User talk:Taksen/Archive 2

Hendrik van Rheede poisoning
Hi there, any chance of finding a reliable reference for this ? The blog link cannot be considered reliable under WP:RS guidelines. Thank you. Shyamal (talk) 08:04, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Issues with your editing
Regarding the recent issues at Talk:George_Frideric_Handel: GFHandel . 21:03, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
 * You have to learn not to personalise the debate. References to where I live, guesses about what I like, the "strangeness" of my username, etc. are unwelcome, off-topic, and against the spirit of editing at WP. You will eventually get into disciplinary problems if you continue to personalise issues.
 * It is clear that you have little knowledge of the policies and guidelines which so many editors find beneficial. You would do well to carefully read guidelines such as Manual of Style and Manual of Style (linking). You don't have to slavishly follow the guidelines, but you would do well to be acquainted with policy that large numbers of editors find useful.
 * You write in reference to me "He acts likes he is the boss here", however you have to remember that I'm an experienced editor who has added much content to WP. You need to determine why you are the only editor who believes I act like a "boss". You are confusing "boss" with someone who has a good knowledge of the guidelines and protocols at WP, and who isn't scared to step forward to apply them (where necessary).
 * You need to do more to find good references. There are a lot of rubbishy texts that present material in a school-boy manner. Just because information is found in a book doesn't mean it should be used as a reference. Books that reproduce the writings and music of Handel, or authoritative publications (e.g. Grove) are good to use, but books where the author has ventured opinions based other sources can be dangerous to use. We really have to be careful about presenting things as fact when they could very well be opinions.
 * You over-reach in a desire to add material to WP. An example is the picture you added to the collection of paintings article (which I removed). The painting was not one of the ones that was in Handel's collection, and what's more, it isn't even by one of the artists in Handel's collection. So why use it? We need to make accurate articles before pretty articles.
 * It is great that you are attempting to improve WP, and your English is reasonable, but you shouldn't be surprised if other editors feel the need to improve and simplify your additions.
 * You write "tries to hide my article, as he did with Royal Academy of Music (company)", however that too demonstrates a lack of knowledge about the process at WP. You added a main link to that article (an article which you had created less than one day earlier). Your article wasn't worth a main link (at the top of a section), and it still isn't. It wasn't a question of "hiding" your work, rather it was a question of using the link in keeping with the policies of WP. In the year since I reworded your main link into the article text, no other editor has complained.
 * You only wish to engage in discussion after you have made changes. Being bold is one thing, but mystifying large changes (such as this) are better discussed on the talk page before editing. You must always remember that you are working within a community of editors.

Plagiarism
Hi Taksen. I have removed text that you recently added. That text was a direct copy of someone else's work from a web page. You have been editing long enough at WP to know that you cannot simply reproduce (verbatim) other people's work in WP articles. Why did you? Before continuing to edit at WP you need to take some time to read the policies that guide editors (you could consider starting with Plagiarism and Copyrights). Failing to follow the basic guidelines means that you are taking up the time of other editors who have to fix the problems you introduce. GFHandel . 06:09, 14 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I dont think you can accuse of my plagiarism, when I mentioned the author. It is about time you should study the subject.Taksen (talk) 06:51, 14 January 2011 (UTC)


 * In the meantime I got a strong impression you are not interested in the content or in the information, but in applying the rules. Nobody should know Handel wasn't a connoisseur? Are you protecting our idol? It would have been easy for you to change the wording. Now i am sure you prefer you revert. It is easier, than helping someone on the other side of this wonderful earth. Yesterday was rather boring, compared to the day before, don't you think? Taksen (talk) 06:39, 14 January 2011 (UTC)


 * You cannot copy text like that. Either make it a quote (and even then it's debatable), or reword it. As the policy document states, copyright issues have legal connotations, so the rules must be watched and applied. The fact that you try to defend your actions is pitiful (and is bordering on intellectual dishonesty).
 * The point about "wasn't a connoisseur" is also pitiful. I'm stunned by the lack of perspective you show in adding information to articles. There are dozens of things you could research and add to the article before slavishly copying opinions about what Handel wasn't. You should be aiming to add facts about a topic before adding opinions from a web article.
 * Please take a long time to read the guidelines that the rest of us find necessary. You have taken the easy option to editing at WP, whereby which you feel you have the right to add any text in any way that takes your fancy—with scant regard to the damage you cause, and the work you inflict on other editors. I have the sincere hope that you do find out more about how to edit at WP so that all days are "boring" (and I can spend valuable time adding content to WP instead of fixing the damage you continue to cause).
 * GFHandel . 07:19, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Taksen, I believe you have reinstated the copied material, only slightly altered, into the article. Please try to understand WP's rules on this. Tony   (talk)  09:19, 14 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I've removed your re-addition of the text, which was (apart from a small elision) exactly the same as your previous version ( with ). Continuing to add word-for-word unattributed copied text will get you blocked, so please don't do it again.
 * Having said that, there are some other issues with the text as you added it. Wikipedia has no opinion according to our core neutrality policy, but the text you added implied that Wikipedia was stating as an absolute unchallengeable fact that Handel was not an art connoisseur. In actuality you were reporting the personal opinion of Thomas McGeary and nothing more than that. If you want to include such items in an article, you need to make it clear that the item is someone's opinion. For example, you might write something like "According to Thomas McGeary, Handel's art collection lacked some of the hallmarks of a true connoisseur" (with appropriate cite). Of course, you will also need to establish that McGeary's opinion is significant enough to be included in the article - presumably he's a writer or art critic of some note? EyeSerene talk 10:50, 14 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I dont see many people improving the article. Why is that? Reverting seems to be more popular.Taksen (talk) 11:10, 14 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately edits that are not policy compliant will be reverted. The solution to your work being reverted is not to hint at shadowy conspiracies or impugn the motives of your fellow editors, but to ensure your edits are policy compliant. For reference, our simplified ruleset sets out the key areas all edits must comply with with and explains the sort of behaviour we expect from our contributors. EyeSerene talk 12:07, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Handel's collection of art
Hello Eyeserene. Good afternoon. Quit a few people, who I invited to take a look at my list of artists, thought it was an interesting subject and list. Not very many people added the article, because I seem to be the only with this book on Handel on his shelf. It is not easy for me to express subtle details with my limited English, so I copied the whole sentence in the hope other people would use the information to improve the article. This does not happen and I am a bit disappointed I have to fix the article without any help. Did you check Balthasar Denner, Georg Friedrich Wreede or Isaac Johannes Lamotius? Am I really such a bad author?Taksen (talk) 12:40, 14 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you for those links. The articles are very interesting and I enjoyed reading them. You are very brave to contribute to a version of Wikipedia that's not your native language - I wouldn't dream of writing for the French Wikipedia (my only other language), though I suspect my French is much more limited than your English!
 * Regarding the Handel edit, I appreciate the problem you've had now you've explained it. As I wrote on your talk page, we have to be careful when adding opinion to an article, especially when that opinion can be seen as negative.
 * For edits like the one you made, the first thing I ask myself is, "Is Thomas McGeary qualified to give an opinion on Handel's art collection?" I searched on the internet and on oxfordjournals.org found what may be a copy of the book you have (see ). The article says at the top: "Thomas McGeary has written extensively about the reception of Italian opera, singers, and Farinelli in early 18th-century Britain. He has completed a book-length study on the satire and politics of Italian opera in the era of Handel, Pope and Walpole". From that I believe McGeary's opinion is an expert opinion and can be included in the article.
 * The next question is how to write the text. We've established that it needs to avoid being a direct copy or even too close to the original, but it might also help to avoid some of the objections if it includes some positive remarks too. Would you mind if I post something on the article talk page that we can all work on? EyeSerene talk 13:42, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Reverting versus fixing
Hi Taksen. On a number of recent occasions you've observed that other editors (myself included) have reverted rather than spent time improving your edits. My experience is that most editors are more than happy to improve text, however the issue with your edits is that they often contain too many problems. Poor grammar is one thing, but poor grammar coupled with: off-topic subject matter, POV information, plagiarism, misuse of sources, and the use of poor and obscure sources is quite another. Most editors are busy at WP, and it's unreasonable for you to continue to perform poor edits (usually in opposition to guidelines) with the expectation that other editors will spend time to fix text that you happen to think is important. Please don't be surprised if your text is often reverted, and you could do more to avoid that outcome by learning more about the policies and guidelines at WP, and by taking more time with your edits (including discussion prior to major change). GFHandel . 22:13, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of George Frideric Handel's art collection


The article George Frideric Handel's art collection has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Questionable notability for a standalone article. Propose it be merged into George Frideric Handel main article.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Alan the Roving Ambassador (talk) 20:06, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

The article


George Frideric Handel is reported to have had a great love for painting, and until his eyesight failed him, he enjoyed viewing collections of pictures that were for sale. He owned an extensive art collection consisting of prints (and copies) of paintings, c.q. landscapes, many ruins, hunting and battle scenes, marines, conversation and history pieces, erotica, but only a few biblical paintings and portraits.

It is not the learned collection of a connoisseur. It lacks examples from many important painters and their schools; ... he shows no interest in the most subtle aspect of connoisseurship, collecting Old Master drawings.

The paintings and prints in Handel's collection (that weren't bequeathed in his will) were auctioned a little over ten months after his death (the auction catalogue was dated 27-28 February 1760).

Paintings
Artists included in Handel's collection included: Pieter Angellis, Anthonie van Borssom, Jan Brueghel the Elder, Giovanni Antonio Canaletto, Annibale Carracci, Pietro da Cortona, Balthasar Denner, Willem van Diest, Nicolas Dorigny, Franz de Paula Ferg, Joseph Goupy, Jan Griffier, Jan van Goyen, Abraham Hondius, Horizonti, Cornelis Huysmans, George Lambert, Pietro Lucatelli, Théobald Michau, Pier Francesco Mola, Antonio Montingo, Joos de Momper?, Giovanni Paolo Panini, Charles Parrocel, Giovanni Antonio Pellegrini, Cornelis van Poelenburch, Jan Porcellis, Nicolas Poussin, Rembrandt, Marco Ricci, Sebastiano Ricci, Rubens, Salomon van Ruisdael, Louis-François Roubiliac, Andrea del Sarto, Roelandt Savery, Samuel Scott, Giovanni Niccolò Servandoni, Herman van Swanevelt, David Teniers, Peter Tillemans, Titian, Antoine Watteau, and John Wootton.

Johan de la Faille
Hi Taksen Can you tell me anything about this man Johan de la Faille (1626- 1713)See also associated with Den Haag. I have some references but nothing substantive. Notafly (talk) 21:18, 14 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Hello Notifly, long time no see. I wrote something this today here . Take what you need.Taksen (talk) 11:32, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

That is a very nice account indeed and in excellent English. I will add some internal links and maybe a picture at the weekend and then upload the whole thing.Very many thanks and best wishes from Ireland Robert aka Notafly (talk) 20:41, 15 February 2011 (UTC) No. Of course you must upload it. It is your work. Have you seen this ? Notafly (talk) 20:51, 15 February 2011 (UTC) I changed the order of the shell paragraphs and added links.If you agree with the changes upload it here (red link 1713). I think an article on Dutch cabinets and their place in intellectual development (note that the King of Portugal was a moderniser) would be a good plan but I need time to put together an outline. Talk to you soon. Robert Notafly (talk) 09:16, 16 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Hello Notafly, I did not expect you were making changes at the same time, while I was preparing the article for uploading. They might have get lost. Could you take a look again? Sorry for the trouble. Taksen (talk) 10:40, 16 February 2011 (UTC)


 * No problem.I work early so I will take another look tomorrow.Notafly (talk) 11:04, 16 February 2011 (UTC)


 * "...and in excellent English"—and the alarm bells didn't ring? They did for me, so I looked at some of the sources. The first two paragraphs that I checked are direct copies of text from the sources. Taksen, plagiarism is intellectual fraud and is not permitted on WP. Other people have commented on your propensity to plagiarise the work from other sources, but you now have proven beyond doubt your desire to: ignore the advice of others, and to ignore the rules and guidelines at WP. A very poor and lazy effort Taksen. Please remove the work you have simply copied from other people. If you don't (and soon) I'm sure other editors will. GFHandel . 19:09, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Copyright problem: Johan de la Faille
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, such as Johan de la Faille, but we regretfully cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from either web sites or printed material. This article appears to contain material copied from http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/aconite/wentletrap.html http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/aconite/cedonulli.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/18/arts/artsspecial/18COUPLES.html, and therefore to constitute a violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies. The copyrighted text has been or will soon be deleted. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with our copyright policy. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators are liable to be blocked from editing.

If you believe that the article is not a copyright violation, or if you have permission from the copyright holder to release the content freely under license allowed by Wikipedia, then you should do one of the following:


 * If you have permission from the author to release the text under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License (CC-BY-SA), leave a message explaining the details at Talk:Johan de la Faille and send an email with confirmation of permission to "permissions-en (at) wikimedia (dot) org". Make sure you quote the exact page name, Johan de la Faille, in your email. See Requesting copyright permission for instructions.
 * If a note on the original website states that re-use is permitted "under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License (CC-BY-SA), version 3.0, or that the material is released into the public domain leave a note at Talk:Johan de la Faille with a link to where we can find that note.
 * If you own the copyright to the material: send an e-mail from an address associated with the original publication to permissions-en(at)wikimedia(dot)org or a postal message to the Wikimedia Foundation permitting re-use under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License and GNU Free Documentation License, and note that you have done so on Talk:Johan de la Faille. See Donating copyrighted materials for instructions.

It may also be necessary for the text be modified to have an encyclopedic tone and to follow Wikipedia article layout. For more information on Wikipedia's policies, see Wikipedia's policies and guidelines.

If you would like to begin working on a new version of the article you may do so at [ this temporary page]. Leave a note at Talk:Johan de la Faille saying you have done so and an administrator will move the new article into place once the issue is resolved. Thank you, and please feel welcome to continue contributing to Wikipedia. Happy editing! Moonriddengirl (talk) 19:09, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Copying within Wikipedia
The listing period for this is closed. I found no copyright issues with the content that you proposed in the temporary page except that you have duplicated content from another Wikipedia article without giving necessary credit. Wikipedia's content is not public domain, but is liberally licensed for reuse. One of the conditions of that license is "attribution", or credit. The procedure for giving credit when you copy content from one article to another is described at Copying within Wikipedia. I have supplied credit in this instance (in edit summary here and at the top of Talk:Johan de la Faille and Talk:Epitonium scalare), so there are no lingering concerns there. But if you copy content from other articles in the future, please make sure that you give credit accordingly, and if you've copied content in the past without giving credit please go back and correct that. Thank you. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 14:03, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

De la Faille
Taksen I will alter all the word form following the procedure suggested if that will help but it will take a few days.What do you think Notafly (talk) 20:33, 16 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Hello Notifly, I guess I was to quick, and should have left uploading the article on Johan de la Faille to you. I don't understand why she removed all. The beginning of the article was really my work. The first four references can be used without any problem as no. 7. It seems very illogical to leave the refs, but not the text. The paragraphs on the shelves and the paintings were copied but I changed quit a few things and most important I added references, so everybody could see I was not the author. I learned from a lawyer in the publishing business, it is all about paying tribute to and honour the original author.


 * I just heard on the German tv, their Secretary of Defense Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg is in trouble, not because he copied other people's material in his thesis, but because he did not mention the source, which I did. There is probably a difference in European law and that in Florida, which I don't grasp.


 * The paragraph on conus cedunulli fits better to Pierre Lyonnet, don't you think? Their is a lot of information which could be skipped, like on the prices and on the clothes of the woman. I was also thinking of writing an email to Wadworth Atheneum and let them know about the article. I assume I have to wait. Taksen (talk) 21:39, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It is all blanked because, given the extensiveness of your violation of copyright policy in the rest of the article, the content which has not yet been identified needs to be carefully evaluated to ensure that it is your own work. This is not a simple matter of plagiarism, which can be addressed by attribution. This is a violation of the Terms of Use. Except with brief and clearly marked quotations in accordance with non-free content and policy, we do not accept imported text unless it can be verified to be public domain or unless it is compatibly licensed, and even in those cases content must be properly attributed in accordance with Plagiarism. It has been explained to you in the past that you cannot simply copy content from external sources. Doing so again is likely to lead to sanctions against your account. Please review Copy-paste. And if you have copied content into Wikipedia in any other articles, please identify them so that the copied content can, in accordance with policy, be removed. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 00:46, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. It seems that the text you added to the article is too close to the text in the sources. As GFHandel and Moonriddengirl have explained, we can't allow this for legal reasons (Wikipedia could be sued for copyright violation). You really need to be more careful about not copying text because editors who keep adding copyrighted text to Wikipedia are usually blocked to protect the site. EyeSerene talk 08:45, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

The number of visits does not surprise me. The De la Faille info is on my card index I think it came from Shell Collecting: An Illustrated History (1966) by S. Peter Dance. I will request other works on shells and cedonulli at the library and work on the page next week.Be very careful with copyright issues I can't afford to miss out on the all important Dutch language sources.I can almost always reword information (which tends to come from a very few sources anyway). Talk to you soon RobertNotafly (talk) 16:04, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Hello again
I'm after a favour and I was wondering if you could spare some time. I'm organising this which is in Derby in April. We then plan to have a multi-lingial challenge. It would be helpful if the Derby Museum page had versions in a number of languages even if they were mini-stubs. I'm asking just a few people who Ive dealt with over the years and you are one of my more gifted wiki polyglots. Hope your well and thank you anyway. Victuallers (talk) 10:50, 24 February 2011 (UTC) Thx Taksen - the cover of languages grew considerably Victuallers (talk) 15:42, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Your comments
As touched as I am by your concern that I might die stupid, it's not relevant to the editor on whose talkpage you wrote it and it's not relevant to the ongoing discussion there either. If you have further comments to make to me that are actually related to Wikipedia please make them at my talkpage. -- Beloved Freak  12:13, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Possible copyright violation
Despite being warned against the practice, I notice that you have once again simply copied-and-pasted sentences from secondary sources into an article. There is a discussion about your actions here. GFHandel &#9836; 22:37, 11 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Taksen, this is a formal warning not to insert copyright or closely paraphrased content into Wikipedia articles. I see you have never been blocked; let's try to keep it that way. While I think GFHandel could have been more diplomatic in some of the things he has said, he is essentially right; the onus is on you to ensure that everything you add to mainspace is your own work, paraphrased from reliable sources. Please be more careful. --John (talk) 07:05, 12 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I did mention Mr Beam once, and sent him an email if I he is willing to help me out with the wording. So far, he has not responded.Taksen (talk) 12:11, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Use of minor edit flag
Please don't mark your edits as minor unless they are genuinely minor. See Help:Minor edit for more help. --John (talk) 15:20, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Blocked for copyright violation
I have blocked you from editing for inserting copyrighted text from http://www.numismatas.com/Forum/Pdf/David%20Ruckser/Coins%20of%20Sweden.pdf into our Christina, Queen of Sweden article, in spite of several warnings. Please use your blocked time to read up on our copyright policies if you intend to continue editing here. Let me know if you need any help. You have been blocked temporarily from editing for abuse of editing privileges. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you would like to be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the text, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. --John (talk) 17:33, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Hello John, I never saw that article before, proof it I was the one. I have nothing with numismatics. I recognize many phrases though, they must have been inserted by some else and done before my insertions. Please check again. Usually I make references. This website is not mentioned in the reflist. I am pretty sure I was not the one who added these sentences into the article, please apologize. Taksen (talk) 17:44, 14 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Oops, I see what happened. You moved a paragraph that was already in the article and I didn't spot that it was already there when you started. I will unblock you immediately, with my apologies. --John (talk) 18:10, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

I dont see why you had to revert all my edits from this morning. Mainly from a German website which not many people here can read. It was a lot of work. It has nothing to do with the so-called copy violation from this numismatic article. Strange.Taksen (talk) 18:28, 14 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I restored your edits; I no longer have an issue with them. I can only apologize again for the error I made. --John (talk) 18:52, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

I still can't work, because I am blocked for some reason. I would like to add a link to Christina, you can guess which one. Now I know where many of the sentences come from I can change the content or add sjablons.Taksen (talk) 21:33, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Copyright violation and plagiarism
On my talk page among other things you wrote:

I guess from your style of writing that you are not an American. What you see in the movies about American lawyers is true, it is both a strength and a weakness of their country. If Wikipedia does not take all reasonable steps to avoid libelling a living person, then if Wikipedia is sued the project could end up bankrupt and have other measures taken against it. Hence WP:BLP has to be taken seriously.

Another area where we (Wikipedias) must not stray from the law of the United States is copyright violations. Again it is not a moral position it is a legal requirement and just like libel if we as a community were to tolerate it then, like libel, the fines and the restrictions could destroy this project.

Detail of copyright policy can be found in the copyright policy follow it to the letter. To help you do that, see the non-free content guideline.

To the specific points. It is no good you saying that you have spoken to the chap and he says its OK, it comes down to prove it (because if it goes to court Wikiepdia would have to prove it). We have a mechanism for doing this see the article Richard Lindon and Talk:Richard Lindon. On it you will see an OTRS notice. If you want to copy text from standard copyright source (without complying with standard copyright requirements) you must get an OTRS ticket.

Plagiarism is a different issue because it is not a legal one but a moral one. You wrote "I contacted an experienced scientist and he told me if this person is not the author, I should not worry." well yes he can have his opinion but this is a contentious issue and it led to one experienced editor leaving the project, when the consensus was against him. So I suggest that rather than relying on a third party on this you follow our plagiarism guideline to the letter.

If you suspect someone else of copyright infringement we have guidance on that as well, see copyright violations guideline. To gain some experience on the subject of what is and is not acceptable I suggest you put Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Copyright Cleanup on your watch list and monitor the conversations.

To the specific problems you were having with the article Amadigi di Gaula, User:GFHandel and copyright. GFHandel while not using the most temperate of language is correct, without an OTRS you can not copy content from a copyright page either from a book or from a web page. I will leave a message on his/her talk page about his/her tone.

You state on my talk page "Someone who seems to follow me". I have checked through you edit history over the last couple of months and I can not see any evidence that anyone has been following you. If you wish to present me with 4 or more pages where you have edited and then the person has turned up and edited the page for the first time then I will look into the allegation more closely. -- PBS (talk) 08:10, 22 November 2011 (UTC)


 * One other thing, I am happy to give you advise, and you can use my talk page any time like, but given the work load that Jimbo has do you really think he has time to personally intervene in the 1,000 of disputes that occur here every few days? I suggest in future rather than posting to User talk:Jimbo Wales you post to WP:ANI. But be warned, if you do post to WP:ANI and your post is considered frivolous or your conduct in a dispute is considered to be out of order, you may have sanctions placed on you. So do not go to ANI unless you can show a clear breach of behavioural guidelines by the person you are complaining about, and remember that initially you must assume good faith. -- PBS (talk) 08:23, 22 November 2011 (UTC)


 * See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Copyright Cleanup --PBS (talk) 01:32, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Reply
Hello PBS. Thanks for your patient reply. Yesterday I learned a few things.
 * One should never copy material directly from a source without putting it in quotation marks, "like this", or in a quotation box. Understandable suggestion from Looie496
 * Many people have "problems" to recognize plagiarism and half of the students cheated, something that did not surprise me. In fact and in many aspects we learn from copying other people.
 * I have never been accused of plagiarism on the Dutch or German Wikipedia. It has to do with the culture on this Wikipedia and my skills in English.Taksen (talk) 18:35, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I added on my watch list and read what you suggested, but I got lost within ten minutes. Those rules are very complex and elaborate. Not everybody is able to comprehend thousands of suggestions.
 * Of course I did not expect Jimmy Wales would reply, but I got what I wanted: an easy and quick solution for my problem so I could change the lay out, without the help of the author of one of the articles I used.
 * Because of my limited English don't expect elaborate replies from me, and arguing with other people. My brains are suited for and interested in history.
 * Greetings from Amsterdam.Taksen (talk) 07:06, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

PS. Because of actions in the past against me I lost one interesting contact User: Notafly, which I really regret. We were cooperating every now and then. See Copyright problem: Johan de la Faille.Taksen (talk) 07:25, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Well this Wikipedia does have strict rules regarding copyright and plagiarism, and enough dedicated editors (who have taken the time to read the policies) who will check the content that you add. I assume your skills in English are sufficient to have read the many previous sections on this talk page which bring to your attention your transgressions of those policies? So I'm hoping that we won't need to go through this again?
 * You write "I have never been accused of plagiarism on the Dutch or German Wikipedia", but that's not entirely true is it? With this edit you introduced the text " Om deze aanval te wreken werd Da Gama in 1502 met een vloot van 25 zwaarbewapende schepen naar Calicoet gestuurd. Dankzij zijn goedgebouwde vaartuigen en superieure vuurkracht was zijn aanval een groot succes " which was copied exactly from an external web page. Your addition (which looked like it was your own work—based on the reference to the page your gave) was immediately reverted with a comment pointing out that you didn't use any mechanism for quoting the copied text. For some reason, you didn't like the revert, so you replaced all the text in the article with the words "Website closed" (although my Dutch is not sufficient to determine why you would do that). This incident led to a discussion on your talk page which mentioned "copyvio". That incident proves two things: the Dutch Wikipedia has policies on copyright and plagiarism (which you also didn't take the time and care to read), and that you have been accused of plagiarism on the Dutch Wikipedia. That incident was over three years ago, so forgive me for being suspicious when your comments above make it appear that you are finding out about using a quoting mechanism for the first time.
 * If you are either not willing, or are unable to read Wikipedia's policies about copyright and plagiarism, perhaps you shouldn't be adding text here that is based on external sources? As a suggestion, if you are in doubt about text you wish to add, please create a section on the article's talk page, paste the text there (with the rest of your intended edit), and ask the community whether it is appropriate. Based on your admission about not being able to read the policy, and your "skills in English", I'm sure you'll agree that's a reasonable approach?
 * GFHandel &#9836; 20:52, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Hello Mr. You are really a good policeman. Because of the incident I contacted DBNL who gave me the following reply:

Geachte heer Tichelaar,

Linken en deep linken naar de DBNL is geen enkel probleem. Korte citaten kopiëren is ook geen probleem. Zie ook 1. Als er nog vragen zijn hoor ik het wel.

Vriendelijke groet,

I left out one name, that seems more apprioriate. The wikipedian who started this action me called himself Nederduivel, something like Dutch devil. I don't think he is active anymore. The email is three years old, so I cannot repeat here what else was mentioned in the footnote.

Kind regards.Taksen (talk) 21:28, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


 * But what you claim to have been told by DBNL is not the point. Here are the points:
 * The owner of a source must officially contact Wikipedia to release the rights for the information to be reproduced on WP. There is a mechanism on the English WP for that (and I'd be surprised if the Dutch WP doesn't have a similar mechanism).
 * Regardless of the release of information, you must still attribute it properly when used on WP.
 * It still doesn't explain why you would claim to never have been accused of plagiarism on the Dutch Wikipedia.
 * I think what continues to irk me is your refusal to acknowledge that someone else is right (let alone that they have a point). There's a saying I like that is pertinent to this case: When an honest but mistaken man realises the truth, he either ceases to be mistaken, or he ceases to be honest.
 * GFHandel &#9836; 21:44, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Hendrik Carloff
Please take a look at Hendrik Carloff. May be you find something that could be improved. Taksen (talk) 22:06, 23 November 2011 (UTC) And sent me a picture so I can see what you look like.Taksen (talk) 22:13, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
 * No problems—I will look. I have to run off for a photographic assignment now, but I promise I will look when I return. GFHandel &#9836; 22:18, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Before I will be blocked again, which seems to be prepared, but hardly a punishment, because I could still work on the Dutch, German or French Wikipedia, I suppose.
 * Please tell me why you so attracted to me, it cannot be plagiarism, because you can hardly call it such as I mentioned the source. Besides there is Christina, Queen of Sweden where you could have uncovered plagiarism, but you did not. It seems to do with something else. Am I an easy target? Something similar happened on the German and Dutch Wikipedian where an Austrian who has a lot of knowledge on Dutch history in the 17th century was blocked several times. Allthough he made a lot of mistakes, he was a painter and not a historian, he knew what was going in Amsterdam, far more than many other people in Holland.
 * Secondly what you did on the Dutch Wikipedia is dangerous. You left half of the content out, which is understandable, but not correct. In those days I just had discovered how to make references. You found an interesting case, and the topic worried me lot. One of the scientists I cited there calls the whole internet a copy machine and people put there websites there to be read and used. By the way I suppose my Ënglish is better than your Dutch, but it is nice you tried.
 * Thirdly I usually start to work in a sandbox, but because my topics are obscure nowadays, and when I need to check what links are here, I move them and go on. Nobody went to look at Antonio Pimentel de Prado and hardly nobody checked all the other Italian composers and poets, Swedish scientists or politicians which I recently started. In the past I updated the articles on Johannes Vermeer and many other Dutch painters. All over the world there is interest in these people, just like in Dutch scientists from the 17th century, see Antonie van Leeuwenhoek. These article are valuable, not only for the English Wikipedia, but also for all the other Wikipedia's in languages I have sometimes never heard off. The Russian Wikipedia is translating a lot Dutch articles, each day I see a new lemma. It is important the content is not from a book that dates from the 17th or 19th century and as soon they are translated is not a case of plagiarism anymore. But some people here have strict and strange ideas. I once had to change the content of a caption.
 * Because of the community I have to confess here I was wrong. This reminds too much of what was happening in the GDR are Peoples Republic. Are you sure this is the right way?
 * Not very many people were born as good writers, it is a profession that you have to learn by experience. The nice thing about Wikipedia is that you can always go back to your articles and change the wording or add new information. I really appreciate that is the most attractive argument.
 * You were either attacking me or slimy. Can't you find a new balance so the conversation will become more pleasant or funny. Why you left immediately after I suggested to take a look at Carloff? Because this subject is not in your interest and G.F. Handel is? Why do you want to argue with me, and hinder me. Is not there someone your age, who speaks your language better than I do and is more interested in legal matters? As soon I received your picture to get mine too. It might help to improve the conversation. Taksen (talk) 10:04, 24 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Just when I think some progress is being made, you respond with the above. Well...
 * I have no idea why you think you will soon be blocked.
 * There won't be any pictures. Will a picture change the logic you will be applying to the conversation, or will it change the way you edit on Wikipedia?
 * I explained why I couldn't help with the Hendrik Carloff article (today). Based on the above response, I'm going to reconsider the priority of my assistance at that article.
 * As I explained to PBS, I have watch-listed all the Handelian articles so it is inevitable that our paths will coincide in that area. I'll leave it to other editors to handle your transgressions on other articles.
 * What I did on the Dutch WP was find one example of where you were accused of copyright violation. Based on your denial that any such thing existed, it was disappointingly easy to find one counter example.
 * As much as you would like copyright and plagiarism issues to be treated in a "funny" manner, unsurprisingly there are a large number of editors on the English Wikipedia who won't. As long as policies are in place, we all have to abide by them. I'm genuinely sorry that you don't believe the policies should apply to your editing style.
 * If you really disagree with the policies on the English Wikipedia, then you should start dialogue on the relevant talk pages of those policies. Please don't impose your unhappiness with the policies to individual articles, and to the hard-working editors at those articles. If you do, you are only wasting your time and the time of other editors. You are also discouraging the other editors who have reconciled themselves to work within the policies and guidelines.
 * I'm disappointed by your "apology"—which seems somewhere in the middle of: a real apology, an attack, and a self-justifying essay.
 * GFHandel &#9836; 11:01, 24 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Sigh! and just when I think some progress is being made, you respond with the above! I thought Taksen, that you were asking GFHandel in a completely informal way to act as your mentor, and that GFHandel (while not jumping at the opportunity), was willing to give it a go. But obviously either I was mistaken or you have had second thoughts.


 * Having explained why Wikipedia can not tolerate copyright infringements, having explained why we will not tolerate plagiarism, and having shown you the policy and guideline pages (You can take a horse to water but you can not make it drink) Other editors are not required to continue to assume good faith in the presence of obvious evidence to the contrary. I am now issuing you with a warning see the next section. -- PBS (talk) 05:04, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Warning
You have repeatedly added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without permission from the copyright holder. You have been asked a number of times not to do it. The excuse of not understanding the Wikipedia polices and guidelines is unacceptable. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other websites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of article content such as sentences or images.

Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and as a persistent violator if you breach the copyright policy, and I am informed of the breach I will block your account indefinitely and then initiate a section on the Administrators notice board to ask for a review ask of my block. Given your previous conduct, even if the block is shortened you can expect the block to last for months not days. -- PBS (talk) 05:04, 25 November 2011 (UTC)