User talk:Tavatar/Archive 3

GOCE drive news
Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors at 21:02, 16 January 2011 (UTC).

Zhang Jun (warlord) as a title
I would ask for your concurrence to move it back to Zhang Jun (Former Liang). The new title is less helpful because the other Zhang Jun were disambiguated due to their roles because some were contemporaries of each other, while this particular Zhang Jun is most identified by the state that he rules. Further, "warlord" is at least somewhat inaccurate as a descriptor as by that point, Former Liang was really a state of its own even though it claimed nominal subservience to Jin, Han Zhao, and Later Zhao. If disambiguation by role is absolutely necessary (and I still think that a role-based disambiguation descriptor is not as helpful as a state-based descriptor for him), "Zhang Jun (prince)" may be more appropriate. --Nlu (talk) 08:47, 29 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Zhang Zuo was the only Former Liang leader that ever claimed the "wang" (Prince or King) title among the rulers from the state. All other leaders officially ruled the state as "Duke" according to the Book of Jin and Shiliuguo Chunqiu.  Only artifacts discovered later on claimed they were Princes instead.  There may be WP:NPOV issue by calling him either (duke) or (prince) in the title, since there are still dispute between sources claiming different facts.
 * I do agree "warlord" is not the role description for the title, I probably continued it from the Three Kingdoms era. Zhang Jun's best described role would be a 君主 (Jūnzhǔ), which translates to monarch, sovereign, or lord.  I am a little reluctant on not using role description in title per MOS:DAB, since Zhang Jun (Former Liang) doesn't tell me much about the person, if there were multiple Zhang Jun sharing the same role in different time period/places, then combining Former Liang with a role as descriptor in the title would be appropriate.
 * I would recommend either "Zhang Jun (lord)" or "Zhang Jun (sovereign)"... maybe "Zhang Jun (ruler)" too (but that sounds like a measurement tool) T@vatar (discuss–?) 21:08, 29 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually, all of the Former Liang rulers were created princes (wang) by Han Zhao, and later Later Zhao, and later Former Qin. They all, at some point during their lives, renounced the titles, but they carried them for substantial parts of their rules.  I still think that using Former Liang as the disambiguator is the better solution, but I'm open to alternatives.  --Nlu (talk) 22:00, 29 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Ah... I see what you meant now, I re-read the Shiliuguo Chunqiu's volume 7, it did say Prince of Liang was created since Zhang Shi. I think Zhang Jun (prince) is fine based on that fact. I guess I got confused reading the part where Zhang Jun's son Zhang Chonghua claimed to be 假涼王 Acting Prince of Liang.  I'll go ahead and move the page. T@vatar (discuss–?) 22:18, 29 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks. (Zhang Chonghua was claiming the acting prince title vis-a-vis Jin.)  --Nlu (talk) 22:36, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Added template for SuggestBot
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GOCE January Backlog elimination drive conclusion
Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors at 15:53, 5 February 2011 (UTC).

Self-redirect for CUHK
Thank you for referring me to WP:THE. I am aware that such definite article is prevalent in the University's publication. I am also seeking official response to the issue. --Theowoo (talk) 09:03, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

The CUHK Communications & Public Relations Office has confirmed the following: The official English Name of CUHK is “The Chinese University of Hong Kong”. Thanks again, --Theowoo (talk) 10:42, 23 February 2011 (UTC)


 * If that's the case, I recommend opening a discussion at WP:REQMOVE to establish a consensus on changing the title name. Then an admin can make the move, just don't do a self-redirect because that erases the history of the article. T@vatar (discuss–?) 22:23, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Modifications of succession boxes
I really feel that your streamlining of the succession boxes — while it introduces consistency — also removed substantial amounts of information. For example, in your recent streamlining in Emperor An of Jin, you removed what I believe to be fairly substantial information about the regional territorial control. I would like to hear your thoughts on it, but I am beginning to consider reverting these due to the loss of information involved. (I mean, I do appreciate your work and good intent, but I think the loss of pertinent information is a little too much.) --Nlu (talk) 09:43, 3 March 2011 (UTC)


 * The main purpose of succession boxes were intended to track titles and succession lines, while the territorial control information should just be secondary information available only when represented by an official region regnal title such as King of Navarre. There were no official regnal title for those who control just part of China as regional warlords never claim multiple titles like western cultures, such claiming to be King of Shandong and King of Henan at the same time. There were always only be one official Emperor of China and the rest without dominate control were considered Pretenders for the title.


 * For Emperor An of Jin, he inherited the official (as Jin was the dominate power) Emperor of China from Emperor Xiaowu of Jin, and during his first term, his title was succeeded by Huan Xuan, but spawning 2 other pretenders during those years. He continued his second term which he took back title back from Huan Xuan and eliminated 2 other pretenders during those years, his title was succeeded by Emperor Gong of Jin, but spawning 1 pretender.


 * It's not a perfect method to clean up the boxes, but I find it more important to show simplicity and consistency rather than ambiguity. The information were never removed, they are still within the article itself.  T@vatar (discuss–?) 17:07, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

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GOCE drive newsletter
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GOCE elections
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GOCE drive invitation
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Hong Kong meetup
You're invited to the next Hong Kong meetup on 19 August in Think Cafe, Causeway Bay. Please sign up to the meetup on the meta meetup page. Hope to see you there! Deryck C. 16:18, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

GOCE drive newsletter
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GOCE drive newsletter
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Autopatrolled
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 * If you have any questions about the permission, don't hesitate to ask. Otherwise, happy editing! Acalamari 20:15, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

December 2011 Newsletter for WikiProject United States
--Kumioko (talk) 03:38, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

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GOCE newsletter
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