User talk:TakuyaMurata/old talk 4

regarding the name of the class entry - see Talk:Class (object-oriented programming) - for Mintguy's defence. Martin

- Hi Taku. I might be making a mistake wading into this, but I think there might be a misunderstanding going on. So, keep in mind that I think you are a valuable contributor, and I'm very sorry that things have gone badly like this. That said, there are two separate issues being discussed here.

The first is that, for example, Meiji Emperor is not proper English. A native English speaker would say Emperor Meiji (when I was teaching in South Korea, my students called me "Stephen Teacher". I didn't correct this, as it was meant as a respectful title. However, English speakers would never use that phrase). This issue isn't really a big deal; it was just an honest mistake and it is easily fixed.

However, there is a second issue, and this is what's causing the problems. In renaming these emperor pages, you've created a chain of redirects the point to other redirects. The Wikipedia software doesn't handle multiple redirects very well. The best way to understand what I mean is to click on Meiji. It redirects to Meiji Emperor of Japan, which redirects to Meiji Emperor, which redirects to Meiji emperor, which then redirects to Mutsuhito. Unfortunately, only the first redirect works. Please click on Meiji and follow all the links so you can see what I mean. This forces a reader who wants to learn about this emperor to click three or four times to reach the actual article, and they may become confused, thinking that we don't actually have an article. This is called a "redirect chain". I've made a few of these myself. When I do, I go back and change all of those redirects so that they point at the same page, because it's messy work and I don't think it's right for me to expect others to clean up after me.

So, it's this bunch of redirect chains that is the big problem, not the actual names of the pages. Nobody can order you to fix it; we're all volunteers here. However, it would be very polite of you to do so since you built those redirect chains. If you still refuse, I'll volunteer to fix it myself, but it will take quite a while, and I may need you to answer some questions for me.

If I'm not explaining this well, please let me know. -- Stephen Gilbert 16:39 Mar 21, 2003 (UTC)


 * Yes, I know that mess has annoyed everyone including you and me. Ok, it may sound but I don't mean to be sarcastic. But I just feel you do not quite understand me. My motivation was not so high. I thought the naming is incorrect according to a common name convention I follow usually so I was going to rename them. But I stopped in middle because I found there are quite a few disputes of the title of articles. Some advocate putting "of Japan" is necessary and some including you argue that {title} Emperor sounds weired. I think the strength of wikipedia is that you do what you can do and you don't have to what you can't or find hard to do. I found naming problem regarding Emperor of Japan too much to handle. I am really unwilling to keep massive debate to convience others. You may find me irresponsible, lazy. If by refuse you mean I didn't do what I am supported to do, you can't expect me to follow your norm. We don't share only one norm altogether. I am sorry I don't really mean to play a unagreeable guy. But remember I have no authoriy of the title of Emeprors of Japan articles. Hence, your asking is rather meaningless to me because I can't say anything. -- Taku 23:58 Mar 21, 2003 (UTC)


 * I feel you don't quite understand me, either, but I don't know how to clarify. The problem is not the titles of the Emperors of Japan articles. I don't care if it is at Meiji or Meiji Emperor of Japan or Mutsuhito or even Meiji emperor. The problem is the mass of broken redirects between all these pages. Did you click Meiji to see what I mean? Anyway, I intend to make good on my promise and fix them for you in the next little while, so we all can just put this behind us. Sound good?

Yes, I was talking about the redirect chain mess. I wonder why people assume I don't know that redirect chain mess. -- Taku 01:32 Mar 23, 2003 (UTC)


 * I don't know about anyone else, but I assumed it because you were talking about the naming of the articles and "following norms". Doesn't matter, I guess. I'll see what I can do to fix things. -- Stephen Gilbert 21:46 Mar 24, 2003 (UTC)

Because if you don't know how to name, how can you fix them? Ok, suppose if I started to rename every title of Emperor of Japan by the format {title} Emperor. Quite a few questionably started to complain about it. Some argue we shoud put of Japan, some say Emperor {title} is more natural, while some say {title} emperor (notice small e). Unfortunately, I am unwilling to convice all of people. Anyway I warn you should talk some before actually starting renaming otherwise you will encouter other norms you don't follow. -- Taku 22:02 Mar 24, 2003 (UTC)

Taku, are you up for a WikiProject called Japanese prefectures. We would have to start with an format and outline first before we continue reverting each others changes ;). --synthetik 06:04 Mar 22, 2003 (UTC)


 * Good point! Have you noticed even I am planning to use bot to implement complete stub for all of Japanese cities. No one wants conflict. -- Taku 06:06 Mar 22, 2003 (UTC)


 * I know that you are using a bot. I think until we have defined a common format for the prefectures you should not run the bot on those pages as it would mean redoing a lot of later. Unfortunately I don't have too much time this weekend but I have a look at starting the project and get some definition together best thig would be to go and copy one of the other ones so we don't have to start from scratch. If you want to create the WikiProject yourself go ahead and drop me a note.
 * cheers, --synthetik 06:17 Mar 22, 2003 (UTC)


 * About bot, actually bots are not so harmful. It is quite trival to change the format of articles generated by bots. Actually I am not so interested in the format of prefecture. I would rather to know the format of each city, county, town and village, in other words, municipalities. See funaba. I think the format of cities in USA is good as someone suggested. I started to work on Japanese cities because it seems there are many articles of Japanese cities in ja.wikipedia having been created recently. I think it is a good oppotunity that we finish the basic coverage of Japanese local governments. Anyway, I will go to WikiProject. Just give me comments. I will appreciate. -- Taku 06:33 Mar 22, 2003 (UTC)


 * Funaba??? Should that not read Funabashi? (&#33337; -> Funa &#27211; -> bashi). With the &#24066; appended it becomes Funabashi-shi (&#33337;&#27211;&#24066;). Is that the bot making the mistake or is this just something you overlooked? synthetik 08:09 Mar 22, 2003 (UTC)


 * Exactly. I simply deleted all of shi or machi at end. I will fix it. -- Taku 16:43 Mar 22, 2003 (UTC)


 * Nevermind, JFYI I created a WikiProject for the Japanese prefectures have a look at WikiProject Japanese prefectures --synthetik 17:33 Mar 22, 2003 (UTC)

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Problem with -- browser says the image has errors :( -- Tarquin 23:01 Mar 24, 2003 (UTC)

Ack! I will look at it. Just a moment. -- Taku 23:10 Mar 24, 2003 (UTC)

---
 * Hyosuke Kujiraoka, a former vice speaker of the House of Representatives

Which House of Representatives? The Japanese one right? --mav

Yes, I corrected links refer to House of Representatives of Japan.

Taku, I am going to start fixing emperor articles. Please stop me if I "machi gatta" before I "zenbu shimasu" -- Uncle Ed 01:01 Apr 3, 2003 (UTC)

Sorry for having a go at you earlier. It is just very important that a talk page be moved because otherwise the discussions on it are lost and it isn't fair for those who took part in the discussion. If we are all careful (and I have to be too) we avoid creating unnecessary problems and allow everyone to work on new articles. :-) wikipeace. STÓD/ÉÍRE 02:47 Apr 3, 2003 (UTC)

Why would you redirect from "high-level language", which uses correct hyphenation, to "high level language", which does not? If you doubt that the traditional use of hyphens is a magnificently efficient way of conveying information, consider the difference in meaning between two newspaper headlines:


 * New Age-Discrimination Rules Proposed
 * New-Age Discrimination Rules Proposed

Michael Hardy 00:17 Apr 5, 2003 (UTC)


 * Yes, you are right. You already made a correction. It is no problem. -- Taku 00:20 Apr 5, 2003 (UTC)

About Wikiproject Japanese districts and municipalites. I think the naming conventions should be adopted before further expansion. "{city}" for a city is o.k. because cities are well-known and almost unique in Romaji. However, towns and villages are a different matter. Too many names conflict. So I think all towns and villages should be titled "{town}, {prefecture}" or "{village}, {prefecture}". -- Nanshu 01:05 Apr 26, 2003 (UTC)


 * True. I really didn't think there are too many conflicts. I will update wikipedia project too. Give me a comment if you have some. And thank you for pointing out. -- Taku 18:09 Apr 26, 2003 (UTC)