User talk:Tancred/Archive1

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~&#126;); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! --Flockmeal 22:14, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Help pages
 * Tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style

hello. i don't know where you are from, but in Australia, "football" is known as soccer. i can't be bothered to get in a large scale editing war, but i ask you to take note. Xtra 06:56, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

ahh, i see where you are coming from now. you see, if you ask a victorian "what is football?" 999 times out of 1000 the answer will be aussie rules. in N.S.W. footy is not so popular and rugby isnt realy called football, so there would be less problems. however, i am almost certain that this new "football" terminology will never catch on in victoria or south australia and maybe even western australia. IMO (as a Melburnian) this is the product of a Sydney dominated (i.e. frank lowy) soccer association. i doubt this re-badging will improve soccer's waining popularity in australia. btw, i used to play soccer. Xtra 00:28, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Actually Rugby is called football. 02:20, 2 October 2006 (UTC)02:20, 2 October 2006 (UTC)02:20, 2 October 2006 (UTC)02:20, 2 October 2006 (UTC)Topcattheirrefutable 02:20, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Sydney F.C. kit
Are you sure about the single navy sleeve? Because, frankly, if so it's IMAO the most ugly football uniform of any code or club I've ever seen, and I follow the AFL so I'm an expert on the subject. ;o) Looking at the photo on the web site, I suspect it might be something a little more like this:

What do you reckon? &mdash; J.K.

Getting the SFC kit right could be a pain. I was working off this pictres - http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/53286300.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DEA53A95B58FB16D359A305AA491B0BE8BED32BA69FD85EC39 but this one is a little better http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/53286301.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DEA53A95B58FB16D359A305AA491B0BE8B05725BB3C5694D66 I think that neither mine or yours is 100%. Perhaps this is a close as we will get -

--Tancred 09:19, July 26, 2005 (UTC)

I did wonder why Bling FC would go for such an, erm, creative design... There's the answer: everyone else (well, Central Coast and at least one other club I can't pick, anyway) is doing it. Hmm... since it's more than one club with the same bad idea in different colours I might see if I can put together a special pattern for the purpose. "_blueuglyshoulder", here we come... J.K. 09:57, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

All 8 clubs have their kit deal with Reebok. It was never going to be a great range of strips :( --Tancred 12:09, July 26, 2005 (UTC)

Hey, a little late to join in on this I guess, but procrastination led me to these attempts

Working off Home Shirt, Home Shorts, Away Shirt, Away Shorts. Let me know if you think it's an improvement and I'll add it to the page, otherwise I won't bother... Not sure which of Away1 or Away2 more closely matches. Also would've liked orange shoulders, but that doesn't exist. Cursive 20:00, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Actually, come to think of it, taking into account the colour of the carpet in the background of those photos, the light blue is probably meant to be the same shade throughout..., therefore

Cursive 20:05, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Perth Glory
Do you really think the word "football" usually refers to soccer, and not Aussie Rules, in Perth? J.K. 08:51, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Lets see. They are Perth Glory Football Club, The state federation is Football West, and the fans at gloryboys.net call the game football so yes in perth Football & Australia Rules Football is played. --Tancred 09:14, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

Oh, I don't dispute that. Problem is, the fans down at the Eagles and Dockers supporters' bars are calling their game "football" or "footy" as well, and there are more of them. As for the official names, they don't count for much --- this is Wikipedia, and my understanding is that popular local usage generally trumps "official" usage. (If you're feeling masochistic, have a dig through Manual of style). J.K. 11:25, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Please do not blank categories without explanation
I just reverted a category who you rendered an orphan by blanking it. Please do not do this without explanation. JesseW, the juggling janitor 05:38, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for leting me know the renamed category. The way to get rid of categories that were wrongly created is to put a speedy deletion tag on them, and include the reason you want them deleted in the tag, like so: ''' { {deletebecause|I made this category under the wrong name. It is now under Category:the new name.}}'''. Then an admin will come along and delete it(as I did with the one in question) very soon. For details on the cases where you can use the speedy deletion process, see WP:CSD. This one would probably fall under General 7, as you were the only author. Most blanked categories fall under Category1, and renamed ones under C3.1. Thanks! JesseW, the juggling janitor 06:25, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Aussie Stadium pic
Glad you like it :) I've just spent 5 days in Sydney and I think 4 1/2 of them were behind a camera :P  So I'm uploading any good ones I can find to Wikipedia - I have added one to the Telstra Stadium article as well! -- Chuq 23:54, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Bling FC
Hi Tancred, I notice that you removed the Sydney FC nickname of Bling FC from the infobox. That kind of change really shouldn't be marked minor, it's removing information after all. Anyway, I'm trying to spark some debate on Talk:Sydney FC about what the nickname field should contain and since you seem to have an opinion on the matter, I'd encourage you to give your views. ⁂veila# 09:03, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Football vandalism
For your information, I'm a huge soccer fan. I just don't think it's fair for one code to be allowed the footballers tag all to theirselves. Also, football (soccer) was the agreed compromised term, but you just seem to be ignoring it. And also I think its interesting how you work on Sydney's sides but never Melbournes. For example, even the poorest players in your league have a better biography than ours. Don't say you support it when you only help your own side, not the team in general. I love soccer and I love the name socceroos and I'm not going to stand here and let you let people think the name doesn't exist. You're obviously an immature little child because this is the 3rd time you've reverted to childish namecalling, yet I've never once called you anything. I changed them to soccer because you changed them to footballer, not association footballer or the agreed term. If you don't like it, then don't go against the agreed terms. Don't send me anymore messages. I do not have time for silly name calling. No wonder soccer has such a bad reputation with arrogant people like you.


 * Try and understand what I say here Sliat 1981, firstly, have a look through here [] and find out how to sign your comments. next, if you are going to accuse people of certain things, remember anyone can look through the history of your edits.  You have written "changed the players names to footballers rather than football (soccer) players", next you have written " I changed them to soccer because you changed them to footballer,"  I'm not sure what reality you live in, but the edit history proves you wrong.  Example one  - Ben_Griffin_%28footballer%29.  Look at the history, first *you* changed "footballer" to "soccer player".  I then reverted it.  The same pattern happens at David Williams (footballer). *you* changed "footballer" to "soccer player".  I then reverted it.  This pattern happens again and again, in pages in your history.  Why did you not use "football (soccer)" when you first made the edits? Tancred 13:01, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I am insulted and highly offended by you. That annonomous editor was warned because he/she continually moved a page after bewing warned not to and even though (whether you like it or not) consensus has been reached on the name. All you have done is to encourage that vandal to keep on wasting all our time. Thank you verry much! Xtra 11:17, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Wow, so you were "insulted and highly offended by" bo hoo. I and many others were offended when a number of small minded people, who were not maintaining the football pages decided that the name needed changing. Your claims of a "consensus" being reached is also totally false. A number of the people who were actually *editing* and *improving* the pages got sick of arguing with the small minded people on this site and left. This is in no way a "consensus". Anyone who wants to move the pages back to where they *should* be has my full support. Tancred 02:09, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

With that attitude you do not belong on wikipedia. How dare you encourage vandalism and then defend yourself merely because you agree with the vandal's POV. You have been around here long enough and should know better. Xtra 02:15, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Wow, so when a person moves a page to where they think it should be, and you disagree it's "vandalism". He moved a page - it was far from vandalism, and there are a number of people who supported the move.Tancred 02:20, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Who put Grant65 and other Aussie Rules wikipedians in charge of Australian football? I just made a simple change and this guy chose to revert it. Why? Why does he care and why do we have to convince him personally? --Debunct 15:45, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Some months ago, Grant65 just started moving pages, and arguing about it all. He, and a few others drove a number of editors away, and now they claim a "consensus" was reached. No consensus was ever reached, and many people want the pages returned to football. However if you make changes, you are accused of vandalising pages and threatened with being blocked! - see [] - all this user did was revert some pages but according to certain Aussie Rules loving people its vandalismTancred 00:35, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I noticed that you have been linking an article to a double redirect, please avoid doing that. In addition...you guys should seek agreement as opposed to just reverting. Voice -of-  All T 04:01, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah sorry about the double redirect - I was in the process of checking my edits, when the Wikipedia servers seemed to stop for a few minutes :(   As to an agreement?  If certain Aussie Rules loving people would leave the football articles alone, this problem would go away. Tancred 04:55, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Whether you like it or not Australian Rules is football. It is not a point about AFL v soccer, it is about proper Australian usage. And proper Australian usage is to refer to soccer as soccer. Xtra 04:57, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * If you want to talk about proper Australian usage, Aussie rules is "Aussie Rules". perhaps I should start changing all of their pages? The correct name for what you call Soccer is Football.  It's the official name of the game, and should be the name here.Tancred 05:00, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Soccer is common usage in Australia and common usage is the standard, not official name. Xtra 05:25, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * ok then, shall I start changing all the "Australian Rules Football" pages to "Aussie Rules" or will you?Tancred 05:58, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

What country do you people live in? Seriously. Since when is football the common usage for Aussie Rules? It is never called football, it's only ever called Aussie Rules. And yes, all the instances of Australian rules football should be changed to Aussie Rules, except we don’t really care about Aussie Rules, which is why we don’t vandalise Aussie Rules pages. So leave us to our football, we’re not hurting you. Unlock the door and let us back into our home, we'll take care of things from there. --Debunct 11:03, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * 1) The same country as you — we just hang out with different people. "Football" is and has been common usage for Aussie Rules among the game's players, fans and indeed most people who live in an area where it's by far the most popular football code probably since the game was invented, simply because there's no need to call it anything else when there's no other similarly-named games people might mix it up with. Nevertheless, (a) English is a language rich in synonyms, so having a few other names (such as "Aussie Rules" or, more commonly than correctly, "AFL") to toss around is always nice and (b) when there are other football codes which people might confuse it with, we're going to use those other names rather than risk confusing people. That's why, during this dispute, I make sure to call what I usually call footy "Aussie Rules". And why I don't want an article an article with the words "football" and "Australia" in the title referring to a different sport to the ones most Aussies think of when they first hear the word.
 * 2) I don't vandalise soccer pages either. In fact, I turned Adelaide United FC from turgid fancruft into something resembling a proper encyclopaedia article (no small feat, if I do say so myself) and drew the little uniform pictures for the funny angle-shoulder designs that Sydney FC, Central Coast and the New Zealand Knights have. I played soccer for nearly ten years when I was a kid, and then I'd go and watch Port Adelaide games the next day. I like both sports, and I want both sports to have good Wikipedia articles written about them.
 * 3) It's no coincidence that this dispute revolves around the national team. It first flared up after we qualified for the World Cup, because that attracted people who don't normally give a crap about soccer any more than you do about Aussie Rules or rugby to the article. (Funniest example: this edit.) We're not going away, our interests in these articles are no less valid than yours. And if you have constructive edits to make to Aussie Rules articles, you don't need me to tell you you're more than welcome. See WP:OWN. ～J.K. 08:04, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

So guys once we've sorted all this stuff who's with me when I change all references of table tennis to ping pong?--Hack 06:01, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Australian Football Hall of Fame
According to the Australian Trade Mark On-line Search System, "Australian Football Hall of Fame" is trademark number 898836, registered to the Australian Football League. Under Australian trademark law, the AFL has exclusive rights to the phrase, and it would be illegal for the FFA to use the name for their Hall of Fame or to market themselves using the phrase. The AFL article will shortly be moved back to its original location. Do not move it again. Snottygobble 04:07, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * The page has been moved back to its original location. I used the rollback tool to revert some of your disambiguations, because it was convenient to do so, not because I think you are a vandal. Apologies for any offense caused. Snottygobble 04:38, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

The Fa are calling the hall of fame - Football Federation Australia Football Hall of Fame. This is the name in use so I have moved the page.Tancred 21:33, 13 March 2006 (UTC)


 * And you also changed the introduction to refer to it as the "Australian Football Hall of Fame". That is not its name. So please stop inserting patent falsehoods into the article. Snottygobble 22:41, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

You have constantly changed the players names to footballers rather than football (soccer) players which I was told was the agreed term. FFA sought to name the sport football, they did not say that the term will only be used soccer. Therefore, there is no right to say the Aussie rules player or rugby players can no longer be referred to as footballers. The term is NOT going to be reserved for soccer players, so unless you are prepared to accept that AFL and Rugby players share the name, you can leave it at the agreed term. Unsigned comment by Sliat 1981 07:16, 16 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually you paranoid little troll, you changed several hundered pages from football to soccer. I reverted them.  If you dont believe me check the history of the pages.  see

[] & [] for just two examples. You should also start to sign your comments. Not once have I made a change to a page about Aussie Rules players, or Rugby players, nor Rugby League players. I have been editing and *working* on some of the Football players. You spend you time on a pointless crusade against football. Tancred 08:10, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

We call it football, we do
How many mainstream media outlets (on the web, at least) now refer to football as football? Here's what I have, so far.


 * Nine Msn
 * Fox Sports
 * SBS - The World Game
 * ABC Sport
 * Sydney Morning Herald
 * Sportal Australia
 * The Daily Telegraph
 * The Australian
 * The Sunday Times
 * The Mercury
 * NT News
 * SportsAustralia.com

Close
 * Seven Sport - Football (soccer)

any others? add them here.

Do any sites refer to Aussie Rules as football? Not even the Aussie Rules cheerleader, The Age, does. --Executive.koala 03:47, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
 * The Herald Sun does. As does the Adelaide Advertiser. Xtra 04:40, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Moreover, Nine's coverage is sourced from Sportal (two sites, one lot of writers) and similarly the above News Ltd sites are all using stories sourced either from overseas or from "the news.com.au network" (for which read Sky News) — not local stories which would actually reflect local usage. Those don't make it online at all. The exception is The Australian, whose story doesn't actually name the sport in question at all. If the Mercury and NT News actually use the word "football" for the round-ball game in stories about local matches in their hard-copy editions, I'll eat one. My copy of today's Australian uses "soccer" in a headline (Sport p. 9), but doesn't have any stories on the Australian game Australian soccer (see, these kinds of mistakes are the reason we shouldn't use the word "football" for soccer). This Fox Sports link does as well. All this linking is proving is that there's no real agreement over what to call it.
 * Oh, yes — to change the official usage at a media outlet, you only need to talk one person round, the relevant editor. Changing what people actually use, in real life, every day takes much longer, and is harder to measure. When they start calling soccer "football" on the buses to Port games, I'll let you know.～J.K. 07:10, 17 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Not all news limited newspapers online use the heading football. The editors chose to use it. The Courier Mail for example, do not.  And when I find out what Port means, I'll let you know. --Executive.koala 22:50, 17 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Or you can just follow the link. ;o) ～J.K. 01:05, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Only two! Makes a mockery of this POV statement -Even in the countries where "football" is the official name of association football, this name may be at odds with common usage; this has occurred in Australia where official attempts to re-brand soccer, in the early 21st century, are at odds with usages of the word "football" established more than 100 years earlier. What a crock? It sounds like something Grant65 wrote. It has his usual patronising school headmaster tone about it. --Executive.koala 05:02, 17 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I still agree with Grant65 that football is not common usage in Australia for soccer. And attacking Grant65 like that will not help in consensus building. Xtra 05:13, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
 * And channel 7 refers to soccer as soccer. Xtra 05:16, 17 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Well it could be worded a lot better. For an attempt, it's been pretty damn successful. Why is there no mention of the media usage of the term. Is it because this doesn't help his casue? --Executive.koala 05:26, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

sliat_1981 here. To what you put in my inbox, yes I will always delete any topic sent to me from you and every time you try to talk to me about an issue on a site I will always ignore you and never ever respond to you. Therefore this will be my last message to you ever. No matter how many you send me or how often you reply to things that I don't ask you, I will never, EVER talk to you. So goodbye and have a good life.


 * Wow, you really are a close minded little person. I will contine to post on your talk page, until you actually learn to read and understand entire comments/edits/articles, and not just the parts you like.Tancred 05:48, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I've been doing some thinking. Maybe I have been too hard on you. You did abuse me, but to be fair, you haven't done it since and may have leanred not to. The fact is you always come to answer my questions with insightful information. There are times I want to dicusss, but my stubbon nature gets the best of me. There are so many things I want to discuss, but can't as no one else seems interested. I I am willing to forget all this unpleasantness and move on because there is is much I want to debate (friendly of course) and ask about soccer. But before we start fresh, I just want to make two things clear. 1) No more name calling. I know you are not the only one and I have been guilty of it too, but no more. I don't like it and I'm sure you don't either. 2) I just want to say, the fact that I still call it soccer does not mean I am any less a fan as anyone else here. It's a personal choice. I grew up calling it soccer and have gotten too used to it to stop now. It doesn't not mean that I am not a fan at all. Plus all my friends call it soccer and they are even more crazy about it than me! That aside there are so many things for us all to discuss. And I'm willing to start fresh if you are.

Jebus Christ
Just wanted to say thanks for the support Jimididit 12:28, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Football AID 2 April - 8 April
Thank you for participating in the Football AID vote this week. Timeline of football (soccer) has been selected as this week's collaboration. Please do help in working to improve it.

'The future' section of A-League
I notice you re-wrote this - do you have any references? I've just noticed that Hobart was removed from the list unexplained, and all the speculation from official sources includes it. -- Chuq 06:03, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I removed Hobart from the options as at the moment Hobart does not have a stadium to play football in. John O'Neil was on Foxsports shortly after the A-League finals talking about one of the successes of the A-League was talking football out of the lower quality grounds and into modern, centraly located stadiums. Given the quality of stadiums in Canberra, Townsville and shortly in Wollongong and the Gold Coast it's very hard to see a team playing in Hobart any time soon.Tancred 08:16, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Football AID 9 April - 15 April
Thank you for participating in the Football AID vote this week. FC St. Pauli has been selected as this week's collaboration. Please do help in working to improve it.

WP A-League player project
Hi Tancred! I just wanted to let you know about the big WikiProject A-League 2005–06 player project. It is an attempt to bring the articles on every player who played in the A-League in 2005–06 up to standard. Check out the main page for the player project to get the full list of players as well as useful links and stats to help out. Hopefully we can get the full list done before the beginning of the 2006–07 season. Don't forget to update the counts (they will automatically update the status bar) as you go. Thanks! AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 10:16, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Australia-footy-bio-stub
Someone has created an Australia-footy-bio-stub, so I suppose we'll have to track down all the Australia stubs and re-tag them.--Runcorn 11:56, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Topcattheirrefutable
Thanks for your quick response to the sockpuppet tags Topcattheirrefutable is throwing around :) Tancred 10:36, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
 * You're welcome- i don't believe that there is any validity in them at all, and i'll continue to remove them until Topcattheirrefutable has something valid to say. Cheers, and happy editing-  Cat tleG  irl  Talk to me |undefined
 * Hey Tancred - sorry that user:Topcattheirrefutable decided to tag you with a sp tag - apparently we're the same person. I've put together a SP evidence file against User:Ehinger222 and I'm not sure exactly what happens now, but if you watch that page you'll see soon enough I'm sure. The edits bear remarkable similarities to each other, as well as to earlier SP's as mentioned. Anyhoo, thought I'd pop by, and make sure you get up to Gosford for the big derby in a couple of weeks. cheers, Dibo 01:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Expansion of WP:A-League
Hi ,

Just thought I'd let you know there is currently a proposal to expand WikiProject A-League to include all areas of football/soccer in Australia, including the NSL, A-League, Socceroos, state leagues and more. A more formal proposal page can be found here. Please indicate whether you support the idea or not at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject A-League, and also add your 2c about what the new project should be called. Cheers! – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 04:09, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

You've gone!
Hi Tancred, Your edits on WP:A-League led me to check you user page, and find that you have moved to Scotland! Hope you enjoy it, of course it would be great if you stuck around with WP:A-League but living in the land of EPL that may be hard to do! Regards, -- Chuq 03:21, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Old, declining or expired Australian vocabulary
Hello Tancred,

You're in the middle of an edit war with User:147.10.112.157 over at Old, declining or expired Australian vocabulary I see. Being from Sydney, I think of first rugby league when I hear the word football but I agree that the more precise term should be employed in that aformentioned context (it's not Old, declining or expired N.S.W. vocabulary). However, this slang list has been copied to Wiktionary because Wikipedia isn't a dictionary. Thus I've made the page a redirect to Australian English vocabulary from which you can link to to wiktionary appendix in question. Please continue your edit war over there if you have to but as luck would have it, it's rugby league there. Jimp 20:48, 25 November 2006 (UTC)