User talk:Technical 13/2013/4

Appealing to my go to template expert
I have a crazy thought, involving wp:cp

In short, it is badly backlogged, and clearing it out is boring.

What I would like to do is to arm-twist a few editors (maybe 100) to agree to a very small challenge - work on one a week. We get roughly 300 new items a month, so 100 doing one a week would clear the backlog (counting on some to do more, and some not to deliver)

Why am I telling you this?

Because I would like a nice, easy progress chart. One that lets editor know who is meeting this low commitment, and who is not.

Here's a crude mockup: User:Sphilbrick/Copyright_Progress_table What I do not want is for editors to have to update the chart themselves, so I am looking for your expertise. My hope is that there is a way to have an edit to the project page automatically update the progress chart.

Here's how I imagine it working, but you may have better ideas.

An editor reviewing an item will, at some time, use one of the templates in here to identify the results. Most indicate the type of positive resolution, some are not, I can identify the list of those qualifying. My hope is that the template, for example c could be modified so that it also updates the table. However, as I think about this, I realized the template is substituted, tso that may be a challenge.

I also have some thoughts about mass notification of results, on a monthly basis, but I am now concerned this isn't as easy as I thought, so I'll stop for the moment and see what you think.

I have not run this by our copyright expert yet, I want a sense of feasibility first. -- SPhilbrick (Talk)  15:14, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Hrm... That's not something that can be done with standalone templates. It "may" be possible to do it with a Lua module supported template though.  Also, the "easiest" way to do that would be to create a JavaScript that all of those interested in participating would have to load from their common.js  --  It is indeed doable using one of those two methods.  Also, using JavaScript opens up the possibility of your "notification" idea as well. Technical 13 (talk) 15:47, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not warming to the idea of asking volunteers to add a javascript. Not a big deal for some, but potentially off-putting to others. I'm not sure I would do it, for example. Let me see if I can come up with a plan B.-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  16:49, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Your article Multiple issues template/mainspace testcases
Welcome, and thank you for contributing the page Multiple issues template/mainspace testcases to Wikipedia. While you have added the page to the English version of Wikipedia, the article is not in English. We invite you to translate it into English. It currently has been listed at Pages Needing Translation, but if it is not translated within two weeks, the article will be listed for deletion. Thank you. Technical 13 (talk) 16:00, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Template help
Hey technical 13! I have a template question issue, and I thought "who do I know who might have the expertise to help", which brought me here. I see you're busy. No rush at all (good luck on your exams; remember, cram in short sessions with breaks in between). The long and short of the background is that there's lots of consensus that tagging new pages moments after creation with certain speedy deletion criteria should not be done. Specifically, CSD A1 (lack of context) and CSD A3 (lack of content). This also applies to CSD A7, but only sometimes. The problem is that taggers simply don't follow this for the most part, so we constantly see articles tagged for deletion literally seconds after they are created as, for example, being empty of content, even though the creator may be still writing the content over the next few minutes. Admins who review taggings may check the timing, but it's just glossed over often. To address this, I'm looking for a way to pass a note through to the speedy deletion templates (I suppose through db-meta, but it could be through the templates themselves (e.g. [ db-a1; db-a3, db-empty; db-a7, db-person, db-band, db-club, db-inc, db-web, db-animal, db-event ]) that would: Note that we seem to have been able to do something like this in the page curation tool (see here. If you can't help or advise it's not technically feasible I'll understand. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 04:59, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Be able to detect how many minutes ago the article was created and state something like:
 * This article was created only X minutes ago, and thus the very short time before it was tagged for speedy deletion may not have given the creator sufficient time to place their intended content
 * But the note would would never appear for articles tagged after some given time range, say 15 minutes (and the displayed note for articles tagged before the end of the period would stop displaying after the expiration of that time range); and
 * Would only appear for articles tagged under A1, A3 and A7.
 * Hmm. Interesting idea ; however, I think that 18748 is holding this up at this time. The only other ways that I'm aware of to do this would be with a little JavaScript snippet, or possibly a Lua module that returns what would return. I'll look into the Lua option first and see what I can do. If I can get that information, then I can easily add it to the template to only show a note to administrators similar to what I did to improve administrators awareness of if Db-g13s were compliant with the six month requirement. Technical 13 (talk) 11:58, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Cool. Thanks for looking into this. I wouldn't want it displayed only administrators but visible to all. That's actually important. A secondary effect of the note is to remind taggers, just by its presence, that they tagged too fast. (Note this footnote to A1 and A3). Thanks!--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:15, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * have you considered an edit filter to warn the tagger that they are tagging it too fast in those situations? I think that would have the best result for what you want here. Technical 13 (talk) 12:35, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, so I spent some time digging through the Lua documentation and finally gave up and asked, and this apparently can't be done with Lua. Technical 13 (talk) 12:51, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * (e/c) That's an interesting idea. However, don't edit filters stop an edit from being made, rather than warning? Even if we could stop any of the templates for A1 and A3 from being placed for say the ten minute period from creation, the consensus is that it's bad practice to tag immediately under these criteria; there is (quite specifically; it's been discussed) no consensus for making this mandatory. So if the filter would bar the edit, that would not work unless we got consensus for such a bar, and having seen past discussions, I don't think that would fly. Can it detect this and just warn? It also would not work for A7. Only some A7s shouldn't be tagged immediately – those where the content is undeveloped but an assertion of importance could be made. Many are not like this. For example, if someone says "my friend is an awesome skateboarder, all the girls love him" we already know everything we need to know to delete under A7, and so waiting serves no purpose. Anyway, even if such a filter can warn, it would only address the tagging end, and would not address the admin review end, i.e., the note I came here about would not be redundant even if we can also do this.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:58, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * As you can see on Special:AbuseFilter, most edit filters are just warnings (many tag the edit as well). An edit filter wouldn't "disallow" it necessarily, although I'm not sure how tools like deal with edit filters. Technical 13 (talk) 13:08, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh. So does that mean it can't be done at all until we get a magic word?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:58, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, this seems to be the case for the note in the template anyways. I could probably make it work "most of the time" by adding a parameter to those templates which Twinkle could populate, but not "everyone" uses Twinkle to tag stuff *gasps* Technical 13 (talk) 13:08, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh well. Thanks for looking into it! Such a throttle/warning for Twinkle (which I don't use, zounds! ) would be great though.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:17, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

, do you think you could make an edit filter up that warns users per above when they are tagging a page for CSD that is less than an hour old (or whatever the consensus it) for the above criteria and tag the edit as "CSDed quickly" or something? I'll work on making the modifications to the templates and once that is done I'll post a request on GitHub for the Twinkle implementation of those parameters. Technical 13 (talk) 13:26, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Regarding Twinkle: An abusefilter warning is at the moment an irrecoverable error and is displayed to the editor as an 'Unknown error' (new issue #182). Passing an additional 'age' parameter or some such is of course doable, we already query the initial revision to find the creator, will mainly require a bit of restructuring to do that prior to tagging I think. Amalthea  13:59, 7 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay,, I've added a (Creation TimeStamp) parameter to Db-a1 and Db-a3 to start. I'm unsure at this time of which of the more specific db- templates should have such a thing. Take a look at those two and get back to me with a full list of templates you want it added to and any wording changes and I'll implement it for you. :) Technical 13 (talk) 14:20, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey great. So let me see if I understand. The warning you posted in db-a1 and db-a3 (which I've tweaked) will be shown to Twinkle users (only) when they attempt to tag using those templates? Or something else?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk)
 * Once it is added to how Twinkle tags, they will be shown to anyone that views the page if it was tagged with Twinkle (or if the parameter was added manually, which I expect is more work than anyone will invest in the idea). Technical 13 (talk) 03:27, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I wish I understood. It seems that what it does is add a  parameter when a Twinkle user places the template, but when I preview manually to see what it might look like/where in he template it will appear, it simply doesn't display, e.g., when I preview somewhere  that "note" is not visible. So I can only imagine you still need to do some further coding to make the notes parameter display? Anyway, I will have to think about language for A7 (and its progeny) as it's different than A1 and A3. As to them, AFAICT the only other place where the language should be added is db-empty. All other templates I've looked at, like db-nocontent, are just redirects to db-a1 or db-a3.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:46, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Db-empty is namespace-specific: in categories, it calls Db-c1, and everywhere else it calls Db-a3, so it already has the language (unless you think it should be added to Db-c1), and the parameter just needs to be passed through if it exists. If you want to try previewing it, use such as  or . Technical 13 (talk) 13:14, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, with that I was able to preview. looks good. So it looks like db-A1 and A3 are covered (no db-c1, would never need such a message). As for A7, it needs to be much less aggressive and definitive, just raising the issue rather than making a proscriptive statement. Hmm. Okay, this should work (using some of the same language as at Special:Newpages):{{blockquote|text= |notes={{#ifexpr:({{#time:U}}-{{#time:U|{{{cts|1-1-1970}}}}}) <= 900|Note: This article was created less than 15 minutes ago and so the creator may still be adding content. Please consider patrolling pages from the back of the unpatrolled backlog. }} As for where to add this, like db-empty, which passes through A3, if any one the following list pass through A7, then they wouldn't need it (right?), but the list where it should be displayed is: {{tl|a7}} obviously, and db-person, db-band, db-club, db-inc, db-web, db-animal and db-event. Thanks!--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 22:47, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Those cats
The ones you put in half jest, half irony, on my talk page now seem to exist! Someone else added one, so I added the others. Fiddle  Faddle  22:35, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Your change to my talk
I like the formatting idea you did for the arrows, but where you put it (or perhaps how it was coded), the image links no longer work. Could you take a moment to see? &mdash;(っ◔◡◔)っ Ross Hill 23:07, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
 * They don't work when at the top of the page where they would probably be most useful. &mdash;(っ◔◡◔)っ Ross Hill 23:09, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
 * , I know. You actually have to manually scroll down "just a hair" and you can click them.  I couldn't figure out exactly what was causing it.  The alternative is to get rid of the z-index or set it as a small positive number to put them on top.  The problem with that might be if people have languages expanded, it may interfere with using those links.  I'm still thinking about how to make it so both work correctly without issues. Technical 13 (talk) 23:12, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

You've been trouted!
For this. :) -- t  numbermaniac  c  00:37, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

A question for my template expert.
In my sandbox, I passed parameter value "foo" to parameter "team", and it produces "foo women's basketball"

However, if I enter "foo Lady", it generates "foo Lady basketball" i.e dropping "women". See User:Sphilbrick/sandbox3 This is desirable, but I don't understand how it happens.

The goal is to make it work for 2013–14 Southern Utah T–Birds basketball team, where the team name indicates the gender, and the infobox link should be: not
 * Southern Utah T–Birds basketball
 * Southern Utah T–Birds women's basketball

I looked at the code, but I'm not seeing it. -- SPhilbrick (Talk)  00:34, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
 * It's because of the the code on Template:Infobox NCAA team season/team that uses a module to ReGex replace (.*)Lady blah blah (and it is case sensitive). Technical 13 (talk) 01:01, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks.-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  01:55, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

If you wouldn't mind taking a look at my question (located at the bottom of my talk page) when you get a chance ... no rush whatsoever, I would appreciate it.  Go  Phightins  !  02:37, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

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Template editor
Hi, I saw that you just received the protected template editor userright. Are there any full protected templates that you'd like to edit? Let me know and I'll downgrade the protection so you can do so. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 15:04, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Congrats on your new status. Wish I had seen the request, so I could have approved it, but some things are done quickly around here, and this was one of them. Add me to the list of editors willing to do the downgrade (if it isn't done en masse).-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  16:42, 17 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks guys. I'll put together a list next time I'm on a computer. :) Technical 13 (talk) 17:48, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The list of templates I've placed edit protected requests on in the past and may likely edit again in the future:
 * Template:Multiple issues
 * Template:Infobox software ✅
 * Template:Featured article ✅
 * Template:Good article ✅
 * Template:La ✅ - Template:Lx ✅ - etc...
 * Template:Db-meta ✅
 * Template:Ambox ✅
 * Template:Userbox ✅
 * Template:Userspace draft ✅
 * Template:Tracked
 * Thanks guys. Technical 13 (talk) 01:33, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Request for comment
As you previously  participated in  related discussions you  are invited to comment  at the discussion  at  WikiProject Articles for creation/RfC for AfC reviewer permission criteria. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:12, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Article ALLEN Career Institute
Hi there, hope all is well at your end. This has reference to my article ALLEN Career Institute. I am still waiting for the review. It been more than a month now and no answer from User:NawlinWiki also. I have also updated the content as per the feedback. Please help and guide me.

Regards Saxenanishank (talk) 07:07, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Template talk:Infobox album
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Re: CSD A11
If you believe you have a new argument that has not already been rejected by the consensus at WT:CSD, please do air it there. We have been discussing this for several weeks and consensus for a new criterion has developed. Unfortunately, you cannot unilaterally reject this change. –Roscelese (talk &sdot; contribs) 18:58, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * , I watch that page and have seen no section "RfC: A11", and checking the page history, it does not exist. The only thing I see that even mentions such a thing is "Made-up again" in which was declined by the majority of the community as a perennial proposal that is already covered by existing criteria and one person suggesting possibly creating an A11 criteria, which was was barely responded to and has not been discussed.  Put up an RfC and get a normal consensus before adding criteria to WP:CSD, especially criteria that would be frowned upon as WP:CREEP as they are already covered by multiple other criteria. Technical 13 (talk) 23:04, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * No Tech, the onus right now is on you - your last 2 edits to that page have been reverted, and now it's been protected by someone else - it's not Roscelese who is currently acting in a problematic manner, and you know better than this ES  &#38;L  09:10, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse
Thanks for helping out Daomeideren (and cool sandbox template, by the way), but nevertheless... Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  00:04, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I know what you're saying, but I didn't really give xe a fish. I also didn't teach him how to fish.  I just gave xe a line, hook, and a bucket and sent him on his way.  I suppose a link to WP:YFA and/or WP:WIZARD might be good for xe too, and I'll add that tomorrow.  Mostly calling it a night right now. Technical 13 (talk) 00:10, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Gathering consensus
And that's why every RfC (well, almost) degenerates into a free-for-all. You can tell  them  what it's about  and what  it's not  about  but  there are always some who  come to  grind an axe or two, take snipes at  people they  don't  like, ad just  generally  go  right  off topic: many  just  don't  bother to  read the preamble and proposal properly, very  few read through the discussion and that's why  they  don't  know what's going  on. I dropped myself in  the deep  end some years ago  and saved a huge discussion on  a new policy  from  dying  out  in  spite of literally  hundreds of participants, in the end after most  of the louder ones had left  the party, a very  small  group of us went  into  a backroom and tied it  up  neatly  without any  controversies. Problem is, you offer them  something  they  actually  want and a place to  discuss it, but  they  come up  with  arguments why  they  don't  want  it. I fully  sympathise with  your frustration. If you  use popups, just  drag your mouse down the signatures. Oh well... Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:44, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe I'll have some time once things slow down to go through and make sense of it. My brain is just too overloaded with my personal issue right now to worry about sorting those things out.  Thanks for stopping by, it is helping me deal with the frustration. :) Technical 13 (talk) 15:22, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for checking over the academy  draft, it's most  appreciated.  seems to  be very  busy  in RL too  and this school  has been on  a backburner for a long  time now. If  you  think  it's ready  to go I'll  move it  to  a AfC sub  page and start recruiting  for trainers. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:56, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I've been more busy than you could possibly imagine. The outernet can get a little demanding sometimes. But thanks, Kudpung and Technical13 and other people. You're wonderful. the  one  sean  11:12, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Happy Halloween!
Hi Donald! Wishing you a very happy Halloween :-)  TheGeneralUser  (talk)  23:03, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

I want to help, but have no idea where to start...
I have looked at both your userpage and you edit history. I think you are are a fantastic contributor, I have already began analyzing the mediawiki source code. But the truth is, I am just getting started. Yet I want to aid in the technical aspects of wikipedia. I am experienced in PHP, javascript and HTML.TechnicalEngineerA3 (talk) 11:40, 1 November 2013 (UTC) Tell me about all the template perimeters, as well as some of the things you help with. Also, I would like to know about all those 'bots' that circulate Wikipedia.TechnicalEngineerA3 (talk) 12:03, 1 November 2013 (UTC) Thanks for the template making guide.TechnicalEngineerA3 (talk) 16:11, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * That's great. Any ideas of where you would like to help, or with what kinds of things? I saw your start on Teahouse stuff (which is a tougher place to start with technical stuff), and I don't want you to be discouraged by having ideas and changes reverted. I'll post a welcome message on your talk page shortly, and I encourage you to read up on Wikipedia "policies" before trying to do too much changing. It's great having technical knowledge; however, there are many people here who are opposed to or in fear of change and improvement. I know as well as I'm sure you do that some of these changes and ideas only make sense from a technical aspect, but care and baby steps need to be taken where-ever possible to implement them or they will be met with strong opposition and no change will be possible. Anyways, feel free to ask me anything on my talk page here or send me an email and I'll try to answer any questions you may have. Happy editing! Technical 13 (talk) 11:54, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * A good place to start learning about templates (albeit a really poor outline with no context but a couple links) is User:Technical 13/Guides/TemplateMaking. I intend to actually make a "How to template for dummies" out of that, but as you can see on my page header, I'm dealing with some personal issues which is taking a great deal of my time at the moment.  Feel free to dig through those links (it's how I learned it all on my own) and if you have any questions...  Happy reading! Technical 13 (talk) 13:00, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Template edit request
OK I thought I could do this myself, but I'm nervous because I'm not fully following the template. There's a lot of hidden text, which is good because it helps explain, but the it wraps by line is confusing. I guess the template does a sequence of search and replaces, working from the outside in.

The goal is make make sure that 2013–14 Central Arkansas Sugar Bears basketball team shows: rather than in the info box.
 * 2013–14 Central Arkansas Sugar Bears basketball
 * 2013–14 Central Arkansas Sugar Bears women's basketball

I think this means I need to add a row containing:

(.* Central Arkansas Sugar Bears.*) women's|%1|plain=false

as well as another copy of the Invoke string replace, but I am worried I will screw it up.

Can I persuade you to make the change for me?

The template is Template:Infobox NCAA team season/name -- S Philbrick (Talk)  21:10, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * LOL Have you tried it in the sandbox? I'll do it for you if need be, but I bet you can handle it.  Just make sure that you throughly test it in the sandbox with every testcase you can and can't think would be possible. Technical 13 (talk) 22:23, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * OK I'll try it.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  22:32, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Whisperback
02:55, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Infobox criminal
Hi Technical 13. The decision of merging the template Infobox criminal with Infobox murderer was taken after a discussion at TfD which had been open for over a week without getting much attention. As you can read in the TfD page, a sandbox page and relative test cases had been created prior to the nomination. If you think the decision to close the discussion as merge was mistaken, you can write to the closing admin, or try WP:DRV.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 00:27, 3 November 2013 (UTC) Ahhh, wikipedia. Having read this, twice, I now understand it was about BLP articles where the topic-human in question was accused of a crime. But when I first saw it, I automatically assumed from the heated tempers, and the flying accusations, that this must be about the Musician BLP infoboxen cases which blighted ArbCom recently. I was worried somebody was trying to make a userpage template to label Gerda an the Infamous Infobox Criminal...! Sigh. When I figured out what was going on, I got a self-deprecating chuckle out of it. Hope this helps lighten your day, sorry about the WP:AGF difficulties here. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 15:32, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
 * , I've nothing against the merge itself. What I have a problem with is when the merge is being done live which is causing page breaking errors and issues.  It's not enough to write some of the code in a sandbox, please make sure it works before implementing live. Thanks. Technical 13 (talk) 02:44, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * In that case, you will agree that your revert was not helpful, because by that time the issue had been solved by a user who had decided to take a more constructive approach, by fixing the issue as it became apparent. For that reason, please make sure you have a reason to revert before doing so, and do not use misleading edit summaries that complain about non-existing issues. Thanks.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 02:50, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * , I do not agree that my reversion was unhelpful. I am extremely busy with real life right now and do not have the time or energy to debate this with you.  I also did not have the time at that point to go through and fix errors to a live template that shouldn't have happened in the first place.  All that I am asking is that you please make sure the code works before making it live in the future, is that going to be all that difficult for you? Technical 13 (talk) 15:37, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Don't ping me with this rubbish again, thank you. You neither noticed a mistake in the template nor your fixed one, your only contribution was to waste everyone's time. If you're such a busy person, I trust you will find something else to do other than to bother me.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 19:29, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse click through page
There is an overwhelming amount of users that do not realize that #wikipedia-en-help isn't a general reference channel. This extra step helps to insure that channel operates to it's greatest ability. John Reaves 01:59, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Talkback
TheOriginalSoni (talk) 08:53, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Nomination for merging of Template:Talk archive navigation
Template:Talk archive navigation has been nominated for merging with Template:Automatic archive navigator. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Steel1943 (talk) 22:05, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Just missing you
I was working with in  and realized I hadn't seen you around in a long time. I hope that you're doing alright and that you'll be back soon. --EpochFail (talk &bull; contribs) 18:39, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Soon,, soon, I hope. Technical 13 (talk) 15:19, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Template talk:Bullying
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Template editing
OK, I tried, but failed.

I created Infobox NCAA team season/namesandbox, edited it, and it seems to work in there.

See third to last example where "2013–14 Central Arkansas Sugar Bears women's basketball team" becomes "2013–14 Central Arkansas Sugar Bears basketball team"

That results should be passed to Infobox NCAA team season/teamsandbox

However, in that template the example (second from bottom) generates: 2013–14 Central Arkansas Sugar Bears women's basketball team

Which means the new testcase in Infobox NCAA team season/testcases do not work.

What am I missing?-- S Philbrick (Talk)  14:23, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

T13!
Looks like it's me and you for the December backlog drive. Let's kick some ass and completely eliminate the backlog. Hah. (Hope you're well! Miss harassing you on the IRC but I had to step away.  Everytime I logged on to ask a question I ended up hanging around for hours.  Way too much fun over there.) JulieJSFarman (talk) 23:57, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * That's it for now... Still over a month and we'll see what we get for additional help. Technical 13 (talk) 00:01, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Draft namespace
Hi. I was rather surprised to see your comment  at  Bugzilla. My first  impression  was that  it  appeared to  be an attempt to  rdebate the the community's consensus. The creation has been requested by  the Foundation, fortunately, because that  is the highest  authority. Bugzilla can be a finiky place, the techs can somtimes be a law unto  themselves, so  we don't  really want  to  give them any  more grounds other than the resistance they  are showing  already, to  delay  the implementation  that  has been agreed for, and in  name, by  the en.Wiki  community. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:40, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * , my reading of the RfC made it appear to me to be simply an RfC to determine if a namespace should be created for AfC drafts specifically, but I do not feel that what such a namespace should be called was part of the RfC. So, with that specific detail lacking from the RfC, I figured I would voice my opinion on bugzilla for now while I wait for the "RfC: What should we call the new AfC draft namespace?".  Hopefully that RfC will be started before too long and we can get things rolling. Technical 13 (talk) 03:50, 23 November 2013 (UTC)


 * The namespace will be called 'Draft:'. That  is what  was asked for and what  is going  to  rolled out  by  the Foundation. We have the Foundation's support for this because it  will  have cross Wiki potential. The only  RfC I  am concerned with  now involves AfC and setting  the criteria for permission to  review submissions. We  really  need to  avoid allowing  the Buzilla people putting  more rods across the road. 04:34, 23 November 2013 (UTC)Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk)


 * I think Kudpung has it right. What was approved at the rfc was a new namespace called DRAFT, with the intention of using it at enWP for RfC AfC and possibly other related things to  be decided later. The name "Draft" is pretty non-specific, and each project can use it for whatever purposes they choose to do so. I recognize the near-impossibility of changing a namespace name once it has been implemented, but I really don;t see how it could be better than this. Nothing in the RfC forces another project to use it for anything in particular--& I think most projects do not  have a process corresponding to AfC. Some might have a similar need, and if they do, it will be available.     DGG ( talk ) 05:41, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * , I was thinking along the lines of using it for WP:RA where people could create pages with the topic, a blurb about the topic, and list three sources to get someone started in creating an article. The name "Draft:" for a requested article just seems "wrong" because it is not really a draft.  It is a list of sources and an idea from which a draft could be spawned.  I'm thinking after seeing The Wikipedia Adventure the the Guided Tours extension could be used to make sure that all of the information is there to make a valid request (requiring this information should greatly reduce the backlogs at RA.  I was originally creating an extension to merge AfC and RA into one unit, but that was slow and time consuming and I've shifted gears in thinking that most of all of the same thing can be handled with a single guided tour. Technical 13 (talk) 15:54, 23 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I think   meant "using it at enWP for AfC" -  a forgivable slip  with  all  the acronyms we use. The RfC was launched primarily as a follow up  to previous discussions about  ways to  improve AfC and that's what  the consensus for its approval  was mainly  based on. In  that  respect, they  are indeed 'drafts'. I think suggesting  it  for use at  Requested Articles may  have some possibilities, but  that  would be for an entirely  different  discussion. I  believe we should get  this draft  namespace created as quickly  as possible because there will  be other work to  do for its use at  AfC which,  as we all agree, is in  dire need of streamlining. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 16:04, 23 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Technical13, your idea would also be a good one. I think once we get AfC improved, we could probably use it for Requested articles also. We will probably get suggestions to use it for all sorts of things beyond what the 3 of us here can think of. The point of this is that we do not have to specify all the possibilities in advance, or tie this to any specific process.(Personally, I would like to discard the AfC process altogether and replace it by something new, but in the meantime we do have it and we need to do it in a clearer way.)

Names of this sort do not necessarily have to be meaningful 'W" and "WT" space are not intuitive, and we know what they mean because we use them so much--doing it over, we might what to call it Project space. Similarly "TimedText" space maybe necessary for technical reasons, but nobody could say it's the only possible name. Along the same lines, I think "Book"space is confusingly similar to another WP project, but we're using it, so we might as well do so. And I never did understand why we need a special Portal space, instead of accommodating it in either article space or WP space. The thingis, none of this matters. What matters is to have a workspace of some sort--we know we need it can can use it for AfC--se'll see what else later.
 * But we need something now, and there are two choices: discuss the name of it for another few months, or get this necessary first step done,  and start working on something substantial.  DGG ( talk ) 16:34, 23 November 2013 (UTC)


 * PLease see this statement from  the WMF. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:24, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Edit Count
can you add one of those like yours in my user page? I am not able to follow the toolserver link. Thanks!  Miss Bono  [zootalk]  14:12, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello, usually I would be happy to. That actually doesn't require you to follow the toolserver link.  It's a userscript that I have been developing that creates that table, and it is still too unstable for me to recommend you add it to your setup just yet.  I'll work on it in a couple weeks (I have a 2 or 3 month backlog of schoolwork I need to get done in the next 10 days, so I'm just poking in to respond to questions and such on my talk page and "not do anything of significance that will require much time"). Poke me again in a couple of weeks and I'll get the userscript back to a stable beta and help you learn how to use it (it is stupid easy to use, just click a link in your toolbox and wait a few minutes). Technical 13 (talk) 14:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
 * wao! Thanks Tech! I'll poke you again for sure. Good luck with your schoolwork...  Miss Bono  [zootalk]  15:10, 9 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Did you solve the problem with the edit counter? I need to add those [edit] to the sections in my user page. Do you know how to do it?   Miss Bono  [zootalk]  19:54, 16 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I know it's been a while, but I've finally gotten around to tweaking my edit counter script. Using this script creates a table of your edits (like the one displayed to the right here (click the [show] link to expand)).  This does not have to be collapsed by default, and you have some control over the overall appearance of the table, but not the individual elements as of yet (it's on the "to-do" list).  Tell me what you want it to look like on your user page, and I'll help you set it up. :) Technical 13 (talk) 18:08, 3 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Cool! See, I have my userboxes I want the table to go below the userboxes at the left side. Thank you so much :)   Miss Bono  [hello, hello!]  12:05, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * LOL what I meant was what do you want your table to look like? Want it to be a collapsed table like mine?  Do you want any colors or fonts?  Do you want a different setting for your datestamp at the bottom?  Do you like the NS:### or would rather not see that?  :)  I'll tweek the script and help you set it up.  Once that is figured out and you get your first table made, it will be easy to put it where you want on your page. :) Technical 13 (talk) 22:12, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, sorryp! :(... Well, I like the way it is, but maybe with a bgcolor in the header that contrasts with the bgcolor of my userpage. Thanks!
 * Okay, I've made the adjustments needed for the script to allow customization of the header, what I need you to do is add the following block of code to your common.js:


 * Once you do that, WP:BYPASS your cache, and then navigate to your user page. There should be a new link there under "user contributions" that says "Edit counter".  Click that and wait until it says "Done!"  You should be able to reload the page and see your new collapsed table all filled in with numbers.  Feel free to change the color for the tableTopStyle as you like.  Happy editing! Technical 13 (talk) 22:24, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Wao! Thanks, I'm on my way. I hope you solve your problems :D   Miss Bono  [hello, hello!]  12:44, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
 * It is not working. It doesn't even show the "Edit Counter" tool. I hope you are doing good and you come back soon :)  Miss Bono  [hello, hello!]  18:36, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks like you installed it correctly in your common.js -- so -- what you need to do is go to Special:MyPage/common.js in Firefox and click . Then, go to User:Miss Bono and click .  Then, expand the "Toolbox" section in your side bar and the fourth item down (right under "User contributions") should be "Edit count", click that and watch it go... When it says "Done!" do one more  and it should be there... If not, I'll need to know which skin you are using so I can test and see what is up.  :) Technical 13 (talk) 18:58, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

I am using Vector skin  Miss Bono  [hello, hello!]  12:10, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey, sorry about my delay. Vector is the one I've tested it with, so it should be good.  Take a peek at User:Technical 13/Scripts/Edit counter and go through and make sure that you've followed each step documented and let me know what you find. I'm baffled as to what might be missing, unless there was a step you've missed (which might have been because I forgot to give clear instructions).  If you still can't get it working after that, we'll have to see if you can get me some screenshots (preferably with error console open). Technical 13 (talk) 15:22, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * , you still around and needing help with this? I've not seen a reply as to whether you have gotten it working or not.  Thanks! Technical 13 (talk) 16:53, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Infobox television
Please restore the production_website_title parameter immediately. There was no consensus whatsoever to remove it. Dogmaticeclectic (talk) 20:28, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, please add an official_website_title alias as your edit is inconsistent otherwise. Dogmaticeclectic (talk) 20:30, 25 November 2013 (UTC)


 * ✅ - Thanks for pointing that out (which is actually more typing than "" believe it or not because of the way that I just copy and paste from your signature line).  I hadn't noticed that those were changed in the sandbox.  In the future, please don't be so BITEDEV in pointing such things out and please do AGF, as I would appreciate that.  Thanks. :) Happy editing! Technical 13 (talk) 23:01, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I was obviously not aware that the changes were from the sandbox and thought you had made them yourself; my message would have been worded differently otherwise. (Since when are mere template editors developers, though?) Dogmaticeclectic (talk) 23:06, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
 * This one happens to be as are many others... ;)Technical 13 (talk) 23:13, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, now I'm curious... what exactly do you mean? Dogmaticeclectic (talk) 23:14, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
 * User:Technical 13/Scripts -- User:Technical 13/Templates -- User:Technical 13/Userboxes -- GitHub -- Bugzilla -- I've done everything from templates, to userscripts to gadgets (including WP:AFCH and WP:TW edits), to MediaWiki extension patching (and have been developing one of my own for AfC which may be scraped to use Guided Tours instead it seems), to testing and helping out with troubleshooting core code. Many of us TEs are developers in some aspect or another. Technical 13 (talk) 23:23, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Template:Reply to
Well, ping? --TMg 23:10, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Requests for template-editorship
Sorry about this - I thought that you had simply copied the last part of my comment and signed it as your own, seeing as they were almost identical. You're right that I should have linked to CAT:ETP rather than CAT:EP though. Best — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 03:14, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
 * No worries. I was not all that offended by it.  I AGFed and just fixed it. :) Technical 13 (talk) 03:19, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

About your recent RfA !vote
You forgot to sign it. AutomaticStrikeout (₵) 01:09, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I've been doing that a lot lately... Sinebot is suppose to catch it for me (I've opted in to ignore my edit count)... I'll get it, thanks. :) Technical 13 (talk) 01:12, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
 * No problem. Happy Thanksgiving! AutomaticStrikeout (₵) 01:18, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Plea from SOCK
help me I have one account and do not understand wht there will be an investigation.

Please help

Please help!

I have had only one account and the same account. On September 19, 2012 I left Indiana University Kokomo. At Indiana University two employees of IT at Indiana University Kokomo, IT, also worked on the Wikipedia page. They are: Kathy Kennedy and Jonathan Grant.

The article is balanced, clean and factual. It is set according to all rules and process. I am at a loss what the issue is.

Thank you! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Harris_%28academic%29 (Tnoova (talk) 03:16, 29 November 2013 (UTC))
 * I really don't care. I realize it may be difficult, but if what you say is true, the investigation will reveal that and you'll not have any problems.  In the mean time, please do not post on my talk page again.  Thank you. Technical 13 (talk) 03:26, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

December 2013 - January 2014 AfC Backlog Elimination Drive
I noticed that you have signed up for the drive. Please note that the AFCBuddy script does not appear to be functioning at this time. Therefore, user Backlog Elimination Drive log pages will need to be manually updated. Northamerica1000(talk) 04:51, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

FYI
See Deletion review/Log/2013 December 7 and others. 213.144.224.123 (talk) 22:28, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Diplomatic incidents an WP:AfC
No names here to prevent angry crosstalk.

I'm a little confused to be honest by the whole thing, and a little scared. Before you weighed in I thought I had put this to bed, I had made a positive stand for good on wikipedia and was going to rest. I understood that before taking things to incident boards, you had to at least try and resolve things amicably, which is what I thought I did.

I thought someone had been treated badly in a thread, I put two messages, one encouraging one to the person who had made a minor faux pas in over reacting to sharp language, and one trying to persuade the other to try and be nicer in the future.

I wrote a message trying to persuade the person who caused the incident to think about how they had acted. I didn't be rude and just say "You did this wrong- don't do it again" as some at WP:AfC would (and have on my talk page)- I took time to explain my perspective. And to me that is politeness. I also put things in the perspective of my background, and how I would feel if I was misunderstood- empaphising with the person I wrote to. This is compassionate. I also coached my criticism in muted terms, rather than bold harsh ones. This again is a kind of politemess I hope to see more of in wikipedia. I started with "hi"- friendliness.

There was one bit though where I was comparing the injured parties slight over reaction to the other parties major over reaction in a kind of compare and contrast- these are similar. Describing being intollerant of a minor faux pas while expecting people to tollerate a major one as hypocricy was not something I was pleased of, but I couldn't think of any other way of putting it. But at the end of a message where such thought had put in, thinking the wholes as rude over just that is a little... odd.

It's all very kafkaesque and frightening now. Rankersbo (talk) 06:52, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I really don't know what this post was meant to accomplish, and I don't know how I could possibly respond in a manner that might set your mind at ease. All that I can offer at this point, is my understanding that this is just a wiki. Everyone is entitled to their own sense of what is rude or polite and what is civil or not, and I've observed that the scale from one person to another is immense.  Personally, I'm very very, very, very difficult to offend because I really do not care what others think of me.  Now, that's not to say that I'm immune to err, and when pointed (I prefer the pointing to be straightforward and to the point in the form of "This is what you did, and this is where it says we probably shouldn't do such things") to my mistakes am the first to go in and try and fix whatever needs to be fixed and offer my apology.  I personally am not offended when others apologize on my behalf and on behalf of the project if something I said has been misunderstood in an offensive way (and that happens way more often than I would like, but it is what it is) and it is just a matter of language or tone.  Anyways, since I have a feeling this is something you may wish to discuss in more detail, might I suggest using the "email me" feature on this page (yes, I've got it enabled) and I would be happy to look over page revisions or whatnot and discuss the details.  Happy editing and I wish you a happy holidays! Technical 13 (talk) 01:52, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Trout-arang
For. The IP address was complaining that their submission had not been accepted, not that they were attempting to submit. Hasteur (talk) 18:05, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Meh, I started to realize that after it was done, but decided the IP might get it better if I just left it as it was. It's all good. :) Technical 13 (talk) 00:32, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Userbox categories
Hi, Technical 13, I was trying to empty out Category:Disambiguation categories that are supposed to be empty and there is one category, Category:WikiProject participants, that contains three of your user pages. I looked at the Edit function on those pages to see if it was some code/text I could alter so that they would not be assigned to this category but no luck. This isn't urgent but if you could fix this, I could cross this one off my list. ;-) Liz  Read! Talk! 03:50, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * , yes, Category:WikiProject participants, is a category I created that is suppose to be populated with a listing of all Wikipedians that are a participant of a WikiProject. So, I'm confused as to why is it suppose to be empty? Technical 13 (talk) 03:59, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't know why it was assigned as a disambiguation category. Let me ping Obiwankenobi and BrownHairedGirl, who are more experienced in categorization than I am, and see if they know more about the situation. Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 04:07, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I dont know why either, I removed it from dab category. If this cat is really intended to list all wikipedians who have professed an interest in a particular wikipedia project, I'm not convinced we need it, and it should perhaps be deleted. It's not a defining feature; wikipedians come and go from various wiki projects.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 06:50, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I could see a point to this category if it was a container for categories of members of individual wikiprojects, but it isn't. However, that purpose is already served by Category:Wikipedians by WikiProject. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:04, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * It was a category I made to try to get an idea of how many people are in a WikiProject compared to not in a project. I intended to follow up that data with a new script to make working in WikiProjects a little easier, but it hasn't materialized yet and I haven't pushed the category much because of that. Technical 13 (talk) 13:06, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Convert/3 usage
Just FYI. In many cases, the Lua Convert can hande 3-number conversions, except when parameter 2 is free-form text (not simple "-" or "to" or "by"):

Hence, all those Convert/3, Convert/flip3, Convert/4 (etc.) must remain as wp:wrapper templates, providing extra options which the basic {convert} cannot handle. Many recent Lua Convert problems involve numeric precision:
 * – 5000 - 5001 m
 * – 5000 - 5001 m

The Lua has the old rounding, where 1 extra metre increases 5000 m by 407 feet(!) as "16,407 ft" and several users, over the years, have complained, and so it had been fixed now, in the markup Convert. Some tiny amounts show no difference in Lua:
 * – 800.4 - 800.5 lb
 * – 800.4 - 800.5 lb

Here, the tiny difference between 800.4–800.5 has been lost in the Lua version, which shows both results as the same, "363.1–363.1 kg". I recommended the default precision be fixed before the Lua transition runs the 2-week reformatting of all 554,000 articles which would undo the corrected precision. However, people wanted to "install Lua" and so I offered Template:Convert/hybrid to allow 10% Lua but keep the improved precision in dash-range numbers. Also, consider the current auto-correction of some units, by markup-based Convert:
 * – 27 lb <--detects "km" but uses "kg"
 * – <--detects "km" and dies

Auto-correction can even change from weight to volume-weight of water:
 * – 27 lb <--converts to water
 * – <--detects "gal" & dies

People also requested to convert barrels into tons of oil, so this barrels-to-tons auto-correction was added as well, but will be lost in the Lua version. However, all year, it has been nonstop "Lua Convert" and losing all markup-based Convert improvements for the year was a predictable outcome. It's no big deal, as we saw the warning signs all year long. Happy New Year! -Wikid77 (talk) 02:19, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Hrmm... Not impressed by some of the losses of enhancements... Let me see what I can do about that. Technical 13 (talk) 03:06, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I've considered, for January 2014, to ask at wp:Lua_requests to get helpers to deduce updates to Module:Convert and help test the sandbox results. Also, the Module:Convert/data is generated, as output, which could be altered to include an auto-correction formula for each unit-code, or perhaps only some cases. Meanwhile, if a person asks for "weight of gallons" the plan is to say "use {convert/old|27|lb|gal}" and they can get the Template:Convert/old auto-correction and precisions. The future is open. -Wikid77 16:28, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Your submission at AfC Template:Mem/ttua was accepted
<div style="border:solid 1px #57DB1E; background:#E6FFE6; padding:1em; padding-top:0.5em; padding-bottom:0.5em; width:20em; color:black; margin-bottom: 1.5em; margin-left: 1.5em; width: 90%;"> Template:Mem/ttua, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created. The article has been assessed as Template-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article. You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. . Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia! Technical 13 (talk) 12:22, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
 * If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk.
 * If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider.

Request an account process
Technical 13, thank you for interest in the account creation process. I have verified that you are identified to the Wikimedia Foundation and have approved your tool access, welcome to the team.

You will be able to access the interface here in a day or less. Before you do so, please read the account creation guide and the username policy thoroughly to familiarize yourself with the process.

You will need to subscribe to the mailing list as this is where discussions on policy and procedures take place, as well as it being a place to get help. We also have a private IRC channel,, where a bot informs us when new account requests come in and to get advice on requests.

I would like to emphasize that it is not a race to complete a request, and each one should be handled diligently and thoroughly. Currently you are allowed to create up to six accounts per day, although you won't be able to create an account with a similar name to that of another user; these requests are marked "Account Creator Needed" by the bot and "Flagged user needed" on the interface. However, if you reach the limit frequently, you can request the account creator permission at WP:PERM/ACC. Please keep in mind that the ACC tool is a powerful program, and misuse will result in your access being suspended by a tool administrator. Don't hesitate to get in touch with me if you have any questions. Thank you for participating in the account creation process. Again welcome! Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 00:44, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
 * It's my pleasure. :)  I've already looked at and made my first deferment to CheckUser (I hope that was the correct result for me) and am still poking around a little trying to get familiar with the interface.  I'll process some more requests soon!  :) Technical 13 (talk) 13:15, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Trivial help, please
I copied one of your userboxen and modified it here: User:Timtrent/Userboxen/Not_Dude and I suspect a man of your calibre can tweak it to make it prettier. Please feel free to play, but please explain what you have done on the box's talk page Fiddle   Faddle  17:22, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Composition bar
As far as I can tell, if both and  are present (although having 5 without 4 is difficult!), then 3, 4, 5 become the R G B values (0-255) of an RGB triplet that makes the bar colour. Hope that helps. --RexxS (talk) 15:15, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
 * If that undocumented feature isn't being heavily used, it should be deprecated and removed from the template. Thank . Technical 13 (talk) 18:34, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Australia national association football team
Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Australia national association football team. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:09, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello Technical. Just an FYI with regards to your comments, you have selected the wrong page for views - "Australia men's national association football team" is a redirect with no incoming links - the actual article is at "Australia national association football team". The page views in the last 90 days are 113882 for the men's article and 8196 for the women's. Number   5  7  07:48, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey, I see you've read the rest of my comment. It's all good. :)  Happy editing! Technical 13 (talk) 12:02, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * No probs. However, as you may have spotted on my reply on the article talk page, I don't think it's a fair comparison - one is a redirect with no incoming links, and the other is an article with 100s. I think a more accurate comparison is the number for the men's article at its current title to that of the women's article. If most readers were looking for the women's article, they'd probably click through using the hatnote, yet the women's page views is around 7% of the men's one. Plus of course not all visits come from searches - a significant proportion come through clicking through from other articles, most of which are linked to the correct article. Cheers, Number   5  7  17:10, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Substituting templates inside references
Hi Technical 13! I've very intrigued by the possibility of substituting templates inside references. I'm working on resolving Category:CS1 errors: dates, including parameters such as March 5, 2009. When I try to subst it, it either doesn't work or generates a bunch of code inside the reference.

After trying your exact example with success, I built User:GoingBatty/Subst test to do some testing. I figured if I could get Reference 1 to work, then I could expand it to Reference 2 and beyond. For Reference 1, I tried: When I tried that, I got. Any ideas on how to do this? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 22:48, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Find:
 * Replace:
 * I'm assuming your find was actually  and that you realize if you're subst:ing a template, everything in the template needs to be subst:ed as well. Technical 13 (talk) 23:45, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
 * In AWB, the find statement works whether I use "{{" or "\{\{" . I apologize that I don't understand the advice in the rest of your comment.  GoingBatty (talk) 00:01, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
 * hard to explain from my mobile. I don't suppose you could ping me in {{freenode|#T13}}? Be much easier. Technical 13 (talk) 00:14, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Trying now - this is urgent though, I'm more than willing to be patient until you're in front of a PC. GoingBatty (talk) 00:20, 22 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay, what I was trying to say (I'm home in front of my PC now) is that although you seem to be subst:ing the template into the {{Tag|ref}} you're not subst:ing the contents of the template. So, the problem you are facing is that {{Tl|Start date}} isn't intended to be subst:ed.  To reach your ultimate goal of turning   into   (if I understand it correctly) you will need to:
 * Find:
 * Replace:
 * Which will turn:  into   which will parse out as
 * This is what I think your end result goal is, yes? Technical 13 (talk) 01:27, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's what I'm looking for! Thank you for my introduction to parser functions - I look forward to playing around with it over the holidays!  GoingBatty (talk) 01:57, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
 * {{U|GoingBatty|GB}}, there will probably be a few edge cases where {{para|accessdate}} is the first parameter and it will throw the above off a little because $1 won't exist. Unfortunately, AWB doesn't offer a $0 which would return the number of parameters and make this easy to fix.  I believe the $0 has been requested before, and I'm not sure what happened to that.  For some further reading to understand why these things work as they do, you might be interested in mw:Help:Extension:ParserFuntions, mw:Manual:Substitution, and mw:Extension:Cite/Cite.php Technical 13 (talk) 02:32, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Merry christmas!
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레비  Revi  con is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message. and a happy new year! -- 레비  Revi  con 07:30, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

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''' JianhuiMobile talk is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the Christmas cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas3}} to their talk page with a friendly message. ''' JianhuiMobile talk 07:48, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!
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 Pr at yya  (Hello!) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message.  Pr at yya  (Hello!) 05:26, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Merry Christmas from Cyberpower678
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— cyber power <sub style="color:olive;font-family:arnprior">Online <sup style="margin-left:-6.1ex;color:olive;font-family:arnprior">Merry Christmas is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message. — cyber power <sub style="color:olive;font-family:arnprior">Online <sup style="margin-left:-6.1ex;color:olive;font-family:arnprior">Merry Christmas 22:50, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Happy Halloween!
11:55, October 31, 2013 (UTC)

NS:MEDIA listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect NS:MEDIA. Since you had some involvement with the NS:MEDIA redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). — Preceding unsigned comment added by DePiep (talk • contribs) 01:52, December 2, 2013 (UTC)‎

NS:SPECIAL listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect NS:SPECIAL. Since you had some involvement with the NS:SPECIAL redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). — Preceding unsigned comment added by DePiep (talk • contribs) 01:52, December 2, 2013‎ (UTC)

Merry Christmas!
<div style="; float: left; margin-top: 3px; background-color: #CD0412; border: 1px solid #0F6E02; padding: 10px; width: 425px; clear: both;"> <div style="; border-style:solid; border-color:#0C8703; background-color:#CD0412; border-width:5px; text-align:left; padding:18px;" class="plainlinks" valign="top" width: 300px;> Mat ty. 007  is   wishing   you   a   Merry   Christmas  ( quite possibly a   White   Christmas . '''

<span style="color: white; margin-bottom: 0.3em; font-size: 116%; border-bottom: medium none; font-weight: bold; background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% transparent; margin: 0px; overflow: hidden; padding-top: 0.5em; padding-bottom: 0.17em;">Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year ''' This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove.

Spread the Christmas spirit  by adding    to someone's talk page with a friendly message. If everyone who got this put it on two talk pages, we would have... lots of Christmas spirit! Have fun finding links  in this message!

— 05:11, December 24, 2013 (UTC)

Flag of Selangor
Tech 13, please look at my sandbox – I think this is what the editor at Template talk:Country data Selangor is talking about, to add the pre 1965 flag as a variant. The problem is either my eyes or something else, but I cannot get the variant flag icon at the bottom of the documentation to appear in the lighter yellow of the older flag. What am I doing wrong? –  Paine Ellsworth   <b style="font-size:x-small; color:blue;">C LIMAX !</b> 04:38, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I got it. The icon was not appearing correctly because it isn't actually created until the variant is added to the live template. Happy Holidays and New Year, too, Technical 13! Joys! –  Paine Ellsworth   <b style="font-size:x-small; color:blue;">C LIMAX !</b> 06:52, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Trover (December 31)
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