User talk:TheTinman

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July 2009
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia!

I hope that I don't seem unfriendly or make you feel unwelcome, but I noticed your username, and I am concerned that it might not meet Wikipedia's username policy for the following reason: Your username is promoting or advertising TM technologies (http://www.tinmantech.com/index.php). Please consider changing your username to something that is non-advertising.. After you look over that policy, could we discuss that concern here?

I'd appreciate learning your views, for instance, your reasons for wanting this particular name, and what alternative username you might accept that avoids raising this concern.

There are several options available to you:
 * We can talk about it, here.
 * If we can't resolve this on our own, we can ask for help through Wikipedia's dispute resolution process, such as requesting comments from other Wikipedians. Wikipedia administrators usually abide by agreements reached through this process.
 * You can keep your contributions history under a new username. Visit Changing username and follow the guidelines there.

Wizard191 (talk) 13:39, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Provided that user:TinmanTech is "Kent White, Founder & President" of TinmanTech and the account isn't shared around inside the business, then I wouldn't see a problem with this username. Obviously a note clarifying this on user:TinmanTech would save a lot of potential confusion. Our policy isn't against usernames associated with businesses, they're to maintain personal accountability by avoiding "group accounts". Andy Dingley (talk) 14:00, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Technically I could report this name to UAA and get the account blocked per WP:ORGNAME, because the policy states: "Explicit use of a name or url of a company, group or product as a username will result in your username being blocked." However, I feel that this user is trying to productively contribute to Wikipedia, so I don't want to do that. Instead I would rather just see this person change usernames. Wizard191 (talk) 14:14, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi Andy & Dustin. I'm Renee and I work for Kent White at TM Technologies which is the company that Kent White owns. I am the person who was responsible for choosing the name "TinmanTech" so I apologize if this created a problem. I wanted to use the username "Tinman" (as Kent is known around the metalworking education circles by this nickname). But the user name "Tinman" wasn't available so I chose TinmanTech (seemed logical). We'd be happy to change the name if it's a problem. We would like to find some way to include the name "Tinman" as Kent is widely known by this name, and as one of the leading experts on metalworking and welding, and the nick-name immediately lends credibility to what he posts (people who can't remember the name Kent White will actually look for "The Tinman" when they search for his articles). Kent is VERY committed to metalworking education, and sees Wikipedia as a wonderful resource for people looking to find go general information. He hopes to post many informative articles on metalworking, welding, etc. on  Wikipedia over the next few months.  Anyway, our intention is to be cooperative. Thank you for your guidance. If we are doing anything wrong it is only because we are just posting for the first time and do not understand all the rules as yet!  Thank you for your help and suggestions.  Renee  p.s. what's a "group account?" (sorry for our ignorance) User:TinmanTech (talk) ````


 * There's scope for interpretation there and your more stringent view is probably more robustly defensible than my own more lenient one. However that policy quote is in relation to "promotion" of the business, and I'm not even seeing this as promotion. Anyway, it's all moot - move down the page. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:54, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * A "role account" is an account used by more than one person, especially one which represents a collective entity such as TM Technologies. Only individual human beings can have accounts here. So Renee the human being could be an editor here, but "TinmanTech" cannot. (And of course if you, Renee, wanted to edit here, you'd be advised not to insert links to TM Tech stuff, for the reasons explained in the template and links below this note.) -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  16:12, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

If you have a close connection to some of the people, places or things you have written about, you may have a conflict of interest. In keeping with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred from the tone of the edit and the proximity of the editor to the subject, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you should avoid or exercise great caution when:
 * 1) editing or creating articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with;
 * 2) participating in deletion discussions about articles related to your organization or its competitors; and
 * 3) linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Spam).

Please familiarize yourself with relevant policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, verifiability of information, and autobiographies.

For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have conflict of interest, please see our frequently asked questions for organizations. For more details about what, exactly, constitutes a conflict of interest, please see our conflict of interest guidelines. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  16:12, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Your account has been blocked from editing Wikipedia because it appears to be mainly intended or used for promotional purposes. Please read the following carefully.

Because Wikipedia does not allow any form of spam or other promotion of people, products, companies or other groups (even non-commercial or charitable ones). Using Wikipedia for such purposes will result in the blocking of the account involved. Please read FAQ/Organization and Conflict of interest for our policies about this.
 * Why can't I edit Wikipedia?

In addition, user accounts are for individuals only, not for companies or groups or other collective editing. Your username should reflect this. Usernames that appear to be promotional (such as those that make reference to a company or product) violate our username policy and are typically blocked to enforce that policy.


 * What can I do now?

If you have no interest in writing about some other topic than your organization, group, company, or product, you will not be allowed to edit Wikipedia again. Consider using one of the many websites that allow this instead.

If you do intend to make useful contributions about some other topic, you must convince a Wikipedia administrator that you mean it. To that end, please do the following:


 * Add the text below this message box.
 * Replace the text "Your reason here" with your reason to be unblocked. In this reason, you must:
 * Tell us what new username you want to use. Please make sure that your new username does not violate our username policy and check that it has not already been taken (click here to search).
 * Convince us that you understand the reason for your block and that you will not repeat the edits for which you were blocked.
 * Describe in general terms the contributions that you intend to make if you are unblocked.

If instead you believe that you have been blocked by mistake (i.e., you have not in fact been using Wikipedia for promotional purposes), please write below this message box and replace the text "Your reason here" with the reason why. See also Appealing a block for more information. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  16:12, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

A Modest Proposal...
Let's ruthlessly hunt down every professional and skilled contributor of content and ban them indefinitely from Wikipedia. After all, we've got to keep this place safe for rap group discographies and pokemon.

Really not impressed with the admin actions here. 8-(

Andy Dingley (talk) 17:15, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * So what would you suggest we do about the role-account and COI/advertising-Kent-The-Tin-Man-White issues, Andy? I'm trying to be fair to Renee here, who'd doing what her boss told her to do; but we're not here to advertise TM Tech and its owner. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  17:29, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * How about what seemed to be happening already, just a few paragraphs up the page? This block in addition was nothing more than a WP:BITE for the sheer hell of it - they were already talking quite amicably about how we sort things out, so everyone gets content where we need it and no-one has to break any policies.


 * Where's the problematic promotion? I'm seeing them adding a bunch of good WP:ELs. I haven't checked their edit history, I'm coming to this from my watchlist and a substantial overlap with the topic between my past edits and theirs, but there's nothing in there that raises flags that needed anything more than a little pleasant introduction to a new editor. Maybe there's a vast spam article somewhere, but it's news to me - there isn't even a user page.


 * WP:COI is an issue, and it seems like the only real one. Username gets changed (block it for tidiness if you like afterwards, but doing it post haste is just rude). Role / group accounts just needs a pointer to the policy. Spam hasn't happened where I've seen it (just read my last edit logs - there are half-a-dozen articles on there where I whack the same spamlinks twice a day, but this isn't it).


 * So if these are good WP:ELs and good book refs, then let them be posted and let the community of interest to those articles decide if they're worth keeping. user:Wizard191 has been doing a bunch of good Wikignomery around these articles and he'd probably get to them before I did. Otherwise even a user with serious COI risks (which this isn't) has previously been encouraged to note them on talk: pages and see if anyone else wanted to move them over - which I have no doubt editors would do. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:50, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

TheTinman
Let's try this again...

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome!
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * Tutorial
 * How to edit a page
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style

I see you've already met WP:COI and WP:ORGNAME...

Andy Dingley (talk) 21:46, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Unblock request
If the user is willing to read WP:COI, WP:ADS and WP:NOSHARE, and promise to abide by these policies, I don't see why they cannot now be unblocked since the username issue has been resolved. Shereth 21:59, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Has this ever seriously been in question? 8-(


 * Worth noting though, the user will have to add an unblock template again to request this, as I doubt it would happen automatically otherwise. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:43, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * In a way I'm hinting to the user that if they explicitly agree to abide by these policies and request an unblock, I am willing to grant that request :) Shereth 15:04, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * We've resolved this issue by having the account set up properly. I do want to thank the reasonable people who did not "Bite the head off the Newbie" (thank you ie. Wizard191 and Andy Dingley. You were both helpful and kind.) It seems Orange Mike really has it in for the uninitiated. (or perhaps his caffeine intake is just too high). TinmanTech (talk) 14:56, 26 July 2009 (UTC)