User talk:Tacit Murky

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Russian alphabet
You're still confusing phonemes with allophones. You're saying that "Unyotted /e/ cannot appear without preceding palatalization, so only / ʲe/ is correct." - that's not true, e.g. "это" is phonemically (or  - an analysis which I prefer). There's no phonemic contrast in Russian, they're allophones of one phoneme. But you're right that the more open allophone is written with a different letter (э). Mr KEBAB (talk) 23:36, 8 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Right, so should I say «Unyotted «Е» (or |е| ?) referring to a letter instead? Despite no phonemic contrast, there is a clear phonetic one, as Russian native can surely distinguish between vowel sounds in a «сэр»—«сер» pair even after omitting initial consonant. Tacit Murky (talk) 01:08, 10 May 2016 (UTC)


 * The "phonetic contrast" you're talking about is "this sounds different", not "this sounds different and distinguishes meanings of words" (i.e. more or less the layman definition of "phonemic contrast"). The phonemic contrast in «сэр»—«сер» is not between vowels, but between the softness of the first consonant, which (in «сер») causes the following vowel to be realized as true-mid (also called simply "mid") (or, if you want to transcribe it that way). If  is surrounded with soft consonants, or when it is followed by a soft consonant (unless  is word-initial), then it is realized as close-mid.


 * Word-initial is realized as open-mid, which is the same realization as the one found between hard consonants (as in «сэр»). Because of that, you can't ommit «с» and preserve the allophonic difference in vowel height, as stressed word-initial  is always open-mid . Mr KEBAB (talk) 16:58, 10 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I noticed that you are frequent editor of Russian phonology. This article carefully uses words like «vowel letter» (as opposed to other «vowels») and mentions that in «Russian pedagogy … the term phoneme is not used». This may have some complications in explanations (like for me). Meanwhile, I've found a lot of stuff apparently outdated, imprecise or oversimplified. But I cannot be sure. Should I make my proposals in a local Talk page? Tacit Murky (talk) 07:20, 11 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Your response seems to be a little off-topic.


 * No, that's not what the article says. It says "The most popular view among linguists (and that taken up in this article) is that of the Moscow school, though Russian pedagogy has typically taught that there are six vowels (the term phoneme is not used)." The "view of the Moscow school" is that there are five phonemes:, whereas is not a phoneme , but a mere allophone of , whereas "has typically taught" does not equal "has always taught". I'm not sure why you're misrepresenting that sentence.


 * Searching for "vowel letter" on Russian phonology also gives zero results, so not only is that term not used "carefully", it is not used at all...


 * Of course, nobody can forbid you from using any talk page according to its purpose, so don't ever ask me that question again ;) However:


 * - What I said is clearly, for the most part, not outdated. In "Russian" (Journal of the Phonetic Association, 2015, authors: Yanushevskaya & Buncic) it is said that: "Similarly, the vowel is more retracted and centralised in the context of the non-palatalised consonants, e.g. šest  'pole', and is realised as front in the context of the palatalised consonants, where it is also more close, e.g. čestʹ  'honour'." In this case, "in the context of (non-)palatalised consonants" means "between (non-)palatalised consonants". On their vowel chart, they state that the typical "neutral" quality of Russian  is more or less between that in čestʹ and that in šest, i.e. true-mid.


 * - Please don't bother making that proposal without reliable sources on the table, as you'd be wasting your time. Nobody will exchange sourced information just because you're asking them to do so - especially if you're going to tell us e.g. that the soft-hard consonantal contrast is not phonemic in Russian, which is a very unusual analysis.


 * I'll probably make my own proposal myself over the next few hours. It won't, however, be about vowels. Mr KEBAB (talk) 08:53, 11 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm not misrepresenting sentences, but (remembering my schooling days about Russian) I can't find a «phoneme» in there; one of the teachers stated that she was a proponent of SPb (Leningrad) linguistics school, when we were arguing about transcription of «Щ». And no «phoneme» was mentioned.


 * Sorry, I've mixed up phrase sources. «Vowel letter» is in the table footer of Russian alphabet article, where there is also a link to «Phonology». By „outdated“ I didn't mean your statements in particular (I find them pretty clear), but certain parts of a Phonology article.


 * Of course, «soft-hard consonantal contrast» is phonemic, which is proven by a „morphological fact“ that preserving hardness or softness of a consonant in a Slavic language group (and, probably, in others) is more important, than that of the following vowel, when constructing a word with a stem and affixes. But my proposals will be of a different kind. Tacit Murky (talk) 09:53, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Mark Prihodko (February 29)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Mach61 was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Mark Prihodko and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
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Mach61 (talk) 13:58, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Mark Prihodko (March 3)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by TheBritinator was:

The comment the reviewer left was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Mark Prihodko and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
 * If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk/New_question&withJS=MediaWiki:AFCHD-wizard.js&page=Draft:Mark_Prihodko Articles for creation help desk], on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:TheBritinator&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Mark_Prihodko reviewer's talk page] or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

TheBritinator (talk) 14:45, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Mark Prihodko has been accepted
 Mark Prihodko, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

The article has been assessed as C-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. This is a great rating for a new article, and places it among the top of accepted submissions — kudos to you! You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

Since you have made at least 10 edits over more than four days, you can now create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for creation if you prefer.

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Thanks again, and happy editing! Mach61 00:17, 3 April 2024 (UTC)