User talk:The Emperor's New Spy/Archive 5

Joanna of Pfirt
Hello! I've noticed you created an article on the Austrian consorts. Shouldn't Joanna of Pfirt be in it? She was wife of Albert II, Duke of Austria and was alive when her husband inherited th Duchy. Should she be included?--David (talk) 13:23, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks a lot for reminding me. I edited it over a while back.--Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 03:53, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I don't quite know about this family. I don't think thy were pretenders because they weren't of blood relation to Napoleon. In France and Italy, there are stronger claims to the thrones rather than Napoleon, since he defeated them but had little royal blood of his own. In France the House of Bourbon has a much stronger claim. The same in Italy, the House of Savoy has just as much of a claim. How the Breton consorts coming?--David (talk) 09:38, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

If you're going to create a list, you should add it to the Duchy of Brittany, that's were the list of dukes is. Sorry can you handle this one alone? If find it really hard using a wikitable. Sorry--David (talk) 10:21, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I known there is already a list in the Duchy of Brittany. But I was thinking if you can seperate it from that article, created a seperate article, and expand a little on it and put in some more history about the position and the transaction of each dynasty. Just make it in a list format, no need for a wikitable. I'll come in and redecorate it with a wikitable when I have time. I know your good at medieval French history, and I know almost nothing about Brittany. I not sure if you know French but can you see the French Wikipedia's list. --Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 17:44, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

The list in french isn't any good. It is just like the one in english just it is seperated into dynasties. It has a family tree at the bottom that shows the links of all the dukes of brittany. You don't need much information to create the list. I'm sorry for sounding so demanding but is it possible we could have a page the Bosnian consorts, I know that Surtsicna would help you with that. I am good with french history but not really Brittany, there has really been much for me to do in that section of wikipedia. Cheers--David (talk) 17:54, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I guess it can't be helped. As for the Bosnian consorts, isn;t there already a list here?--Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 18:53, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Hello, I'm back from my holiday. I see you've been busy, the reason I created Katherine of Bosina, with Countess of Cilli on the end is because there was more than one. Why have have you changed Katherine to Catherine. Cheers--David (talk) 10:58, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I changed Katherine to Catherine for consistency; Catherine is more commonly used for princesses (Catherine of Aragon, Catherine of Alexandria, Catherine of Braganza, Catherine of Valois, Catherine of Austria, Catherine of Navarre, Catherine I of Russia, Catherine II of Russia, etc). Surtsicna (talk) 11:10, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

I didn't change it to Catherine by I probably agree with Surtsicna on the move since Katherine is used in only British personells, like Katherine of Lancaster. --Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 16:53, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Hello! I see you've been very busy. I have seen your article on the consorts of Luxembourg. Are you going to add the wives of the Counts of Luxembourg? Also wasn't Camilla Martelli Grand Duchess of Tuscany by her marriage to Cosimo I (she was his second wife)--David (talk) 19:53, 20 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I am going to include the countesses but the trouble is that the old list of Luxembourgian counts, dukes, and grand dukes didn't include the counts for some reason. But I probably can find it on other language wikipedias.  As for Camilla Martelli, I didn't create that list, and I haven't check it over either.  You should ask User:Jack1755. --Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 03:33, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * PS: Can you start a new section everytime you start a new subject on my talk page. Thanks.--Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 03:36, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Princess Maria Adelgunde of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen
Your majesty, an article I recently created, Princess Maria Adelgunde of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen, has been nominated for deletion here: Articles for deletion/Princess Maria Adelgunde of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen. Please take the time to weigh in and stop its deletion. Thanks again for all your wonderful contributions to Wikipedia! --Caponer (talk) 13:03, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't call me that. I the Her Majesty's spy not a majesty myself.  But I think it should be kept. I encounter problems like this before and I think your safe.--Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 18:40, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Nice Job!
Thanks, Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy! I intend to create a list of Florentine consorts. I don't know vey much about the Margravines though. -- Jack1755 (talk) 18:09, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Maria of Bohemia
It seems to be a good start for someone who isn't good at writing biographies. I create pages in that area, you may have seen some of them like: Judith of Habsburg, Viola Elisabeth of Cieszyn, Ludmila of Bohemia and my most recent Kunigunde of Bohemia. I've never remembered seeing Maria's entry, I think I remember her in the list of Bavarian consorts. I believe you want to start an article on the Margravine's of Meissen. Do you know anyone else who knows anything about them? Because there is a tapestry with some of the Margraves and their wives but I am looking for one in particular about Frederick II, Margrave of Meissen and his wife Matilde of Bavaria. Frederick's father and his first wife had one and so did their son wife his wife do I am trying to find a part of the tapestry if there is with Frederick and Matilde on it, do you know someone who could help me find it? Thanks--David (talk) 10:15, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

I found another on from another relative as well --David (talk) 10:23, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry I don't anything about that. --Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 10:31, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't know about the others, but the one which includes John of Bohemia and Charles IV, Holy Roman Emperor is just the House of Luxembourg. If you don't mind me asking, when you create a list you use new images of the consorts which never feature in the articles, are all of those images in Wikipedia Commons? Like the one of Margaret of Brabant in the list of luxembourg consorts.--David (talk) 12:00, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

List of Tuscan consorts
Sorry for the late reply! I have been really busy. As far as I recall Elisa was not a sovereign grand duchess so we probably shouldn't list the Prince of Lucca as a Tuscan consort, maybe an explanatory note shall suffice? I'm open to other suggestions though. -- Jack1755 (talk) 18:48, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry I don't, you mean consorts from Georgia don't you?--David (talk) 10:00, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Hello, please could you create the Category:Polish princesses please, I find it hard to create categories and I see you have created a couple yourself. Cheers--David (talk) 10:10, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Wow, Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy, you have done excellent work on the List of Tuscan consorts. -- Jack1755 (talk) 18:43, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

List of Austrian rulers
Hello! I've just noticed that the List of rulers of Austria is incredibly messy. It requires someone knowledgable with templates to clean it up :) I tried making a list based on List of British monarchs and putting the lists of rulers of divided Austria alongside each other, but (no need to say) something always goes wrong. I'd be happy if you just make enough entries in the list for all rulers; I can put in dates and images myself. Surtsicna (talk) 21:44, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Check the list. Is that what you mean?--Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 01:52, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's exactly what I meant! Surtsicna (talk) 08:35, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it starting to look a little messy on the divided rulers. What do you think? --Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 04:37, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Why don't you try doing what the Spanish Wikipedians did in their List of British rulers? They've put the English and Scottish rulers side by side. The German Wikipedians did the same in their List of British rulers and their list is even better because it can contain pictures. I think this is a good idea. Surtsicna (talk) 08:52, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Please sign your posts to the Reference desk
You've been on Wikipedia long enough that this should be second nature. The tilde key (~) is usually somewhere on the far left of your keyboard (on my keyboard it's to the left of "1"; on someone else's, near the bottom left). Otherwise you can use the little signature (script) button near the middle of the row of buttons above the editing box (between the crossed out "W" and the long dash). Thanks. —— Shakescene (talk) 18:06, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * OK--Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 03:56, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I won't blow your cover. —— Shakescene (talk) 13:38, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Joke
I've moved your rather crap joke off the RD. The answer supplied, interestingly, by a troll, is probably right. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:31, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I don't get this joke that my friend told me. It goes like this. Knock knock. Whose there? Smellmop. Smellmop who? Anybody get it?--Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 00:19, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Smell my poo?

Naples
Some other Wikipedias consider them iure uxoris kings. French Wiki does, for example. On the other hand, it would be nice to have sources which state that husbands of Neapolitan queens regnant held titles related to Naples. Surtsicna (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

German Empresses
German Empresses were never in the List of German queens. I assume you mean Holy Roman Empresses? Holy Roman Empresses are located at List of Holy Roman Empresses. I seperated them because having those two lists together didn't make sense and was only confusing; some Holy Roman Empresses were not German queens and some German queens were not Holy Roman Empresses. Surtsicna (talk) 09:58, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
 * They were never on that list. Even if they were, they had no business being there. Surtsicna (talk) 10:22, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The List of German monarchs can include German emperors, as both emperors and kings were monarchs. However, a German empress cannot be included in the List of German queens or the List of Holy Roman Empresses for one simple reason: she was neither German queen nor Holy Roman Empress. Surtsicna (talk) 10:37, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Serbian consorts
Hello! I see you made an article on the Serbian consorts a while back, but do you have the earlier consorts?--David (talk) 19:01, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I can't do them. The list of rulers of Serbia is really messy.  I really don't understand Serbian or any Eastern European language; heck I don't know crap.  All I know is English but it's easier for me to guess in German, French and Spanish. Also the titles are not constants, sometimes they were kings sometimes, princes, sometimes despot and other titles, information about wives are not clear on most article, and there are red links on some rulers. I did revise the modern list of Serbian and Yugoslavian consorts. --Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 07:32, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I speak Serbian fluently. In fact, my native language and Serbian language are practically two types of the same language. If there is any way I can help you, please let me know! Surtsicna (talk) 13:20, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

The female equivalent of a knez (prince) is kneginja (princess). You should include the consorts of the rulers of Raška. Surtsicna (talk) 12:22, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Victoria's issue
Hi, I was wondering if you could spare the time and effort to proof-read the revisions I made to the table at Victoria of the United Kingdom? I actually went to the table to fix some dates (which could use some double-checking), but then added the grandchildren, naming those who'd become monarchs or their consorts. In some cases I abbreviated the titles for space but perhaps too much for clarity: e.g., "Queen Sophia of Greece" instead of "Sophia of Prussia, Queen of the Hellenes", or "Russian Empress Alexandra" instead of "Alexandra Feodorovna, Tsaritsa of All the Russias", a name that would be familiar to few outside Russia. Compared to researching the Hohenstaufens or Jagiellos in strange tongues, there should be few major scholarly challenges (although another source for the table's facts besides Whitaker's Almanack would help the Queen Victoria article's quest to keep Good Article/Featured Article status.) Any corrections or suggestions would be appreciated by Queen Elizabeth II's Loyal (overseas) Subject,—— Shakescene (talk) 07:25, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Princess Anastasia of Montenegro
Hello - I notice that you had done some edits on this page in the past. Would you be so kind as to take a look at what I have done in the way of expanding and referencing, and see if it meets with your approval? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ProperlyRaised (talk • contribs) 15:59, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It's good but I don't think you should ask me. I specialize in list of consorts and sometimes monarchs.  I made really minor edits to that article.  But maybe you could expand a little on the first marriage section and write her children in a list like her sister's article.  Also did you know George Maximilianovich, 6th Duke of Leuchtenberg was a descendant of Napoleon's first wife and that he had a first marriage to a Duchess Therese of Oldenburg, and also that Anastasia's daughter married the Count Stefan Tyszkiewicz.  --Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 08:32, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
 * See this--Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 08:32, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Moving pages
Hi there! You recently moved a number of articles relating to persons of the palatinate. When you move articles, check the "What links here" link. Then change the articles that link to the old name to point to the new name. That reduces the number of articles linking to the redirect you just created. It also is less disruptive to readers who click on a link expecting one name and finding another on their arrival at the moved article. See step 6 under How to move a page in WP:MOVE. Thanks! imars (talk) 06:50, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Pedro II of Brazil
Hello, Spy. I've noticed that you've made some editions recently in the article about Emperor Pedro II of Brazil. Although I apreciate seeing other users interested on helping, I must confess that I stay a little bit worried when they clearly do not know much about the subject in matter. You have added Pedro II and his eldest son as Portuguese infantes, which they weren't. Now you have added a photograph of the Count d'Eu and princess Isabel and their grandchildren saying that its Pedro II and his grandchildren. Also, you have added the coat of arms of the House of Orléans-Braganza, which would be created only when Pedro de Alcântara (grandson of Isabel) became Head of the Imperial House in 1921. Ald last, but not least, you've added Isabel and Leopoldina's names with a "Braganza" in the end. They did not have the name of their House in their name, just as all the other Royal Houses. Just be careful with those changes, please. ---Lecen (talk) 23:51, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The de Braganza was what I saw on the article. Sorry about the picture I didn't know. I'll replace it with a picture of Pedro and his daughter to make the gallery more full.--Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 00:05, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You might want to check if Pedro II's two sons were Prince of Grão Para. This site said they were but that totally disagree with the Wikipedia article.  Also about the infantes thing. What makes you sure they weren't Prince of Brazil and Infantes of Portugal.  All male-line descendants of Portuguese monarchs are granted that title, not just there sons.
 * Well, infantes if they are Portuguese Princes, something that Pedro II wasn't. Although his father was a Portuguese King, Pedro II was born after Brazil became independent. That is why his sister, and not him, became Queen of Portugal in 1826. His sister was born in 1819, in Rio de Janeiro, just like Pedro II. The difference, however, was that Rio was Portuguese soil at that moment. Three years later Brazil became independent. About Prince og Grão-Pará, that one is simple: just look into the Brazilian Imperial Constitution. The title of Prince of Grão-Pará (Grand Pará) can be confered to one person only, and that person must be the eldest child of the Prince Imperial. And only the eldest child of the Prince Imperial. Any other doubt? Feel free to ask! - --Lecen (talk) 00:30, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * That doesn't make since. Just because Pedro II was born outside of Portuguese territory doesn't mean he's not a Portuguese infante. He was the grandson of King John VI of Portugal. Its not mentioned that Queen Victoria and Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha's sons and daughters were Prince of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, but their male descendants were until World War I.--Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 00:45, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * What does not make any sense is to use a country like the United Kingdom to understand the Brazilian and Portuguese laws of succession. It does not matter if Pedro II was the son of Pedro IV of Portugal or grandson of João VI of Portugal. He was born Brazilian and did not have double citizenship and was not considered in Portugal to be a Portuguese Prince. This is why today Dom Duarte of Braganza, a descendant of Miguel I, younger brother of Pedro IV, is the pretender to the Portuguese crown, and not Luís of Orléans-Braganza, the present pretender to the Brazilian crown. - --Lecen (talk) 04:39, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Well does Portuguese law of succession required citizenship from the Infantes? I understand that all Pedro I's children other than Maria II were disregarded in the succession to the Portuguese throne but his children should have been granted that title as grandchildren of the King of Portugal.  And I didn't say Luís of Orléans-Braganza was a Infante.  Notice I stop after Pedro II's sons, thats where the male-line ended. --Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 06:19, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Why is his sister Princess Francisca of Brazil called a Princess of Brazil and a Portuguese Infanta? --Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 21:28, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The article about her is wrong. I write down in here the Portuguese laws of succession just in a moment. Please wait. - --Lecen (talk) 22:31, 15 November 2009 (UTC)


 * 1) "1. D. Pedro havia sido aclamado soberano de uma nação estrangeira; e esta circunstância, constituindo-o estrangeiro; o excluia do trono de Portugal, na conformidade do decreto das cortes de Lamego, e da petição da assembléia dos três Estados em 1642."
 * 2) "2. A residência de D. Pedro fora do reino era contrária a ordenança das cortes de Thomar de 1641, e aos decretos de 1642."
 * 3) "3. Portugal e Brasil tendo-se constituido estados separados e distintos desde 15 de novembro de 1825; e tendo D. Pedro escolhido a coroa do brasil, estava desqualificado para reinar em Portugal, nos termos do dito decreto de 1642."

Source: John Armitage.História do Brasil. Belo Horizonte: Itatiaia, 1981, p.156 - John Armitage was a British who lived from 1807 to 1856.

In case you do not understand Portuguese, what it is said above is that Emperor Dom Pedro I lost the Portuguese crown at the moment he became a monarch of a foreign country, also at the momento he established himself outside of Portugal or Portuguese territory and because no monarch of Portugal could accept a foreign crown. All of that according to the Cortes (Parliament)' decrees of 1642.

Historical background: In 1578, King Sebastian I of Portugal died fighting against Muslims. His successor and great-uncle, Henry I, died in 1580. Portugal was then annexed by Philip II of Spain. In 1640 the Duke of Braganza (a male-line descendant of the Portuguese kings) was acclaimed Dom João IV. In 1641 the Portuguese Cortes gathered and created decrees that forbiddened foreigners of becoming Portuguese kings. The objective was not only to prevent what happened in 1580 of happening once again, but also to remove Philip IV of Spain's legitimacy to the Portuguese crown. - --Lecen (talk) 14:27, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

You are not getting it! I say nothing about Pedro II having succession rights to the throne of Portugal. But that doesn't make him not an infante. Titles don't ensure sucession. His sister Maria II of Portugal was considered a Brazilian princess and a Portugese infantas because her father was Emperor of Brazil and her grandfather was King of Portugal in her childhood, but she never had any rights to the Brazilian line of succession.--Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 07:33, 20 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I am sorry, but I have to disagree. I do not know how it is in the United Kingdom, but in Brazil if you had a title it was because you were in the line of succession and vice-versa. And Maria II was not a Brazilian Princess. If that was the case, she would have been her brother's heir, wich she wasn't. It was Dona Francisca the heir until the birth of Dom Afonso in 1845. I will give you an example: Dom Pedro de Alcântara, Isabel's heir renounced his rigts to the Brazilian crown in 1909. Not only he lost his place in the line of succession but he also lost his title of Prince Imperial to his younger brother Luís, He was not even a Brazilian Prince anymore and couldn't be called neither "Prince Pedro". And no, Pedro II was never called or treated as an Infante. He was always treated (up to 1831) as the Prince Imperial. --Lecen (talk) 10:55, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Princess Sophie of Greece and Denmark
Hi, I was wondering if you could do anything more to clean up the confusion at Princess Sophie of Greece and Denmark and various associated pages (ancestors, siblings, spouses and offspring) that are nearly as confused. Some of the problems are organizational, some confused gossip with significant items (e.g. what was and how important is the partly-Jewish ancestry of Robert Floris van Eyck's mother, and where does it belong?), and some come from bad writing through several translations. I've taken a first stab, but I'm unfamiliar with the underlying family tree and history; those who know more could do much more than I to clarify these things for readers like me who know little or nothing. —— Shakescene (talk) 20:07, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry. But I don't know. I not an expert at these kind of ancestry.--Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 04:11, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Working on Nikephoros III Botaneiates article
Can you hold off on working on the Nikephoros III Botaneiates article. I am working on it now and we care in conflict over the edits - take care... Dinkytown (talk) 20:53, 26 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks Spy, I'm done with the infobox now... Take care... Dinkytown (talk) 21:01, 26 November 2009 (UTC)