User talk:Tanner-Christopher/Archives/2008/January-May

Archive of talk pages from Chef Tanner for January - May 2008

Palestinian cookery book
I hate to seem bothersome, but I wanted to know if you received the book on Palestinian cookery from Christiane Dabdoub Nasser. I know you just came back but just can't wait for a history section and potential elaboration on the aspects of the cuisine. I read the summary on amazon.com and I think the book is perfect for the article.

By the way how was your trip, hope you had a happy new years. Cheers! --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:47, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Ok I'll just delay my planned GA nomination for next week and will really concentrate on the Bethlehem article. By the way, if you have the book and took a glance at it, could you tell me if it even mentions any history. All I need is that assurance and I'll be satisfied. Cheers! --Al Ameer son (talk) 00:21, 12 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi there, I'm glad to see you're back (at least I think). I just wanted to inform you that I improved the Palestinian cuisine article tremendously and I am going to renominate it for GA status sometime next week (just to make sure that everything is perfect). I also request of you to take a quick glance at it to see if anything is missing, I really would appreciate it. Btw, outstanding job on the cuisine of the Thirteen colonies! --Al Ameer son (talk) 01:21, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Le guide culinaire (1903 Auguste Escoffier book) cover.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Le guide culinaire (1903 Auguste Escoffier book) cover.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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 * FUR placed on page, DFUR template removed. - Jeremy (Jerem43 (talk) 17:11, 9 January 2008 (UTC))

WikiProject Germany Invitation
--Zeitgespenst (talk) 20:48, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Cuisine of Hawaii
Hi, I hate to bother you, but could you weigh in on the structure of List of Hawaiian dishes, and make recommendations on how to incorporate this page into Cuisine of Hawaii using your preferred linking style? Just trying to get the ball rolling again. Thanks, and I look forward to your input. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 13:05, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Good luck with the competition! &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 04:32, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Velcome bach her Chev
Vi hav beeen looking vor you...

Your reappearanz haz been most opportune...

--- Jeremy (talk) 05:50, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Not bad, just humming along. Was in NYC about two weeks ago, getting some pizza from Lombardi's. not much else. Nothing like an hundred eighty mile pizza run.

--- Jeremy (talk) 08:52, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:TimRyan.jpg
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Wine Portal
You should be very proud for getting Wine Portal to FA. COngrats, good job. -- Char leen mer ced  Talk  05:35, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Hola Chris!
Hors d'œuvre has some editorial disputes that you as the de facto leader of the Food and Drink Wikiproject should take a look at. First is a pluralization issue and the second is a move proposal. You opinion counts, so vote early and often!

--- Jeremy (talk) 06:04, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Firing squad is too good for ya...
Death by cheap wine and British Cuisine...

--- Jeremy (talk) 18:04, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

CCC
A friendly note... using your professional titles (Chef... CCC) when you sign comments on Wikipedia makes you seem pretentious, and I doubt it improves your credibility with other editors. What's more, the titles "chef" and "CCC" are professional, not academic, titles, and thus not particularly relevant to encyclopedic content. Similarly, an M.B.A. (as opposed to a D.B.A. or Ph.D. in business economics) would not be especially relevent to encyclopedia contributions. (For the record, I have a Ph.D., but it is in computer science, so also not particularly relevant to gastronomic history, though it does indicate training in scholarly work.) -- Dr. Stavros Michael Macrakis, Ph.D. (Harvard) --Macrakis (talk) 16:01, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Your call, of course. But if you look around, I think you'll see it's very rare for people to sign with their credentials (whatever they are), even if they are listed on their user pages.  Hell, I've gotten razzed for including my PhD on my user page (not my sig).... Personally, I think credentials are very helpful hints as to the credibility of contributors, but.... By the way, what do you plan to get your PhD in at KSU?
 * PS Say hi to my friend Corky White at BU for me if you see her. --Macrakis (talk) 18:37, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Interesting about your PhD. You seem really interested in history etc. so why are you looking at hospitality administration rather than food history? Not as lucrative, of course, but if that's your passion...?
 * I am also interested in writing a text book addressing the education of food and culture...

Interesting. A book for food professionals or for lay people?
 * ...slightly lacking in its overall academic nature.

Understand. Again, though, if you're so academically inclined, perhaps you should be in an academic history or anthropology program, not a professional program. There are a lot of interesting relationships between general cultural history -- notably nationalism and the creation (oops, we're supposed to call it "discovery" :-) ) of national and regional traditions especially in the 20th century. Also lots of things having to do with social status. And there is a lot of primary research to be done, which is what a degree in history would help with. Too much food history in the past has been people copying from older sources uncritically....
 * Academia in the liberal arts portion of food studies still needs some work as I am sure you have seen from many of the books used for references such as a number of references in the Davidson Oxford text, and the deplorable History of Food texts I see all the time.

Absolutely. The Oxford group was really just starting the process of creating an academic discipline. I was at one of its meetings in Cambridge (US) 20 years ago or so and it was really interesting to see the mix of amateurs and academics.
 * ...Too many try to dumb down their topics or the author is a self-proclaimed expert because they went on vacation somewhere.

The most common problems I see in these books are uncritical use of sources; ignorance of historical/cultural context (assuming for example that "Lebanon" or "Italy" or "India" were useful categories at various times in the past -- or even the present in the case of India); romantic notions about continuity (looking for "roots"); ignorance of pre-modern economics; ignorance of the differential transmission of sources; confusing folk beliefs or invented traditions with real history; well, you get the idea. I always choke when I see some modern X'ian cookbook (X = whatever you want) with a picture of some ancient archeological artifact which "proves" the antiquity of the well-known X dish.... Oh well, enough ranting, back to work. --Macrakis (talk) 20:23, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Tradition etc.
You might be interested in my comment at Talk:Carbonara. --Macrakis (talk) 05:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your note on my talk page. I think "Chef Tanner" is perfect.
 * About Merry "Corky" White, she's a well-known food scholar at B.U. and teaches the popular course "Food, Culture, and Society". --Macrakis (talk) 03:38, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * She is tenured faculty in the B.U. Faculty of Arts and Sciences, so probably doesn't teach Metropolitan College courses. I'd think it would be worthwhile given your serious interest in food matters to cross-register for courses in the FAS. But of course if you're not in Boston any more.... --Macrakis (talk) 15:05, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned in relation to Mortons
I fixed the issue, overzealous editor. --- Jeremy (talk) 07:54, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Bertolinis logo.PNG)
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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Trevi logo.jpg)
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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Mortons logo.JPG)
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Cuisine
Hi Christopher,

You responded to my question on the WikiProject Food and drink talk page and stated that the concensus has been to use the title "Cuisine of Country" for some countries and "Demonym Cuisine" for others. What criteria are used to determine which title is used for a given country?

Also, you posted a message on my talk page regarding my removal of the "Cuisine" navbox from multiple articles. My reasoning behind this was that a navbox should only exist on articles to which the navbox links. The "Cuisine" navbox does not link to any "cuisine by country" articles, therefore it should not be included on any of those articles. I base this on the my reading of the guidelines outlined in Navigational templates. If you disagree, please let me know so we can discuss further.

Good to be working with you,

Neelix (talk) 16:01, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Hors_d'oeuvre
Would you please join the discussion at Talk:Hors_d'œuvre - Netrat_msk (talk) 23:57, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:TimRyan.jpg
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Culinary Institute of America
You seem to have removed some material sourced by reliable sources from articles without discussion or consensus., as you did at Culinary Institute of America. DGG (talk) 23:37, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The source provided is a educational trade magazine oriented to teachers. The Magazine appears to have a POV issue, and may not comply with Wikipedia standards. The source is also brief summary of the article, and requires a paid subscription to read. No other source verifying the data can be found with a simple search. I believe that this warning is inappropriate and and should be removed. --Jeremy ( Blah blah... ) 07:49, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * reworded above, to clarify that this is not a formal warning and discussed on my talk page. The Chronicle of Higher Education is the major reliable source in that field; it has been consistently considered not just reliable but definitive for events in the academic world, and used for really contentious BLPs, including matters much more serious than those which occur here. There is full precedent that subscription sources are acceptable;DGG (talk) 11:34, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I've emailed you with a full copy of the source.DGG (talk) 15:42, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured portal removal candidates/Portal:Food
Are you planning to update the portal anytime soon? Otherwise I will demote it from featured status. OhanaUnitedTalk page 05:40, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * My apologies for not realizing you're a college instructor. I have high respects toward professors. So by all means, take your time and let me know when you're ready. OhanaUnitedTalk page 03:34, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Hummus
Hello, Chef Tanner... in the Hummus article, there is the claim that hummus is very ancient -- perhaps even ancient Egyptian -- all based on various Web sources which seem to me completely unreliable, and which themselves offer no evidence for their claims. This sounds like the typical sort of unsupported claim made in cookbooks and so on. I have tried to remove or at least bracket these claims as unsubstantiated, but another editor insists on retaining them and in fact recently added another. Though I have tried to reason with her on the Talk page about WP's Verifiability and Reliable Source guidelines, she doesn't respond, instead claiming that her references are just fine. I have also found an interesting source that seems considerably more reliable than any of this, but she for some reason doesn't like it.... Could you help resolve this? Thanks, --Macrakis (talk) 02:32, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Hey, where are you?
Hi, Christopher, it's been a while. I firmly believe that you will be back to Korean cuisine article to form its structure. The article is in mess, really. Although when you were active, I disagree with your point, now I admit my ignorance and agree with your concern on the article's status. There is no historical or cuisine term of Korean cuisine addressed but is like more a collage of representative dishes (only known dishes in English speaking world) Well, I've tried to implement the article but.....the subject is huge and my knowledge and writing ability are limited, so I just created some article related to sub categories in the cuisine, but you know when building a house, its basic frame is too important. I guess you've been very busy for your study/work/other matters, but I remember you bought big cookbook on Korean cuisine and your promise to contribute to it. So when can you be back? I hope I will see you soon. Regards.--Appletrees (talk) 15:41, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the answer, and congratulation for the job position. :) Your hard works are getting rewarded. I look forward your returns soon. Regards.--Appletrees (talk) 00:28, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Hummus
Thanks for your reply. I spent a few hours at the Schlesinger library and have found some useful sources, but probably won't write them up until this weekend. I hope that the people over at Hummus who think it's obvious that hummus "must be" very ancient will take these sources seriously. I still don't get why they would think that hummus bi tahini is that ancient. I also don't get why they insist on including information on the history of the chickpea, the lemon, sesame, etc. etc. in the hummus article. --Macrakis (talk) 13:26, 28 May 2008 (UTC)