User talk:Taharqa/Archive 1

Warning
Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks will lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. NeoFreak 17:35, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Taharqa, as you've noted you don't agree with the appropriateness of my warning. That's fine, as long as you do not remove the warning you don't have to like it. I've received warnings that I didn't agree with either, I just take it on the chin and move on. I understand that Urthogie has insulted you in the past, there is a long history of unacceptable behavior on both your parts. I'm not going to go back and archive it all and count out warnings, that't not the point. From this moment on, until you two resolve this issue or an Admin or the ArbComm decides otherwise I'm going to continue to give out warnings to every editor that violates clear policy. If either of you contine with the sort of behaivor that is causing the problems I will have that person blocked. So please, calm down and try to be cool. NeoFreak 17:59, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I made the warning in specific reference to your insinuation that Urthogie's actions were "incompetent". I understand the point you could make that it was "the edit" and not "the editor" that was incompetent but such semantics largely loose their weight in the context of your tone. I'm not trying to flex any muscles here, the distribution of warning templates is within every editors "power" and I would argue it is also their responsibility. I'm not following up on all of this because I want to send the impression that I'm a "powerful guy" as you've suggested, I'm doing so because I've seen what this conflict with Urthogie is doing to an already fragile article. Don't ever be afraid to hit me up on my talk page, as a matter of fact don't be afraid to seek a third opinion or even request administrator assitance. Also, please sign your comments on my page with four tildes. Thanks.NeoFreak 18:23, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * My short answer is no. To declare someone or their actions "incompetent" is clear ad hominum and you failed to address the issue at hand, instead going after the editor wit scorn. Again, please sign your posts on my talk page. NeoFreak 18:52, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. However, talk pages are meant to be a record of a discussion; deleting or editing legitimate comments is considered bad practice, even if you meant well. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. NeoFreak 19:28, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Factual accuracy and citations
I am sorry, but I am not wrong. I do not know how to deal with you if you simply reject outrightly the most basic statements of Egyptolgical fact without any basis. I have examined the Berlin Dictionary and Faulkner's dictionary and found no such definition or root off of which your definition of pwn.t can be derived.

If you want to contest that the statements I make are baseless, find a reputable citation for your own statements first.

(Oh, "personal attack" covers a lot of bad behavior on wikipedia, and both your friend and you have perpetrated numerous said attacks. Read WP:CIVL and No personal attacks) Thanatosimii 20:05, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

195.110.156.38 13:20, 14 May 2007 (UTC)== You have been blocked ==

You have been blocked from editing for in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for violating the three-revert rule. In the future, please solve editing disputes through discussion rather than edit warring. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text below. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 05:37, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Please note also my comments at WP:AN3RR. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 05:39, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

This is reasonable, and I'll accept that.. I do admit that I was a little unaware of exactly what a revert was, I thought that people meant "reverting" as in blanking and restoring, my ignorance is no excuse though since this type of thing is disruptive regardless.. Thank you for answering our concerns! - Taharqa


 * If you want a better approach to editing for when the block ends, I advise you to read about edit warring and dispute resolution. Continuing to edit war will get you nowhere; if you seek dispute resolution, you may see better results. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 05:52, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Welcome
Hello, , and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the New contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type   and your question on your user talk page, and someone will show up shortly to answer. Here are a few good links for newcomers: We hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on talk and vote pages using four tildes, like this: &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126;. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! NeoFreak 22:03, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The Five Pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Editing tutorial
 * Picture tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Naming conventions
 * Manual of Style

Hey!
It's nice to see a new username looking at the articles on Race and intelligence (they need a lot of work!) If you have the change could you look at this new article I created today: Race and health? futurebird 04:56, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

^Cool, I'll check it out..Taharqa 05:00, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

PS you should think about joining WP:AFRO futurebird 05:04, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

^Oooh! That's a great idea! I'll see what I can do, I'll definitely try and see if I can..

Race and intelligence (explanations)‎
I really need some help with this article. I've added a ton of evidence against the genetic explanation, but now WRN is trying to frame the whole thing in terms of "well you never know it might be genetics!" --It's the idea that no matter what you do, I mean, even if there was no test score gap, until you have proven there is NO genetic link you ought to assume that there is one. He's invoking Occam's razor and I think that's ABSURD. Occam's razor says choose the obvious cause: RACISM. duh duh duh. I've just about had it with this article. How many years will it be before people simply realise that (a) Jensen is a nut (b) we ought to have been spending all this time and research money trying to help people live better lives rather than trying to prove that people are inferior because of some 19th century vendetta in some circles of the academic community against africa.

I'm just really angry and sick of going in circles. I need some help. I don't want to just give up and watch as all of my hard work is slowly obliterated. futurebird 05:22, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Hey
Hey Taharqa I'm not trying to cause any trouble editing the pages, with that info I found so I was hoping you could do it for me since you're more active on this page Louisvillian 23:36, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

^I don't know, I'm sure sure how to present it. I'll see if I can.Taharqa 23:52, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Hello
Great work so far from what I've seen. I don't understand why you deleted the section on the Indo-European expansion in the 2nd millenium BC. It was POV, but needs to be rewritten, not deleted. Anyway, keep up the good work. BTW, do you happen to post at Egyptsearch.com? &mdash; ዮም  |  (Yom)  |  Talk  • contribs • Ethiopia 22:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

^Sup.. The indo-european crap was flat out Aryanistic propoganda with out source, that's why I deleted it. And yea, I pass through Egyptsearch from time to time, very informative site. - Taharqa

Invitation
Thanx for the invite!Taharqa 09:45, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

About the Sphinx
Taharqa, can you find informations in English about the commentaries of D. Vivant Denon on the Sphinx of Guizeh to be added to the article "Egypt and race"? He was an artist. He took part in the expedition of Bonaparte to Egypt and, once there, made a design of the Sphinx. Here are some informations in French http://www.africamaat.com/article.php3?id_article=155. Hotep! Lusala lu ne Nkuka Luka--195.110.156.38 22:28, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

The Black origin of the Greecs
Taharqa, find the full article about the Black African origin of the Greecs here http://www.africamaat.com/article.php3?id_article=914&artsuite=1 or here http://www.africamaat.com/article.php3?id_article=157&artsuite=1. Thank you for the links you suggested to me earlier. Hotep! Lusala lu ne Nkuka Luka--195.110.156.38 21:27, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

The links
Thank you Taharqa for the links on the work of Basil Davidson. I find this man quite objective about Africa. Because of his commitment to truth, Eurocentric scholarship qualifies him as a leftist. Yes, truth is bitter! Lusala lu ne Nkuka Luka--195.110.156.38 18:56, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for the sources. I swear some of the crap these ignorant racist post is just sickening to read, again thanks for shutting them up! 74.128.200.135 02:01, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

No problem...

Okay I'm sick of this crap they are posting on Stormfront [ http://www.stormfront.org /forum/showthread.php/race-ancient-egyptians-369512p51.html] Taharqa this debate needs to enter in it. These racist pricks have the habit relentless debating BS without a source to back it, yet more and more just keep eating it up. Please join in this debate as you are much more qualified than myself to argue with them. I will help you in way I can in this debate, just please enter it as soon as possible. I've already presented the info you gave, it's just now they are attempting to twist it with their own logic Louisvillian 02:14, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks again Taharqa for the additional info! I can kind of understand where your coming from, But me just being me I don't like to let ignorant shit like that spread even if it's within their own forum, But again Thanks. Louisvillian 17:49, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Ancient Egypt and race
I have blocked you from editing for 36 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for edit warring at Ancient Egypt and race. You have broken the three revert rule, but even if you had not, the rule is not a license to make three reverts every day. Your recent edits to the article have been nothing but revert after revert after revert, and this is extremely disruptive to the other editors who are involved with the article, as well as to readers. In the future, please be more careful to discuss controversial changes or seek dispute resolution rather than engaging in an edit war. I strongly suggest a request for comment. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text below. ··coe l acan 22:32, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Request for Mediation
This message delivered: 16:16, 4 May 2007 (UTC).

Welcome back
Taharqa, things stoped since you have been stoped. Myself I wanted to be honest with you and Urthogie. I did not want to profit from your absence to make edits. So welcome back! Lusala lu ne Nkuka Luka--195.110.156.38 13:20, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Archiving
I archived the material you wanted removed for you. To archive, in case you ever want to create a second archive (I have two myself; the first got full]] just create somthing that says archive 2 on the top of your page, then click the red link, and put the old material in there. Thanatosimii 21:03, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Re:Ancient Egypt and Race
It's already on my watchlist, but I'm a little busy right now, so I can't really help out for about a week. &mdash; ዮም  |  (Yom)  |  Talk  • contribs • Ethiopia 02:40, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

^Ok - Taharqa


 * Third opinion might help.--Urthogie 02:47, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Requests for mediation/Ancient Egypt and race
Hello Urthogie,

I am writing to you because, as a party to this case, your input is required before mediation can begin, to do with an offer by an experienced non-Committee member to mediate. Please see the Parties' agreement to Eagle 101's offer section and provide your input, so that this case can progress. Voting will remain open for seven days, and further elaboration is provided at that link.


 * For the Mediation Committee,  Daniel  06:29, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Before I revert Dynastic Race again...
I want to know if you have actually read Redford's book. Thanatosimii 20:37, 5 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm asking you, because you keep asserting what redford does and does not say, and since you just recently asked, "Who's redford?" I have to wonder if you have read it in the interceeding hours since you discovered he existed, such that you have authority to state what he says and does not say. Thanatosimii 22:03, 5 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, yes, by the way, I provided the wording for Dynastic Race. I am the author of that article in virtually its totality. If you read the book and wish to contest my summary, we can discuss it, but don't take a vendetta against Urthogie to other pages. Thanatosimii 20:24, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Warning
Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks will lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. NeoFreak 17:35, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Taharqa, as you've noted you don't agree with the appropriateness of my warning. That's fine, as long as you do not remove the warning you don't have to like it. I've received warnings that I didn't agree with either, I just take it on the chin and move on. I understand that Urthogie has insulted you in the past, there is a long history of unacceptable behavior on both your parts. I'm not going to go back and archive it all and count out warnings, that't not the point. From this moment on, until you two resolve this issue or an Admin or the ArbComm decides otherwise I'm going to continue to give out warnings to every editor that violates clear policy. If either of you contine with the sort of behaivor that is causing the problems I will have that person blocked. So please, calm down and try to be cool. NeoFreak 17:59, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I made the warning in specific reference to your insinuation that Urthogie's actions were "incompetent". I understand the point you could make that it was "the edit" and not "the editor" that was incompetent but such semantics largely loose their weight in the context of your tone. I'm not trying to flex any muscles here, the distribution of warning templates is within every editors "power" and I would argue it is also their responsibility. I'm not following up on all of this because I want to send the impression that I'm a "powerful guy" as you've suggested, I'm doing so because I've seen what this conflict with Urthogie is doing to an already fragile article. Don't ever be afraid to hit me up on my talk page, as a matter of fact don't be afraid to seek a third opinion or even request administrator assitance. Also, please sign your comments on my page with four tildes. Thanks.NeoFreak 18:23, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * My short answer is no. To declare someone or their actions "incompetent" is clear ad hominum and you failed to address the issue at hand, instead going after the editor wit scorn. Again, please sign your posts on my talk page. NeoFreak 18:52, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. However, talk pages are meant to be a record of a discussion; deleting or editing legitimate comments is considered bad practice, even if you meant well. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. NeoFreak 19:28, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Factual accuracy and citations
I am sorry, but I am not wrong. I do not know how to deal with you if you simply reject outrightly the most basic statements of Egyptolgical fact without any basis. I have examined the Berlin Dictionary and Faulkner's dictionary and found no such definition or root off of which your definition of pwn.t can be derived.

If you want to contest that the statements I make are baseless, find a reputable citation for your own statements first.

(Oh, "personal attack" covers a lot of bad behavior on wikipedia, and both your friend and you have perpetrated numerous said attacks. Read WP:CIVL and No personal attacks) Thanatosimii 20:05, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Sphinx
Taharqa, look at this information about the testimony of D. Vivant Denon on the Sphinx. Can you put it in good english and bring it to the article. Let go off the letter to the editor. Somebody removed it again. Thank you for the link you provided me. I am going to look into it. "Le Témoignage de D. Vivant Denon à propos du Sphinx de Guizeh.

UN CÉLÈBRE DESSINATEUR FRANÇAIS, MEMBRE DE L’EXPÉDITION D’EGYPTE DE BONAPARTE, NOUS LÈGUE SES IMPRESSIONS SUR LE SPHINX DE GUIZEH.

L’Egyptologie doit au français Dominique Vivant Denon, un formidable dessin du Sphinx de Guizeh intitulé : "Le Sphinx près des Pyramides".

D. VIVANT DENON (1747 - 1825) Toile de Pierre-Paul Prud’hon

1 -Un artiste français renommé pour son talent :

Dessinateur, graveur et artiste de talent, Dominique Vivant DENON était aussi très apprécié en France pour son érudition. C’est donc en raison de toutes ces qualités artistiques, que Napoléon Bonaparte fit appel à lui dans le cadre de son expédition en Égypte (1798-1799).

Sa mission fut de recueillir par le biais de nombreux croquis et dessins, tout le patrimoine (faune, flore, objets, stèles, statuts, monuments, barques, etc...) de l’Egypte ancienne afin de mieux faire connaître cette civilisation dans l’hexagone. La photographie n’existant pas à l’époque, c’est dire le caractère précieux des dessins de V. Denon.

Pour ses bons et loyaux services, il devint officiellement membre de "l’Institut d’Égypte" créé par BONAPARTE et fut même nommé directeur du Musée du Louvre dont l’une des entrées porte encore aujourd’hui son nom.

2- Un témoignage précieux pour l’histoire africaine :

Naturellement, Denon ne pouvait manquer l’occasion de dessiner le célèbre Sphinx de Guizeh, dans le cadre de l’expédition de Bonaparte. Son dessin du visage du Sphinx, il l’a lui-meme commenté. Voici textuellement ses propos :

"Je n’eus que le temps d’observer le Sphinx qui mérite d’être dessiné avec le soin le plus scrupuleux, et qui ne l’a jamais été de cette manière. Quoique ses proportions soient colossales, les contours qui en sont conservés sont aussi souples que purs : l’expression de la tête est douce, grâcieuse et tranquille ; le caractère en est africain : mais la bouche, dont les lèvres sont épaisses, a une mollesse dans le mouvement et une finesse d’exécution vraiment admirables ; c’est de la chair et de la vie."

DESSIN DU SPHINX REALISE PAR D. VIVANT DENON Plus loin commentant l’art égyptien, il écrit :

"Quant au caractère de leur figure humaine, n’empruntant rien des autres nations, ils ont copié leur propre nature, qui était plus gracieuse que belle. ... en tout, le caractère africain, dont le Nègre est la charge, et peut-être le principe". [1]

Références bibliographiques:

[1] Vivant DENON, Voyage dans la Basse et le Haute Égypte pendant les campagnes du Général BONAPARTE, Paris, 1ere édition Didot l’Aîné, 1802 ; réédition, Pygmalion/Gérard Watelet, 1990, p. 109." Lusala lu ne Nkuka Luka--195.110.156.38 16:53, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

dangerous edit
hi, bruh. thnx for keepin an eye on the Mali Empire page. I think I'm gonna request protection on it. what was the dangerous edit rv, by the way? Scott Free 14:05, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't know what happened to my last response to this, but some guy changed the name "Mali" to 'Poop" so it would read "Poop Empire". Typical vandalism. - Taharqa

egypt and race talk page
I think we've come to a stand still on that talk page. How about we agree to devote sorting out our disagreements to the mediation page, which is a lot more organized/distracting, until the page is renamed? Thanks, --Urthogie 01:57, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Suggested compromise
Hey, you're blocked and I don't see any reason to halt mediation for 5 days because of this. Tell me what you think of my most recent suggestion on mediation:

""Sociological topics of ancient Egypt" refers to every social phenomenon that occurred in ancient Egypt.  "Biogeography of ancient Egypt" or "Biogeographical relationships of ancient Egypt" don't seem to be sensical titles, either-- are we to discuss the biogeography of the lizards and the ants and the bacteria?  Perhaps Taharqa means to suggest we call the article Human biogeography of ancient Egypt.  This would be a nice big article, yes, but it would still not have any discussion of the appearance of the ancient Egyptians.  So, Taharqa, in an effort to make a compromise, here is my new suggested split:


 * Human biogeography of ancient Egypt (Taharqa's suggestion, basically... we would have the current title we have now redirect to it)
 * This would include all of section 3 (Research) with the exception of section 3.4 (Appearence) and all of section 6 (discarded hypotheses)


 * Appearance of the ancient Egyptians
 * This would include all of section 2 (ancient writers), section 3.4 (appearence), section 4 (mummy reconstructions), and section 5 (art and architecture)


 * Afrocentrism and ancient Egypt
 * This would include the content we currently have in section 1 (defining race) and section 7 (Afrocentrism)


 * Myths about ancient Egypt
 * This would include not only section 8 (myths) but also tons of myths about ancient Egypt that don't relate to race. It would follow HIV and AIDS misconceptions in style.

This is a nice concise list, and we could merge the remaining stuff to existing articles. What do you think of this, Taharqa?--Urthogie 22:10, 28 May 2007 (UTC)"

Please do not drastically change anything until I'm able to edit, your edits tend to misrepresent the data and undermine it to fit your POV imo. As I've stated before, you're obscuring the main objective of the article imo with all of these extra titles that are either trivial, or express the same thing. The peopling and biogegraphic relationships of ancient Egypt, or something similar to that will due imo.. - Taharqa

Bagnall in Walker
Hey, a few days ago, you added some info that was very close to the Britannica article's summary on the portraits and attributed to Bagnall in Walker (2000). See here. There was no page number associated, however. Did you mean to attribute this to Britannica or part of the sentence to Bagnall, and other parts to Britannica? Please clear this up so that I can re-insert the citation where it belongs (I've removed it for now, since it didn't have a page number). &mdash; ዮም  |  (Yom)  |  Talk  • contribs • Ethiopia 19:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually the entire book elaborates on this and clearly identifies these portraits as Roman Egyptian Fayyum representatives. I simply used the source to support the assertion made by Britannica. - Taharqa


 * Okay, well, be sure to bring it up and elaborate on the talk page when your block expires tomorrow. &mdash; ዮም  |  (Yom)  |  Talk  • contribs • Ethiopia 21:24, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Hullo Taharqa
I hope you will be back soon. Truth, nobody can block it anyway! People know well on which side do you stand. Hotep! Lusala lu ne Nkuka Luka--195.110.156.38 22:40, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

^Fasho. Thanx Luka.. - Taharqa

Taharqa
I saw your message. My goodness I was so upset, I wasn't finished so reverted as I was trying to find you the proof that I did not write those rotten words. Thank you for your messsage and apology. :) Sheesh, I got so flustered I'm shaking. Please fix your signature because I couldn't click on a link to get here quickly enough. - Jeeny Talk 15:50, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you! :) My stomach has been in knots the last couple of days and I've been unable to eat (unrelated to any of this). But, I think your last message to me made me well again. Now I'm having hunger pangs! LOL. :) Ummm, now what should I eat? - Jeeny Talk 16:04, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

^Haha, I'm glad to here that.. I don't know what time it is where you are but I recommend a round table, pepperoni Pizza.. LOL.. - Taharqa
 * I love pizza. Yum. Now shut up. cya ;) - Jeeny Talk 01:20, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Protected?
^This is actually for Race and Ancient Egypt and not my usertalk..... Hi, I would request for unprotection but cannot as of now. In any effect, can someone please revert the changes to the previous version as it should be apparent that this is the most developed and long standing version in which several people have contributed. Stable version: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Race_and_ancient_Egypt&diff=135264097&oldid=135262686

History http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Race_and_ancient_Egypt&action=history

^Urthogie is the only one who reverted to that version as it is under dispute resolution, however his version was never a stable version as you can see from its sloppyness and revision of data that was elaborated on, but now condensed and misrepresented in a lot of places. There were many updates before that revision and it isn't fair to the many others who contributed to that article, yet it gets revised to a very old, lesser developed page that is under dispute and has no consensus whatsever(never did). - Taharqa


 * No one can revert now or make edits, but that doesn't mean it will stay at that version. It's just a temporary block until things are settled, it will work out eventually. People need to stand back and keep their emotions in check, thus the protection of the article. - Jeeny Talk 03:03, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanx Jeeny, I agree, I and others can chill out on the petty disputes.. - Taharqa


 * Editprotected requests should only ever be used on the talk pages of their subject articles. Race and ancient Egypt was protected today due to disputes; I'm not inclined to step into the middle of a content dispute. If there are specific edits to the Race and ancient Egypt page that you feel should be made, please feel free to bring them up on the article talk page. Thanks. --MZMcBride 03:04, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

^The thing is that the version that is up now is the one which is disputed, the other one isn't as it was contributed to and at the last minute before the block, Urthogie made a horrendous edit. ...- Taharqa


 * Taharqa, read this: m:The Wrong Version. &mdash; ዮም  |  (Yom)  |  Talk  • contribs • Ethiopia 03:11, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

^Thanx Yom! I'll get on that in the mourning since I can't reach the sysop directly right now..


 * It's actually a satire, Taharqa. The fact of the matter is that an admin should never revert to an earlier version (unless it's a case of clear vandalism) in a dispute, but to just protect the version that's currently in existence. This is to ensure that an admin isn't able to protect the article in a version that he prefers. Of course, it's also possible for an admin to choose to protect an article after the version s/he likes is reverted to, but that's (hopefully) usually not the case. &mdash; ዮም  |  (Yom)  |  Talk  • contribs • Ethiopia 03:56, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

^Thanx Yom! I'll get on that in the mourning since I can't reach the sysop directly right now.. Edit: Oops, didn't realize it was a satire, lol..

I don't know though, I've been having to protect that page from vandalism and obvious bias for a while now and it's not worth it anymore as I'm fighting a lone war. I have people going out of their way to try and keep me blocked, looking for personal information on me and everything. I feel that maybe the page should be requested for deletion because there hasn't been a stable version since it was created and it attracts everything from racists to extreme vandals. That article will never have a stable foundation imo.. - Taharqa


 * I agree, which is why I suggested a split... you rejected this idea though, insisting on keeping race in the title.  If we are ever to have a stable version it will involve a different page name, specifically one that won't attract "racists and vandals."  You say splitting part of it to an appearence article would be too subjective, but what is subjective about defining objectively the hair colors body plans skull shapes skin color etc based on reliable sources, many of which we already have?  Also, biogeography is a title suggested by you, not me!--Urthogie 03:27, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Tell admin Eagle101 that the dispute is over as I'm no longer disputing anything(quote me).. - Taharqa


 * Taharqa, delete what you just wrote, you don't mean it, then click on Yom's link again, and scroll to the very bottom of the page where the catagories are listed. It's a satire. Then delete this. Oh, and please watch your adjectives? - Jeeny Talk 03:52, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

^Thank you Jeeny, you seem like a really good person.. And lmao @ not realizing that was a satire - Taharqa
 * You're a little het up, is all. :) - Jeeny Talk 04:19, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I will quote you, Taharqa. Lemme just state what I think was the source of our arguments.  At some point or another, I don't know when, you decided I was a Eurocentrist or something similar.  From this point on, you decided to argue against me on every point from some silly letter from the editor to the question of blockquotes (blockquotes!??).  Before this point we were compromising, we had some level of trust, and you admitted to being wrong on maybe a couple of things, as did I.


 * When the page has become more stable, and is split into undisputed pages, I ask that you come back, and this time come back with an attitude of cooperation, because I don't hate you or think you can't be reasonable on this page. We disagree on this subject a lot less than you think.--Urthogie 03:57, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

^I was really starting to get stressed out over wikipedia though(which is a bad sign), I'll take what you say into consideration and whatever the case, I don't intend at all on getting into any more ongoing disputes.. I also admit that yes, I may of had the wrong impression about you being biased towards certain data while at other times it seemed that you were either saving face or misinterpreting. All of that is out of the window, being so suspicious is only a burden and the fact that you asked me to stay would suggest that you're sincere, for obvious reasons.. I'm going to chill.. - Taharqa


 * Edit conflict: Taharqa, I'd like you to reconsider. You have a lot to learn about Wikipedia policies (for one, your comments regarding other editors cannot continue to be so hostile), but your edits are generally for the betterment of the page. Given that Luka doesn't edit as much, the Race and Ancient Egypt page probably won't represent a neutral view if another knowledgeable editor doesn't collaborate with Uthogrie. Although you two have had your squabbles, I honestly believe Uthogrie isn't coming into the issue to disrupt or to push a specific POV (having a certain POV is allowed, however, given that their edits are to better the page in general and not to just represent one POV) but with a genuine interest to develop and improve the page. I'd encourage you to just take a step back, cool down, and reapproach the issue calm and open to compromise. &mdash; ዮም  |  (Yom)  |  Talk  • contribs • Ethiopia 04:03, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

^I agree, I really do because when wikipedia begins to slightly stress you it is a problem. I'm indeed stepping back. I also understand my own folly and that I overreact sometimes and have edit warred before. I just got off on the wrong foot and I have let my emotions get the best of me in debates, where things that I say do carry a hostile tone. I'll just back off for a sec, thanx and I appreciate you guy's a lot for not seeing me as some immature editor who just wants his way, but may be mis-guided and that is something that I need to evaluate. - Taharqa

Urthogie, I erased my quote, but it still stands in the sense that I'm not complaining. I'm stepping back, but the current version is inadequate to the previous in that people actually contributed and built that one up. I only hope that contributions aren't loss and the page is cleaned up soon. - Taharqa


 * Taharqa, do not worry! The history is there, for anyone to access. It is not lost. You will be able to get it back, and compromise accordingly. - Jeeny Talk 05:31, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

^Thanx Jeeny.. - Taharqa

Invitation
Thank you for the invite Jeeny! I'll definitely check it out.. - Taharqa

what do you think

 * Population history of ancient Egypt
 * Appearance of the ancient Egyptians

I won't be editing these pages, aside from defending the split. I'm done with editing race-related articles of any sort. Too controversial. Peace, --Urthogie 02:26, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

^^I'm with you on that, I won't oppose your split, still a bit weary about the title "Appearance of the ancient Egyptians", but that can be discussed at another time later I guess.... Peace to you too.. - Taharqa

Taharqa He's lying he is has deleted any and every source suggesting that AE's were black and replaced them with original research suggesting that they were more Middle Eastern in appearance. Needless to say the article with his edits are about a third of it's former size and has close to no sources )compared to the claims being made). He hasn't consulted with the anyone on the talk page before he's made these edits either, we would love it if you would come back or just kind of watch over the page.Louisvillian 16:28, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I just reverted the page to it's original form (well before his edits) about am hour and a half ago. I did this yesterday, But Urthogie had edited his to fit his views. Louisvillian 19:13, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Where is Punt?
Taharqa, you forgot Punt with your last revert of the article on the population of ancient Egypt. It is a good piece! Did you change your mind about that? Lusala lu ne Nkuka Luka--195.110.156.38 22:45, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

How is "hair" related to population history?
You said you'd stop editing and I thought you meant it. We stopped mediation because of that. Now you're reverting back mentions of appearance into an article on population history. Why?--Urthogie 23:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually YOU suggested to me that you'd stop editing and only defend the split, I said that I wouldn't dispute it anymore. Doesn't mean that the article will not be developed and stay in the infantile and underdeveloped state you're trying to revert to, even after many people have contributed and made edits. Besides, I'm not the only other editor...

Oh, and if you specifically have a problem with the hair section, get rid of it.. - Taharqa

Saving the article "Appearance of the ancient Egyptians"
Taharqa, I have the impression that this article has reached his real final stage. Cann't we suggest to an administrator to save it from being changed again? We will have only to remove the tags here and there and then ask for the saving. What do you think about protecting this beauteful and admirable text?--Lusala lu ne Nkuka Luka 16:55, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Regarding Mali Article
It looked like you started the pettiness with your comment in the reason to edit. that looked like a personal attack on me and that's how i took it. after you made the grammar changes (which are helpful and we all appreciate it), you added the mandingo thing in the info box. I assumed that you did more good than harm and only edited that little part. As far as the population of hunters thing, I'm not sure what part of the article. I know the Mandinka did start out as a population of mountain dwelling hunters and it stayed with them (Sundjata even dressed in a hunter's garment at his coronation). Anyhoo, your comment seemed veiled in sarcasm and it didn't seem clear what you edited last time. here's what you put...

"Oops, sorry bout that 4shizzle.. I also made two or three uneeded grammar edits that were also wrong(which I'm reverting now). Article is perfect, I don't even know why I'm editing it, lol"

I thought you were being sarcastic and RUDE. It didn't sound like a genuine mistake but you saying that I needlessly reverted you. Now that you've made youself more clear, I guess it kinda became a self-fulfilling prophesy.

But you are absolutely right this is all from confusion. I won't attempt to revert you AGAIN. i just happened to be up working on an article that was really difficult, saw the writing and got pissed. Just didn't expect you or anyone else to honestly believe the article was perfect (I know that I don't). So i jumped to a conclusion. I'm sorry, bruh. And I'll apologize on the Mali page in a minute. By the way, check out the Battle of Kitombo article I just started. Once again I AM COMPLETELY SORRY FOR TRIPPIN ON YOU. Thnx for all the good work you do here. PEACE Scott Free 06:54, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It's all good. I'm actually a stickler for grammar and am usually too busy with all these books to pay attention.  That being said, I'm glad when folks take the time to correct such things. And thank you for the compliments, brotha.  i've noticed them before and am thankful.  We need more folks like us on wiki to combat the rediculous amount of eurocentrism here.  That's one of the main reasons I'm so paranoid (i'm watching like a thousand articles, lol).  On another note, I'm trying to make more articles on African battles, specifically the ones WHERE WE WON. I think i've said it elsewhere that many european/white authors (even the ones that are reasonably good mainstream sources) seem to paint all African victories as Isandilhwana and all European victories as Rorke's Drift.  Now that i'm done with Kitombo I'm gonna get to work on some other battles (mainly ones around the time of the Kongo Civil War).  Your help is always appreciated.  Take care. Peace.Scott Free16:45, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Eurocentrist Alert!!!
hey, bruh, it's me again. Wanted to hip u to this nut that's screwin up the Mali Empire. You already know how I feel about this article and how protective I am of it. I think you feel the same way. There's this fella called PeterKremer tryin to sneak diss the Abubakari II section. He's also made attacks on the Sankore Mosque page. I've beat his edits back, but i can't be everywhere at once. Look at the talk page on the Sankore page, and you'll see exactly what i mean. Higher knowledge has got to unite against such idiots. i know i can rely on u.Scott Free 16:40, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

^Ugh, I saw that.. I guess his problem with the main page on Abubakari II compelled him to do that, his objections to timbuktu however, clearly demonstrates an agenda. Unless he shows a different side, I'd have to look at this guy as a suspect individual, especially given his tone and attitude. I see that you handled his Original Research on the Mali article and I reverted him on Abubakari's page to an earlier more stable version, and pointed out in the talk page why what he was doing belongs on the talk page, unless agreed upon or confirmed as mainstream, he's giving his biased opinion and trying to impose it. That won't happen though, especially with the Mali article, too much work has went into it, and yes, you can count on me to check up on it whenever I log in, I'll have it on watch.Taharqa 00:53, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * 'Preciate, bruh. I got the biggest headache in the world right now.  Just finished handing ol' boy his @$$ on the Abubakari II page.  Didn't realize how hard it'd be to find Ibn Khaldoun's actual king list. I think we finally put the nail in the coffin regarding Abubakari II's existence. Good work on the revert.  Knew I could count on u. Below are some jewels you might enjoy...


 * http://books.google.com/books?id=H2kdAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=ibn+khaldoun+mali+king+list&source=web&ots=o3-rE1G0Tf&sig=PBWokd_kOKneAWpmErHTp1W-WaQ#PPA71,M1 (has the ibn khaldoun king list and other info via a 19th century publication)
 * http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ik/Muqaddimah/Chapter5/Toc_Ch_5.htm (the entire kitab al-ibar by ibn khaldoun. I only found Mali mentioned in the first chapter 2nd prefactory)

holla Scott Free 02:28, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

License tagging for Image:Songhai.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Songhai.jpg. Wikipedia gets thousands of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Wikipedia, the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an image tag applied to the image description page indicating the copyright status of the image. This uniform and easy-to-understand method of indicating the license status allows potential re-users of the images to know what they are allowed to do with the images.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:
 * Image use policy
 * Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. If you need help on selecting a tag to use, or in adding the tag to the image description, feel free to post a message at Media copyright questions. 02:10, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Duplicate images uploaded
Thanks for uploading Image:Songhai Man.jpg. A machine-controlled robot account noticed that you also uploaded the same image under the name Image:Songhai.jpg. The copy called Image:Songhai.jpg has been marked for speedy deletion since it is redundant. If this sounds okay to you, there is no need for you to take any action.

This is an automated message- you have not upset or annoyed anyone, and you do not need to respond. In the future, you may save yourself some confusion if you supply a meaningful file name and refer to 'my contributions' to remind yourself exactly which name you chose (file names are case sensitive, including the extension) so that you won't lose track of your uploads. For tips on good file naming, see Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions about this notice, or feel that the deletion is inappropriate, please contact User:Staecker, who operates the robot account. Staeckerbot 03:15, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Papers
Thnx for the links and the praise bro. i've already looked thru at least one (thank god for JSTOR). ttyl.Scott Free 16:39, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Songhai Empire
Hi, T. I was wondering if I might be able to enlist your help on improving the Songhai Empire page. My interests have been gradually shifted to West Central Africa and I haven't monitored that page nearly enough. Recently some1 added a chart (ripped straight from the Mali Empire page, actually) that was full of errors. It was cool of them to take an interest, but I want to improve the songhai article and try to bring it up to at least the calibre of the Kingdom of Kongo page. Problem is, there isn't a whole bunch of research on Songhai. Despite the Songhai Empire's heavy adoption of Arabic/Muslim culture, they didn't leave nearly as much stuff behind (in comparison to the Mali Empire that is). I've got very few books dealing with the Songhai Empire so I'm hoping you might be able to contribute. I know your busy, but any help is appreciated. Holla back when u can.Scott Free 21:18, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Hey homie. Nah i didn't see any othe edits. i can completely understand getting frustrated with wiki. so much to keep track of and all. thnx 4 ur help. glad u understad and dig my methods. i think Manden (Mali), Kongo and Oyo are the most important states in relating to where American blacks and pretty much all Blacks in the western hemisphere come from. Pretty much every ethnic group that made it the US was ruled or influenced by these states. In order to properly tell the history a narrative is essential and that's where it needs to start IMO. Personally, i think folks is jockin Songhai way too much. They were never as big as what is portrayed on that map. I'm working on upping some new images that are more accurate. thnx for the response. hollaScott Free 15:42, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

oh and by the way, did u peep the new chart and coat of arms image i put up for the Kingdom of Kongo?Scott Free 15:43, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

If you were me
Dear Taharqa, I know how you feel. I'm glad you feel a bit better, though. I have no sage advice, as I have problems myself. Ugh! I can only repeat what you've wrote to me; "Just stay cool and try not to lose your mind on here." See this essay, and know you are not alone - Staying cool when the editing gets hot. Take a break, and know things will work out eventually. It'll calm down in time. Come edit with me on Big Brother. lol - Jeeny Talk 03:26, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

email
yo u can hit me at scottfree001@gmail.com i'm pretty constant on there. Scott Free 03:47, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

August 2007
Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, the external links you added to the page Maurice Bucaille do not comply with our guidelines for external links. Wikipedia is not a mere directory of links; nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. Since Wikipedia uses nofollow tags, external links do not alter search engine rankings. If you feel the link should be added to the article, then please discuss it on the article's talk page before reinserting it. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Ds.mt 17:12, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

^I sent you a message since I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and you didn't even check the link.Taharqa 17:23, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

More for Taharqa on Hamite Somalians
link

Archive through May 20, 2007 Cj on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 6:54 am

I would really like to here more of this topic. The topic is very fascinating. I do think Somalians are Africans and clearly they're a mixed breeded people, which are mostly considered black, with traces of Arab, Middle Eastern, and Indian influences perhaps in their blood. Also one might say Ethiopians are not pure blooded blacks(negro). I am a black Canadian of Jamaican descent. I am interested in this topic, because when you get to here more about Africans, it brings you closer to your history. Because no matter where you live in this world, if your black then your heritage is Africa, because that is where your ancestry originated from.

^No, Somali are not "mixed" anymore than most other Africans are.. There is no such thing as a Hamite, I really hope you get that out of your way of thinking. Oh yea, and if anything, Ethiopians are more "mixed" than Somalis are, at almost 50%.. At least the ones sampled.Taharqa 20:22, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Re: Your complaint about being harassed
I am not an admin, so I cannot perform a block, and even if I could, I would probably wait for one or two others to examine the case.

I agree that Egyegy and his friends have gone out of their way to make your experience on Wikipedia difficult. However, since both you and he have been blocked at least three times, it is difficult to see, as an outsider, who is causing the trouble, and if blocking either or both parties will help matters.

I acknowledge the seriousness of the dispute. Even though the other users do not wish to cooperate, you still have options. I suggest you ask User talk:Newyorkbrad or another of the clerks for the arbitration committee if mediation or arbitration is possible in your case. I will have no further comment. Shalom Hello 19:42, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I've seen it
That's what bothered me. Not so much the changing of the articles, at first, but when I saw they were targeting you. I even went to that complaint you had and commented. Only then one of the "involved parties" followed me there, and accused me of wikistalking, among other things. lol. Please, though, Taharqa be very careful about your tone, do not stoop to their level, by constant reverting when you see them, and when they call you out. I know that's difficult, but that's what starts the heart racing, and your anger kicks in. I stopped the convo with Egyegy, after he started making outlandish claims. I know they're not true, so I was not going to let him goad me into behavior such as his. I'll step away a bit, because that is what makes all this chaos you talk about on Wikipedia, I won't be a part of it. Peace to you. - Jeeny Talk 16:22, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Hey
Calm down, man. It will eventually work out, but not if all parties keep throwing accusations around. Do not accuse others of things you don't like to be accused of. Please Tahaqa. I sent you an email, but I guess you no longer have the same one because I got an error message. - Jeeny Talk 19:39, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, good, stay calm and cool. Don't respond in the same way. Be the bigger person, talk about content, not the editors who get your emotions out of sorts. Again, I know it's difficult. Peace. - Jeeny Talk 20:04, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Songhai Empire
Yes, I suppose mistaking Sonni for Sunni is quite a serious error! My attention was drawn to the article from a fascinating NYT article... I wonder if you saw it? Cheers, DBaba 13:50, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah I didn't know a thing about western African imperial history really, except for a vague sense of Timbuktu once being a cultural center of the ancient world. That NYT article really is amazing, that there's a guy in the middle of a toppled civilization sitting around copying 500-year old records with ink he makes himself from gum to try to save the past from being forgotten forever!


 * I already went through a phase of obsession with Ethiopian history, and I still count the rock-hewn churches of Lalibela to be maybe the place I'd most like to visit in the world... if not for the airfare!  Anyway, I guess it's about time I learn something about west African history as well. Peace, DBaba 00:18, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

As a rule, western Sudanese (Mandinka/Songhai/whoever) referred to Berbers as whites. I can't think of any specific references other than from Ibn Battuta in his visit to Mali during the reign of Suleyman. Same ruled probably applied in Songhai I suppose. Tuaregs are another story. Tuaregs can definately be labeled "black". Berbers are usually much more fair skinned (think Vin Deisel).On the other hand, anyone who speaks berber (amazigh) can be called Berber.Scott Free 15:02, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Songhai criminal justice
awesome contribution, dawg. you're makking me eat my words on the great debate, lol. and thnx for providing a link to the document. that was a plus. i've been busy in the "heart of darkness" as it were- pounding out articles on Kongo. Just put up the following articles, which I will expand on later. Holla back.Scott Free 13:51, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Kasanze Kingdom
 * Kasanje Kingdom
 * The Jagas

Jewels
Hey check ur email. I sent u a lil somethin'.Scott Free 18:29, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

^Thanx, I'll go check it out now..Taharqa 19:17, 9 August 2007 (UTC)