User talk:TheProfaneSalesmen

Lets fucking talk. TheProfaneSalesmen (talk) 00:48, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

August 2012
You have been blocked indefinitely from editing for being a trolling-only sock. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding below this notice the text, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. Floquenbeam (talk) 01:01, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Ah... I would like to request that other admins not snap-no on these requests again while we talk.

Assuming some good faith, for the moment, a brand new account does not normally come into being and immediately jump to a mildly profane and snarky comment on an WP:ANI discussion thread. It's exceptionally rare for that to happen. One would generally assume either that you're a troll or (assuming good faith, again) an existing relatively mature IP editor deciding to get an account, possibly the IP which was in that thread on ANI.

The totality of the picture is not black-beyond-redemption but it would help if you could explain yourself. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:16, 7 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I've restored talk page access, since you want to talk to him. George, to me, this is blatantly "black-beyond-redemption", but since I may go offline for the evening without much notice, feel free to handle this however you would like to, without asking my OK. --Floquenbeam (talk) 01:22, 7 August 2012 (UTC) p.s. You said on my talk page "it could also be the IP you were responding to deciding to get an account"; they already have one: User:Housewifehader. --Floquenbeam (talk) 01:24, 7 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks George. What do I need to explain? I can be mildly profane and snarky here right? Why did I go straight to AN/I you ask? Because I have been observing this place for some time now and I want to get involved. If you think I am the IP in the report, you are wrong, I am not. If you think I am a "relatively mature editor" you're right, I used to edit here as an IP several years ago (don't worry it wasn't banned or blocked). This is a bullshit block that should be lifted. How can I get blocked for one fucking snarky comment, I see this shit daily on this site from everbody from admins to IPs. TheProfaneSalesmen (talk) 01:27, 7 August 2012 (UTC)


 * How can Floquenbeam judge a sock troll by one fucking comment? Does one not need more proof than that to indef someone? TheProfaneSalesmen (talk) 01:30, 7 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Floquenbeam has been an admin for many years, as you should know if you've been around for a long time. Yes, we can and do make first-edit decisions to indefinitely ban users.  It's not the usual course of things, but it does happen.
 * Floquenbeam indicated that you aren't that IP editor a bit above, I was taking a guess but that's fine. It doesn't hurt you either way.
 * In terms of the profanity - If you want to be judged not a troll, we're going to want to see collaborative contributions. You had a point in your ANI contribution - it's not that controversial that sometimes people, sometimes regulars and sometimes even admins, make unsubstantiated (and sometimes wrong) assertions or accusations on ANI.  It's not a good thing, no.
 * The point gets lost in the message style, though. The combination of new account, jumps right into ANI, jumps right into someone else's incident with a lot of profanity, generally spells troll.
 * I get accused of being some sort of civility police around here from time to time, but I don't particularly care about profanity. What I do care about is editors acting like they respect each other and can work together cooperatively.  When they are collaborating and collegial all is good.  They can be very polite and yet politely abusive to each other, which is bad.  They can be profane and snarky, which generally degrades quality of communications even if you're not attacking other editors.  And they can be profane and snarky and attacking other editors, which gets you out the door quickly.
 * If you've been around you should have an idea about what level of communications is typical across the project. That would be preferable out in the project.  Here on your talkpage I don't care.
 * Being interested in article content rather than poking into fights on ANI initially would also help. This is not a "you must not do that", but if you want to be judged not-a-troll then you should do not-troll things, and jumping straight into ANI is trollish behavior.
 * Is this making sense?
 * If you can let me know what you intend to go work on here, now that you created an account, let's talk about that some.
 * Thanks. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:50, 7 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks George, you gave a good explaination. Are you saying that I need to create content in order to be allowed to participate at AN/I? Because I am not really the content creation type, I can't stand editing articles, I tried to before but I wasn't interested so I drifted away. I want to contribute at AN/I and I think my comment there wasn't out-of-line at all. If you are saying profanity will make me seem like a troll I get it, but I have watched people swear here for years with no punishment, so this seems kind of unfair to block me because only trolls use profanity, not true. I still say this block was bullshit trigger-finger crap and not justified in any way. I'm sure Floquenbeam is a good admin but he is not Nostradamus and he made a mistake tonight. Isn't accusing someone of being a sock without any evidence also frowned upon? TheProfaneSalesmen (talk) 02:12, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually there is little profanity at AN/I, though it does happen. It's a fairly clear red flag when it does, though that's not the same as "we block everyone who swears there".
 * The combination of brand new account and going to ANI and profanity is what triggered Floquenbeam's response, and would probably have triggered others'.
 * There's generally a sense that people who just hang around at the noticeboards and don't contribute to the encyclopedia content - even if that's administrative stuff on content like reviewing articles and the like - are not here to contribute "to the encyclopedia" per se. That's not going to win you friends among a lot of administrators and longtime users.
 * I don't see who Floquenbeam thought you were a sockpuppet of, ; they didn't say. Your behavior is suspicious, but not setting off any alarm bells so far in that sense.   That part does not currently worry me, though another administrator with checkuser permissions may come along and check (and if your prior IP usage was problematic, or you are socking, you're likely out the door again).
 * My primary concern now is whether you'll stay unblocked if I unblock you now. If you go back to ANI doing what you did earlier I forsee that happening.  I don't want to tell you "don't go back there" - I don't want to put some rule in place that you MUST do content edits, or some formula for balancing content with administrative discussions.  Most administrators would do poorly in comparison there.  But some interest in content would help.
 * Let me know what you think.
 * Thank you. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 02:42, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I am concerned by two things. One, no response for 24+ hours; Two, I received information indicating that you are, in fact, sockpuppeting, though you are not using both accounts at the same time.  It is against sockpuppet policy to use two separate un-publicly-linked accounts in Wikipedia administrative pages.  The other account has been doing that, though you didn't evidently use the two close by in time or on the same specific topics.
 * If you are not willing to respond and discuss and engage anymore, I'll give it another day, but will close the request as rejected. That's not a "no further discussion permitted", but this can't hang around unresolved forever.  Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 02:16, 8 August 2012 (UTC)