User talk:TheSandDoctor/Archives/2019/September

Mail delay
Per I sent you a test email to see if the problem is easily reproducible or intermittent. It was sent via Special:Email at 14:54Z and got my "own copy" about 45 seconds later. If you want to try sending me some tests I will log the arrival times and post them for you to pass to the tech you have been talking to. Jbh Talk  15:06, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I'd responded and gone back to bed haha. That message time traveled then....my inbox clocks it at one minute before you sent it. Will send you a test in a sec. -- The SandDoctor Talk 16:28, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 * 16:29:50 UTC (wikipedia clock) is time sent . One minute and still no copy. -- The SandDoctor Talk 16:30, 15 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Got my copy 1 minute ago. — The SandDoctor Talk 16:37, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 * As of now I have not received any email from your account. Although I did get the email notification of your ping on earlier today so Wikipedia email is coming through. I also got the on-wiki notification that the mail was sent. Odd... Jbh  Talk  19:29, 15 September 2019 (UTC)


 * That is odd. Time for a phabricator ticket I guess? I am out at the moment, but will do one when I can (if you think so). — The SandDoctor Talk 19:55, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes. I'd say so. The email still has not arrived. It is not in spam. I tried sending myself an email a few minutes ago and I have seen neither the original nor copy but I am not sure if that is supposed to work in the first place. Jbh  Talk  20:41, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I have logged a ticket (phab:T232966)...and removed my double signatures. I didn't realize that the mobile app now signs for you...huh. -- The SandDoctor Talk 04:34, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I will put the ticket on my list. Jbh  Talk  05:22, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
 * , what do you mean by your list? Just a list of tickets you watch or? (Just curious if this is a phab feature I didn't know about. I already subscribed you to it when I created the ticket as I figured that you would be interested.) -- The SandDoctor Talk 05:52, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Nope no cool feature. Subscribing was all I meant and I just could not think of the word. Thank you. Jbh  Talk  06:00, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

Wikiproject Military history coordinator election nominations open
Nominations for the upcoming project coordinator election are now open. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! Voting doesn't commence until 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the coord team. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:38, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Tech News: 2019-36
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * You can use the new termbox interface if you edit Wikidata on a mobile device. This is to edit labels, descriptions and aliases easier on the mobile pages.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki has been deployed during the last week.
 * The previously announced change of positions of the "Wikidata item" link on all wikis has been rollbacked due to unexpected cache issues.
 * The limit for rollbacks has been increased from 10 to 100 rollbacks per minute.
 * The advanced version of the edit review pages (Recent Changes, Watchlist, and Related Changes) now include two new filters. These filters are for "All contents" and "All discussions". They will filter the view to just those namespaces. However the "All discussions" filter does not include pseudo talk pages, like discussions that are in the Project: or Wikipedia: namespaces. But it will include changes happening on Project talk: or the Wikipedia talk:.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).
 * When you log in, the software checks your password to see if it follows the Password policy. From this week, it will also complain if your password is one of the most common passwords in the world. If your password is not strong enough, please consider to change your password for a stronger password.

Meetings
 * Octicons-sync.svg Octicons-tools.svg You can join the technical advice meeting on IRC. During the meeting, volunteer developers can ask for advice. The meeting will be on at 15:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes
 * You will be able to read but not to edit Wikidata for up to 30 minutes on September 10 at 05:00 (UTC).
 * You will be able to read but not to edit some mid-sized wikis for up to 30 minutes September 17 at 05:00 (UTC). You can see which wikis.
 * You will be able to read but not to edit some mid-sized wikis for up to 30 minutes September 24 at 05:00 (UTC). You can see which wikis.
 * You will be able to read but not to edit Wikimedia Commons for up to 30 minutes on September 26 at 05:00 (UTC).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.  09:07, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – September 2019
News and updates for administrators from the past month (August 2019). Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg Bradv • Chetsford • Izno
 * Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg Floquenbeam • Lectonar
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg DESiegel • Jake Wartenberg • Rjanag • Topbanana

CheckUser changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Callanecc • LFaraone • There'sNoTime

Oversight changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Callanecc • Fox • HJ Mitchell • LFaraone • There'sNoTime

Technical news
 * Editors using the mobile website on Wikipedia can opt-in to new advanced features via your settings page. This will give access to more interface links, special pages, and tools.
 * The advanced version of the edit review pages (recent changes, watchlist, and related changes) now includes two new filters. These filters are for "All contents" and "All discussions". They will filter the view to just those namespaces.

Arbitration
 * A request for comment is open to provide an opportunity to amend the structure, rules, and procedures of the 2019 English Wikipedia Arbitration Committee election and to resolve any issues not covered by existing rules.

Miscellaneous
 * A global request for comment is in progress regarding whether a user group should be created that could modify edit filters across all public Wikimedia wikis.

Discuss this newsletter

Subscribe

Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:37, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Question
Was there a consensus I missed somewhere regarding changes to WP:INDEFRIGHTS? I don't presume to understand the detailed rationale for why we made that policy to begin with, but surely there is one by someone who has dedicated more thought to the subject than I have. G M G talk  13:00, 10 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Hello, thank you for reaching out. WP:INDEFRIGHTS was not something I was aware of off-hand and is not a policy nor a guideline. The majority I modified were either socks (or masters), locked, and/or banned. Rights don’t make much sense there/in those cases, considering that those instances signify a loss of community trust, which is mostly in line with what was said at the RfC. It is also worth noting that a good chunk have been blocked for years as a result of the above conditions. To a much lesser degree, these also bloat statistics of how many users have a specific user right (which I think would logically infer "who can use it & has the position of trust to actively use it").


 * I will pose another RfC (reworded) either sometime this week or this coming weekend (whenever I get the time needed) as it has been a bit over 7 years since the last one and some clarity on some cases would probably be beneficial. In the meantime, I won't touch anymore cases. Does that sound OK, GMG? -- The SandDoctor Talk 15:12, 10 September 2019 (UTC)


 * What you post the RFC let me know so I can oppose it, as I consider what you're doing actively damaging, with no obvious benefit. Since these editors are blocked, removing permissions has no actual impact in terms of their ability to edit Wikipedia. What it do is generate an automatic email to the user whose rights you're removing, which at best is annoying to the blocked editor and makes them feel "I left, but they're still hassling me!", and at worst agitates someone to the extent that they go back to disrupting Wikipedia. &#8209; Iridescent 15:39, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I mean, I'm not super emotional about it. I'm not sure I feel that it's worth the time in removing them, but I've not got any hurt feelings over the issue. Just that if you want to do that en masse, you may want to discuss it first for anyone who does feel strongly about it. Yes, WP:INDEFRIGHTS is an "informational page", but it's pretty widely followed as a norm.   G M G  talk  15:40, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

I agree with Iridescent's comment above and had much the same reaction (although I didn't know about the automatic e-mails). Also, in particular, it is problematic to remove an editor's extended-confirmed status unless there's a very specific reason to do that, since that status results automatically based on number of edits and time on the project, rather than admins' discretion, and there is no obvious way of requesting it back if the editor is allowed to return. Thanks for your consideration. Newyorkbrad (talk) 07:44, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I am in the process of reversing my actions in all cases. Damage to the project was not my intention and troubles me as well. My apologies. -- The SandDoctor Talk 12:54, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
 * The case of KB3035583 is an interesting one. Special:Contributions/NCWP had rollbacker removed as part of the block, KB3035583 is a suspected sock who has rollback. Do you think that it should be removed in this case? -- The SandDoctor Talk 12:56, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
 * No worries. In all the P&G on Wikipedia, we've got no policy on people not being allow to make mistakes.  G M G  talk  12:57, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for considering this. In doubtful cases or in cases where the editor left the project long ago, what's done is done and at this point maybe leave things where they are at this point if you've already removed the rights. I trust your discretion in a case like you describe where there was a conscious prior decision to remove the rights. Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 13:00, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I have reversed the majority of my actions (most users were fairly "recent" - within past year or two-ish). The ones that I left in effect were banned users, locked accounts, or the eldest of the cases where the account was blocked (and inactive) for multiple years. I will not do something like this again without some form of consensus (consensus can change over time, afterall). Anyways, my apologies for the error. I will still publish the RfC (relating to the rights of banned users) as it still seems like a question worth asking (2012 was too broad a question IMO), regardless of result. Please let me know if there is anything else needed regarding this. --Best, The SandDoctor  Talk 14:57, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
 * RfC started regarding the user rights of (site) banned users. I have pinged you on the page itself, but per request I am also posting here. . -- The SandDoctor Talk 20:25, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

New Page Review newsletter September-October 2019
Hello ,

Instead of reaching a magic 300 as it once did last year, the backlog approaching 6,000 is still far too high. An effort is also needed to ensure that older unsuitable older pages at the back of the queue do not get automatically indexed for Google.
 * Backlog

A proposal is taking place here to confirm a nominated user as Coordinator of NPR.
 * Coordinator

Why I Hate Speedy Deleters, a 2008 essay by long since retired, is still as valid today. Those of us who patrol large numbers of new pages can be forgiven for  making  the occasional  mistake while  others can learn from  their 'beginner' errors. Worth reading.
 * This month's refresher course

Do bear in mind that articles in the feed showing the trash can icon (you will need to have 'Nominated for deletion' enabled for this in your filters) may have been tagged by inexperienced or non NPR rights holders using Twinkle. They require your further verification.
 * Deletion tags

Please be sure to look for the tell-tale signs of undisclosed paid editing. Contact the creator if appropriate, and submit the issue to WP:COIN if necessary. WMF policy requires paid editors to connect to their adverts.
 * Paid editing


 * Subject-specific notability guidelines' (SNG). Alternatives to deletion
 * Reviewers are requested to familiarise themselves once more with notability guidelines for organisations and companies.
 * Blank-and-Redirect is a solution anchored in policy. Please consider this alternative before PRODing or CSD. Note however, that users will often revert or usurp redirects to re-create deleted articles. Do regularly patrol the redirects in the feed.

Regular reviewers will appreciate the most recent  enhancements to  the New Pages Feed and  features in the Curation  tool, and there are still more to  come. Due to the wealth  of information  now displayed by  ORES, reviewers are strongly  encouraged to  use the system now rather than Twinkle; it  will  also  correctly  populate the logs.
 * Not English
 * A common issue: Pages not in English or poor, unattributed machine translations should not reside in main space even if they are stubs. Please ensure you are familiar with WP:NPPNE. Check in Google for the language and content, and if they do have potential, tag as required, then move to draft. Modify the text of the template as appropriate before sending it.
 * Tools

Stub sorting, by SD0001: A new script is available for adding/removing stub tags. See User:SD0001/StubSorter.js, It features a simple HotCat-style dynamic search field. Many of the reviewers who are using it are finding it an improvement upon other available tools.

Assessment: The script at User:Evad37/rater makes the addition of Wikiproject templates extremely easy. New page creators rarely do this. Reviewers are not obliged to make these edits but they only take a few seconds. They can use the Curation message system to let the creator know what they have done.

is now patrolling certain categories of uncontroversial redirects. Curious? Check out its patrol log.

Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:15, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Milhist coordinator election voting has commenced
G'day everyone, voting for the 2019 Wikiproject Military history coordinator tranche is now open. This is a simple approval vote; only "support" votes should be made. Project members should vote for any candidates they support by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September 2018. Thanks, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:37, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

Clarification of ECP of User:TheSandDoctor/userpage/bio
Could you be so kind as to explain why you ECP'd this page? It doesn't seem to meet the criteria you cited ("User pages and subpages may be protected upon a request from the user, as long as a need exists—pages in user space should not be automatically or pre-emptively protected.") or the criteria for ECP. Buffs (talk) 22:25, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Certainly! User:TheSandDoctor/userpage/bio was split from User:TheSandDoctor (which is under the same protection) to clean up and modularize the source view a bit. As such, I had it logically "inherit" the same protection levels as its target. Having key user pages and their components protected is a fairly common practice (as an example, Xaosflux has also performed it for two of my bots) and something that has been on my user page for over a year now. Though, I will note that ECP is slightly more unusual and full protection is more common in these instances. The reason I selected ECP over full protection was to allow experienced non-administrators to still edit should they notice a typo etc (in case of bots, so that they be can disabled quicker if things go awry) and because it is less severe than TE. Additionally, user pages being sysop move protected is also fairly common and enacted on my user page as well.
 * I see that you have started some discussions regarding ECP and will watch with interest. Should adequate consensus one way or another be developed through those, I will certainly adjust accordingly. Thank you for asking and (indirectly) bringing the ongoing ECP discussions to my attention. -- The SandDoctor  Talk 05:20, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I guess my question is why ECP should apply? It doesn't seem to fit the criteria in WP:ECP. Buffs (talk) 22:22, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Respectfully requesting a followup. Buffs (talk) 15:49, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Apologies for the delayed response, I was offline all of yesterday (in my current timezone, at least). I have decided to move the contents of that particular page back to my user page as it is easier to watch in a centralized location. I have now deleted User:TheSandDoctor/userpage/bio since it is no longer used. As of a few days ago, my user page is also unprotected. To address your specific second question, I considered there to be adequate need at the time (which still exists for bot control panels), but have re-assessed and recategorized my other userpages. None of my/this account's userpages remain ECP protected. I will still watch the discussions mentioned above with interest.
 * As an aside, I saw on an older version of your user page that you are (or at least were as of 2011) a captain in the USAF. I have met colonels (CAF) and Canadian Coast Guard captains, but must admit that I've never met an air force captain in any capacity (on or offline). You're a CompSci graduate to boot (my field of study). Pleasure to meet you! . -- The SandDoctor Talk 21:13, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
 * No prob. I appreciate the clarification/update. :-) Buffs (talk) 15:15, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Wikiproject Military history coordinator election half-way mark
G'day everyone, the voting for the XIX Coordinator Tranche is at the halfway mark. The candidates have answered various questions, and you can check them out to see why they are running and decide whether you support them. Project members should vote for any candidates they support by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September 2018. Thanks, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:37, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * I didn't see this until just now. Thank you very much, ! -- The SandDoctor  Talk 05:23, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Tech News: 2019-40
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * Last week's Tech News had delivery problems. Some did not get the newsletter. Some got it more than one time. The problem where some pages got it three times should now be fixed.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).

Meetings
 * Octicons-sync.svg Octicons-tools.svg You can join the technical advice meeting on IRC. During the meeting, volunteer developers can ask for advice. The meeting will be on at 15:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes
 * The Wikimedia Foundation Community Tech team is working on a watchlist expiry feature. This means you can put things on your watchlist for a period of time instead of forever. They are looking for feedback on the questions they have.
 * Special:Contributions will get the standard OOUI look. This makes it easier to use on mobile and makes it look like other  pages. There is a script you can use to make the form smaller if you want to.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.  16:51, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

Drama
Sorry for the ping. If you're like me, the last thing you want is to receive another ping related to this stupid drama. I guess there's always Special:Preferences/Notifications, where you can blacklist individual editors from sending you pings. That's an annoying solution, though, because you have to keep adding new editors as they pop up. Once someone withdraws from a conversations and says they don't want to receive any more pings, they shouldn't receive any more pings from that conversation. Actually, I'd be surprised if there isn't a sentence that says that somewhere in one of English Wikipedia's hundreds of policies. The problem is finding it... NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 07:30, 29 September 2019 (UTC)