User talk:Tariqabjotu/Archive One

Eid ul Adha
Salam -- why is Dec 31 a possible date for Eid ul adha? My apologies for the ignorance on this matter, but I'm simply confused.


 * Because the Islamic calendar is a lunar calendar, it has only approx. 354 days instead of 365. That means Eid moves up eleven days every Islamic year. Therefore, since this Eid ul-Adha is January 10, next Eid ul-Adha will occur approx. 354 days later, on December 31. They are two different Eid ul-Adhas in two different Islamic years (1426 AH and 1427 AH, respectively). The Eid ul-Adha for 1428 AH will occur December 20, 2007. joturner 03:09, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Green Day
Green Day is not plural in the same way "the group" and "the band" aren't plural

Please note that in British English, group references (such as companies, or bands) are plural. Thus "Microsoft are announcing a new version of Windows very soon" is grammatically correct. The Wikipedia doesn't require one or the other but an informal truce has developed around articles' subject matter (for instance, most of the London bombing article should use British English). In this case, an American band was being interviewed in Germany, so I think using American English makes sense. --Dhartung | Talk 8 July 2005 06:01 (UTC)

Thanks for the correction; I didn't know that. -- joturner 8 July 2005 19:00 (UTC)


 * Actually, it's not quite as straightforward as Dhartung would have you believe. Microsoft, in British English, is singular. So is Green Day unless, as was the case in this instance, the sentence is construed to imply a reference to "the members of" Green Day. The sentence has been subsequently corrected so it says : "the members of Green day are being interviewed back stage", which is now clear and correct. To say, for example, "Green Day are touring in November", in any other circumstances, while it might be idiomatic, is technically incorrect grammar. You were right in the first place. ElectricRay 11:59, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Ramadan
I'll be helping you on Ramadan when I have the time. I greatly appreciate having someone there who isn't as totally pissed off at Striver as I am. It's hard to edit without giving way to anger. I'll try to follow your lead . Zora 00:21, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Muslim
I'm glad you like the change. I very much appreciate it when you make suggestions like that. I'm so upset at Striver at this point that sometimes I fail to see opportunities to compromise. Thanks for being clear-headed. Zora 21:26, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Reply
I know it may get frustrating and I liked your try to eliminate confusion, but most of the time it's good to keep it simple. :) Keep up the good work. -- a.n.o.n.y.m   t 02:08, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi!
I replied back :) --Striver 02:24, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

More replies :) --Striver 03:00, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I appreciate you warnings. I have also replied. :) --Striver 04:12, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

NBA All-Star Weekend
Thanks for helping with the edit -- I just took it on because it was a WP request. And, happy birthday. :) Shigpit 01:07, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Good articles
You delisted Geology of the Capitol Reef area and listed Wave-particle duality? Have you seen the size difference between the two? One is certainly much more complete than the other and a much better article. The presense of 'too many red links' is an invalid thing to object to even in the FAC process. Why should it matter here? And the article you promoted did not have a single image while the one you delisted has two (I'll be adding many more once I get my Linux drive back up). How many featured articles are you the main author of? I'm up to 15, including almost all 'geology of...' FAs. --mav 19:47, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Islam
As-Salam Alaykum brother. Congratulations on converting to Islam. I too embraced Islam 4 years ago when I was 16 years old. Best thing to remember is that God wants us all to be on the middle path, not an extremist, not incredibly liberal, moderation is the key in faith and in everything else a well. If you need anything drop me a message anytime. Mustaqbal 10:46, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Conversion to Islam
Asalamu Alykum, Congratulations on your conversion and mashallah you seem like a salafi brother. I am 19, male, going to UNM and as you can tell, also a muslim. Although I had the advantage of being raised Muslim I am very impressed by your coversion. Good Job on the Halal meat thanksgiving but, you might already now, there are lots of fatwas saying that the food here is still of the people of the book and the main debate ppl were worried about was the way the animals are killed. Well anyway sorry if that didn't make any sense its 4am here and I am tired but I would like to start editing with you soon. Salam and Jazaka Allahu Alkhayer for the good guild logo. Angry Ayrab 11:48, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

(Belated) Happy Birthday and Merry Christmas
Hi Jotourner. Thanks for your vote at Hindu-Arabic numerals. I wish you a belated Happy Birthday and hope you had a nice Christmas! deeptrivia (talk) 16:26, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Hindu-Arabic numerals
Hi! User:RN moved the article to Arabic numerals despite 28 votes favoring the title "Hindu-Arabic numerals" and only 17 favoring "Arabic numerals." He argues that if we don't count voters with less that 150 (or sth like that) edits, only 56% voters "support changing the title to Hindu-Arabic numerals", while at least 60% support votes are required. However, it was agreed between all parties in the beginning of the vote that the proposal is to move the article to "Arabic numerals" from "Hindu-Arabic numerals." It was also agreed (though I thought it was very unfair) that:


 * Those opposing the move have the advantage that it won't be moved unless there's a 60% majority
 * Those supporting the move have the advantage that the person proposing the move can do the *short* opening statement.
 * For all the rest of the voting procedure both parties are equal. (quoting Francis Schonken from 21:04, 18 December 2005 (UTC))

I would definitely have preferred it the other way round, since I think an opening statement makes a HUGE difference, since many people just read the opening statement and understandably don't bother with the discussion below the votes. The present situation was accepted with the agreement that the article will be moved to "Arabic numerals" only if more than 60% voters favored that title. Thus, only 40% oppose votes were sufficient to retain the title "Hindu-Arabic numerals." In the present situation (with over 60% voters opposing the change), I find the move to "Arabic numerals" ridiculous, besides being completely unjust and unfair. Your comments will be appreciated. deeptrivia (talk) 05:07, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Image in Qur'an article
Hi Jotourner. I was wondering if you could explain to me why some people believe the image in the Qur'an article is offensive. I understand it has to do with the woman's arm being bare, but there are images of women with bare arms all over Wikipedia. Why is this one in particular such a problem? Is it because a woman with bare arms is being allowed to read the Qur'an? I must confess I know very little about Islam, but I would love to learn more. I doubt I'm going to change my opinion on this particular matter, but it would be nice to at least understand the point of view they are coming from. Cheers. Kaldari 21:06, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the interest in learning about Islam. I personally am not offended per se by the picture, although, as you can see by my vote, I am in favor of removing it and, if possible, replacing it with a new one. Most likely, those Muslims who are offended by the picture are offended because the woman is in the presence of the Qur'an. Yes, there are other pictures with bare arms (and bare other-body-parts) on Wikipedia, but they are not in the presence of the Qur'an or any other holy book.


 * Muslims do believe in the Bible and the Tanakh in their original forms and therefore it is no surprise that a large part of what is stated in those two books is also stated in the Qur'an. But neither of those can be found today in their original forms; it is fact that they have been altered significantly. Very few, or if not nobody, alive today has even read the Bible in its original language. However, it is a proven fact that the Qur'an remains today as the most preserved book in history; not a single dot or stroke has been altered between the very first rendition of the Qur'an and the copy you can buy from a local bookstore today. By the way, I would like to point out that I am referring to the Qur'an in Arabic as "the Qur'an" in any other language is just a translation; translations can alter significantly.


 * The main reason for the Qur'an's preservation is that Muslims regard it as the word of God and therefore the most revered item one could ascertain in this world. Before touching or reading the Qur'an, the Muslim must cleanse himself or herself in a process called wudu. The Qur'an must be treated with the utmost respect; it cannot be taken into any unclean place (like the bathroom) or put on an unclean surface (such as the floor without a clean mat underneath). When disposing of the Qur'an, or any other item that bears a name of Allah (especially in Arabic), it must be burned or buried (odd as that may sound). Some Muslims will even go so far as to put the Qur'an higher than them whenever they read it or kiss the Qur'an when he or she sees one. In some countries, such as Pakistan, desecrating the Qur'an is punishable by a life sentence or death. I think you get the point; the Qur'an is respected most highly by Muslims.


 * Surely you can see why it could be considered sacrilegious to portray the Qur'an next to someone doing something un-Islamic. Non-Muslims are allowed to read the Qur'an. But this person, although presumably a non-Muslim, is dressed in a manner that violates the modest clothing outlined by the Qur'an and example (hadith) of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). The degree to which Muslims are offended by this portrayal of the Qur'an, as you can see, varies.


 * If you have anymore questions, feel free to ask. joturner 23:49, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the explanation. At least now I understand a bit of the reasoning behind why someone would be offended. As you have described it, the issue seems to be closer to profanity than obscenity, i.e. the problem has more to do with the subject's lack of religious reverance than the fact that her arm is uncovered. Would you say that is accurate? This seems a bit more reasonable, at least to my Westernized mind. The issue is certainly a difficult one, as Wikipedia's purpose is certainly not to be offensive. Reading over Profanity, it seems the question boils down to whether or not the image adds something of value to the article. Although that is certainly open to debate, my personal opinion is that the image does add something to the article as it is an interesting picture and provides good illustration for the last two paragraphs of "Writing and printing the Qur'an". Of course the issue ultimately boils down to editorial judgement, and that is where I suppose we must agree to disagree. It's unfortunate that the debate on the article talk page has accomplished little in the way of actual communication between the two sides of the issue. I think some of the people involved would be more receptive if the objections were explained better. Kaldari 05:41, 6 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I would have to agree that it's closer to profanity. joturner 11:14, 6 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually while AFAIK the letters in the quran today are the same as the ones in the oldest extant copies, dots and strokes were added - the dots that differentiate letters e.g. sin and shin (I'm not sure what those dots are called) and the harakat. See http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/compilationbrief.html for more detail. Schizombie 13:49, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

POV Edits in Current Events
Thanks for your help. How do you do the "revert to" command? Is that an editor command that is earned? Kukini 03:15, 6 January 2006 (UTC)


 * There is an admin command that makes it easier, but I'm not an admin. Adminship can be earned by it takes several months and at least 1000 or 2000 edits. But anyone can revert. You can look at the history and click on the timestamp of the last good version (the one you want to revert the page to). Then, the click "edit this page" at the top of that version. You'll get a warning saying you're editing an old version. Just post something like "reverted to someUser version" or "reverted vandalism" in the edit summary, submit, and you're done. joturner 03:24, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Kukini
He was warned. I was tired of putting up with his POV pushing. He's a new user whom I kept trying to help, I thought we had cleared things up when he put his item on Current events, but he kept insisting on inserting it into the 2006 article, and I had had enough. I say stop it now before he becomes another problem user. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:58, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I can let it go. I just am concerned that the NPOV policy is NOT being followed here. Iraqi deaths under American influence get deleted but not the deaths by insurgents. This seems quite peculiar to me. Kukini 21:59, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Mosque
I noticed you reverted my edit and said "will find source." If you are going to do that, insert the tag and revert, or wait until you have the information until you revert. Incidentally, the new version (25-27) is based on a Sunni hadith that many Shi'a might have a problem attributing to all Muslims. Just to avoid any future incidents, it is best not to attribute a Sunni hadith to an Islamic viewpoint. Actually, there seems to be alot of edit wars that are based on whether the view should be qualified by the term Sunni. See caliph, Hasan ibn Ali and Yazid. Two editors, one who is a Shi'a and I don't know about the other seem to go back and forth inserting Sunni in front of contentous statements. And also, the 25-27 number refers (to my knowledge) to prayer in congregation, it does not neccessitate prayer in a mosque. Pepsidrinka 21:45, 7 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for enlightening me about the use of the tag. Go ahead and remove the reference to a specific number if you feel it is fit. joturner 21:51, 7 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I've noticed you have been pushing to make this article better in the more recent past. And I imagine you would like you see this article on the featured status log. The only reservation I have, well let me say this. I think there are two possible options. We could qualify the statement to ascribe it just to a Sunni belief, until we can confirm or deny the belief within other denominations of Islam. Or we can just mention it to be more virtuous and link to the already linked citation you added. I prefer the latter, only because, when someone unfamilar with Islam reads that sentence, it doesn't really add anything unless you know how much reward or how much virtue there is in reading by oneself. Even for a Muslim (i.e. me), it is really ambigous just because, as far as I know, there is nothing explicitly mentioned for you to multiply it by 25 or 27. For example, in giving of charity, of the top of my head I'm inclined to say the reward in ramadan is 70-700 more. So something like that is tangible (i.e. you give $1 and the reward is $70-$700). Whereas in this, looking at it from a non-muslims point of a view, it doesn't add anything. Your thoughts? Pepsidrinka 22:12, 7 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I see what you're saying. Go ahead with the second option. joturner 22:16, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Another Post
Hey Jordan how's it going. I bet you can't guess who this is. --Pedxing585 02:31, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Hello there; welcome to Wikipedia. joturner 02:40, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Jung Han article
Yes, the article should be deleted. I know the poster and I know who he is referring to (as you can see by the post he made on my talk page. If you are an admin, go ahead and delete the article. By the way, don't associate the improper addition with me because I know him. I did not put him up to it. joturner 02:39, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not an admin, I merely tagged the page. Thanks for your message. Stifle 02:42, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Holidays
Hi Joturner, I saw that you added a list of pages that use the Holidays infobox on the talk page. You may also consider joining the holidays WikiProject which is still fairly new and needs as much help as possible! It would be appreciated if you joined! Thanks  D a  Gizza  Chat  19:45, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

How to perform Eid prayers
I'm not very knowledgable about prayers and I was trying to find an online description of how to perform the Eid-ul-Azha prayers by myself but couldn't find any reliable source (e.g. some come from a Madhi or Shi-a perspective). I think it would be quite useful and beneficial to add a paragraph on how to perform the Eid prayers either here in the Eid-ul-Azha article or on the Salaat article and then link it here.

Thanks to the muslim Guild and yourself for all of your great works relating to the Islamic articles. Keep up the commendable effort.

Eid Mubarak
Salaam. Eid Mubarak. I noticed you observed your first Eid al-Adha today. Insha'allah it went well for you. Pepsidrinka 20:26, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Age in Islamic years or solar years?
Thanks for your input on Talk:Islamic calendar. Do you know someone who could provide a more definitive answer, based on input from countries where Islamic ages might be common? --NealMcB 14:32, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Islamist terrorism and Islam in the United States
Hey joturner. It would be appreciated if you could take a look at these two articles where some highly anti-Islam POV is being pushed. Yuber(talk) 22:58, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't see any anti-Islam point of view in the Islam in the United States article. In the Islamist terrorism article, however, we are walking a fine time. The article is about a topic that by definition is going to have to say some disparaging things about Islam. It will have to talk about interpretations of the Qur'an that promote violence and opinions of these terrorist groups. But at the same time, the article has also mentioned interpretations of the Qur'an that denounce violence as well as Muslim leaders who are against terrorism. In my opinion, it is as neutral as possible. joturner 23:09, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

"Crusade"
I think your using the word "crusade" is highly suggestive and inappropriate. As I pointed out to User:Anonymous editor, I also changed articles where the Bible is called "the Holy Bible", and will continue to do so. I don't see why applying Wikipedia policies should raise eyebrows.

As far as I know, I have not deleted the definite article when deleting the word "holy"; it probably wasn't there in the first place. I am sorry for not having inserted it here and there. ---Benne ['bɛnə] (talk) 23:09, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, I was aware of the implications of the word crusade, but it was not used to be offensive. I tried to clarify that with the following sentence in which I plainly state that I'm not saying you're wrong. I do agree that enforcing Wikipedia policy should not raise a few eyebrows, but as I stated, almost all of these edits were in Islam-related articles. It makes me wonder (and certainly it will make others wonder) why you have chosen to enforce the policy in those articles primarily. And there have made some edits in which you have omitted the article when it originally was there. For example, see Sawm of Ramadan and Ramadan (calendar month). joturner 23:28, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry about those mistakes. Interesting to note their number seems to have instantly dropped from many to some. But I will try and be more careful.
 * And I don't think it's relevant which articles I edit. I can't edit them all at once. Like I said, I have edited and will continue to edit those articles where the Bible is called "the Holy Bible" (or the Vedas "the Holy Vedas", for that matter). Undoubtedly, some people won't appreciate that either, but should that stop me from doing so? ---Benne ['bɛnə] (talk) 00:02, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I've fixed the two instances you mentioned. ---Benne ['bɛnə] (talk) 00:17, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Quran photo
Thanks for your comments about the Quran photo. You're right: I don't have any legal control over whether the image is used in the article or not, but I thank you for considering my opinion on the matter. Quadell 13:16, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, there was a notice that photography was not allowed, but it wasn't enforced. They searched my bags for security reasons and saw my camera, and I had expected it to be a problem, but it was not. Many people, including me, were taking photos right in front of guards, and no one complained. You're right that that's not a copyright issue, but that's a common mistake to make -- people should assume good faith about such things. All the best, Quadell 23:57, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Mecca section reinstated
I have reinstated the section on the "Importance of Mecca". If you feel the wording of the section is incorrect, POV, etc, please edit it (of course) but if you want to remove it altogether please explain to the rest of us why! I personally think it shoul;d be kept because Mecca is a word known to all, whereas Hajj isnt. (Maybe should be, but isnt) so a brief description of the rituals on the Mecca page is useful. Those that want to delve deeper can the go to the Hajj page for greater detail.Jameswilson 23:49, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I was not the person who took out the "Importance of Mecca" section. The previous editor, 62.6.139.10, stated in his edit summary that he was restoring an unvandalized version. Clearly, looking at the difference between revisions, he was not reverting vandalism. I was simply reverting to the version that had been accepted for days (which curiously enough did not include the "Importance of Mecca" section). I have no problem with the section at all and believe restoring it was a good decision. joturner 00:19, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry - my mistake thinking it was you. Jameswilson 01:17, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

"Unnecessary sources"
Regarding these edits: What does it hurt to have more than one source linked for a story? Reading about events from more than one source can provide useful information or perspective. --Mr. Billion 05:33, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Do we really need three sources documenting a volcano erupting? I don't think so. The main point of the source is to verify that the occurence of the event occured. If there is so much information that we have several perspectives on an issue, we should just create a new article on Wikipedia. joturner 05:59, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree we don't need so many articles for the volcano thing (although some news sources did conflict on that), but the main point of news sources on Current Events is not simply to verify the entry that's on Current Events, but rather to make additional information available to users. Again, what harm comes from more than one source?  --Mr. Billion 06:42, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Assalamu alaykum
Assalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh,

Akhee, I was just reading your profile. MashaAllah, it nearly brought me to tears. I also reverted to Islam, a little over 2 years ago myself. Just want to say akhee, uhibbuka fillaah. I love you for the sake of Allah.

Wassalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

Mujaahid 07:21, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Keeping cool
It wasn't directed at anyone in particular; it was just a general reminder. I'm glad you didn't perceive any negativity -- perhaps I was reading into things. All the best, – Quadell (talk) (bounties) 14:20, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * }