User talk:ThatPeskyCommoner/Archive 8

Curses!
I put mother's name-tapes in "a safe and obvious place." Guess what? (Nope, no prizes being awarded here!) Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 16:38, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmmmm: still more likely to be findable than if she had put them away herself, perhaps? (I found a bag of windfall-apples-waiting-to-be-peeled-sliced-and-frozen which Mother had "tidied" away into the spin dryer. And her pocket-diary-cum-comfort-blanket, without which she feels totally lost, turns up under her pillow, down the side of every armchair, and on one occasion up her sleeve.) Good luck!  Pam  D  19:10, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The places where things get hidden never cease to amaze me! Of course, if mother found them, they could be almost anywhere by now!  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 20:11, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm going to order some more. And guess what will happen then :P Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 21:04, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yup! Found 'em!  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 23:52, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

a pretty flower

 * That's actually a baby triffid. See how it's looking at you hungrily? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 08:11, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Aww bless! Triffids make such cute pets ... hehe!  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 09:17, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!
Whooo-hoooo! Well done, y'all. My input was surely negligible; I will still try to remember to hunt down more sources for that stuff. Pesky ( talk  …stalk!) 09:18, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Waaaahhh! :o(
My neck is frightened. How can a single part of one's body be frightened? My neck flinches away from "the wrong movement", the slightest pressure, even thinking about some wrong movements, before anything even hurts or goes zap-tingles. I have a permanent cringe up there sniggering at me and saying "Look! I'm a time bomb!" Waaaahhhhh! [Pesky whinges...] At least mother is away for our first respite-care break in over a year, so I don't have to sleep with one ear open for a couple of nights. Pesky ( talk  …stalk!) 21:41, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm glad you got some respite sorted out. Has the doc sorted out you getting an op soon? *hug* Ooh Bunnies! Leave a message :) 22:50, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Respite much needed after over a year without a day off! Mother's at the place where my older daughter works - so she has a familiar (literally) face about.  No surgery date yet ... it does scare me, the combination of hypermobile intervertebral joints and nerves which are already compromised is potentially catastrophic. Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 10:07, 17 December 2011 (UTC)


 * What a relief you have some relief! Hugs to you!  I hope this break allows your neck to become a bit less reactive -- it makes sense that it's that way, though.  Its very protective of itself!  I have to note that I personally think that our bodies know how to "take care" of us when we are otherwise not able to ... whether deliberately (rough lifestyle) or due to things beyond our control (aging parents...)  Sometimes when we have too many stressors, somehow, our bodies take over and do just the thing (however painful or uncomfortable) to force us to deal with the other stressors.  I may be off the wall with this theory, but so far it works for me -- I'm a real B---h and healthy as a (proverbial) horse!  (Fatigued a lot, 20 pounds overweight, but otherwise healthy)
 * It's great that mother could go to the place where my daughter works! Having a couple of nights where we know we're not on-call, just waiting for the buzzer, has been good. Apparently mother spent quite a bit of her first night there "wandering" - had to be taken back to bed three or four times, but not by us!  The neck is just waiting for my ace neurosurgeon - surgery is the only fix, as the problem is strictly mechanical (nerve roots badly compressed at C4, C5, C6), but once he gets in there with the bone drill and bores out some space for the nerves, I should get some real improvement fast.  It's the fear that's worse than the pain.  Just ... if something goes wrong there, it can go so drastically wrong.  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 21:58, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Today's giggle - The Fiendish Cabal
Shamelessly kidnapped from Malleus's talk page for our entertainment. Confirmation of what we all secretly suspected? Pesky ( talk  …stalk!) 11:38, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

almost blunder
Almost created another one for you, I was about to comment on someone's inappropriate "personal attic;" alas, I caught it in preview before saving. Nobody Ent (Gerardw) 14:43, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * One of my favourite-evers was in my little brother's Prep school magazine - taken from an exam paper: "The Equator is a menagerie lion which runs round the middle of the world." Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 17:47, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Please, I just finished grading my college class's term papers -- some were almost that bad!  May I suggest a very special place for those who spell check without proofreading.  Too many people loose their battles, wars and livlihoods.  They also have bronze statutes made of them, or had their actions penalized by statues.  You get the picture...  it's beyond typos!   Montanabw (talk) 22:42, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Cookies
--WGFinley (talk) 22:12, 18 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Awww, bless! Thank you :o) (The best-ever thing about virtual cookies is that they have zero calorie content!)  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 22:34, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Heh! Pro-tips, anyone?
With someone who's so committed to their own POV that they either flatly refuse to glance at hard facts, or read them but seem incapable of comprehending said hard facts - what do you do? Just walk away? Not in the context of an article, particularly, just a general "life" thing. Scientific, medical, or otherwise. Pesky ( talk  …stalk!) 20:20, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * --Cube lurker (talk) 20:26, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not attempting any fights with anyone in any sphere at all. I think Bill Hicks did the greatest thing on the creation-vs-evolution argument, and of course there are all sorts of good, sound scientists attempting to deal with pseudo's and lunatic-fringeists and so on, all over the place. I suppose most of them get to the point where eventually they think "Why bother? The fundamentalists are never going to accept that dinosaurs were around more than 12,000 years ago."  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 20:46, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * --Cube lurker (talk) 20:53, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I know, don't mind me. I'm pretty much a stickler for evidence-based science, and so on. It still bugs me that our 'locals' keep on calling buckskin animals "dun", and then wondering why they get blue-eyed creams when they breed them together ... and blue-eyed cream, of course, is a "forbidden colour" and can't be registered even though its buckskin and palomino parents can be! Heh! A palomino stallion has to be gelded - but the buckskin with the identical same cream gene,  inherited from the identical same parent, is allowed to retain his "bits" and breed! There's so much guff talked about the cream gene; "Cream animals have weak feet" .... errrm, well, actually, they have stronger feet than a black animnal with four white socks, because cream legs have more pigment than white ones.  Not much more, true, but still more.  And cream animals are less prone to sunburn than tobiano animals.  But no, "cream animals get sunburn". Stuff the science, let's go with the folk tales.  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 20:56, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

P.S. The equine colour genetics people will know what I'm talking about. :o) this kind of stuff. And this. Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 21:13, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

I want one of these! Homozygous dun - turn out first crosses all 100% dun, and show 'em what blinkin' duns look like ... :P Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 21:47, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


 * LOL, that's a grullo and a half there. You will get some MAJOR assistance with your views from the American Quarter Horse folks, as they used to have the same rules about cremellos, but with DNA parentage testing, they had to get real about genetics.  Or, if you were a yank, someone forced to geld their Palomino could just sue the registry, they roll over and play dead here any time someone shakes a lawyer at 'em.  Unfortunately, the same does not seem to work with creationists.   Montanabw (talk) 22:52, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * That one's a genuine (Iberian) Sorraia - the whole lot are homozygous dun, homozygous black, homozygous no-agouti. And the movement is to die for!  Such lateral and longitudinal flexibility, and elevation, and power ... and quite  unbeleievably hardy, too.  I think they'd make an incredible first cross-out to a New Forester for a superb dressage animal.  Loads of people don't like that convex head shape - but it has that "classical" feel to it that comes out so strongly in the Andalusians, Lusitanos, Lipizzaners, etc. (In whose background, of course, the original stocks were influential.)  The thing that really bugs me about the locals is that they now officially recognise that their "duns" are, in fact, buckskins - but the name "buckskin" isn't available for registration - and despite them knowing that it's now the identical-same cream gene, they still have this ridiculous ruling that a palomino stallion is a no-no, but a buckskin one is just fine .... crazy! And they're just as idiotic about homozygous-pangare chestnuts (guess what, they fall under the "palomino stallion" umbrella .....).  I've explained and explained that pangare and cream are not the same thing, and that you can breed homozygous-pangare Haflingers together to your heart's content and never get a blue-eyed cream because there is no cream gene in the Haflinger gene pool, and the same applies to our double-mealy chestnuts over here.  But no, the "Holy Rules" aren't subject to reinterpretation in the light of science.  And you know the really scary thing ... these people sit on juries ... eeeep!  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 09:22, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Nightmarish when a "fair trial" consists of being judged by twelve of your peers people of untested-intelligence who are likely to have little concept of the value of science and no ability to separate reality from rumour! And if you should be so unwise as to mention the word "evolution" in front of a jury of Creationists, you're stuffed! Pesky ( talk  …stalk!) 10:14, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Have you seen our GA Sorraia? Dana did a bunch of work on that one, working with a breeder.   As for the rest, I fully support the right of folks to self-nominate for a Darwin award!  LOL!  Montanabw (talk) 05:16, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Strangely, I haven't even read it! I had some really interesting e-chats with Hardy Oelke some years back about the possibility of getting a nice Sorraia colt - as and when I have any funds, I shall definitely get one of those.  Just the right height for me :o)  And I soooooo approve of the Darwin awards ... lol!  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 09:50, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

well since you invited ...
c[~] ... I brought the beer .. now where's my hug? :-) — Ched : ?  20:23, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * lmao .. saw the reply on RfA talk .. can't think of a better way to go. :) — Ched : ?  20:29, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Massive mad-grandmotherly hug awarded to Ched :P Snufflecation is optional :o) Pesky ( talk  …stalk!) 20:31, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * P.S. If anyone who was feeling ratty is now laughing themselves to death, the deed has been done sufficiently. Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 20:33, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Thank you
...for your comment on my essay! Appreciate that. Yeah, it's long ... I keep adding stuff to it as I think of things. Maybe someday I'll make 100. :) Happy holidays to you! Antandrus (talk) 22:19, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It's one of the best essays I've come across, I think. Happy holidays to you, too!  I'm hoping to get back to some more "content" work after the New Year, but Real Life has this way of interfering with concentration!  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 22:25, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Granny hug, please
I'd like a granny hug, please. I think they're great. Heck, I'll hug anybody, anytime—and that's the gawds honest truth. Hugs make me happy and I like to be happy.

Anyhoo, I've been meaning to stop by and thank you for helping improve Wikipedia's social climate. You've done a great deal to help improve morale here at Wikipedia and I think you deserve a big thanks (and a hug), so please accept this small token of my gratitude. Things here at Wikipedia have been going down hill for a while, but there are those of us that truly believe in the project and also believe it should be an inviting and nuturing place to grow the next generation of new Wikipedians. You have done an outstanding job in that capacity and I thank you kindly for your efforts. I appreciate them and I know others do as well. Please keep up the good work as it means more to me than you can imagine. Thank you very much. - Hydroxonium (T•C• [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&limit=1&amp;username=Hydroxonium V] ) 05:42, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow, Hydroxonium - thank you! You have no idea how much stuff like that means to me (probably). [Silly old cow goes all teary-eyed].  You may have ad-lib granny-hugs, whenever you wish!  I first qualified as an instructor decades ago, then moved swiftly on to become an instructor-of-instructors.  Opening up new fields of exploration, challenge and achievement to either a younger generation, or to an older one which hasn't considered a particular field before, is one of the most rewarding and satisfying things that any human can do, I'm sure.  We can make WP a ether-zone-type place which can bring out the best in people, teach them things they never thought they could do, and so on.  One of the most amazing things about anonymity is that the highly-intellectual, genius-level, mature 14 year old is judged on his/her mental abilities, not on their calendar age. And those bright and eager youngsters will be the guys welcoming and teaching Wikipedians-yet-unborn.  Extra hugs to you (>**)> :P (yes, I'll hug almost anyone, too!)  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 09:03, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Rabbit for dinner!
Cuddles had her first rabbit today! It's amazing how a rabbit can just disappear into a snake ... Pesky ( talk  …stalk!) 23:25, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * O_o  HurricaneFan 25  —  23:32, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * She's about eight feet long! And has occasional "behavioural issues" - though she's getting much better now.  I had to encourage her to turn around in her (huge) tank in order to present the rabbit at a good angle; after some initial threatening posturing and reptilian swearing at me she realised that dinner was what was on offer, and her mood improved considerably!  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 23:36, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Have you tried horse meat? It is much better and healthier that rabbits.   Said a person who raised rabbits and had them as house pets. Bgwhite (talk) 03:49, 23 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, do try it. It's especially good raw, with soy sauce and wasabi.--Shirt58 (talk) 05:24, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * AFAIK, big snakes have to have whole food. Redundant horses in this area tend to go for lion food, to the kennels, or occasionally are sausageified ....  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 09:39, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Aww, not fair! You were supposed to be amused by my accidentally-on-purpose confusion about whether horse-flesh was being suggested as food for people instead of food for snakes. Bg, can you tell Pesky I'm not talking to her?--Shirt58 (talk) 10:17, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * [Pesky hugs Shirt58] (>**)> Goat meat is one of the healthiest, actually! And very, very nice - provided one doesn't cook it "dry". I remember with affection Flossieburgers, Flossages, Flosserole, and all the other variations of the (not) Dear, departed Flossie ... who made the (literally) fatal error of judgment of attempting to use her horns on a human!  Now that's vengeance for you!  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!)10:23, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Other Half was slightly horrified at my suggestion that Cuddles would provide an excellent disposal mechanism for the remains of SenileCat when he finally shuffles off this mortal coil. As far as I;m concerned, it makes no difference to me if said remains are consumed by worms or Great Worms - and it would save the cost of three weeks snake food ... but I expect I will have to respect the delicate sensibilities of other family members ;P

ZOMG! I've just re-read the "snakes have whole food" thing ... and visualised the Whole Food Shop including entire carcases of cattle, sheep, pigs, sharks ... Pesky ( talk  …stalk!) 10:37, 23 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Cuddles is just plain wrong as a name for an 8-foot snake. Strangles, squeezes or death grip maybe better names. We had rabbits that were very well trained. Nothing better than relaxing in a chair while petting a rabbit. As you know, my hatred of horses goes back to my childhood. Glue and horse meat are the only things horses are good for.  I showed my mom some of your horse videos.  If I remember right, some of the horses had a silver neckless type thing.  My mom was wondering what is was for. My mom just turned 70.  Would cuddles like to play with her?  I'd even split some insurance money with you. Bgwhite (talk) 10:51, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Bg, since I'm still in a snit with Pesky, can you ask her if she has read any of Marina Lewycka's books? I'm currently working on We Are All Made of Glue. --Shirt58 (talk) 11:11, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

@Bg, Cuddles is a wonderful name for her! It's a nickname, really ... dating from when she was a four-foot snake-child who you could wrap around your waist and use for a belt :P (Provided you didn't object to the possibility of getting needle-sharp little snakey teeth in your midriff if you frightened her ...) Her "posh" name is Sarabi. The 'necklaces' on the ponies are the hi-viz reflective collars they wear when out on the Forest, so they show up in drivers' headlights. Reflective collars aren't a guarantee against death-by-car, but they do help. Cuddles doesn't really like to play with anyone - but she'll tolerate being handled under strict conditions that the handler remains totally calm, absolutely unflappable, doesn't grip anywhere too tightly on her, make any sudden movements, or smell wrong. She cannot stand perfumed toiletries of any kind (boas have an incredibly sensitive sense of smell, and strong scents quite literally hurt them. Moderate sweat, on the other hand, doesn't bother them one jot).
 * @Shirt58 ... if the granny-hug is insufficient to settle you, I could always opt for the ultimate matriarchal weapon (as mentioned elsewhere) of suffocation-by-cleavage ... here goes ... (o)(o). And no, I haven't read any of Marina Lewycka's books. Yet.  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 11:55, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Fmmph. Mmph. Mphfph!--Shirt58 (talk) 13:20, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Well said
Well said in reply to my good wiki-friend Editor:Hydrox (above) and well said at The Arb Case. Is there a project afoot somewhere to clarify and stabilize our Wikipedia Community Civility Standard? If you know of one, please advise. Thank you. Buster Seven   Talk  12:34, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you! AFAIK, there is no project.  There needs to be! We currently have a festering sore, which needs to be lanced, debraded, and treated.  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 13:00, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes. I am aware of the on-going surgery. In fact, my early observations of MF in action was the genesis for my essay on civility. Its an example of something good arising from something bad which I hope is the case at ARB. Long term, if a project eminates from the uproar about "civility", we should create, in theory, what will be accepted in reality. Buster Seven   Talk  13:16, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think we should, here, be focussing on individual cases, ongoing or long past (or even future). Here are my own views! Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 13:36, 23 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Not involved but following the Arb/Request re a certain contributor. Liked your comments, and a good choice of quote from Denning. GraemeLeggett (talk) 19:21, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I've always felt that Denning summed this kind of situation up better than anybody else. Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 21:24, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Happy Christmas Everyone
Takes me back ... I remember when this one was released!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMK6eOueKNk&feature=related

And it's allowed here - it's from the Official Greg Lake YouTube channel ;P

"I wish you a hopeful Christmas, I wish you a brave new year All anguish, pain, and sadness Leave your heart and let your road be clear.

This version doesn't have quite the magic of the 70's original - but I couldn't find a public-release version of that ... go to YouTube and hunt it out for yourselves.

Pesky ( talk  …stalk!) 22:58, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Best wishes

 * If you knew the New Forest, you'd understand why I love it here! Five minutes' drive from the beach, five minutes' drive from the Forest edge ... no snow yet, I hope we have some in the new year. (Yup, I'm a big kid, I love snow!) Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 23:42, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Magi: Lost Kings or Aliens w/ GPS


Happy Holidays..--Buster Seven   Talk  07:12, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Notability (organizations and companies)
Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Notability (organizations and companies). Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Feedback request service. — RFC&#32;bot (talk) 11:16, 25 December 2011 (UTC) cba. It's Christmas - and my birthday! Pesky ( talk  …stalk!) 11:56, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

thank you PC
and I hope you and yours have a wonderful Christmas as well. :)  hugs :) — Ched :  ?  12:45, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!
Thank you - and to you (and yours), too. Pesky ( talk  …stalk!) 19:31, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Merry Xmas!
Aaahhhh, beautiful! I love snow - I'm a big kid :o) Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 09:44, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Stallion
I've brought the business at Talk:Stallion up at ANI.  Acroterion   (talk)   06:09, 26 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Many thanks, Acroterion. Pesky ( talk  …stalk!) 09:45, 26 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Dispute Resolution on Stallion article started. 83.78.3.62 (talk) 22:21, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks!
Hope you has a great day. All the Best.

Leaky Caldron  10:46, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It was good, yes. Looking forward to (with  any luck!) a quiet, restful day today.  Hope yours was wonderful, too.  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 10:48, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Merry Christmas and Happy Birthday
Merry Christmas.

Thanks very much for the nice Chirstmas note, Pesky. I hope you had a wonderful Christmas. I had a good one. Family, friends, food plus lots of laughs and good cheer.

It's your birthday too? Happy birthday. That means double the presents. . I hope you had a great birthday too. Best wishes to you and yours. - Hydroxonium (T•C• [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&limit=1&amp;username=Hydroxonium V] ) 22:15, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks! It was pretty good :o) Loads of new books to read!  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 11:42, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Christmas greetings
Thank you! And a wonderful/merry/peaceful (take your pick: any or all) Christmas to you too! --KFP (contact - edits) 23:52, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you :o) Christmas involved a little more drahmaz than I would normally hope for, but other than that it was fine!  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 11:41, 27 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Chin up, you done good!  Montanabw (talk) 00:31, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hehe! The last tirade was quite impressive; I think this person is now obsessed with the evil Pesky! I did my best, but without some kind of medication, I'm inclined to think that nobody is going to get anywhere with this poor, fraught, overwrought individual!  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 08:28, 29 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but which party required the medication! (Some days I don't know if I need a bottle in frontame or a frontal lobotomy!)   Montanabw (talk) 05:59, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I was thinking more of the other party, though I admit to self-medicating with Baileys throughout the relevant period! Christmas / New Year is always considered to be a sufficient excuse for said self-medication ;P  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 11:25, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Biography Gianfelice Rocca
With reference to the biography of Mr. Gianfelice Rocca, I have seen you added a tag for notability last october. Now, since I believe enough time has passed,  I suppose the contents have been accepted. If that is correct, I would ask you one  question: may I delete the notability tag? Thanks in advance for your answer. Lorendanza (talk) 19:50, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it was a "borderline" case in any event; nobody else has (yet) had any problems with it, obviously. I;ve removed the tag for you.  Of course, as and when there are any more really good independent reliable sources on him, it's a great idea to add those in to avoid any future potential challenges with it.  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 19:55, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

And in news just in from Tasmania...
The Mercury reports that Maggie58, the elderly corgi-cross that guards Grandma58 and Grandpa58s' normally placid ancestral manor in Hobart, got all discombobulated and confused, due to an Yuletide influx of adult children, grandchildren, and other assorted hangers-on.

No doubt with an eye on possible reportage in The Signpost, Maggie58 chose to slightly nip User:Shirt58's left calf, shortly before Boxing Day dinner. Hilarity ensued, as nurses, doctors and lawyers debated whether Shirt58 needed stitches. And then we ate dinner.

After a fine dinner and a four minute drive to the local casualty ward and 30 second wait in triage, even more hilarious was of course Shirt58's girly squeals as the wound was actually stitched up.

And in other news, apparently there is some sort yacht race and a rather popular art museum in Hobart. --Shirt58 (talk) 14:09, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Oops! Bad Maggie! Shirt58 was clearly suffering from too much blood in the alcohol-stream, therefore insufficient analgesia! Hope it's healing nicely now. Pesky ( talk  …stalk!) 11:27, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

A strongly worded statement
, and one with which I completely agree. There may not be much difference between us at all in our attitudes to civility, despite me not having a position in the civility police. ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 20:36, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * (>**)> Hugz! Forcible hugz, in fact ;P  I obsess about injustice.   It's one of the few things that can actually make me so angry that I want to shake people warmly by their throats, rip their fingers and ears out at the roots, batter them against the nearest wall, and hurl them off clifftops.  Contemptible, despicable stuff.  And my hackle-hairs are quite literally prickling-up as I type!  (Thinks: must self-medicate on some Baileys ... still have some left).  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 21:31, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * huzzah. read decimation, for "postcode lottery" Slowking4 ⇔ †@1₭ 21:49, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Pesky, Happy New Year. Hope you're well. Totally agree (although many don't), but do you think, looking back, that BD received equality of treatment? Rgds. Leaky  Caldron  21:57, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * For that really OTT edit summary - and yes, I appreciate that he was furiously angry - a 24-hour block was perfectly warranted. I think anyone could agree with that.  It would have been just 24 hours; no great shakes, really, just a wake-up call.  And he must, surely, have known that that one was out of order in anyone's book.
 * I really do think that any editor - regardless of their standing in the community - with such a long history of making belittling and demeaning comments in edit summaries really needs to be told that this is not acceptable. If I had the time over again, I would approach it differently, certainly.  My poor approach was because of a total inexperience in dealing with this kind of stuff; I'd never started anything similar in over 12,000 edits, and really didn't know the ropes. So, yes, I would have done it all differently.


 * I can't, on my own, "fix" (or even attempt to "fix") that kind of thing Wiki-wide - I'm only one person, there are only 24 hours in each day, and I have far too much stuff going on IRL to be able to devote the amount of time it would take to check up on absolutely every editor. And I wouldn't want to - that's not what I like doing. (I like, on the whole, avoiding conflict. I like doing new page patrol; I find it interesting and quite relaxing.  I like discovering hundreds of relative-newbies who actually want to write an article; I like having such an easy way of locating them, and I like leaving my help, tips, hints spiel on their talk pages to encourage them.  I like interacting with newbies who actually want to write. And I like writing, and copy-editing, and improving articles.  I wish Real Life circumstances would allow me to do more of it.)
 * I would like it if every single editor with a similar glitch is treated exactly the same - but ensuring that that happens couldn't ever, possibly be a one-person job. It requires the entire community, and the entire community needs a well-defined, well-thought-out civility policy in order to treat everyone equally. And it doesn't need to be verbose! It needs to be clear. And that needs to be done.  Ideally, not in drib-and-drabby changes to what we currently have, but a redo from start job, produced by a small number of people who can work together, and only once produced put to the community to ask them: "Is this clear enough?"  If it's clear enough, then it can be effectively set in stone because it won't need to be changed. The way policy pages are dealt with at the moment is just not effective.

Adding: people who want to mutilate and torture police officers come into three basic categories:
 * 1) Psychopaths who would be happy to torture and mutilate anyone who gets in their way
 * 2) People who break, or want to break, laws, from drunk-drivers to murderers, because the police get in their way and do "bad things" to them
 * 3) People who are, or are close to, victims of miscarriages of justice where part or all of the cause has been "bent coppers"

Of course there will always be some overlap between these categories in many cases, but on the whole (with a modicum of intelligence and experience) one can see which category people fit into. "Civility police" attacks, apart from the first two of these basic three categories, will stop once the civility policy is clear, unambiguous, and evenly applied. Pesky ( talk  …stalk!) 06:14, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

no case
Yes was basically stalking you as you commented on the case and noted this: User:ThatPeskyCommoner/Case_History, and wanted to tell you there is no "Pesky" case -- there was a BD case, settled appropriately. I told you at the time I though you made a mistake, but a good faith mistake in judgement is not wrong, it's just a mistake. (As I am way ahead of you on Arbitration clerk suggested strikeouts, I make 'em too.) At this point the BD thing should be past and over, and if there is lingering doubt on your part it is unnecessary and if there is lingering criticism by others then they need to get over their silly grudges, it's not your problem. Highly recommend being the other kind of duck. Nobody Ent 23:17, 4 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Aimed at me, "silly grudges"? Certainly hope not, Nobody, this was a friendly exchange with Pesky to assess where we both are in cases like the present one. If it was a little dig at me just admit it and kindly apologise, if not then I apologise in advance. Leaky  Caldron  23:26, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey guys, I'm cool with both of you, and presently in a state where I can think objectively about things better. Yes, I went about it wrongly - RfC/U would have been the appropriate venue, and probably could have waited a week or two as nothing was "on fire", so my venue was wrong (down to inexperience), and my timing was wrong (down to a combination of chronic pain and combined painkillers, with a smidge of natural "get on with the job" impulsiveness).  I've learned quite a bit from the experience, and I'm not (much) bearing grudges against anyone, just wanted to have a full and clear history somewhere, as I'd made the "details available on request" statement, so wanted to ensure that they actually were readily available if asked for.  I've no objections to a modicum of being stalked; there are very few skeletons in my cupboard, and I don;t mind their joints being pondered over!  In fact, I'd very much rather have the full history available so that anyone who actually wants to inspect the skeleton can look at the real thing, and not be dependent upon the Chinese whispers versions, or be lacking the end of the tale. (Or should that be "sacrum"?)
 * Also hiding in my subpages, to amuse you, is the Saga of the Meermin, the Notorious Prehistoric Zombie Elk, my own essay on civility, the huge benefits of OCD for Wikipedians, and, no doubt, a few things I've forgotten about! Pesky ( talk  …stalk!) 11:24, 5 January 2012 (UTC)


 * And aaahhh, but there was a case. I was (to quote someone else's words) "put through the wringer at AN/I", having been accused of "Borderline obsessive hounding and continued baiting", and many, many people took that accusation as gospel.  And it was a week of pure hell, with me very seriously quitting editing altogether, before that "admonishment" was struck. And I have yet to recover my previous motivation and faith, and still not sure if I'll ever be the same again.  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 12:03, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, there was a case, and many people piled on Pesky criticisms. The whole affair made me very sad indeed. I'm glad you're still around though. You're very kind-hearted and yet quite tough at the same time. And I don't mean physically tough before you start telling me about how many horses you can lift with one arm, I'm well aware you're built of steel. ;D Ooh Bunnies! Leave a message :) 13:11, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Ooh, Bunnies! (reminds me, must get another one for Cuddles ... ;P) I love you too :o) (>**)> have some megahugglesnuggles! I'm aiming to be back in IRC again soon, Real Life has been just as chaotic as usual. Mother has now (literally, as of this morning)  been diagnosed as "moderate to severe dementia of mixed origin" (combo of Alzheimers and vascular), which is actually good news, as it opens up the way to a different group of medications - she's just been prescribed Memantine.  She has now entered the occasionally-violent stage; we had a disagreement yesterday, and her response was to make a serious attempt to kick me in the face with both feet!  One of the disadvantages of  having Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome is when the person one is caring for, despite being in their eighties, can still almost effortlessly bring their knees up to their shoulders whilst sitting and perform a double-barrelled kick like a mule! I'm sooo glad that didn't connect - my poor heavily-compromised nerve roots would almost certainly have been damaged beyond repair. >oS I only have a few remaining niggles from The Case.  They're now on The Page.  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 13:29, 5 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh Pesky, what a time you've had of it. I hope that setting it all down has helped to get it clear and out of your system, though the scars will linger. As for Mother ... the idea of a fit and hyper-double-jointed (hadn't heard of that before) octagenarian with mixed dementia sounds pretty scary, hope you can get some new medication sorted out which will help her. And you. My own Mother only has "probable Alz." and an MMSE of 21 or 23 (depending whether the chap says "there's snow on the roof outside" before asking "what season is it?"!), and has been pretty stable on Aricept for about 10 years. Just no short term memory.   Was down in New Forest a few days after Christmas (Mother in respite home): lovely. Wandering back from station to hotel in the dark past the ponies. (And visiting umpteen family who forgot we were travelling by train and loaded us up with h-e-a-v-y presents. Ah well.)  Here's to a better 2012, in all the ways it needs to get better.  Pam  D  14:01, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The worst problem we have with mother is her almost total inability to follow simple instructions; she's so distractable, and the moment her attention wanders she has forgotten that she was even listening to someone, let alone what they were actually saying. She can be a little bit scary - she can switch from sweetness and light to red-head-temper in the blinking of an eye!
 * I wish I'd known you were in the New Forest area! "Wandering back from station to hotel" sounds as though it was Brockenhurst ;P  Lovely village, with a natural car-underbody-and-wheel-washing facility at the bottom of the high street.  You could have come over to ours and met our own home-based ponies - four boys of varying ages, all gorgeous Forest-bred pure New Forest ponies; living as nature intended in a mixed-terrain, mixed-vegetation, natural water, natural shelter habitat; unshod, unclipped, and unrugged (and hence very woolly and fuzzy in their winter coats) - and as happy and healthy as anything!  And three of the four are also very cuddly and loving - the fourth one is still semi-wild.  And you could have met our giant cats, the big dog, and the eight-foot boa constrictor!  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 14:17, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Thought for the day
I don't want to further muddy up the waters of the ArbCom case, but your comment here caught my eye. There is a distinction here, but I'm no sure it's properly drawn out by the "surface incivility" dichotomy. As I said to Lara on my talk page, I'm much more comfortable with being called a "fucking cunt" than I am with being called a "toxic personality"; the first I can shrug off, the latter is insulting. Maybe it's just the way I'm wired. Malleus Fatuorum 20:01, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey there! Yes, there's a distinction - some of the most intentionally annoying, riling, damnedest things can be done with sweetness-and-light wording. I'm just wary that there's a very human tendency to turn "Beware Greeks bringing gifts!" into "Beware anybody bringing gifts! They're probably Greek!"  I'm far happier with "bloody cow" than "sanctimonious saint".  And one of my various aliases in Real Life is Alpha Bitch - which actually makes me smile!  Only-on-the-surface civility reminds me of the worst type of new-age social worker - an "understanding" smile to your face, and the knife already sharpened, poised, poisoned, and waiting, for your back.  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 20:12, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd never say "sanctimonious saint", too much redundancy. How would you feel about "sanctimonious twat"? Not that I'm calling you either of course, just a point for discussion. There's clearly a line to be drawn here between commenting on another editor in whatever terms and commenting to another editor in whatever terms, which is why I think it's so important that Wikipedia gives serious consideration to producing a consistently merged version of WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA. Malleus Fatuorum 20:21, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe it's the time of year. Now I'm getting a bunch of flak.  Montanabw (talk) 23:00, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It might be. My wife's just bought one of those daylight lamps for her office on the recommendation of a friend; when I walk in there now the light is blinding, but she's convinced it's lifting her mood. Thank Christ for that! :lol: Malleus Fatuorum 23:13, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * A merger of WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA may be a way forward: a major issue such a merger would need to deal with is bullying, in which editors are intimidated from contributing. However, that also impinges on WP:CIR, as in some cases, editors contributions are criticized for genuine reasons of incompetence. It is a minefield. Geometry guy 02:51, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * We perhaps might broadly agree on what ought to be changed here with respect to the civility/npa policies, but we both also know that nothing can change here. That's the death spiral. Malleus Fatuorum 04:54, 6 January 2012

The time of year thing is a perfectly reasonable explanation. It's all to do with those serotonin/melatonin imbalances - been confirmed, verified, tested and re-tested for a long, long time now. And bright-enough natural or near-natural daylight helps tweak those imbalances into balance without the potential side-effects of SSRIs, which do the same job (selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors). From the chemistry, "E's" would also work, but, of course, not available on prescription ... lol! And those other little challenges, too.

Montana, as always, if I can assist in de-barbing the flak, I'll do my best. Malleus - within reason, you have my permission in advance to call me almost anything you like if you need to vent, and I'll take it as read that it doesn't necessarily mean the same thing, coming from you, as it might from someone else. On the whole, though, I'd appreciate it if you avoided words like sanctimonious, patronising, condescending ..... but "fucking stupid old woman" I could probably handle! Maybe it would be best if you always added a very obvious (>**)> hug at the end, so that other people can see we're cool with that stuff?

Geometry guy, you have some good points up there; all these things are related. As to ways forward - yes, it can be done. But it can't be done by "the community" - that's the death spiral way. It needs an official mandate to be given to small team of genuinely good writers who really understand the spirit of the thing, and have the ability to come up with a brilliantly-clear and impossible-to-wriggle-around civility/NPA policy, to do it. The only question to put to the community on it should be "Is this clear enough?" If we can get the spirit and the concept down as concisely, succinctly, and clearly (and ideally not tautologically ;P) enough, it should not be necessary to go into reams and reams of detail and explanation. "''Whatever the human mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve."

The answer is simple (all ambiguities intended). It's not going to be easy - particularly to get that official mandate - but it is simple. So many people draw no internal distinction between the easy and the simple; the simplest ethical total solution is almost always the best one.

What we need here is a principle-centred policy written up by principle-centred people. It is always the principle which is the most important thing. Pesky ( talk  …stalk!) 09:43, 6 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Just a quick note to say I really appreciated your comments here and elsewhere. I love the handle "Pesky", but you are evidently no commoner, in the experience and wisdom you have gained over many years. There may not be a death spiral, but Wikipedia faces many threats, including a slow decline. Geometry guy 01:08, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, but I am a commoner! I'm officially a Commoner, in fact! In the original, unsullied way - one who exercises rights of common to depasture (graze, turn out) livestock on common lands.  We even have an Aristo who is a Commoner, around here!  And thank you for your appreciation - I have a weird and mixed history, and have dabbled my fingers in many, many pies. I like variety! And experience - especialy wide-ranging interests over many years - turns out to be useful in so many other areas.  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 13:45, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

I've just called Malleus a name!
Malleus, you're a symptom! ;P

I don't know whether that makes you a sneeze, a gobbet of phlegm, a drug-induced euphoria, a violent attack of the runs, or a rash. I'm hoping it's not the rash, as I make a point of not making rash promises if I can help it!

I've finally got around to officially putting some input other than comments there. Pesky ( talk  …stalk!) 13:04, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Dream team
If you have ideas good Pesky, I think you should name them, either here or on the Arb board. Miracles do sometimes happen, the Arbs might take a liking to the plan. Will be intrigued to see who you select, though off for some dreaming of my own now, so G'night for the moment. FeydHuxtable (talk) 21:46, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll work up a team-suggestion, with the reasons, offline. It'll take me a little while to hunt for some people to fill the gaps I have at the moment, but I know where to go hunting for a few!  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 21:52, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * First thoughts and team-building foundational requisites are here. Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 13:38, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm truly ambivalent about your effort here. While it could helpful it won't be sufficient.
 * I think there's a common User:Nobody Ent/policy fallacy haven't written it yet! that inappropriate behavior indicates our policy pages aren't written well enough. Let's face it, some people are just clueless and no matter how well something is written editors aren't always gonna do the right thing. When a policy gets to 90 to 95% of perfect it probably isn't worth the effort to polish it anymore. (In other words, making policies FA isn't that beneficial.)
 * We own a 4500 kg sailboat. It can be moved by hand when next to a dock. But trying to shove it hard just hurts you -- what is needed is slow, steady pressure. Likewise, I think what's needed at Wikipedia is a critical mass of editors -- especially the supposed-to-be-example admin community repeatedly pointing out to each other "that's not cool." Not  with blocks and warning templates and SHOUTING -- that just makes things worse, (except for the incorrigible who need to be shown the door.)
 * I think trying to exclude editors from participating will undercut the effort because consensus is the vital component. Perhaps a clerked discussion format would work, however. Nobody Ent 15:23, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * We do need to look at alternative ways in which this could be worked. Part of the reason I'd like the team to have a large proportion of people who've proved they can write good-to-excellent content is that they have the ability to tighten this thing up to the most concise format which can get the whole message across, in the clearest language.  Part of the problem with so many of our policy pages is that they come into the category of walls of text. It deters people from the effort of really understanding them. Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 15:40, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Pesky, the team building essay looks really good. Maybe you could change the word coordinator to facilitator? Little things can make all the difference, and facilitator might fit in better with our collaborative approach rather than coordinator which fits better with more hierarchical organisations.FeydHuxtable (talk) 14:15, 8 January 2012 (UTC)