User talk:Tannin/030301

Hello Tannin, welcome to Wikipedia. Nice to have another Australian around. Um, since you're a social science type person (quite rare around here), you might want to consider doing something about the awful "culture of Australia" information, both on the Australia article and the currently non-existent culture of Australia page. -- Tim


 * From Talk:Tim: "...an unpolished and unplanned Culture of Australia article is posted. I'm not sure if you will like it though." Great! Yes, I do like it, but it's not like you need my approval. You just post and see what happens :) -- Tim

Tannin, have a look at my edits to the Whitlam page. Your additions were good, but not everybody liked his social achievements, and the left tends to ignore his economic mismanagement. What I've written could use some polishing. --Robert Merkel 05:28 Dec 17, 2002 (UTC)

I added a lot of info to the Lion page, and moved the top part into a new article about Napier. See what you think!

I was shocked to find out that you accused me of propagandizing and vandalizing articles. I was merely in the early stages of making the articles more explanative and neutralizing the point of view. Read the articles now. They’re by far much more encyclopedic and even-handed. Go to my user page. Look at my contributions. You won’t find virulent pro-Communist propaganda. In fact, if you read the Deng article, which I largely rewrote, you’d see that I’m not an apologist for Mao’s failed policies. But then again, I don’t site the “Black Book” either. 172

Thanks for additions, copyedits, spelling corrections (!) to Culture of New Zealand and feedback in Talk:Culture of New Zealand. Changes made seem appropriate and do not change the meaning and intent of the article significantly. It was a first draft of things that came to mind when I saw no article existed. Oh, and being a New Zealander probably means I am even less qualified than visiting Australians to comment on the culture - (logs in eyes, rose tinted glasses and similar proverbs apply.)-- kiwiinapanic 12:18 Dec 30, 2002 (UTC)

--- Tannin:

I saw your comments in the talk section.

You’re wrong for the following reasons about UK history article:

1.)	The “Marxist jargon” refers to theory. The article is not written from any theoretical point of view. 2.)	Don’t discount the intelligence of Wikipedia readers either. They’ll understand the references to theory. 3.)	The article is about the United Kingdom’s history. Hence, it will focus predominantly on this particular time frame and the empire in particular. They’re separate articles about the histories of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Wales. 4.)	The Industrial Revolution and the history of the empire are inseparable. 5.)    I will not let anyone delete large sections of the article.

172

Thank you so much for coming to my defense on the talk page. 172

some kind of table would be nice at Far East Air Force Vera Cruz

I saw that you reverted vandalism from some anonymous 172... user. That wasn't me. After all, you were the only person who came to my defense.

172

Can you have a look Genocide Ericd

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Tannin:

Please help me. Vera Cruz is not improving the section that I started on New Imperialism. Please see my latest addition on the talk page.

172

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I truly appreciate your suggestions. I will strive to improve my communication on the grounds you listed.

Though I might not have articulated it well, I agree with you on the Congo Free State. I’ve long considered Leopold’s rule a form of neo-mercantilism. 172

Please form an opinion on Part II of New Imperialism Vera Cruz

Tannin, I very much like your suggested first two paragraphs for the New Imperialism article, in the talk page, and suggest you cut and paste them into the article. By the way, I have modified the intro to the article on Guns, germs and steel and have revamped (somewhat) the "critique" section. I do not think you and I will ever agree about the book, but we should be able to agree on what is clearly written and useful added content to the article; I hope you will look at at some time, Slrubenstein

There is no need to be rude. Vera Cruz

Very nice additions and talk-page observations on strategic bombing, I'd been hoping someone else would join in. Have you looked at the Strategic bombing survey and its stubby offsspring? Ortolan88 PS - Also good on New Imperialism.

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Of course the  article has gone down hill, there is an edit war going on! I touched the page once(to remove irony qoutes from around genocide). What kind of mind thinks in those terms? 'Irony quotes'. He can see the error of his ways( he doesn't do it, anymore.) It's a suckers game to edit that page. Imho, I have some credibility because I haven't posted; I've subracted mark-up.Some people have lost credibility from their posts. Some people from their talk. Some from their archiving.Some from theirlogical fallacies. Some for their gutteral language. More than one for their prejudice. Its not the first edit war I've sat through. They don't understandreplies to critics. I'm a Canadain: why don't you go and read my posts in talk.64.229.14.142 It's all day breakfast all winter long.

Social conflict theory might not be marxism but marxism is social conflict theory. They believe that war is a result of economic competition. Vera Cruz

"Never wrestle with a pig. You both get muddy, and the pig LOVES IT."

hmm... Vera Cruz

I didn't mean to call you rude on Asimov talk-I get you and Tarquin confused. Vera Cruz

If feel to make some copyedit on Citroën 2CV, there's a nice photo ;-) Ericd

Tannin:

Vera Cruz is back on New Imperialism and seems very ambitious in a devious sort of way. I offered to stop revising that article permanently if he stops permanently. That would leave it to you, Ortolan88, and Sublerstenin. Try to get him to agree to that. First though, we need to stop him from deleting Ortolan88's paragraph explaining what New Imperialism is. 172

Jimbo has already expressed disapproval that she circumvented the ban; perhaps you should take it to the list. So far as I can tell, no one considers her worth the trouble but only users with developer access can ban a logged-in contributor. Best, Koyaanis Qatsi
 * Hang around awhile and you'll get a sense of how much trouble in dealing with certain people is more trouble than it's worth. ;-)  The situation didn't seem especially muddled to me, but I'm not exactly a connoisseur of subtlety.  I find it hard to imagine all of our "contributors" are contributing in good faith; and I'm increasingly of the opinion that our purpose is to make an encyclopedia, not coddle people with attention deficit disorders or other unresolved issues.  And, to be fair, I'm taking a harsher view on it these days than many others.  :-)  Best,  and a belated welcome.  Koyaanis Qatsi

Hi Tannin, many people here (US) are concerned about the fires in Australia -- I hope you and your friend are alright. Good luck, Slrubenstein

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I’ll be following the news in Victoria closely. I wish you luck as well.

172


 * Thankyou SLR and 172. I do appreciate your wishes. At this stage we have no especial cause for rational alarm: we live about 500 or 600 kilometres away from the big fires at Canberra, and about half that distance from the other big ones in the Australian Alps, but the bush is tinder dry this year, and the temperature ominous. Victorians all over the state woke this morning to the unmistakable smell of burning Eucalyptus. I'm 200 miles or more away from the nearest major fire but I can smell it clearly as I type, here inside my house, strong enough to make my sinuses itch. When I step outside, the air is thick with haze. The last time I remember it being like this was the terrible Ash Wednesday fires in, um, 1973, I think. Thus far, the damage in Victoria is limited to vast tracts of alpine country: New South Wales and the ACT have had a very bad year indeed. I really, really hope that no more harm comes their way.


 * My friend just wants to take some valuables away for safekeeping, just in case. I think that is wise. Everyone here in Australia appreciates the thoughts that are with us, and I want to make special mention of the alpine firefighting experts from New Zealand that flew in to help yesterday. Tannin

I edited the Napier Lion article. I moved the part at the top into a new article on the company itself, and added some new details I found on the net. When I get home I'll add some more details from by engine books.

Got anything on the Dagger? Not much out there...

Hi Tannin, I know you've been following the work on Gene and I just made a more reflective comment on the talk page -- and would welcome your opinion/input Slrubenstein

Tannin: Military history is a secondary interest. But in my reading on airship history I've gotten a pretty good feel for WWI raids. So I'll pop in at some point and flesh out that section. Regards. Blimpguy 13:18 Jan 25, 2003 (UTC)

Hi, Karen Johnson suggests on the potato chips page that in Australia and New Zealand they are called chips. Can you confirm (or deny) this? I thought you Aussies called 'em crisps like us Poms. Mintguy


 * Hello. Actually, now I'm confused about this, too. I've just read this (and probably annoyed everyone else in the lab by laughing too loudly), but it seems to be about chips (the long, thin, vaguely cuboid things), rather than about crisps (the round, flat things). Are you really saying that you call both types of food "chips" in Australia, and if so, doesn't it cause terrible confusion...? Not that I'm working on the articles or anything, just trying to increase my linguistic knowledge.. :) -- Oliver P. 18:13 Feb 4, 2003 (UTC)


 * Yup! We use the same word for both things, Oliver. Most of the time anyway. If it's not clear from the context, the long thin hot ones are just plain "chips" while the round flat pre-cooked things in the packet are "potato chips" or sometimes "potato crisps". Glad you liked my little story. (Sure wish you could edit posts there - there are two mistakes in the last para that really bug me.) Tannin

Hi Tannin and welcome. I appreciate your contributions. However, you need to go back and fix the U-2 Dragon Lady redirect; it should not have been redirected to "Lockheed U-2". The naming convention in wiki for military aircraft is not to refer to the manufacter of the aircraft in the title but the title of the aircraft itself. Take a look back at List of military aircraft of the United States of America and you will see. Thanks. B 16:01 Feb 4, 2003 (UTC)

Tannin, you make some good points. The current wiki naming is more diverse than I suggested and has moved around a bit. I've puzzled over the difference in wiki naming of modern aircraft versus (usually) older aircraft and the U-2 alone is as you say a bit puzzling itself. In my experience, U-2 is used commonly, U-2 Dragon Lady and Lockheed U-2 both from time to time. After some thought, I'd support a naming convention for aircraft that uses a full title: Lockheed U-2S Dragon Lady, Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress, Republic P-47 Thunderbolt, Panavia Tornado, etc. B 22:52 Feb 4, 2003 (UTC)

Tannin, excellent job for explicating the issues with naming conventions on aircraft: (Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(aircraft)). I'd lean towards a convention that generally includes "everything" except where it makes good sense to make an exception. I'm not sure how I feel about say oddities like: "Lockheed AC-130" versus "Lockheed AC-130 Spectre/Spooky"; OR "Convair 880" versus "Convair 880 Skylark/Golden Arrow"; OR "Curtis P-40" rather than "Curtis P-40 Tomahawk/Kittyhawk/Warhawk". I lean towards the everything approach because it would work as a catch all whether someone is unfamiliar or not with less common references like "Dragon Lady", "Fighting Falcon", "Flogger" or "Fulcrum". I think the everything approach is superior to the what comes natural rule which is wishy washy and amounts to guessing and idiosyncratic preference. B 23:53 Feb 5, 2003 (UTC)

Hullo--accurate redirects like Nimrod maritime patrol aircraft should not be deleted. Redirects to redirects should be corrected, not deleted. The redirects provide useful information as to alternate naming. --The Cunctator

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Tannin, the contributions & 'hide minor edits' bug should now be fixed. Thanks for the bug report! --Brion 19:02 Feb 4, 2003 (UTC)

Hi Tannin, If you have a chunk of free time on your hands, could you look at the Semitism page, and its talk page (including an archived page)? You would have to look at the first version of the article, and go through a lot of talk. But I don't want the debate on the "talk" page to turn into Jews vs. non-Jews, and I respect your judgment, if you can make sense out of the debate and why there is a debate Slrubenstein --

rv (and lookout Ram-Man - here I come


 * LOL It's lonely at the top - do join us. :) --mav


 * (Tannin chuckles)

I am glad you approve of the move to Transculturation. I guess it is a clumsy term, but no moreso than ethnoconvergence in my opinion and you really will find lots of google-hits. Maybe you can put some time into the article, too -- I will try in the next week or so. By the way, I responded to a point I think you may have made in the talk section of race and intelligence on intelligence and genetics; I am hoping our disagreement is more semantic than scientific, Slrubenstein

Can you copyedit Race and intelligence ? Thanks. Ericd 01:52 Feb 9, 2003 (UTC)

Hi Tannin, Could you please have a word with Daeron have get him to stop changing the page on Australia to make it say Australia is a republic? You and I (and the rest of the planet) know it isn't. Whether it should be is another matter. I'm getting fed up having to correct his mistake (if that is what it is) again and again and again! JTD 06:48 Feb 11, 2003 (UTC)

Thanks mate. I'm just amused at being accused at being an Australian monarchist. A month ago I was being accused of being an out and out republican on the Republic Advisory Committee page. (Heads of state are my big expert area: I'm in the middle of writing a book about them. I could quote the Australian constitution in my sleep at this stage! (sleep. Jeez. I was meant to do that 5 hours ago!!!) :-) JTD 07:04 Feb 11, 2003 (UTC)

Dameon, alias 211.28.96.8, is now doctoring the page on Constitutional Monarchy. I have had to do TWO reverts so far today. (That's after SEVEN reverts - you, me and Mintguy) yesterday on the Australia page.) I've left a note on Mav's page telling him what Dameon is up to. JTD 21:22 Feb 11, 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for all your help with detecting and reverting vandalism. Someone's got to stop them, and I just don't have the time any more. It also helps not to "feed the trolls", so if you could restrain yourself from describing them as a moron that would deprive them of evil nutrients! --Uncle Ed 13:51 Feb 12, 2003 (UTC)

If you have a chance can you look at Colonialism: shock or meeting of cultures? I deleted the article, as Vicki Rosenzewig I think did once before, and she moved it to talk and I explained why I deleted it again after someone reverted her change. I think there is another Lir or Sv out there and I'd like to nip it in the bud -- I hope you'll have time to add your two cents. Slrubenstein

Hi Tannin. I've done some bits on Fieldfare, Redwing, White's thrush and Siberian thrush. Do the last two occur/winter in your region? If so could you adjust range. Also could you look at Old World thrushes. I'd be interested in your views of the family and generic taxonomy if any of these occur in Oz. I'm starting a bit on Chats, but I'm aware of taking a different taxonomic approach. Thanks jimfbleak


 * I've never heard of Bassian Thrush, so no problem there. Certainly never recorded in Europe. The Dutch, I'm afraid, tend to split everything, but the move to put rails and ducks at the start of the list has already been accepted by the BOU. I've got an old book that puts White's Thrush as having Australasia as part of its (winter??) distribution, so that's the only reason for my query.jimfbleak

Tannin, thanks for the bit about the DCSD. I guess that since it will be turning 6 years old this summer, it is probably not an ad hoc body convened solely to discredit Lomborg. BTW, it's interesting that Lomborg does scientific work for the Danish government and that a body created by that government gave Lomborg a poor report card in science :-) --Uncle Ed 19:26 Feb 19, 2003 (UTC)

Hi! from Adrian. Sorry, I've not photographed a DC-8. I do have a nice Iberia MD-88 landing at Heathrow but that's a DC9 development. I'm not going back to Heathrow for photography for several months until the terrorist alert has died down (or intensified!) and it's sunnier (for higher shutter speeds).Arpingstone 09:27 Feb 22, 2003 (UTC) - Hey Tannin: I guess that drugs could be like medicine, marijuana, cocaine, everything that is used to get high, in this case without including alcohol because we could write another page about famous people with alcohol problem.

If you know someone who has been left out in the drug list, remember, we are more than delighted to have others cooperate with our pages! :)

Oh on another topic, judging by your talk with Arpingstone about airplanes, you seem to enjoy planes. So do I. Matter of factly, I have 69 plane models in my collection, including one of a Boeing 727 of Iberia

Thank you for reading my article and God bless you!!

Sincerely yours, Antonio Bi! Bi! Bi! Martin

I would let it go, Tannin, as long as he/she/it behaves, except that Jimbo has threatened Adam with legal action if he ever returns to the Wikipedia. -- Zoe

Hey Tannin: Whats up? Well, so youre from Australia ah? I have a friend in Adelaide. Check out the page on Adelaide International Airport. I absolutely love my friend from Australia, you Australians are some of the best people Ive ever known, along with Puerto Ricans and Mexicans.

I had been waiting, thirstying for a Qantas model for my plane collection until finally, after 12 years of collecting desk-top commercial models, I got a 747 of them last year, and better yet, I got it in the traditional colors. I dont know, but those models they sell nowadays with special livery planes really dont attract me much, Id rather get a desktop model with the airline's regular livery instead.

My thirst for a Qantas model quenched, now Im thirstying for a model of Mexicana and one of Iraqi Airways. Luckily I found an Australian company that sells them but I'll have to ask them if they ship to here. LOL we will see.

So, tell me, how did you get interested in aviation? Do you enjoy visiting the airport frequently?

I used to go to Luis Munoz Marin International Airport every weekend when I was little but now that Im far from there, (and not little) I dont enjoy going as much, but whenever someone comes into town or something I just go and stand there and admire those mighty airliners, man.

I went to a small town with a little airport, but with one commercial jet landing each day, and I could see the planes landing from my hotel room and I was like 'I could live here'..LOL

Well Im gonna go, just wanted to talk about planes. Hope to hear from you soon! God bless!!

Sincerely yours, Antonio My Brain went on That Parachute! Martin

Wish an Australian luck at cricket?? Humph. Well OK... just this once, Good luck ;) (pro'ly a bit late by now anyway) -- sannse

Hi Tannin, I looked at the Australian Republican page. It reads very well. I have made a few changes, which I would like you to work over.
 * I have added headings and sub-headings;
 * I have broken the opening paragraph in two, with the second paragraph expanding and contextualing Australia's complex constitution ( I know there is a page on this, but I think a paragraph here is useful too)
 * I added in 'The uncommitted' to the list of groups taking views, because every democracy has uncommitted voters who become the key swing group.
 * I mentioned in pointers the alternatives re appointment and election. (I don't have all the details at hand. You may be able to expand that, specificially mentioning the formula proposed by the Constitutional Convention.
 * I separated the 'Yes' and 'No' voters into two small sub-paragraphs with headings.
 * I NPOVed a few terms - I might well agree with them, but it helps to say such and such is 'perceived' rather than saying it is an undisputed fact, even if we do believe it is so.
 * I have added in some extra external links.

Let me know what you think overall. I'll luck at the other page in a few minutes. Take care, JTD 22:01 Feb 27, 2003 (UTC)


 * -) I'm amused on Wiki at how some people are convinced I'm a monarchist and some are convinced I am a republican. In fact I am neither: I have studied the workings of both monarchy and republics and have come to the conclusion that both are the best option in different contexts. I've worked for both republican and monarchist movements in Aussie and for some of the Aussie media, so I am absolutely neutral on the issue - it is made more complex by knowing some British Royals on the one hand, and having had a relationship with someone on the republican side in Aussie on the other. (Though Daeron is convinced I'm a far right nutty monarchist!!! (.) JTD 22:20 Feb 27, 2003 (UTC)

Hey Tannin,


 * (1) could you (anyone!) break Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (dates and numbers) into smaller pages (archive some, for example). It's exceeded my browser's size limitations. I ask you because i think we might agree about some current controversies and i'd like to contribute.


 * (2) ditto for this page (your talk page).

Arthur 04:29 Mar 1, 2003 (UTC)