * Please, will you both stop trying to incite more needless disputes? Brian, I didn't know that you existed until now and it was through you baiting me out of nowhere.  Remeber, first impressions are lasting impressions.  TheUnforgiven 14:00, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Aelia Capitolina
Please take a look at User:TheUnforgiven's latest outrage against litarature and history. I am at my revert limit. --Briangotts (talk) 19:47, 12 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Toda, habibi. I imagine it won't be long before he reverts again though... how is it he's never been banned? --Briangotts (talk) 19:53, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Resh Lakish
Started another of those articles-from-the-Jewish-Encyclopedia-that's-been-heavily-modified-and-wikified-but-could-probably-use-more-work. Feel free to weigh in ;-) --Briangotts (talk) 20:51, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Should it exist?/about the form
You did not respond to my message above, so I make a new section. Please, respond. As I see, you can understand Polish, so this article may be accessible and of interest for you. I guess you try to point out some of Polish myths, that are mentioned in the article, which I consider good. You insist on deleting or reducing anti-Polonism. What about writing more about exertions to stop anti-Polonism? It is perfectly within the topic and can make the article more NPOV. Alx-pl 10:28, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Hello, I am still unsure about your attitude to the article anti-Polonism. I found recently this article in which Laurence Weinbaum (an Israelite historian from Jerusalem) admits that there are Israelites who resent Poles. (It's in Polish, but I can translate for you some portions.) I found also this interview where you can find an explicit mention of the word 'antypolonizm'. Note that the people who took part in the interview are people who did many efforts to make Polish-Jewish relations better - KS. MICHAŁ CZAJKOWSKI is a member of the International Oswiecim Board and STANISŁAW KRAJEWSKI is a member of Polish Jewish-Christian Board. I realise of course that the current content of the article is inacceptable.

I am also sorry for pointing to you these articles on Polish-Jewish relations, but these are the most credible Polish sources I know that mention 'antypolonizm' (in fact the sources are often labelled as Jewish by the Polish nationalists). Alx-pl 22:59, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

The kind of arguments you use means that it is not the meaning of the word anti-Polonism that makes you react like this but the anxiety caused by what may happen because of the people who edit the article. Am I right? Alx-pl 19:48, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

OK, I realise that the remaining 8% is the problem with the balance in the history section and general description. What do you think about the alternative approach that I proposed here. I know that your concerns are mainly due to the shape of the history section, but I regard my proposal as just a starting point. Alx-pl 20:18, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Let me be a little bit more precise. What about the section The span and origins of anti-Polonism? Alx-pl 21:51, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for letting me know. I was in too much of a hurry (as usual). --Mel Etitis ( &Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf; ) 10:18, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

RFA/FM
I generally try to avoid doing anything that encourages people to think that bureaucrats have some sort of special authority beyond being able to perform promotions, but I'll leave a note somewhere and see if it helps. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 12:43, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Taking it to talk
Sure, no problem. If it's ok with you, I'd prefer if we didn't change the actual content of the vote, or the totals anymore, because that's what the bureaucrat took his descision on. I don't mind leaving a note that the totals were tallied wrong though.

This way, people looking at the page will know that we've made a change, will have a clue that they need to review the page history for a minute too.

Would that be an ok compromise?

Kim Bruning 12:56, 14 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Nm, Univitedcompany came up with the other option that's fine. Thanks for being communicative :-) Kim Bruning 14:12, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Admin stuff
Thanks for the mazel tov! The new buttons are pretty cool. Must... restrain... self... --Briangotts (talk) 23:38, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

History of anti-Semitism
Please review the edits by Jayjg <sup style="color:darkgreen;">(talk)  03:32, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Many Thanks
Thanks for supporting my RFA. It couldn't have happened without your effort. And thanks also for the kind words on my promotion left at my Talk page. I hope I live up to the faith you and others in the community have placed in me. FeloniousMonk 17:39, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Al-Andalus
The edit war has flared up again; would you mind taking a look? Jayjg <sup style="color:darkgreen;">(talk) 19:22, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

User:TheUnforgiven
''Dammit. I thought I was the one who had baited him. In other news, I think that we should continue to work on this RFC proposal page so that it can be presented to the powers that be, and he can be hardbanned. He's been nothing but a detriment from the day he first showed up. Tomer TALK 21:28, August 15, 2005 (UTC)''
 * Ah. I see from this that he blames you for his attrocious behavior.Tomer TALK 21:47, August 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry, habibi, better luck next time. Actually if you think about it it's kind of ironic, as my interaction with him was limited to basically two hours's worth of back and forth whereas you and Jay and other members of the evil Zionist cabal have been hounding him for months. I guess you guys should get SOME credit. ;-)-Briangotts (talk) 01:35, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Tzadik
Please see the page that I made for Tzadik and my comments to the talk page of chabad regarding ther merging of the section "Relationship between God, the Rebbe and his followers" into Tzadik. Thanks. --Eliezer | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€  04:19, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

thanks and help
i am trying to get the Wu-Wo "possible COPYRIGHT VIOLATION", canelled. am member has seen on the web and shown that the Wu-Wo contents on wikipedia are the same or similar, they should be the other website "a homepage/blob" is ours and the listing on wikipedia is ours to therefore there is no copyright infringement. I am still new at this great site and i dont know if you remember you appear to help many, but i want say thanks for helping me before, if you could can you help fix this ploblem, if you know how to give it back please be my guess any help would be appreciated. feel free to edit the Wu-Wo entry, this is the one i want to get back its the last one before it was flagged. for any verification look at the listing discussion and the homepage/blog thanks alot any help would be great....

i want this last entry revert back []

[] []  --Sherdwen 10:00, 16 August 2005 (UTC)


 * just wanted to say thanks for helping, when i first found out about wikipedia, i was overwhelmed, i think i am getting a handle now, thanks again.

--Sherdwen 05:50, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Dhimmi and Ger Toshav
Please see User:Heraclius latest edits pointing the articles to each other. Jayjg <sup style="color:darkgreen;">(talk) 00:31, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Block
Jay's already done it, I see. ;-) SlimVirgin <sup style="color:purple;">(talk) 21:33, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

Please stop
Please stop your vandalism on the sub-pages in my userspace. And please try to avoid personal attacks. Thx--Witkacy 21:43, 21 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Feel free to add your comments on the talkpage of the Black Book (in the context of your Anti-Polish quote), however i will remove any personal attacks. Cheers--Witkacy 21:57, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
 * And again.. Feel free to add your comments on the talkpage but.. any personal attacks will be removed.--Witkacy 23:40, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks
Hi! I know it is hard to believe but I have never used a sockpuppet (however I may be a bit clueless). What really scares me is I am becoming more and more like Ril! I have taken your advice. Every good wish --Melissadolbeer 07:13, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Outdated user page
Hey. I was reading your user page, and you wrote:

''I returned to UWEC in January of 2003 with the intention of completing a second degree, this time in Computer Science, in two years' time. This should be completed by June of 2005.''

And now I'm curious: is it completed? LizardWizard 00:32, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

PS You might consider archiving your talk page, it's getting long.