User talk:Tafaitoa

It is funny how you make claims yet you cannot back yourself up.

I can. I quoted examples of Samoan churches around the world which are affiliated with national umbrella's. They all are. It's pretty obvious. I thought you were not a part of the church but it sounds like you are not after the truth which is why I said to not use this to prove a point. Wikipedia was not made for this sort of thing.

I am not part of the Church, but I know you are, how can a Superintendent not be a part of his church? I keep telling you, the Assemblies of God Constitution says that a minister can only be nominated as a Superintendent only if he is a minister of the Assemblies of God Worldwide. Pastor Pulepule is the Superintendent of 9 countries where the Samoan Assemblies of God are, out of that 9 you claim 8 is afilliated and not NZ, how can that be? and if so, Samani cannot be the superintendent because according to your claims, he is not a minister of the Assemblies of God. You are really inconsistent. If you want me to remove most of the article under the controversy tab, then I suggest you stop changing the Samoan church's afilliation with the World. It is La'u and his group that are not part of the World Samoan Assemblies of God. How simple is that? Yet you rather take out that bit, and put in that Samani and his group are not afilliated. My information is not only backed up from experience, but it was written all over the NZherald, the Samoan Newspaper, which both interviewed Pastor Iliafi Esera and Pastor Ken Harrison. So my views are not biased at all but the truth. If you dont know anything, then stop adding to the article, it seems to me you're tryng to cover up for AOGNZ. I acknowledged Pastor Samani and his group are a break-away group, but I also acknowledge that AOGNZ filed court cases against them, why do you keep taking that bit out? you seem afraid, but every one especially the Samoan churches has the right to know these things, not just what you're Leaders are saying.

There is no cover up going on. It is good you are not a member of the church. The explanation above is shown. There is no authority of a world superintendant to any other country. It is a fellowship of meet and encouragement. There is also no constitution for this body. Each country has a constitution of the AG umbrella. The media was used by the lawyers of the other side to try and harness good relations. They used it for their fight and in the herald article it shows nothing but the herald article shows opinions and views with no facts. Most of it was brought by Orlinda Woodroffe as you clearly see [excuse me if this is you writing]. The Samoan aide [as you call it filed the first claims against AG NZ that is the truth and I suggest you dont leave that part out. They filed court cases for everything and there are papers to prove it, however as this information may be confidential and sensitive I suggest you leave it out. AG NZ were taken to court and the Samoan church has the right to know this dont they?? If the group is the break away group and the group that stayed remained where they had been all these years? then why or how could the breakaway group remain affiliated with the World AG Fellowship?? The group that remain are the same group under which the breakaway group affiliated through the World AG for all these years. Why then are all the other countries Samoan AG's under one national umbrella and this NZ breakaway group claim they are the same? One sneaky way they may try and affiliate is through the Samoan national body however I doubt this is the case and even if so they would only be an extension of the Samoan umbrella. This is not what leaders are saying this is the truth. Why do you not look for the truth?

Yes I am saying that he is a foreigner. I said before I do not want to argue on this. When Max Haleck Jr died the Samoan world AG had a bit of a constitutional crisis. Rev Max was planning to come and fix the mess as he knew the truth. However God called him home which means God had a reason. The Superintendant of the Samoan AG worldwide is a foreigner, he stepped in and took the place without a vote as there had never been a situation like this. When the World conference came around everyone knew the truth however they were too scared to administer as they have the concept of fa'aaloalo that is huge in the Samoan culture and could not find the will to correct the mistake. This is why when the Superintendent of Samoa comes to NZ he does not say which side is right and which is not he is simply sitting on the fence to try and keep everyone happy so his Samoan fellowship does not split up over this. There is no formal vote for the superinendent and from that time on the Superintendent stood as it is. There is no such rule and there are no rules. The Samoan fellowship does not have any binding powers on other nations. each body in separate and has its own governance so the fellowship is not an organisation of power and control but of fellowship and encouragement. If you look at Australia the Superintendent of the Samoan AG in Australia serves under the Australian AG which was headed by pastor Brian Houston and now Pastor Wayne Alcorn. In Hawaii, Alaska and America they are all under the umbrella with the Superintendent pastor James Wood and in Samoa all AG churches in both American Samoa and Samoa are under the national umbrella of Dr Tavita affiliating to the World AG. All the Samoan AG movements abide under a national umbrella which incorporates all cultures; this is because there can only be one AG fellowship in any one country which affiliates to the World AG [keep in mind the World AG Fellowship also has no power over each nation but only supports and encourages each other]. Anyone can call themselves Assemblies of God i.e. first AOG etc. but that does not mean they are affiliated with AG worldwide. So there are no rules to the Samoan AG, they have no power as each work in the different countries abides under their national umbrella [so do Fijian AG, Tongan etc. etc.]. The first court case was lodged by the so called "Samoan" side [using the term for distinguishment] against the AG NZ. There are court documents and records that can justify that. Nothing was ever solved in court and the Judge told the sides to go away and talk and settle the dispute. Money was being wasted as the Samoan side would not budge for anything and wanted litigation to carry on [although both sides worked for the assets and contributed] and it was time to move on and so God spoke to the committee of the other side [general in regards to your article] as the bible states that Jesus said we must not take a brother to the court to be judged by gentiles - we must have enough wisdom to do the judging ourselves. Secondly we are to take the wrong if the other would not be persuaded - This is the Kingdom of God perspective. So in the end no court case ending was found and the side which had stayed where they had been all these years decided to leave the assets as they believe God will bring justice. You also misrepresent as if the other side said there was no money and needed some however it would be in the right mind of anyone to fairly divide the assets as to the work and money put into it regardless of who's right. Thomas Trask was not in agreeance or support of the side and the Superintendant in Samoa did not justify anything. Trask did not come to the conference because he did not want to be seen as supporting something that is wrong. I do not know about the James Wood one in 2010 but will keep an eye for that although I highly doubt this. As we are both after the truth it would be good if you read this and understand. However please don't take anything personally and try not to mention names as that starts getting personal as you see in my reply I have tried to minimise this and have not used the Superintendent of the other sides name once as I have high respect; he is a long serving minister of the gospel. I simply do not like misleading or false statements put up. Please understand that it is better if we agree to disagree and therefore produce an article that does not give questionable information.

Good to finally get a proper response from you, However I must totally disagree with you with how Pastor Pulepule was made World Chairman. He was voted in by the World leaders themselves, at the Conference (with which I was in attendance) everyone was anticipating Dr Tavita Pagaialii to become the new leader, but during that meeting, Pastor Pulepule was voted in and not one other Superintendent went against that. If any of them regret that decision today, then that is between them and God, but because God had ordained Pulepule to become the World Chairman of the Samoan Assemblies of God, who is to question what God wills. It was absolutely not his will that the church should be divided, but this is what happens when people start relying on people rather than the Lord. The Samoan fellowship decided to make their own constitution because of how AOGNZ dealt with one of the local Samoan ministers who admitted to sexual sin during his ministry. The Samoan fellowship stood him down, and AOGNZ agreed with it, however, that Pastor sued the Samoan Assemblies, and won his case, along with $100,000 and the church manse in which he was pastoring. AOGNZ were in fact alerted but there was no help from them, hence the reason they decided to make their own constitution to protect church assets, and not have this thing happen again. Also, how can you say it is not a rule for a superintendent to be voted he must be an Assemblies of God minister? does that mean anyone can go for that position? I say not at all. Read your constitution, under the Executive Council part. If God didn't want Pastor Pulepule to lead such a fellowship, dont you think God would have called him home? So it cannot be that he was voted in based on the concept of faaaloalo, these men are God-fearing men, and they know well enough that the church is never run by the fa'asamoa but by the word of God. Never Fa'aletino, but always Fa'aleagaga. People will always think "the pastors are too scared to speak up" that is not the case, God does not see the way man see's. That's why King David said "It is far better to take refuge in the Lord than to rely on Man". In my opinion it does not matter who we are afilliated with, the purpose is to build His Kingdom, and not a denomination. I must humble myself and yes you're right about that, and I will leave the article as how you have left it. People judge Pastor Pulepule as a money hungry, and all about power man, however, I know him on a personal note, and he is not at all anything like that, but Humble and wise. I also know Pastor Lau (yes he is my uncle) and he is just as humble too. I have attended the Samoan side's National Conferences, and when it comes to the end of it, Pastor Pulepule ALWAYS kneels down in front of the convention (and also the convention itself) and they pray for the "palagi" side. Not for them to come back, but asking God for a blessing. The way the media puts this split up and the way people talk about it is overrated, because I still know Pastor Samani and Pastor Lau get along very well. Despite this (even though it does not matter), it was AOGNZ that filed court cases against the Samoan side which pushed the Samoans to not back down, but to fight for what God has given them. God is Just. And because the court cases have been ressolved, it does not mean who is right and who is wrong, the bible states that all we must do is say to ourselves "o tagata le aoga i tatou". But yes, we must come into agreement, Im going to leave the article the way you want it to be, but what I beg of thee is please do not include information that is misleading and just purely wrong. I will be attending the Samoan Assemblies of God's "Sauniga Fa'afetai" it will be good if you could get people from the General side to attend. Remember, not a denomination, but His Kingdom. Peace and Love Yours in the Harvest

Lets agree to disagree. There is no World Samoan AG constitution, and the world superintendent was not voted in, it was simply not good against. Pastor Pulepule is not a money hngry man, he is a lovely man he's sincere generous and humble. We must honour this. In contrast to this the "Samoan side" filed the first court case and I think you would know this and know that there are papers to prove this. I don't really like the way you label Samoan and Palagi side, but it is helpful in distinction however. Anyways the explanation I originally posted is the truth etc. But you're so right! Denomination won't get anyone to heaven to be honest I mean God ain't gonna ask who you're affiliated with aye. But whatever you sow you reap and I think alot of misrepresentation is going around on the other side maybe influenced by others and not the Superintendent as he's not like that. But as old and fragile as he is it is sad when others try and take advantage of this! The court case was not won by any side, but the side which stayed where they were [palagi side in your interpretation] followed the Lords command as I stated above. God is just, and what you sow you will reap, that is fundamental. This side cannot also come back because they are still where they were and always been. God had a plan for Reverend Max, and maybe God wanted to stir things up. Things have been stagnant for a while, tradition and barriers have held the Samoan church back and kept revival. The constitution of the AG NZ gives power to the local church and the General Council has no power over the assets of any local church [this again a fundamental AG characteristic], this distinguishes the AG from mainline churches, mainline churches have a governing body which has huge power over the local church [I will not name any to not cause any concerns for others who attend those churches]. However the new constitution that the "Samoan side" split away and began includes several clauses in which the governing body has huge power over assets. This is unfair as people work hard to build things and they can walk along and have a say in it. I can prove this also. I don't really want to into the pastor that "fell" that you mentioned because this is disrespectful, the man has gone to be with the Lord, I do not want to talk about this as it really has nothing to do with the issue at hand. The rule about the AG minister in the Samoan AG fellowship is also divided and I disagree and know that respect has alot to do with things, at the end of the day the pastors return to their national fellowships and the different nations have no say in the others business. The God fearing part of the men is debatable also because they know the truth and do not really administer because of fear their national fellowships will also split. The "World Samoan AG" is in a funny place at the moment but I will not add any more or go into that as it may also not really relate to the issue. Everything I write and say is the truth and I am not misleading in any way shape or form, I will have to answer before almighty God and this fear causes me to tell the truth which is why it is offensive when I see things on the internet that is false and can mislead people. Remember to be very careful friend as this world will pass but remember your relationship with the Lord and remember the day of judgment when God will go through all things. I agree that we should take refuge in the Lord, but people are human and decisions have to be made. Anyway God has his ways of doing things and bringing justice and vengeance in the end and his ways are higher than our ways. God bless you. Yours in Christ.

I totally agree with you, there are alot of things I question about the Samoan AOG, but God has taught me to run my own race. I know there is no world Samoan AOG Constitution, but I have read the "Samoan" sides new constitution and your statement that "the governing body has huge power over assets" is totally a misconception. This is the confusion that the "palagi" side have with the Samoan side. I apologise before you and God if I have written anything that had offended you, this does not mean that it was a lie, but God is my witness. We'll forever have the excuse of "but we're human", it's time to let the Church be the Church, and the World be the World.

That is so true! God is God and you sound like a good person, God bless you for going after the truth and nothing else. Keep on and keeping on. I dont know about their constitution which could have been changed or modified to suit but the one on offer before they broke away as I read it mentioned two committee members on the seat of each trust that governs the assets of each local church which gives them power, a function that is not under the AG NZ umbrella. As I said he local church under AG [a common characteristic for any AG] is that the local church is in charge of its own assets etc. Anyways This is a ood discussion and it is good to talk to someone who is after the truth, as opposed to trying to explain things to an ignorant person who does not even try to listen and understand. Let's continue to build God's church and the Kingdom of God. The Samoan AG [the one still under the national umbrela] has their conference on labour weekend and I'm not sure where it is next year I think it is in Napier but yeah it would be good if you would like to come as they have guest speakers and the focus is not on any of this split stuff but all about the kingdom, they have experienced a massive outflow of the spirit with people being healed at conferences and young people being set on power by the power of God. It would be great if you wanted to come as it is open to anyone as the board business meeting is every two years and the meeting the other year is a spiritual conference. This is not including the different regions meeting with the comittee which is held every year to discuss issues and answer questions. But anyway God is always where he is that is on the throne. Yours in Christ.

You mean Queens Birthday Weekend? I did attend this years "Divine Promise" business Conference in Auckland, I was invited by my cousins who were the band playing there, Ranui SA/G. Unfortunately I was only there for praise and worship, but it was really good to catch up with all the family that I hardly ever see because of the split. Im from Central North Island, and my family are all Assemblies of God people. Back then we used to have Regional Combines all the time and I used to see them there, but now most of them have stayed witth the "palagi" side, in that we pressured my father to leave the church and the pastor we were working under, to start another church under "palagi" but all he said was "We're not building a denomination, we're building the Kingdom of God". The thing that discouraged my walk during the split was my father was preparing to be ordained as a Pastor in 2005, something our family have been praying for in years, and with Pastor Iliafi and one of the Exec who's name I have forgotten talked with my Father and said he should have been a Pastor years ago. Well when the group of Samoans left, my Fathers credentials were cancelled. My father who looked discouraged also said in a quiet voice "not my will but Yours!" Im slowly going back to the church, bu still need prayer, His Word has been my stronghold for years, God is good...

Sorry yeah Queens Birthday weekend that's the one and Divine Pursuit. Yeah Napier next year is more focussed on spiritual aspects as it is not a business meeting. Sorry to hear about that which discouraged your walk. I wouldn't know of what happened in regards to your case and your Father, but all I can say is at least you are still in a relationship with the Lord. And I didn't go to the conference this year but I heard the band from ranui was off the hook aye. Anyway personally I'm over denomination stuff aye and just concentrate on the presence of the Lord and walking with him. God bless.

Yeah just thank God for giving me an attitude like Paul and Job where Paul says "I've learned to be content with whatever state im put in" and Job saying "though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him". I think just talking to you through here has encouraged me sooo much, not focussed on denomination, Im really seeking the Lord in the area of prophecy, was baptised in the Holy Ghost in 2004, and so far my walk seems stagnate, but it feels like its growing. So Im still trusting in the Lord and praising him for things that haven't yet happened. Bless you brother or sister, you have encouraged me sooo much and you may not realise it, but God is doing a good thing in your life, prosperity is for thee!!