User talk:Tharthan

I miss the "Orange Bar" that notified me when I had a new talk page message. The modern means of notification used on Wikipedia are fine, but the orange bar stood out so much that it would immediately get one's attention.

Hello. Welcome to my talk page. If there is something that you wish to discuss, please feel free to do so. However, I ask that you remain civil and cordial if you can. I can sometimes be a little hotheaded, but please don't let that get to you.

Bubblers in Wisconsin? Ya hey dere, you betcha!
The assertion I've seen made repeatedly is that "Bubbler" or "Bubblr" was a pioneering brand of water fountain which was the first to see widespread use, 1) in certain areas of New England; and 2) in Wisconsin. I can only attest that in fact the term is so widely used here as to be considered diagnostic as to whether one has spent much time in Wisconsin. (Direct linguistic influence is unlikely, as the wave of "Yankee" immigration to Wisconsin died down after railroads supplanted "canals+Great Lakes passenger ships" as a major mode of immigration to these parts.) -- Orange Mike &#124;  Talk  23:40, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Huh. I wonder about that, though. Mayhap it's just an extremely odd coincidence. It's not too far-fetched to suppose that two separate individuals would look at an old fashioned bubbler (that bubbles) and call it a bubbler based on that.

By the way, as a linguist I'm a bit interested because I never hear about Wisconsin: what common dialectal (or regional) terms do you fellows use out there? User:Tharthan (talk) 23:58, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
 * The term "bubbler" where used is deeply imbedded, too deeply (IMHO) for mere coincident neologisms gone viral.
 * Regional dialects are not a major area of expertise for me. Milwaukee classic Sout' Side is a mixture of Midwestern working-class American (think Chicaga, but a bit less Irish influence; terms like "youse" or "youse guys" as second person plural); turning of "th" into "d") with Germanicisms vaguely reminiscent of Pennsylvania Dutch. There are old exaggerated self-mockeries. "Down by Two Street an' Mitchell, where the streetcar turns the corner round." "Ain'a?/Ain'it?" "Park there once." ("At the intersection of 2nd Street and Mitchell, where the streetcar tracks make a turn." general interrogative at end of sentence, meaning "Is this not so?" like the German "Nicht wahr?" or the Esperanto "Ĉu ne? "Park at that location, then remain there without having to move.")
 * Rural Wisconsin shades to the more famous Minnesotan dialect, with all the "Ya, sure, youbetcha" or "Youbetcha" and the like: a former New England substrate, overlaid with generations of Germans, Scandinavians, Germans, Poles, and Germans, with a dusting of Irish and others. "Ya, hey dere" is more rural than urban, but will occasionally be used by a Milwaukeean trying to sound more generically Wisconsinite. Also examine the stuff at this link. -- Orange Mike &#124;  Talk  22:22, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Doctor fish
You added bonefish as a synonym. But, although they look alike, a bonefish seems to be huge. Do they have them in tanks nibbling at people's toes? Do they nibble their toes off? :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:50, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
 * In New England, bonefish is used to refer to the doctor fish. This is similar to, for instance, how people in Australia may use "prawn" to refer "shrimp". Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 13:04, 17 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Okay. So, not the fish in the picture, right? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:16, 18 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Nope. This. Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 01:17, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Thank you kindly. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:19, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
 * The pleasure was mine. :) Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 01:24, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

By the way, I like your userbox: "This user doesn't invoke conspiracy as explanation, when ignorance and incompetence will suffice." Paraphrasing Gore Vidal, when asked about the elite and their conspiracy theories: "They seldom need to conspire. They all just think alike." :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:37, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks For Your Thanks!
Thanks for your thanks re the English language article :-) I read with interest that you are from New England, unfortunately, I spent the majority of my time studying and working on the west coast having never really had the opportunity to visit the original 13 colonies, I must make a visit to New England top of my must-do list for 2015. ps, I love your info box! Twobells (talk) 14:32, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

No problem. I simply wished to have facts not misstated! It's good to meet you, by the way. Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 13:00, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Do you have sources at hand about English?`
Hi, Tharthan, I've visited your user page after seeing your edits on English language, and I'm wondering if you have any sources at hand about that topic as you edit. I was at a large university library earlier this week circulating books about the English language (books published all over the world, about all aspects of the language), and I picked up some more today from a metropolitan public library collection here. What sources do you recommend for editing the article? -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk, how I edit) 23:44, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I usually look to have sources on hand when I am making new changes to something. When I revert old edits, I look into the sources and then judge whether or not: 1. They're reliable, and 2. They contradict anything else said in any other sources.

In any case, I had some sources listed for further reading for one on certain dialects of English, but I took them down a long time ago. I could go retrieve them for you if you wish.

But as to the subject of the English language in the most general sense, I don't have any particular sources on hand at the moment that aren't already mentioned in the reference section of the article. Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 00:05, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Greenlandic Norse
I've replied to your question on the talk page, but forgot to ping you. (Not sure if adding the template in a subsequent edit works properly; I recall reading it only works if you add a sig in the same edit, hence this manual heads-up.) --Florian Blaschke (talk) 18:56, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for letting me know! Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 19:41, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

General English/American English thanks
Appreciate the acknowledgements. Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 01:29, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It's no problem. Things tend to get very stressful during the editing process far, far more than they should, and this can sometimes dissuade readers from getting involved in the project, or even drive editors to the breaking point. As such, I like to let editors know when they make (an) edit(s) that are steps towards (or even the makers of) better articles. Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 01:36, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Dialect words
Hello, Thank you for your interesting message arising from your work on the List of Cornish dialect words. I have contributed a fair amount to the list in the past amd keep it watchlisted but probably do not have much more to add.--Johnsoniensis (talk) 19:25, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

On Ilkla Moor...
Hi Tharthan. I have changed the translation of the song's title again, this time to "On Ilkley Moor Without A Hat". Please look at Talk:On Ilkla Moor Baht 'at for my rationale and please feel free to leave any comments / criticisms there. Very best wishes, --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 23:12, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Eastern New England English
Could you pls explain? Your edit summary seems to be saying almost the opposite of your edit. --Espoo (talk) 21:23, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Alright. My point is basically this: It was fairly well known that many of the traditional dialects of the Old South made the same distinction (one easy example of this in [relatively] modern times is Andy Griffith), not to mention that there are speakers of other dialects of American English who (idiolectally) lack the merger as well.
 * My concern was with the accuracy of the statement in the article. Perhaps we could find another way of phrasing the sentence? Tharthan (talk) 21:43, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Rhoticism
I still don't see what you think merry-marry-Mary has to do with rhotic versus non-rhotic. Whether or not a speaker merges merry-marry-Mary, all the words still have one thing in common among them: an [r] sound—one that isn't word-final. It has nothing to do with, when a word ends in V + $⟨r⟩$, whether the speaker has an [r] or not, and whether Japanese, in transcribing the word to katakana, incorporates the [r] or not. The comparison is being made between "bell" and "bear" (though it would have been more useful to compare "bale" and "bear"), not between Barry-berry-beary-bury. Largoplazo (talk) 04:06, 28 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Bear is /bɛr/ only in Marry-merry-merging accents so it doesn't make a minimal pair with bell in other accents, even if rhotic. So it was indeed a poor example. Nardog (talk) 12:54, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I wasn't aware that it's /bɛr/ in anybody's speech. The point being made in the disputed text is that the claimed transcription of "bear" into katakana, ベア be-a, doesn't end in ル ru as the claimed transcription of "bell" ベル be-ru does. The vowel, which isn't mentioned in the paragraph, is beside the point. I agree with your point about "bell" and "bear" not being a minimal pair. That's why, above, I recommended replacing "bell" with "bale". (I'm writing "claimed" because I do recognize that the bottom line is that the paragraph was unsourced. I'm taking issue only with the technical reason given for removing it.) Largoplazo (talk) 13:08, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
 * The disputed text was poorly phrased, and the words which the text suggests make a minimal pair do not actually make a minimal pair for any English speakers beyond those with the Mary-marry-merry merger. If (rather than the removed text) an alternative elaborative sentence were to be proposed, it might be of value to include such a sentence. Tharthan (talk) 21:36, 28 January 2024 (UTC)