User talk:Tango/Archive09

Happy New Year!
Dear Tango,

Wishing you a happy new year, and very best wishes for 2009. Whether we were friends or not in the past year, I hope 2009 will be better for us both.

Kind regards,

 Majorly  talk  21:18, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Signpost updated for November 24, 2008 through January 3, 2009
Three issues have been published since the last deliver: November 24, December 1, and January 3.

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new WP:RDREG userbox
The box to the right is the newly created userbox for all RefDesk regulars. Since you are an RD regular, you are receiving this notice to remind you to put this box on your userpage! (but when you do, don't include the |no. Just say   ) This adds you to Category:RD regulars, which is a must. So please, add it. Don't worry, no more spam after this - just check WP:RDREG for updates, news, etc. flaminglawyerc 07:34, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia Signpost, January 10, 2009
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The straw poll
Check | here. Both of my test moves to my sandbox were marked as minor. I had no control over that. Jonathan321 (talk) 21:05, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmmm... interesting. They seem to be marked as minor on diff and history pages, but not watchlists. Seems like a bug to me, I'll report it. --Tango (talk) 21:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I've actually done one better, I've fixed it myself. Hopefully no-one will disagree with me that page moves ought to be major and revert it. Either way, it will probably take a few days for the change to be implemented on the live site. --Tango (talk) 22:10, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Meetup/Birmingham_3
Is at the discussion stage. Go on, you know you want to. Sticky Parkin 03:02, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Re: Ref desk, your answer
I did NOT intend to revert you. I asked a legit question, along with that Lomn asked, only someone called it "Soapboxing". Can you reinstate your answer? Powerzilla (talk) 03:18, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I got very confused by that - I happened to edit conflict with you while answering another question and ended up with a really weird diff! I think it's all fixed now (I'll leave you and Algebraist to fight over whether it's a legit question or not). --Tango (talk) 03:21, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * We were discussing the article Carjacking and this Louisiana law. That law allows people there to kill carjackers, even IF they think some idiot will carjack them. See also the Ref desk Talk page as well, for another source. Powerzilla (talk) 03:51, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I know what the dispute is about, I'm just not getting involved. --Tango (talk) 03:59, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

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I actually LOL'ed
With this edit, you nearly made milk squirt out of my nose. At least, you would have, had I been drinking milk. For that accomplishment, you deserve a barnstar. Cheers! – ClockworkSoul 00:45, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * :-) --Tango (talk) 01:01, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

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ambient light?
What does ambient usually mean? If Uranus and Neptune's ambient light is blue-green, so I won't notice cyan? Then what color would the atmosphere look to me if I won't notice the blue-green? Would orange look black?--69.226.46.118 (talk) 23:11, 28 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Ambient light is the light that's all around you, rather than coming directly from a particular source. If you hold up a white piece of paper, it will appear whatever colour the ambient light is (although you'll still perceive it as white, as we've discussed). I'm not really sure what the light is like on Uranus or Neptune, it will depend on how deep you are in the atmosphere, for a start. Unless the ambient light contains no (or almost no) light the same colour as a given object, it won't appear black. An orange object would look orange, the eye (or rather, the brain) adjusts for the difference in the colour of the ambient light. I guess an orange light, on the other hand, would appear a little different since the eye would adjust unnecessarily (since it makes its own light, its appearance doesn't depend on the ambient light), the eye would remove a little blue and green, so I guess it would look redder than it should. --Tango (talk) 23:30, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

it won't appear black You meant it will or won't appear black for the 6th line you post.--69.226.46.118 (talk) 00:07, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It won't. It will only appear black if there is absolutely no light of the appropriate colour for it to reflect. I would expect the ambient light on Uranus or Neptune to contain pretty much all frequencies of visible light, just in different proportions. --Tango (talk) 13:37, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Wikimedia UK Newsletter - January 2009 Issue
Summary: We lead with the exciting news that we are now recognised as Wikimedia UK by the Wikimedia Foundation. This means that we can shortly open a bank account and approve membership applications. Planning is also underway for a new website and for the upcoming Annual General Meeting. Meanwhile, we continue to support Wikipedia Loves Art, which will launch on 1st February and the bid to hold Wikimania 2010 in Oxford, and bring news of recent and upcoming meet-ups.

In this month's newsletter:
 * WMF approval and chapter formation process
 * New website
 * Annual General Meeting
 * Wikipedia Loves Art
 * Oxford Wikimania bid
 * Meet-ups

''Wiki UK Limited is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. The Registered Office is at 23 Cartwright Way, Nottingham, NG9 1RL.''

Delivered by Mike Peel (talk) 19:48, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Uranus and Neptune
What you meant by I would expect the ambient light on Uranus or Neptune to contain pretty much all frequencies of visible light, just in different proportions ? Did you meant they are ambient to orange, blue, and green color? They extract orange light and absorbes cyan light? So did you meant I will be so used to seeing cyan/orange light I won't notice it. What aobut Saturn's ambient color? The problem is Saturn is too faraway from sun, it only get 1/100 amount of sunlight than that of Earth.--69.226.46.118 (talk) 22:54, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The light coming from the Sun is a mixture of different frequencies (ie. colours). The planet's atmosphere is unlikely to absorb all the light of a given frequency, just some of it for certain colours. That will change the proportions of different colours, so will make certain objects look a different colour that they usually would (although you wouldn't notice), but it won't make any of them look black unless they were black to start with (it may make them a little darker, though). --Tango (talk) 23:00, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * So will Mars look white to me if I'm orbiting around it, since the ambient light is vermilion, when the vermilion color washes away would the surface appear white when I'm landing on it?--69.226.46.118 (talk) 23:29, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * If you are in orbit there isn't really any ambient light. Only objects directly facing the Sun will be illuminated. They, however, will be illuminated with white light, pretty much by definition (our eyes perceive white as being the neutral colour because that's the sun emits). Once you are within the atmosphere, the ambient light will be reddish, but the ground will look whatever colour the ground is (probably grey, maybe slightly reddish brown, the ice caps would be white). The eye compensates for the coloured light so you see what you would see if it were illuminated with white light. --Tango (talk) 00:11, 30 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Then what would be the colour of Moon if I orbit around it. WOuld it look gray, since the ambient light on it's surface is black-and-white or monochramic. But astronauts landing on the surface during the day makes the surface looks brown. The dark side would look profoundly black, since Moon have no atmosphere.--69.226.46.118 (talk) 05:13, 30 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, humans have been on the moon. When Appolo 11 took pictures, moon looked silver to dark gray. In space, do people use color camera, or black-and-white. Earth looks blue, like normal when humans orbit around it. I thought it is always a very tricky thing to define the absolute truth color, seeing from space. Venus is ambient to yellow, so if I fly around Venus myself, would it look almost white, or odd shades of blue? Venus is 30% clsoer to sun than Earth, so the light is around 4 times brighter than sunniest day on Earth, or maybe the color vision on Venus will just burn off right?--69.226.46.118 (talk) 01:32, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, the Moon is dark grey and Venus is kind of yellow, so that's what you would see from orbit. It is difficult to define "true colour" when talking about space for the exact reasons we're talking about, but I think photos taken of the entire disc of a planet from space are pretty accurate colour (unless they are intentionally false colour, of course). It really would be easier if you asked these questions on the ref desk, then other people could answer. --Tango (talk) 22:53, 31 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Would we not notice yellow when we actally orbit around Venus. The thing is our own eyes get so used to seeing yellow, we just won't notice yellow. Rather than would Venus' surface actually look gray or pale orangeish?--69.226.46.118 (talk) 23:26, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * If you are in orbit, you wouldn't be surrounded by yellow, there would just be a yellow disk when you looked out of the window. --Tango (talk) 23:38, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * What if I'm orbiting around Uranus and Neptune looking out the window?Will it even look cyan/blue to me? What about Pluto? Since it is too faraway from sun would it's disc even look black to me if I'm orbitng around it?--69.229.108.39 (talk) 00:09, 3 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Would I be surronded by yellow if i'm orbiting around Saturn? Saturn is 100 times dimmer than earth, disc would look close to black looking out the window? Or Saturn will look bluer than it should?--69.229.108.39 (talk) 02:19, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
 * You can answer that yourself. Imagine yourself in orbit around Saturn, is Saturn in all directions from you? --Tango (talk) 11:40, 3 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Tango, What you say about sunlight 100 times dimmer than Earth? A thunder strike your house at midnight. When we light a candle at 20-30 feet away. That's hardly enough to cast light. So When we look down at Saturn, it will look essentially dark, mostly almost black. What color is Saturn ambient to? Is it tawny or yellowish brown smog surrounding us? Once we get used to yellowish brown we just won't notice it. The sky color does not affect what color the disk will look like it space. I know Saturn's sky is not black until we get deep into the interior levels.--69.229.108.39 (talk) 23:08, 3 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The problem with telling the truth color in space is our crummy eye color vision. Mercury is 10 times brighter than sunniest day on Earth, this is what SteveBaker said so the color on Mercury will just be excessively bright too see color (brighter than electric white), with our own eyes, even with our strong sunglasses, I thought. So If I'm trying to land on Mercury would mercury look no color but irritating white light?--69.229.108.39 (talk) 02:25, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

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Delievered by SoxBot II (talk) at 22:09, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Rational series
To list the rational numbers as q1,q2,... such that sum( (qi - q(i+1))^2 ) is finite is not too hard, but it helps to tackle some easier problems first. Try to find a surjection q from the positive integers to the rational numbers between 0 and 1 such that sum( (qi - q(i+1))^2 ) is finite. In other words, only handle a/n for 0 ≤ a ≤ n, and feel free to repeat numbers more than once. Handling all rationals exactly once is not much different. Careful of saying too much on the ref desk, as the guy really is just pasting in his homework assignment, 3 out of 14 problems so far. JackSchmidt (talk) 20:01, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the tips. I'll take your world that it's possible... I don't really do analysis (I'm more into algebraic number theory). I could probably get there given time, but I'd rather go and find some food! --Tango (talk) 20:05, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

WT:RD
Based on your comments there, I have been reverting this guy's posts to your talk page. Please tell me if you don't want me to do so. Algebraist 00:04, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * That's fine. I actually edit conflicted with you as I told him to go somewhere else, but just removing it works to (I did say "without comment", after all!). --Tango (talk) 10:12, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Fascism on the Ref desk/Humanities
I read your comment about well-formed sentences, and quickly started to re-read what I had written in the immediately preceding response. I was down two lines before I realized that you were not likely addressing your comment to me. It is really easy to get sidetracked into the personal here. I am beginning to understand why everyone seems to have such a thin skin. Anyway, no problem here, of course. I thought you might find my initial reaction funny. (I had also been annoyed about the OP's style: I kept reading "cud" to rhyme with "mud" and would then have to backtrack for meaning.) ៛ Bielle (talk) 18:41, 6 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Did I mis-indent? If so, sorry for the confusion! Even if I didn't, it's very easy to get confused about who is talking to who in those kind of threads - I've certainly done it! --Tango (talk) 18:45, 6 February 2009 (UTC)


 * You didn't do anything wrong. I was just too quick to make assumptions. ៛ Bielle (talk) 18:56, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Wiki-etiquette
You just conflicted me vcould you not see an inuse? Giano (talk) 15:37, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Inuse doesn't mean other people can't edit it. That self-reference was completely inappropriate, and I've removed it again. --Tango (talk) 15:40, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

It will be in a moment needed - it is why there is an inuse - it means observe some ettiquette. Giano (talk) 15:44, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * If you are going to discuss his Wikipedia article in the article, then do so. Putting the date it was created in the lede with no explanation is inappropriate. Just because you are still writing the article doesn't mean people can't read it. This article is because discussed in the media, it is important that it follows basic policy (such as notability and undue weight) from the start. --Tango (talk) 15:48, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I am welll aware of policy, if you know so uch why not write it yourself, instead of hindering those that are? And what's more I doubt even my fame is so great that my writing is discussed in the media within seconds of me creating it. Giano (talk) 15:59, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * You've referenced newspaper articles discussing it (they weren't discussing the current article, sure, but the current article is where people reading those newspaper articles will end up). --Tango (talk) 16:02, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Which is why I am attempting to set the record straight, this story broke last night, I waited for others better qualified, like yourself to write it, they did not. So don't keep complaining. Giano (talk) 16:05, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

No personal attacks
This is a serious personal attack; putting or restoring the name of the original creator of an article into a biography in order to draw attention to him because you disagree with the creation is beyond the pale. You have been blocked for 24h. &mdash; Coren (talk) 21:50, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Since most people can't see the diff, Tango included, it would be helpful to give context into the background of this punitive block.  Majorly  talk  21:58, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I had, indeed, not considered that the diff would no be accessible. I am referring to the inclusion of the username "Giano II" with wikilink in the text of the article Giles Hattersley (a biography of a living person) as its author with an emphasis on the matter during a dispute about the propriety of the article.  &mdash; Coren (talk) 22:04, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Simply put, it is an attack because it is inappropriate contents whose inclusion was likely (if not certain) to offend an editor and escalate a dispute. &mdash; Coren (talk) 22:06, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I saw the edit, and do not believe it to be a "serious personal attack", certainly not one to block someone over, 3 hours after it happened.  Majorly  talk  22:08, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Majorly, you know very well that we do not credit authors in the text of an article; this mention of Giano was strictly for the purpose of painting him in a bad light as a malefactor. Regardless of how appropriate (or not) the original article creation might have been, both editors knew &mdash; or should have known &mdash; that this unacceptable addition (and reinsertion) of the name in the next of a BLP could only serve to offend and anger its target.  &mdash; Coren (talk) 22:17, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm still wondering what purpose this block is serving, Coren. The incident took place nearly three hours ago; Giano II has been blocked and unblocked; Jimbo has deleted the article. Is this block serving any kind of purpose? If so, I'd like to know what it is. Otherwise, please undo the block. With regards to the other user you blocked, I have no opinion, as it was he who apparently included the information originally. Tango merely restored it.  Majorly  talk  22:22, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't understand this block, either. True, the edit was ill-advised and violated several style norms and so forth, but an attack? That's hardly credible. I'd support an unblock.  Sandstein   22:26, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * (2x e/c_ Based on Tango's edit summary, and Conti's edit summary, I don't think Tango was trying to attack Giano. He was merely saying that Wikipedia's logs are a reliable source. He even said that he was not making a judgement on the content of the edit. I would also support an unblock. J.delanoy gabs adds  22:29, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

(undent) It would seem that, while the actual text being reverted was very much inappropriate, the reversion itself was done in good faith on other grounds. I've unblocked stating so; sorry for the short block. &mdash; Coren (talk) 22:43, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the unblock. A lot of this seems to be drama for drama's sake. There are a lot of allegations and admin actions being thrown around that are really not serving any purpose. A journalist has written a negative article about Wikipedia and we've resorted in infighting and childish bickering - what does that say about us? Let's all stay calm and handle this like the rational people I know we all are. --Tango (talk) 22:44, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It would appear you've been stuck in the middle of a very ugly mess. The newspaper article was a nasty enough event without that article being written in response; and because of the level of tempers and some of the involved personalities, we were all more on edge than we should have.  &mdash; Coren (talk) 22:53, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Cheers! --Tango (talk) 23:10, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Things certainly went down differently over here than for me. I only wish I had known of this discussion at the time. MickMacNee (talk) 01:47, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I would have told you but, well, I was blocked! While I don't think there is any evidence that you added the content in bad faith (so the block was uncalled for), there is a difference between adding content and reverting a badly justified removal of content. I had a rather easier case to argue. --Tango (talk) 13:46, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

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S. O.
Your comment on the refdesk got a big laugh here. --Milkbreath (talk) 21:04, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
 * All I did was answer the question - the comment about squid was someone else (unsigned). --Tango (talk) 21:08, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh. Never mind. --Milkbreath (talk) 21:18, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia Signpost &mdash; February 23, 2009
This week, the Wikipedia Signpost published volume 5, issue 8, which includes these articles:


 * Philosophers analyze Wikipedia as a knowledge source
 * An automated article monitoring system for WikiProjects
 * News and notes: Wikimania, usability, picture contest, milestones
 * Wikipedia in the news: Lessons for Brits, patent citations
 * Dispatches: Hundredth Featured sound approaches
 * Wikiproject report: WikiProject Islam
 * Discussion Reports And Miscellaneous Articulations
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 * Arbitration report: The Report on Lengthy Litigation

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Thanks and a request
Thanks for signing up at Peer review/volunteers and for your work doing reviews. It is now just over a year since the last peer review was archived with no repsonse after 14 (or more) days, something we all can be proud of. There is a new Peer review user box to track the backlog (peer reviews at least 4 days old with no substantial response), which can be found here. To include it on your user or talk page, please add. Thanks again, and keep up the good work, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 04:30, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Message from MACherian
from:'MACherian' {||||} [email address removed to prevent spam] Would you be kind enough to review my submission 'On Gödel's Conjecture', on my user talk page, which for convenience is appended below. [I am new to the use of Wikipedia]. Thank you MACherian

On Gödel’s Conjecture Abstract: ‘Not (proved or disproved)’ does not exhaust all reference to ‘proved’, or ‘disproved’.

Gödel presents his Incompleteness Theorems as proof that in natural numbers, inductively (recursively) generated as a ‘denumerably infinite’ set large enough for his numbering procedure, there is no consistent and complete formalization of elementary arithmetic. His proof is conditional on the axioms of Principia Mathematica [PM], with the added axiom of infinity (in the form he wants it, viz. ‘there are exactly denumerably many individuals’), the axiom of choice, and Zermelo-Fraenkel-von Neumann axioms of set theory appended to the Peano Postulates. [Collected Works Vol.1, OUP 1986 p.124]. He says, "…all methods of proof used in mathematics today have been formalized in them, i.e. reduced to a few axioms and rules of inference. It may therefore be conjectured (Vermutung) that these axioms and rules of inference are also sufficient to decide all mathematical questions which can in any way at all be expressed formally in the systems concerned", (p.145). For his conjecture to hold he also needs to have shown that only valid formulae follow from the rule-following inferences he relies on of PM.

If ‘p’is taken as true, and ‘-p’ false, the logical and the formalist equivalence and truth of:
 * p| < = > |(- -p)| < = > |(p or -p)| < = >|-(p and -p)|, viz. the laws of double negation, excluded middle and non-contradiction follow. Any one statement taken as true implies implies the truth of any and all the others. Based on the same axioms and rules of inference, on which Gödel [p.145] claims that in a formally deductive system, an arithmetical statement cannot be 'proved or disproved', i.e. -(p or -p), and hence is undecidable from within that system; he could have added that it is also not |-(p and -p)| i.e. ‘proved and disproved'; and ‘-p’, i.e. ‘disproved’. ‘Not (proved or disproved)’ does not exhaust all reference to ‘proved’, or ‘disproved’.

The law of Double Negation is |-|-p| < = > |p|. There are only two ways about it, either p or else -p, viz. the law of the excluded middle |p or -p|. |-|-p| is another way of writing |p|, and |p or –p|. Against Gödel, it is only necessary to show that the law of excluded middle |p or -p| entails that of non-contradiction |-(p and –p)|. When only |p or -p| is true, |p and -p| is false, |-|p and -p| is true viz. the law of non-contradiction. Equivalent steps of deduction are used in PM. The equivalence of |p or -p| and |-|p and -p|, also follows by De Morgan’s Rules (included in the PM) starting from either side.


 * I'm afraid formal logic is among my weakest areas, so I'm probably not the best person to review this. Try Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Mathematics. Good luck and happy editing! --Tango (talk) 14:08, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia Signpost &mdash; 2 March 2009
This week, the Wikipedia Signpost published volume 5, issue 9, which includes these articles:


 * Books extension enabled
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Delievered by SoxBot II (talk) at 08:46, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Wikimedia UK Newsletter - February 2009 Issue
Summary: The chapter is now up and running, and we have now opened our bank account. We have a new website, and are putting plans in place for the first Annual General Meeting. Meanwhile, February has seen the successful Wikipedia Loves Art at the Victoria and Albert Museum, bidding to host Wikimania 2010 has opened, and the Government's Intellectual Property consultation has closed. We also bring the regular news of meet-ups, and a new feature highlighting press coverage of Wikimedia in the UK.

In this month's newsletter:
 * 1) Chapter formation process
 * 2) Website
 * 3) Annual General Meeting
 * 4) Wikipedia Loves Art
 * 5) Oxford Wikimania bid
 * 6) IP consultation
 * 7) Meet-ups
 * 8) News coverage

''Wiki UK Limited is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. The Registered Office is at 23 Cartwright Way, Nottingham, NG9 1RL.''

Delivered by Mike Peel (talk) 20:02, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Med advice on the Ref Desk
Hi Tango -

For your reference, there's a standard protocol at the Reference Desks for responding to questions which have been identifed as potential requests for medical advice; see Reference desk/Guidelines/Medical advice.

If you think that a question doesn't meet the definition of a medical advice request outlined by that document, you can participate in the discussion on the Ref Desk talk page (Wikipedia talk:Reference desk); a thread can always be started there when a question is removed. Please don't just revert the editor who removed the request; that leads to the edit wars that in turn led to the creation of the medical advice guidelines in the first place.

If a consensus evolves that the question wasn't a request for medical advice, it will be restored to the bottom of the appropriate Desk page at that time, and it will receive the care and loving attention of all the Desk's denizens. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:03, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Hey!
Thanks for answering my "Jane" question on the reference desk. Hopefully, your advice will help "Joe". Visit my page sometime! <(^_^)> Pokegeek42 (talk) 00:31, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem - best of luck to you both! --Tango (talk) 01:21, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Meetup
A reminder that the Manchester meetup is this Saturday. Hope to see you there!  Majorly  talk  18:56, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

My redundant answer on the refdesk
Hi, sorry I seemed to imply that you didn't mention the irradiance/radiance distinction in Reference_desk/Science. My answer was sort-of directed at User:Edison, who seemed to want the distinction highlighted more prominently. I have modified my answer to remove the "missing from this discussion" bit. Someone42 (talk) 05:48, 17 March 2009 (UTC)


 * That's fine, I was just a little confused! --Tango (talk) 14:12, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia Signpost &mdash; 9 March 2009
This week, the Wikipedia Signpost published volume 5, issue 10, which includes these articles:


 * News and notes: Commons, conferences, and more
 * Wikipedia in the news: Politics, more politics, and more
 * Dispatches: 100 Featured sounds milestone
 * Wikiproject report: WikiProject Christianity
 * Discussion report: Discussion Reports And Miscellaneous Articulations
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Wikipedia Signpost — 16 March 2009  Unsubscribe &middot; Single-page &middot; Full edition &raquo;  — 16 March 2009


 * News and notes: License update, Commons cartoons, films milestone, and more
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Manchester 5
Hey there. I notice you were interested in Manchester 4; we're in the process of organising another one for some time in April. Hope you'll attend :). Ironholds (talk) 23:38, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Wikimedia UK Newsletter - March 2009 Issue
Summary: With everything in place for the chapter, other than charity status, we have organised the first Annual General Meeting - your chance to influence the chapter's future and stand for the board. The bid to hold Wikimania 2010 in Oxford is coming on nicely. We also bring you the usual details of meet-ups and news coverage, and details of how to propose a project, and possibly get funding.

In this month's newsletter:
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 * 5) Meet-ups
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Delievered by SoxBot II (talk) at 16:59, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Happy Tango's Day!

 * Wow, thank you! --Tango (talk) 10:50, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Peer review of Euclidean algorithm?
Hi Tango,

I'm tempted to bring Euclidean algorithm to FAC and trust my luck there, but I hope I'm wise enough to ask for a peer review first. (There's probably a good reason why so few mathematical articles are Featured!) The EA article received a detailed review from Jakob.scholbach a few weeks ago; but I'm loath to trouble him again. On the volunteer list, I noticed that you review articles in pure mathematics; would you be willing to review this one? Thank you, Proteins (talk) 17:58, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't have time for a detailed review, but I'll give it a quick look. --Tango (talk) 18:48, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the review; I'll try to take your advice. Good luck with your dissertation! Proteins (talk) 11:11, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

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Probability

 * Your terminology was fine, I don't know what Michael is complaining about. Perhaps he missed the fact that (x-1)/x=1-1/x, which makes it clear that one is the complement of the other? --Tango (talk) 11:09, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

You're mistaken, Tango. If the sum of the two probabilities is 1, that does not mean the events are complements of each other. The probability of getting a "1" when rolling a die is 1/6. The probability of getting a number no more than 5 is 5/6. The sum of those two is 1. But they are not complements. And the poster used the word "event" where he probably meant "trial". Where I used the word "event" above, speaking of whether two events are complementary, I used the word "event" correctly. Michael Hardy (talk) 01:57, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * True, I made the implicit assumption that the outcomes were mutually exclusive. I should have been explicit about that, but I think it is clear that that is what the OP intended. Yes, the OP's terminology wasn't entirely standard, but it was pretty easy to understand what they were asking. As long as language is understandable, it is essentially correct, since that is its purpose. --Tango (talk) 06:23, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * And that's the problem: It was not clear what he was saying; I had to guess. Michael Hardy (talk) 14:45, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Either that, or I made the implicit assumption that the list of outcomes was exhaustive. Either is a reasonable interpretation of the question and each implies the other. --Tango (talk) 06:24, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Wikimedia UK Newsletter - April 2009 Issue
Summary: Wikimedia UK has held it's first AGM! The AGM included numerous speakers talking about a wide range of topics, ranging from collaboration with the BBC to reaching out around the world with Wikipedia on a DVD! A number of official actions were also taken - including the passing of six Resolutions, the election of the new seven-person Board, and the first new Board meeting! Also this month, an overview of the Chapters meeting in Berlin, of which two of our number were present, and details of the upcoming meetups this month!

In this month's newsletter:
 * 1) Annual General Meeting
 * 2) New Board
 * 3) Chapters Meeting
 * 4) Meet-ups

''Wikimedia UK is the operating name of Wiki UK Limited. Wiki UK Limited is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. The Registered Office is at 23 Cartwright Way, Nottingham, NG9 1RL.'' —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skenmy (talk • contribs) 19:20, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Edited your reply on Reference_desk/Science
Just a courtesy note - I corrected your reply to stop the rest of the page being rendered incorrectly - you used 2 instead of 2. Exxolon (talk) 21:49, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Medical questions, teeth and the refdesk
Re Reference_desk/Science. Tango, let's keep the meta-discussion off the refdesk, and move it to the talk page (for the N+1'st time) if necessary, or to Steve's talk page as I did. --NorwegianBluetalk 20:47, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Addendum: Your answer was somewhat bitey towards the OP. Here's the OP's post, after minor editing by me:
 * I have a very weak teeth. I have visited many dentists, but they weren't a lot of help. Now, after so many advances in other fields, I find it weird that no-one has found a preventive treatment for dental cavities. I think it should be pretty simple. Some kind of mouth wash that will produce a thin film on the surface of the tooth, so it won't be in contact with food left, so no cavity will form. Really, I don't think it should be that hard. We've built space ships, rockets, submarines, airplanes - I think it should be a pretty easy task. I say this, because I visit the dentist so often, and it's frightening every time.
 * Neither the OP nor I are native speakers of English, so the English in my edited version might not be perfect, but the meaning is pretty clear to me. The contentious issue is of course whether the OP is asking for medical advice. Per Kainaw's criterion, the user is clearly not asking for a diagnosis or a prognosis. However, there may be an implicit question about treatment advice in there. I tried to answer whether caries can be prevented by applying substances to the tooth surface, and edited my post to make it clear that I was speaking in general terms, and not attempting to address the needs of the OP. The problem, of course, is that the OP is giving a lot of personal health information, along with a question that can be answered objectively. --NorwegianBluetalk 22:39, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I would never criticise someone for poor English that is due to not being a native speaker. I criticised the OP because it was clear they hadn't made the effort to write correctly. I've spent more time than I care to admit online interacting with people with varying levels of English ability and I can easily tell what is bad English skills, what is bad general language skills and what is laziness. In this case, it was clearly laziness. I consider it disrespectful to ask people for help and not make the effort to make your question easy to understand. All they needed to do was proof read it. It doesn't require any additional skill or ability, just a couple of minutes of extra time. As for the question itself, it is not an implicit request for treatment advice, it is an explicit one. I can't see any way that question can be interpreted as anything other than a request for medical advice. Of course you can answer objectively, you always can, but we have to avoid doing that because you can't be sure that your objective response applies to the OP and the OP will most likely interpret it as advice intended for them. --Tango (talk) 00:25, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

When discrimination is unacceptable
Dear Tango, I hope we're on the same page here, or am I hopelessly "prejudiced" when certain topics crop up (with discouraging frequency) on the RDs? Not that the OP's query was trollish in any way, but I'm wondering at the variance between your response and mine. Since you're such a stalwart and have helped so much in the past, I'm just asking for a tune-up here. -- Cheers, Deborahjay (talk) 20:18, 11 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't see anything wrong with your reply. I interpreted the question from a moral point of view and decided that the ref desk isn't the place to make moral judgements, you interpreted from a legal point of view and discussed that. I think our responses complement each other quite well. I don't see anything about your response that is prejudiced for or against any group. In fact, I'm not entirely sure what you're asking me - I fail to any problem for me to help with! --Tango (talk) 22:37, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

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Wikimedia UK Newsletter - May 2009 Issue
Summary: Whilst our application to HMRC has not yet been successful, we're after your views on the proposed New Chapters' Agreement, your suggestions for a Wikimedia UK conference next year and your ideas for initiatives to start! We also bring you updates on Wikipedia Loves Art, Other Chapters' Activities, Meet-ups and Press coverage.

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 * 1) HMRC Application Status
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Delivered by Mike Peel (talk) 20:22, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

a question
hi a question regarding your article on math. if you can supply definitons before the proof it isgood, because otherwise its is really hard to understand by what definitions you go by. thank u


 * You're right, it is always good to be explicit about definitions and conventions. Is there a specific article that you think is unclear? --Tango (talk) 21:18, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Low Salt
Hi Tango: I didn't want to put this on the Ref Desk as it will likely lead off on a tangent where people start defending their homelands. I have lived in the States in the past, though not for over 30 years now. Yes, its mid- and low-level restaurant food tends to be salty, though its best ones rank right up there with world standards. I have eaten in a lot of countries, and even though I love the island of Puerto Rico, its food is almost inedible because of the amount of salt. Even its best restaurants use salt like a separate ingredient, and not like a condiment. I had to order meals that used no pre-made sauces or stocks, which is harder than you might think when even the water the rice is boiled in is salt laden, and hint that any salt would send me into immediate anaphalactic shock, before I could get edible food in the restaurants of San Juan. // BL \\ (talk) 16:58, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's the amount of salt they put on their chips I really can't get - there is salt on the table, why put any on the chips before you serve them? Give your customers the choice, there is nothing to lose... --Tango (talk) 17:03, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You are preaching to the choir here, but then I avoid the fast-food giants at all times, whether at home or abroad, for this reason principally. // BL \\ (talk) 17:11, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I avoid them because the food is just generally terrible. In the US even quite good restaurants pre-salt chips, though. --Tango (talk) 17:20, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

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Hot Damn your fast
How do you get Ref Desk answers so fast? What do you do for your day job? I'm a new editor and the Ref Desk seems a good place for me to edit, but you always seem to beat me to it (I don't mind, by the way). You're seriously good at it, and I thought you should know. Prokhorovka (talk) 20:16, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you, that's great to hear! At the moment, I don't have a day job - I'm a student that has just finished his exams, so I have nothing to do but sit in front of my computer hitting refresh! Don't worry about answering a question that has already been answered - often a second answer can add something to the first, or add more references, or suggest more further reading (either Wikipedia articles or other sources). Good luck! --Tango (talk) 20:20, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

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Can you clarify this?
Hi Tango, can you explain, in ref to this, what exactly is meaningless? The OP asked about instances where twins are born at a "vastly different time or even date" and gave as an example where the second twin is "born 2 days later". I spent a half hour doing research to find sources discussing exactly that.

You then dismiss my report of those studies as being "meaningless statistics" because "the sample has clearly been chosen to be made up of cases with a large delay" - but the OP was specifically asking about cases with a large delay, isn't the whole point of the RefDesk to answer the actual question that was asked? And I even went on to describe the rarity of these cases and found more statistics on the overall situation with multiple deliveries. What more would be needed to meet your standards?

Also, median is always a meaningful statistic - it means the point at which half the samples are above, and half below, the quoted number. It's valid regardless of sample size. But maybe you can further explain - in your own experience of submitting work to peer-reviewed journals, don't the expert reviewers tell you about the meaningless statistics before the work gets published? Franamax (talk) 09:05, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The median of the sample is meaningful when you use it to help you interpret the rest of the data, that's why it was in the paper. It's not meaningful on its own. Imagine there was a question about how many tall people there are in the world and I found a paper about tall people and quoted the statistic that the minimum height in the sample was 6ft. That wouldn't be helpful at all, it would just mean that the people doing the study chose "over 6ft" to be their definition of "tall". The median of a sample only tells you something about the population if the sample was chosen to be representative. If the sample was chosen to specifically be from a particularly subset of the population, as in this case, it only tells you about the selection method, not the population. --Tango (talk) 11:43, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Maths of Science?
 Sp in ni ng  Spark  15:53, 6 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Did you have a point? --Tango (talk) 15:59, 6 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Not really, I just thought it was amusing.  Sp in ni ng  Spark  16:07, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, in mathematics' defence: If you combine "mathematics", "math" and "maths" you get a much fairer fight! --Tango (talk) 18:26, 6 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Nah doesn't make any difference! Also, Science v. Everything else just about comes home for Science but Mathematics v. Everything else? And one more thing, before you click on the next link, would you care to have a guess at who comes out on top in Guessing v. Mathematics?  Sp in ni  ng  Spark  19:03, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * They don't combine like that - that's all sites which use all three words (at least, I assume it is, it's lower than any of them individually). I would guess that "guessing" would beat "mathematics", it is an every day word. And I would be wrong, well who would have thought it! --Tango (talk) 19:07, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh right, I should have used OR in the search string. Science still wins.  Sp in ni ng  Spark  19:14, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "Science" includes so many things, though, try this one. --Tango (talk) 20:02, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, compare like with like ranks. Physics with calculus, or biology with algebra or similar.  Sp in ni  ng  Spark  20:08, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * My university has a mathematics department and it has a physics department. They are the same rank. --Tango (talk) 20:14, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Orbital resonance
I still totally don't get what is number like Pluto-Neptune 3:2 or whatever. Formation and evolution of the solar system said Pluto's oribt will be unknown in 10-20 million years from now. They also said Europa, Io is tidally lock from Jupiter. is Titan tidally lock from Saturn? Does that mean Europa is moving further away from Jupiter? Is Titan moving away from Saturn?--69.226.38.106 (talk) 00:06, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Why are you asking me? Please ask questions on the reference desk so everyone can answer. I'm not sure about the various tidally locked moons, I'd have to look them up, but when people say Pluto and Neptune are in a 3:2 resonance they mean that Pluto orbits around the sun twice in exactly the time Neptune orbits around the sun three times. That is, a year of Pluto is 1.5 times the length of a year on Neptune. --Tango (talk) 00:10, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * It is because I post it on Reference desk/Science nobody answer it, I post on bottom of section on June 10. Do I have to start a new section of question on diff day, or I should post similar questions on older section?--69.226.38.106 (talk) 00:50, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * As long as the question is still visible on the main ref desk page (rather than just the archives), it should be seen. It may take a day or two, though. --Tango (talk) 17:35, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

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Purity comes to a sticky end
Sorry, Tango: I shouldn't make spelling jokes. They are apt to backfire, and I can hardly hold up myself as errorless. I can understand why your spell checker would accept both "glutinous" and "gluttonous"; it's just that they mean different things. I've never seen the greedy one ("gluttonous") spelled the same way as the sticky one ("glutinous"), not even when being gluttonous over glutinous rice. No matter; it's all among friends. :-) // BL \\ (talk) 04:19, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I was all ready to concede defeat and only checked the OED on the off-chance and was rather surprised that it had that alternative spelling. I've never seen it before either, it was simply a mistake on my part - I guess I got lucky! --Tango (talk) 14:51, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

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Wikimedia UK Newsletter - June 2009 Issue
Summary: This month, we have details on our response to HMRC, updates on our Initiatives and Membership drives, as well as our regular sections on Press Coverage, Upcoming Meetups, and activities from the other WMF Chapters around the globe. We're also pleased to announce that we now have a Paypal account! We also want your input on the future of this newsletter - get involved! We are hoping to get the July issue out very early in July in order to fit with our new distribution schedule, so don't be surprised to see two newsletters in quick succession.

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Here you go
I see you contribute very helpfully on almost every question on almost all reference desks... Keep up the good work... So here you go...

I do wonder how you can know so much about every possible subject... Here's something interesting...Rkr1991 (talk) 14:05, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks! The trick isn't knowing lots, it's knowing where to look things up. --Tango (talk) 14:27, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * By the by, Ive been here only for a couple of months, Can I feel free to ask for any guidance, advice or help ? Rkr1991 (talk) 14:32, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course, bring it on! --Tango (talk) 14:39, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Ok, here goes...

Q1 : I want to give a font to my user name, something like SpinningSpark's. How do i do it ?

Q2 : I wanted to add my name to the Reference Desk Regulars list but I think I goofed up somewhere, resulting my name coming on separately... How to correct it ? Rkr1991 (talk) 10:59, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * A1: Click on "My Preferences" at the top right of the screen, then on the first tab is a "Signature" section. Check (ie. put a tick in) the "Raw Signature" box and then you can put whatever wikitext you like as your signature. It is best to keep it fairly short, both as wikitext and when it actually displays on a page. It should also link to at least one of your user page and user talk page, preferably both (you have to enter the wikitext for the links yourself, they aren't done automatically if you have "raw signature" checked). And make sure it doesn't look too annoying or detract attention away from what you saying which is, of course, far more important than your signature! Good luck!
 * A2: To include something in a numbered list you have to start the line with a hash (#). Also, that list is alphabetical, so you should put your name in the appropriate place (it isn't ordered automatically). Let me know if you have any problems! --Tango (talk) 17:00, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Great ! Thanks ! One more question. I believe equations are inserted using TEX, or LaTEX. Is it an easy to use, interactive kind of software, or do you have to first read about it before you use it ? Rkr1991 (talk) 04:20, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * LaTeX is rather a complicated language but Wikipedia only uses a very small subset of it, so it's easy enough to learn. Help:Displaying a formula should contain everything you need to know. --Tango (talk) 17:23, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. Now something about the way you write tells me that you're a she. Am I right ?Rkr1991 (talk) 04:42, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I'm male. My name is Thomas Dalton, I'm a 22 year old white British man with a pony tail. I've met several people in real life that I originally met here - they're never a bit like you expect them to be from how they write! --Tango (talk) 15:05, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry if I offended you... Don't take it too seriously... Rkr1991 (talk) 04:47, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No, you didn't. I'm rather intrigued about what in my writing style you perceive as feminine, but certainly not offended. --Tango (talk) 04:49, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks!

 * You're welcome! --Tango (talk) 16:54, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Heavily
I'd like to try Huggle, if possible, and to do that i need the rollback flag. Texcarson (talk) 00:53, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I think you'll need to wait a few more months, although it's possible you'll be able to find an admin that is convinced you have changed your ways. --Tango (talk) 00:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

David S. Rohde / Wikipedia controversy
Regarding "There is plenty of controversy within the Wikipedia community, but I haven't seen any out in the real world ...", see the article Was Wikipedia correct to censor news of David Rohde's capture?- csmonitor.com -- Seth Finkelstein (talk) 01:08, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok, you've got me, I don't read The Christian Science Monitor! So, it's been mentioned in an involved publication, I'd want a little more than that before giving it much space in an article. --Tango (talk) 01:28, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * This article collects several relevant links: Wikipedia blackout to protect kidnapped reporter raises questions about censorship -- Seth Finkelstein (talk) 01:35, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * See also Wales Denies Censoring Wikipedia over Journalist Rohde's Kidnapping -- Seth Finkelstein (talk) 13:15, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Hyperbolic geometry
Thanks much for your help; it turns out that there was some mention of triangles in the Escher section. However, your comments helped me look more confidently through a confusing page, and I appreciate the intro bit, so thanks! Do you know if you could compose a simple drawn image to illustrate a less-than-180-degree-triangle on the article, so it's simpler than having to go to the Escher website? Nyttend (talk) 04:21, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * There is one, on the picture of a saddle near the top. --Tango (talk) 04:29, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hyperbolic triangle.svg This one. --Tango (talk) 04:30, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Again, didn't realise what it was (forgot to read the caption), so I didn't consider it. Doesn't help that all these triangles appear to be curves (in the generic sense of the word, not the official), so I keep forgetting that they really are triangles instead of rounded shapes with angles.  Nyttend (talk) 04:32, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it is very difficult to think about these things without thinking about them embedded in Euclidean space, which only serves to confused you. You have to try and think about everything from just the perspective of the hyperbolic space, not how the hyperbolic space is constructed from Euclidean space. --Tango (talk) 04:38, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

WMF logo
Surprise, run into you in two rather different places and contexts :-) Thanks for advice.  I'd considered contacting Mike Godwin, but I thought best not to go directly to him; thus the Village Pump post.  Nyttend (talk) 12:06, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * It's a small wiki! You could email Mike directly (if it were me, I would, but I know Mike quite well) or email the OTRS list and it will get forwarded to Mike (which is the official route). --Tango (talk) 13:57, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

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thanks!

 * You're welcome! --Tango (talk) 01:57, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for replying!! Can you throw more light on this issue? I would be indebted! sumal (talk) 05:25, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks
I am grateful for your answer. Can I expect some more detail than what you have given me now? sumal (talk) 05:23, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * More people have answered now. As it says at the top of the page, you sometimes need to wait several days for a full answer to form. --Tango (talk) 16:03, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikimedia UK Newsletter - July 2009 Issue
Summary: This month, we bring exciting news about our Wikimedia Foundation Grant, as well as news on our chapter Initiatives (get involved!) and our opt-out of Phorm. We also talk about Business Cards, a recent interview of our Secretary for use in university courses and Wikimania 2013 - which seems a long way off! We also include our regular features of chapter activities from around the globe, press coverage, and meetups!

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WP:NODRAMA reminder
Thanks for signing up for the Great Wikipedia Dramaout. Wikipedia stands to benefit from the improvements in the article space as a result of this campaign. This is a double reminder. First, the campaign begins on July 18, 2009 at 00:00 (UTC). Second, please remember to log any articles you have worked on during the campaign at The Great Wikipedia Dramaout/Log. Thanks again for your participation! --Jayron32. talk . say no to drama 22:06, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Notification
Yes, that was intended as notification of the case. I honestly don't know how people post to a party and to the RfAR page at the exact same moment; so after some deliberation, I posted to the party first (Jimbo, without a diff) and to my own Request second (with a diff of my post to Jimbo). The other way round would have worked, too. Is there a problem? Bishonen | talk 00:08, 21 July 2009 (UTC).
 * It seemed to me that Jimbo interpreted your message as meaning you would do so some time in the near future, but not immediately, which could have led him to miss the case - that would have been a problem. My message should prevent that possibility, so we can forget about it now. I think adding the proof of notification to the RFAR as a separate edit is probably the best approach in future. You are right though, there isn't a perfect solution. I will be avoiding the case under the dramaout is over (I don't think you can get more drama than an ArbCom case about Jimbo!), so I will I say goodbye and may the best (wo)man win! --Tango (talk) 00:32, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Just realised that non-PC cliché could be misinterpreted, so PC-ified! --Tango (talk) 01:25, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

St. George's church, Trotton
Do you have any objections to me moving the deleted edits of that article back to your sandbox? I just hate deleting edits for no good reason, and the edits will look strange in your deleted contributions if they're still in the article namespace. Graham 87 02:42, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No object, go right ahead. Thanks for cleaning up after my carelessness! --Tango (talk) 05:11, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, All done. Graham 87 06:32, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for making WP:NODRAMA a success!
Thank you again for your support of the Great Wikipedia Dramaout. Preliminary statistics indicate that 129 new articles were created, 203 other articles were improved, and 183 images were uploaded. Additionally, 41 articles were nominated for DYK, of which at least 2 have already been promoted. There are currently also 8 articles up for GA status and 3 up for FA/FL status. Though the campaign is technically over, please continue to update the log page at WP:NODRAMA/L with any articles which you worked during the campaign, and also to note any that receive commendation, such as DYK, GA or FA status. You may find the following links helpful in nominating your work:


 * T:TDYK for Did You Know nominations
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 * WP:FPC for Featured Picture nominations

Again, thank you for making this event a success! --Jayron32. talk . say no to drama 02:24, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Are you an admin?
You closed the "Line Counterproof" talk thread, so I assume that you are once again an admin. Is that true? Assuming that you are then I would like you to read the thread and to talk to COVIZAPIBETEFOKY. You will clearly see that his comments were unjust, abusinve, and that they were not relevent to the discussion at hand. I would like to see a copy of any comments made by you to COVIZAPIBETEFOKY. If you are not an admin the please tell me because I would like the matter taken up by an admin. Δεκλαν Δαφισ  (talk)  14:58, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I'm not an admin. There is no need to be - anyone can close a thread, it just involves adding a couple of templates. Sure, anyone can revert it as well, but I hope they won't. Feel free to go to WP:AN/I, but I expect they will just say you are both as bad as each other and refuse to do anything - that's what I would have done when I was an admin. --Tango (talk) 16:09, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * And that's one of the reasons you're not. Thanks. Δεκλαν Δαφισ   (talk)  16:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually I'm not because I was too ready to take action, not too reluctant. Please get your facts right. --Tango (talk) 16:35, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. Most enlightening. Thank you :o) Δεκλαν Δαφισ   (talk)  17:28, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

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DYK for St. George's church, Trotton
Hi Tango, nice article, I've replied to your query on my talk page. Best regards, Simon Burchell (talk) 21:13, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Meetup
A meetup is taking place in Manchester if you are interested.  Majorly  talk  18:47, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Having finished uni I'm back down south now, so no way I can get to Manchester. Have fun without me! --Tango (talk) 21:12, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

RD
Stuck in the sense of unsure of the truth of the answer --70.169.186.78 (talk) 22:06, 31 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Please answer on the Ref Desk, or you will confuse people! Hopefully somebody will be able to say if you've got it right, I'm afraid I avoided stats as much as possible at uni! --Tango (talk) 23:16, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

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Really?

 * "Last time I checked, the United States Supreme Court did not have jurisdiction over the entire world. I propose banning Americans from the Ref Desks, their arrogance is getting on my nerves. (Yes, I'm generalising, I consider the few Americans that are aware of the existence of the rest of the world to be acceptable losses.) --Tango (talk) 19:56, 7 August 2009 (UTC)"

Way to derail the topic. That was uncalled for, you could've just reminded him to take into account other countries' laws. Plus, his IP's in Florida. ;) 24.6.46.177 (talk) 02:59, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I could have, yes, although I had already asked the OP what country he was talking about so a reminder shouldn't have been necessary. If it were the first time an American had forgotten about the rest of the world I wouldn't have minded, but it happens almost every other question and is really annoying. --Tango (talk) 03:19, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

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Wikimedia UK Newsletter - August 2009 Issue
Summary: Our Initiatives are starting to be developed - please get involved! In this newsletter, we also announce the results and prizes for Wikipedia Loves Art, and we bring you the latest on our Charity status application, in addition to our regular features on Other Chapters' Activities, recent Press Coverage and recent and upcoming Meet-ups.

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Shalom
Hey there -- thanx for your ongoing, good-natured responses.  DRosenbach  ( Talk 13:10, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! --Tango (talk) 13:41, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

How rude!
Tango, I'm quite insulted that you have called me a liar. To have a PhD does not mean that one is an expert in all fields of mathematics. I have tried to explain the gaps in my knowledge in the hope of being helped; not being branded a liar. Please contact the admin Salix_alba about my PhD. We shared the same PhD supervisor. He has even been present during one of my meetings. (Although he passed his PhD a long time before I did). Just read my reply on the Reference Desk. Dr Dec ( Talk )    18:58, 25 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The integers are a fundamental part of mathematics. You don't need to be an expert on number theory to know what they are. --Tango (talk) 19:06, 25 August 2009 (UTC)


 * You don't need to be an expert, but you at least need to be half-arsed.  Dr Dec  ( Talk )    19:50, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

I was going to work with Farid Tari. I have even given a talk at the Durham geometry seminar. We applied to the EPSRC but one of the referees decided that he didn't like the project even though, believe it or not, we were going to try and establish some affine results that had been publish, in their Euclidean form, in Annals! (By a Japanese collegue that I worked with in Sapporo, Saji-san) Feel free to ask him if he knows me. Dr Dec ( Talk )    19:50, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Pity it didn't work out, Farid is a nice guy. --Tango (talk) 19:55, 25 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, he is. And I'm very sad that we didn't get to work together. Especially given the amount of work we put into that EPSRC proposal. Now, Tango, can we move on from this? Just because I'm not well read in number theory doesn't mean I don't have a PhD in singularity theory. I was open and honest. At the risk of looking silly I was asking questions about things I wasn't sure about. The way you called my honesty into question wasn't very nice. It will most probably make me think twice about being open and honest, and think twice about asking questions when I have them. I have always found the truth in the old saying: "A man that asks a question feels stupid for a minute, while the man that never asks a question remains stupid for a lifetime." We should try to foster an atmosphere of openess and honesty as much as we can. There are many simple facts that you yourself might struggle with. For example, how do we prove that the composition of functions is assosiative? How do we prove that addition, in an abstract sense, is commutative? These are all very simple questions to certain people. (Myself not included. My second year group theory lecturer told us to take these as given and to advance from there. My questioning the integers and their bases was questioning that same "accept and move on" idea, but with the integers and not the group axioms.)  Dr Dec  ( Talk )    22:54, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I suggest you brush up on how decimal notation works, though, it is used in pretty much all of mathematics and you really should know it! I would have given you the benefit of the doubt from the start had you shown a better attitude. In my experience, people that make a big deal about being better educated than others (as you have done) tend to be less intelligent than they want people to think they are and overcompensate. If you show a little more respect for other people they won't be so quick to assume the worst in future. As for your examples - the associativity of function composition is one of those things that seems really obvious and I can't even work out what there is to prove. I hate obvious things! In this case, I think it may actually be trivial - think of functions as machines and composition as attaching the input of one to the output of another and it is obvious that how you group them won't matter. I could be missing something though, I often do with this kind of question. I think I could prove the commutativity of addition from the Peano axioms if I tried, though - I think the hardest part there is getting your head around the axioms. They are easy once you understand them, but really weird at first. --Tango (talk) 23:13, 26 August 2009 (UTC) [[Image:DoNotFeedTroll.svg|thumb|right|Never feed the trolls.]]

This is not the kind of response I had hoped for. You won't find a single post on the reference desk that is anything less than polite or civil. You seem to be habouring a grudge (maybe from my comments on the 0.999... page over a year ago), well people move on, people's ideas and points of view change. Maybe it's time you did, and yours did? I've been reading your user_talk/edit history, and you were almost banned for personal attacks, and only a few months ago. I've tried to offer you an olive branch, but you want to carry on with some kind of, well, I don't know, some kind of un-niceness. I suggest that we no longer communicate directly. Dr Dec ( Talk )    23:50, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Therein lies the problem. You really don't understand what it is you have said that is unacceptable. Until you do, we are never going to make any progress here. I am speaking of comments like this, earlier this month. As for me being almost banned a few months ago, you are sorely mistaken. I believe I was given a short block which was soon undone by the blocking admin when he realised he had made a mistake. That is all. I don't even recall anyone calling for me to be banned, there certainly wasn't any serious consideration given to the idea. --Tango (talk) 00:30, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

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personal RFC on sneeky edit
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Planetary_habitability&diff=311665773&oldid=311665338

I'm curious to know, do you consider this kind of edit sneeky and/or not encyclopedic?? GabrielVelasquez (talk) 15:07, 3 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I haven't studied the dispute or the users in detail, but based on that edit and the surrounding ones and applying WP:AGF it looks like an innocent mistake to me. You made two changes at once and he accidently undid both. I see on the talk page that you have already been told you need to assume good faith more - it would appear they were right. --Tango (talk) 15:54, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

You were right
It seems that you were right that editing others comments is frowned upon. I want you to understand that I was simply tyring to help. The OP posed a rather technical question and I thought that more links would make the question more accessable. It seems that my attempts to help over stepped the mark. Thank you for pointing that out. I wish you all the best. Dr Dec ( Talk )    23:00, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought you meant well, that's why I said "please"! The links were helpful, but in future it would be better to write your own comment saying "See these pages: ...". The biggest problem with adding links to the OP's question is that it makes it look like they knew about all those articles (and had presumably read them) and will result in other people giving unhelpful replies based on that false assumption. --Tango (talk) 00:01, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Reference desk award

 * Thank you! --Tango (talk) 21:03, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Planet Colo(u)r Guy
I've replied (a few days late) to your WT:RD thread on Planet Colour Guy. Without restating my whole post, it's probably time to discuss whether he should continue to skirt his account's block. Your input on the matter is appreciated. &mdash; Lomn 18:30, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Four tildes
After a crazy weekend, I can use a good little laugh. That's the first time I can recall anyone actually writing the words "Four tildes" for their signature. It's a cousin to the ancient joke about signing a contract, and where it says "Your Name", you write "Your Name". Oh, but wait, could it be his actual user ID is "Four tildes"? :) →Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 06:26, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Years ago I had a chat with someone here about the idea of creating the user ID "Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia" just so I could get a standard welcome message that would start, "Hello, Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia, and welcome to Wikipedia!" Small things amuse us. →Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 06:33, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
 * There are advantages to answering questions online rather than in person - you don't have to keep a straight face! --Tango (talk) 16:00, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

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Wikimedia UK Newsletter - September 2009 Issue
Summary: This month, our Initiatives Director explains our Initiatives, we update you on our Membership (including some new benefits for members!), keep you informed on our Charity Status application, and update you with our regular sections regarding Other Chapters' Activities, Press Coverage, and UK Meet-ups!

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The Wikipedia Signpost: 28 September 2009

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Sorry!
Hi Tango. I bet I'm the last person you would have wanted a message from. I know that I've not been very nice to you in the past. I was new to Wikipedia and was treating it like some kind of sexed-up chat room. I've realised that things aren't like that and I've started to get the bigger picture. Anyway, I just wanted to say sorry for all the silly, hurtful, and possibly offensive things that I may have said to you. I wish you all the best, and I hope that we can work together profitably in the future. Dr Dec ( Talk )    20:41, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I've already noticed your recent edits being much more productive - thank you for that and thank you for the apology, I accept it and am confident we'll be able to work together effectively from now on. --Tango (talk) 21:50, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Archiving
Hiya Tango, I hope you're well. I was just wondering, have you ever thought about archiving your talk page? I tried to access it the other day from my mobile and it cost me like a million quid and then crashed my phone! There are some pretty cool templates that you could use. I have cut, pasted and then edited some templates to get a nice archive structure. Give me a shout if you need any help. Dr Dec ( Talk )    18:14, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I keep meaning to... I have archived it occasionally, but really do need to register with one of those archiving bots to do it for me... Sorry about your phone bill! --Tango (talk) 18:21, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, that's the stuff from 2007 and 2008 archived. I'll worry about the rest later! --Tango (talk) 18:30, 5 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Take a look at my archive structure (I borrowed it from Misza13). If you want then I could created the same archiving structure in your own userspace. I'd need to created a few pages in the user:tango/ domain, but I wouldn't mind. If you don't fancy it then, no problem. I just thought I'd offer to help. (It took me a good 3 hours to work out what to do with all the cut and pastes)  Dr Dec  ( Talk )    19:09, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but for now I'm happy with my makeshift system. --Tango (talk) 20:23, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm glad you said that because, upon reflection, it was a lot of hard work :o) <font face="Kristen ITC"><font color="#FF6600"> Dr Dec  <font color="#009999">(Talk) <font color="#000099"> <font color="#FF6600">  22:44, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

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Probability question
In regard to this post of mine. The more I read the OP: "I have 8 letters that I can put into 12 slots with repeats. what is the probability that one sequence of 12 selected at random has all eight letters in it?" the less I understand it. This is almost certainly due to my weak and fragile mind. Take the first part of the OP: "I have 8 letters that I can put into 12 slots with repeats." Well, if you have 8 letters that you can put into 12 letterboxes then you need to make eight actions, i.e. put each of the eight letters into one of 12 letterboxes, maybe putting more than one letter into the same letterbox. What does it mean to say "What is the probability that one sequence of 12 selected at random has all 8 letters in it?" This second part seems to mean that you choose 12 letterboxes at random and you look to see if any of them have all eight letters in it. So here's what I think we're being asked: '''You post your eight letters into your 12 letterboxes, maybe putting more than one letter in each letterbox, and then you randomly point to letterboxes 12 times, possibly pointing to the same letterbox more than once. What is the probability that one of the letterboxes that you have pointed at had all of the letters in it?!''' I give up; my head's spinning. Dr Dec (Talk)  21:55, 8 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The way I interpret it is as a weird game of scrabble. There are 8 letters in the alphabet and the bag is full of multiple copies of each (equal numbers). Your rack can hold 12 scrabble tiles, so you pull out 12 tiles from the bag and put them on the rack. What is the chance that your rack holds at least 1 of each letter? It is the letters that are repeated, not the slots - perhaps that is the cause of your confusion? --Tango (talk) 00:03, 9 October 2009 (UTC)


 * It seems my confusion was to think of letters and slots to mean pieces of mail and letterboxes. I think you've got the right idea with the scrabble analogy. Dr Dec  (Talk)  21:37, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you...
...for coming to my defense, which is more than I deserve sometimes. :) I have to admit I was startled by the complaint. I'm a midwesterner, and that's just the way we talk here. :) →Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 21:52, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * You're welcome, but to be honest it had nothing to do with you - I would have done the same even if you had said something unreasonable. "He started it" is not an excuse for the kind of comment that user (whoever it was) made. --Tango (talk) 22:00, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * His personal attack was out of line, and his closing of the section was not his place to do. →Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 22:03, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * So, who is the "user who has been harassing BB for quite some time now"? hydnjo (talk) 23:55, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The CU has no idea, unfortunately... seems like a clever one - changing IPs over a large range and even switching browsers. --Tango (talk) 23:58, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, the anonymous coward then. I misunderstood and thought it was a known logged-in user who logged-out for the drive-by. hydnjo (talk) 00:10, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm reasonably certain who it is, but WP:DENY precludes too much speculation on the matter. Nor does it much matter. We just whack the moles as they come. →Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 00:13, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Try emailing a CU (perhaps User:J.delanoy who investigated my report) with what information you do have - if they could compare the activities of that user and the IPs they might find sufficient evidence to take action even if they couldn't by just looking at the activities of the IPs. --Tango (talk) 00:20, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I just did. I'll see what J.delanoy has to say. But be prepared for my not wanting to say it out load, not due to "fear" but solely because of the WP:DENY principle that I've been trying to do better at following. But if you were to watch me (i.e. if you're sufficiently bored), he turns up now and then. →Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 00:36, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
 * He's just emailed me about your email (I'm sure he's emailed you too). I will respect his decision not to post the results on site, so won't comment on it. --Tango (talk) 00:53, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, he did, and my suspicion was correct. →Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 01:04, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Me too (or three)! Yeah, I guess I'm sufficiently bored so lets see what he's willing to reveal (if he even knows). hydnjo (talk) 00:56, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
 * How dare you correct your spelling mistakes and edit conflict with me pointing them out to you?! >:( --Tango (talk) 01:25, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
 * As I'm not a principle here J.d has been understandably less forthcoming with my request. Any of youse guys who want to satisfy my curiosity please feel free to do so privately or even sergeantly ;)  hydnjo (talk) 01:23, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I've asked the checkuser about it offline. I'm just curious why you're curious. :) →Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 01:28, 11 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I hate drive bys 'specially by experienced users who log-off to do their cowardly crap and I've had some previous experience with "trustworthy" users. It's just so unwiki that it stings. Maybe I'm the one who should back off here but it bites me. hydnjo (talk) 01:43, 11 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I should point out that I don't literally know who this guy is, just his effects. Typically what he does, as a drive-by, is to latch onto someone else's good-faith (though sometimes misguided) criticism and try to add to it. As he did in this case. →Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 01:49, 11 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I guess I shouldn't make his problem with life my problem ;) hydnjo (talk) 01:57, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Ref: 68.244.107.246
I am sorry, I only meant an idiot in the context of "V I". I saw your comments at SPI. There's no need to track me down, we don't need another Law-Arb-fest right now. Besides, once you figure it out, you'd be more understanding (I hope). If it will put your mind at ease, think: "anagram". I'll stop the DB's if it gives you that much grief. 68.245.14.176 (talk) 02:11, 11 October 2009 (UTC)


 * If you intend to stop this crap and even apologize, the other appropriate place to do so would be on BB's talk. I hope you do that. hydnjo (talk) 02:39, 11 October 2009 (UTC)


 * We know who you are - a CU has now confirmed it. We've discussed it and decided the best plan is just to ignore you, so goodbye. --Tango (talk) 02:50, 11 October 2009 (UTC)


 * As a long ago victim I prickle when I see it happening to another editor. The sneaky, undercover, anonymous hit-and-run behavior is abhorrent and has no legitimate place on WP. If you have disagreement, argument or dislike with another editor, please feel free to express yourself but with the continuity and context that a logged-in user provides - without that you're nothing but a D,B.er. Buh-bye. hydnjo (talk) 03:00, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Any objection...
...to my reverting that character's trolling comments about drunkenness and such from the ref desk page? →Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:48, 11 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Mercy! I can't browse the site this evening for all these orange banners! I think this question needs to go on the ref desk talk page... while removing personal attacks is generally a good idea, I would refrain from doing so if you are the target - it creates unnecessary drama. --Tango (talk) 03:53, 11 October 2009 (UTC)


 * How about:
 * Baseball Bugs: unfounded accusation redacted  hydnjo (talk) 14:47, 11 October 2009 (UTC).


 * Nah, just skip it. WP:DENY. →Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 14:49, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

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Your RfA withdrawal
I wanted to comment here for the record, just to make sure there was no issue with my closing your RfA, having also been an opposer. I obviously closed the RfA due to your request. I've removed the nomination from the main RfA page (WP:RFA), but anyone watching your RfA subpage will still see your closing remarks.

If you wished for someone uninvolved to handle the close, please let me know, or just revert the closure. I'll have absolutely no problem with that.

For what it's worth, sorry your attempt didn't succeed.

All the best - Equazcion (talk) 08:43, 14 October 2009 (UTC)


 * As I said in my closing remarks, people should be able to do what is best for the project, not follow policy to the letter. There is absolutely nothing to gain by waiting for somebody that didn't vote to close that RFA, so of course you should be free to do it. Thank you. --Tango (talk) 08:48, 14 October 2009 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. :) Equazcion (talk) 08:51, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry that went the way it did, I'm not sure we as a community were really ready to appeal an Arbcom decision from before many of us had become active. Or that some of us realised that was what we had to consider. I'm guessing that your statement "I think one of the things we can do is to have no reasonable expectations of admins." is missing an un? It also didn't help you that MONGO may also have changed, my only encounter with him was very positive.  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  21:23, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I think MONGO has improved and I take some of the credit for that - I think giving out big blocks does make people take notice and change their ways (even if the block doesn't stand). That sentence is clearly wrong, but I'm not sure what I meant it to say... Perhaps it should have said "more reasonable" not "no reasonable"? Who knows! Hopefully people will get the gist of it! Incidentally, the ArbCom decision was only a little over a year ago - you have been around longer than that... --Tango (talk) 08:46, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh I've been editing for two and a half years now, but I didn't venture much into wikispace until about a year ago, and I'm sure I wasn't watching the Arbcom pages then. Anyway when are you next coming to a London meetup?  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  16:05, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably not until I get a job. I can't really afford to travel at the moment. Chances are good I'll end up working in London, so I may well go every month after that. --Tango (talk) 08:57, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

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RD Med Revert
Was this diff an intentional revert or just an edit conflict? I had just removed the question below as medical advice, but your edit promptly restored it. I'm not planning an edit-war here, I'm just curious if this was a mediawiki bug or if you intentionally restored that question. Nimur (talk) 15:15, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It was just an edit conflict - that's the second time that's happened to me recently... something is wrong with the conflict resolution code... --Tango (talk) 15:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll investigate if it's a known bug, and try to file a mediawiki bug report. Off-hand, were you editing the full page or just the particular subsection?   Nimur (talk) 15:42, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Just that section. Here is a short discussion about the last time it happened. I ignored it that time - we get the odd hiccup from time to time, but if it is happening repeatedly it needs fixing. --Tango (talk) 15:50, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

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October 2009

 * First, please read WP:DTTR. Second, please be more specific. Could you provide a diff of an edit of mine you consider inappropriate? --Tango (talk) 19:51, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * ""Or your local high street. --Tango (talk) 2:45 pm, Today (UTC−5)"" --Accdude92 (talk to me!) (sign) 19:55, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Ones local high street is a good place to find out the prices of goods sold there. That was not intended to be a humorous comment. --Tango (talk) 19:57, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * He did the same thing to me, because I expressed incredulity that he could not find prices on commonly availible clothes. If he types "What is the price of X" in google, he'll get 100 online stores willing to sell it.  I don't see where either you, Tango, or I, did anything here that mandated any response of this type.  Accdude92, if this is how you intend to respond to people, you should reevaluate your interpersonal communications methods.  -- Jayron  32  20:02, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok guys, look i made a mistake, and I am sorry. I still have much to learn about what is ok on wikipedia, and what is not. This was one of those things that I did not know was bad. Once again I am sorry. I have since removed the template.Accdude92 (talk to me!) (sign) 20:05, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That's ok. Just remember to assume good faith in future. --Tango (talk) 20:08, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Congratulations :)

 * Thanks! It's always nice to be appreciated. --Tango (talk) 02:45, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

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Reference Desk archiving interval
There's a discussion running on the RD talk page about decreasing the archiving and transclusion thresholds to reduce the page size, perhaps to as few as four days. I don't care one way or the other, but I'd like to make sure any consensus includes input from some long-time regulars, so I'm dropping this note on the talk pages of a few that pop to mind. (I hope no one feels this is improper canvassing.) —Steve Summit (talk) 01:19, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

St George's, Trotton
Hi Tango. I've uploaded some of my own photos of St George's church to Commons, on the offchance they might help you with your article. Best regards, Simon Burchell (talk) 00:25, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Cheers. I'll take a look. Are you local? --Tango (talk) 00:39, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Fairly, I'm just across the border in Surrey... Simon Burchell (talk) 00:45, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

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Human Growth
You asked someone (Jayron32?) on the Ref Desk about growth and other age-related factors. I don't know if he will respond, but I do have some OR for you (which is why this isn't on the page). My husband, who is now in his late 60s, reached his full height of 6' 1" before his 14th birthday. (He knows this because we still have the "growth stick" the family used, with the dates and the annual measurements.) He reached puberty at just about the same time. He was also the tallest student in his year for two years, when others began to catch up and then to pass him. Bielle (talk) 00:11, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Reference desk
Do Rf desk always give the right answers, or they call lie sometimes. Because sometimes they give implausible answers and base on my personal observance, it's totally wrong from what the desk said.--209.129.85.4 (talk) 21:07, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I would be surprised if anyone intentionally lies, but we certainly make mistakes. If you think something seems unlikely, please say so on the desk and we can try and find reliable sources to tell us who is right. --Tango (talk) 21:46, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry to conversation-jack but I have noticed in general in popular news sources (science reviews and also others) there always seem to be a surprising number of errors on subjects on which I actually have a good knowledge base. I infer there is much more incorrect but plausible stuff out there than we realise but of course I still believe the stuff I don't know about because it is plausible :) . --BozMo talk 07:42, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Very true. Science journalists rarely know any science and make the most simple mistakes and right ridiculous articles. It is usually best to find something written by the scientists themselves - press releases, papers, etc. --Tango (talk) 07:45, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks BTW
For, not seen that discussion, which is what I came here for. --BozMo talk 07:42, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! --Tango (talk) 07:48, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

St. George's church, Trotton
Hi Tango. I've just seen this at GA candidates. There's a lot more that can be added to the article from the array of books published about Sussex churches (or buildings in general): I suggest Nairn and Pevsner's The Buildings of England: Sussex, Wales's West Sussex Village Book, Coppin's 101 Medieval Churches of West Sussex and Vigar's Exploring Sussex Churches. Let me know if you would like any help with this (I have immediate access to all these sources). I've just started a big article but might have some time this week. Cheers, <font face="Helvetica"><font color="#00BFFF">Hassocks <font color="#228B22">5489 (tickets please!) 18:36, 15 November 2009 (UTC)


 * That's for that - that is a very useful list! Any help is, of course, appreciated. I'll see if any of those books are in any local libraries (they ought to be). --Tango (talk) 19:31, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

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Unicode
Thanks for the link to all of the unicode characters; I appreciate it! Dr Dec (Talk)   23:22, 30 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm a RefDesker - finding links for people is what I do! :) --Tango (talk) 23:53, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

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Archive search box
Here is an archive search box for your talk page. You can modify it and place it according to your preferences.
 * -- Wavelength (talk) 20:16, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

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The Great Wikipedia Dramaout
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