User talk:The Interior/Archive 6

Another major rewrite
Check this out.  Volcano guy  04:51, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Very cool. I remember some of the images from the 2010 mudslide, wish I could have seen some of the damage firsthand.  Did a quick copyedit, not much there to fix! Only quibble - the caption for the Bridge River Vent photo mentions an "inverted V" which I can't really pick out. (maybe Photoshop a little black arrow in there?) Also uses the phrase "forested valley fill" which is a bit confusing.  Overall, great work!  Gotta get up there sometime.  The Interior  (Talk) 04:49, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I just revised the caption. Do you think the article is ready for FAC?  Volcano guy  06:44, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
 * FYI I undid this edit of yours, which was incorrect. As a name, The Devastator is capitalized, as shown on the BC Geographical Names and GSC pages. Also see The Table.  Volcano guy  02:56, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Cool, I've been doing cataloging recently, and we declare war on spurious capitals. But if that's the usage, I won't fight it.  I think it's looking pretty good for FAC, but I haven't been through there myself.  If you are planning on nominating it, link me the review page and I'll help with what I can. Cheers,  The Interior  (Talk) 23:58, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Alright. I might nominate it after I create some "subarticles" for Meager. I have been creating articles for Meager's rock units (e.g. Plinth Assemblage, Job Assemblage, The Devastator Assemblage, Mosaic Assemblage) to link in the article. As far as I am aware of, the Pylon and Capricorn assemblages are the only ones that need articles.  Volcano guy  11:56, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

The County Surveyor Article
Hiya The Interior - when you get a spare minute please go see County Surveyor - I managed to get my thoughts down in writing tidy, so I copied and pasted it into County Surveyor and tidied it a little bit more in there.

I still have to write a section on where freemasonry fits in, but will do that quietly in my drafting page where I won't upset anybody.

DadrianT,EsqMCIHT (talk) 01:04, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Moose Milk
An alcoholic beverage enjoyed by the Canadian Airforce. The drink consists of boiling water, condensed milk, rum and nutmeg I think. I noticed no page on wikipedia about Moose Milk just a redirect to some festival in eastern Canada. I think there should be a Moose Milk page outlining this Canadian tradition. What's your opinion should I make a page? Do you know any good sources? any help appreciatedMsruzicka (talk) 02:40, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Here's a potential source: A Moose's History of North America. It might be a fun little article if a couple more decent sources can be rounded up.  The Interior  (Talk) 16:58, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Farley Mowat's familiar with it: My Father's Son: Memories of War and Peace The Interior  (Talk) 17:01, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Flight of the Conchords
Hey The Interior - I was looking through the BoLP noticeboard and reading a few of the threads on there. I'm looking to get back into writing Wikipedia pages and noticed that you're a fan of Flight of the Conchords (rightly so, as they're awesome). I think their page could use a little work -- wanted to see if you have any suggestions before I get started. Svernon19 (talk) 20:01, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey Svernon. Always good to hear from people with good taste. The article's not in terrible shape, but from a quick look, here's what I can see for issues.  The "Appearances" section is more or less a laundry list.  For an entertainer, its a weird section.  Imagine if band articles had "gig" sections. They would get pretty long.  So I think most of the content in that section could be whittled down and re-written as "Early career" or the like.  Also, too much of the sourcing is primary, i.e. their website, HBO's website, YouTube clips (grrr...).  FOTC has reached a level of prominence where there's sure to be some good third-party profiles/long articles.  So maybe that would be a first step, finding some in-depth coverage.
 * I'm pretty busy with school right now, but I'd love to help you out if you're going to make a stab at cleaning it up. We could even think about Good articleness.  Anyways, welcome back to the Pedia,  The Interior  (Talk) 22:40, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

WP:FILM October 2011 Newsletter
The October 2011 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. —Erik (talk &#124; contribs) 15:10, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

NELHAED
I'd ask him if s/he means to indicate that's his name, and if so to say so on the userpage and disclose any relationship with NELHA. Daniel Case (talk) 17:13, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Feedback Dashboard task force
Hi The Interior,

Since you were a part of the WikiGuides project, I thought I'd give you a heads-up about a new way you can help/mentor newbies on en.wiki: we've recently released a feature called the Feedback Dashboard, a queue that updates in real time with feedback and editing questions from new registered contributors who have attempted to make at least one edit. Steven Walling and I are putting together a task force for experienced Wikipedians who might be interested in monitoring the queue and responding to the feedback: details are here at Feedback Dashboard. Please sign up if you're interested in helping out! Thanks, Maryana (WMF) (talk) 21:43, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Corbin, British Columbia
Somebody vandalised the page Corbin, British Columbia. Cluebot fixed it. Should that user be blocked?Msruzicka (talk) 23:38, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
 * That's a school IP, probably used by many people. Unless someone is on a spree, (i.e. 4 or more vandal edits in a short period of time) or is sock-puppeting, we don't usually block school IP's.  ClueBot does a good job of cleaning up after the kids.  The Interior  (Talk) 23:51, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
 * ClueBot reverted that one in less than a minute. Nice work, ClueBot! :) Hmm, I note Anomebot2 is asking for coords. I'll see if they are in BCGNIS. Pfly (talk) 00:04, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
 * God bless dem bots. The Interior  (Talk) 00:06, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
 * BCGNIS info added, there was some historical info too, so added and linked Nelson and Fort Sheppard Railway. As usual, all existing pages related to BC gold rush stuff were either created or edited by Skookum. Pfly (talk) 00:15, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Noice. We should build some sort of virtual monument on wikipedia in honor of The Skookum. I don't think I've found a BC article yet that didn't have his name in the history. And Msruzicka take note: BCGNIS entries almost always have a cool little anecdote about a location, good for adding to stubs.  The Interior  (Talk) 05:41, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Ferenczy
I respect your opinion, and can see the reasoning behind it, but I wonder if you could let me know what you suggest should be done. I did make some changes once problems were pointed out. Not only is everything cited, but what appears quotable is in quotes, and what isn't is reworded as much as I could. As I noted here, though, there's only so much I can do: I have a single main source, so it's unavoidable that the text will follow the same pattern. No, I'm not trying to justify plagiarism (which I've rigorously sought to avoid), but I still don't know quite what to do in this situation. It's not as though there are dozens of sources on the man; there's one main one I have access to, and I tried to draw upon it without actually lifting it wholesale. If there's anything else I could/should do, I'm prepared to do it. I don't care that much about getting a DYK, but I would like to see the article I wrote back in something like its original form. Any help would be appreciated. - Biruitorul Talk 20:32, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I understand you'd like to get the article to an acceptable state. I'll leave a more detailed note on the Talk Page when I get home this evening.  We'll have a chat on what can be done, and I'll put the nomination on hold for now. Best,  The Interior  (Talk) 20:39, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot for your comments; I'll reply here because what I'm saying isn't quite pertinent to the talk page. Unfortunately for this process, I'm going away on a trip today (not much Internet access where I'll be) and won't be back to editing for at least a month. I assume that in the meantime, the article is going to be taken back to its form before I worked on it. That's understandable, and once I get back, I'll try to produce a more acceptable version, and will discuss the text with you. - Biruitorul Talk 16:16, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Spam: input requested
WT:New editor feedback. Thanks, Steven Walling (WMF) &bull; talk   21:35, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Albert Ostman
I created an article called Albert Ostman. The article was tagged. I feel the tagging was unwarranted if you read the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Msruzicka (talk • contribs) 17:41, 17 November 2011 (UTC) Msruzicka (talk) 17:46, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

There is a discussion about notability on the Albert Ostman talk page. Could you add your opinion to the discussion? Msruzicka (talk) 01:04, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey Msruzicka, love to help out, but very busy right now in real life. From a quick look at the talk page, it looks as if you have a couple experienced editors commenting.  Although I'm not a fan of it, our WP:CANVASS policy might mean that other editors wouldn't look kindly on me commenting after being asked.  The Interior  (Talk) 18:31, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

DYK for The Bugaboos
PanydThe muffin is not subtle 16:02, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

User:John.Farquhar/article
An article called User:John.Farquhar/article has a tag [Category:Bigfoot] at the bottom of it. The page shows up in the Bigfoot category, should the tag be removed?Msruzicka (talk) 21:17, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * - resolved - removed from showing in the cat. Off2riorob (talk) 21:28, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks Rob. Good catch Msrusicka, articles in userspace shouldn't have article-space categorizes attached. The Interior  (Talk) 21:52, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

It looks like Rob retired. Why did he retire?Msruzicka (talk) 05:33, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I have no idea. I'm going to try to find out.  The Interior  (Talk) 14:26, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks like he just needed a break. Politics were involved.  The Interior  (Talk) 15:30, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Looks like Rob is now calling himself Youreallycan. Why did Rob change his name?Msruzicka (talk) 06:41, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
 * That would be his business. The Interior  (Talk) 02:55, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Manzanilla
I reverted my edits. I think the La Manzanilla, Jalisco article should be expanded however. --Mynameislatesha (talk) 09:55, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Manzanillo is a much larger city in Colima. Nice place. Info on La Manzanilla (the coastal one) is pretty sparse, as it's really just a village. My parents are actually renting a place down there this winter. Lucky sods. Thanks for reverting. The material you added to La Manzanilla de La Paz is about La Manzanilla. I was actually thinking of expanding it a while ago, maybe I get around to it. Best regards, and welcome to the editing community, The Interior  (Talk) 09:57, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

C. A. Patrides
Hi The Interior,

Your suggested changes have been implemented.

I also expanded the lede, per WP:MOS.

Thanks again. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 01:06, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


 * You have no reason to feel bad because you missed a couple close paraphrases.
 * I have a reason to feel bad! ;)
 * Take another gander, please! :)
 * Cheers, Kiefer .Wolfowitz 21:59, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your vote of confidence, I see TCO got to it. And I see Sandy Georgia's not happy about it.  Reviewing DYK's has to be the most thankless task on the site.  The "hall of shame" thing seems like a really bad plan to me.  Negative reinforcement and volunteer work don't a good mix make.  The Interior  (Talk) 15:42, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Merging
It has been suggested that Premiership of Stephen Harper be merged with Foreign policy of the Harper government. How do we merge the articles, the best way. Or should they just be deleted as SOAP,SPAM,UNDUE.Msruzicka (talk) 22:03, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Merging instructions are here: WP:MERGE. It's more something you propose than do.  Merging would happen after a discussion and consensus.  As for deleting, that's a whole nother stinky barrel of fish.  You can read the previous deletion discussion here: Articles for deletion/Premiership of Stephen Harper (maybe you already have).  This was what brought ol' Skookum down.  I'm not a fan of those articles, they give the appearance of being well-sourced, but are actually sourced to "breaking news" items on CBC/CTV, not the sort of deep political analysis that would lead to a balanced article.  Be forewarned, any major move on these pages will become political very fast.  Perhaps gathering more opinions at the WikiProject Canada discussion page might help. (you should join WP Canada, BTW). 00:04, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

It has been said that the stephen harper articles are breaking the law. What law are they breaking. Some political advertising law during an election?Msruzicka (talk) 01:45, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

My suggestion for improving DYK
Thoughts? PanydThe muffin is not subtle 16:37, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey Panyd! Today's homework day, so I'm going to try stay off WP.  But your wizard could be a way forward.  As I see it, if we're going to make progress on the CP issue, it has to be a two-pronged effort.  First, we need to let authors/noms know explicitly what's expected re c.p. when they nominate.  The wizard could help with that.  Second, we need a strong group of reviewers who have the tools/skills to catch what still comes through. This involves making DYK an attractive place to work.  I've made my feelings known about one aspect that seems to be working against making DYK an attractive place to work, several reviewers have agreed.  Anyways, I'll take a closer look at the Wizard this eve, and leave you some more substantial feedback.  Thanks for your efforts in this,  The Interior  (Talk) 17:30, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

New image to add in article
I just finished working on a histogram for Meager's eruptive history. It should be useful in the Eruptive history section so I added it there.  Volcano guy  09:54, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Very nice, intelligible to a non-science type like myself. Are you still planning a Featured run?  The Interior  (Talk) 05:37, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes. I have been wanting to make an article for the Bridge River Vent before bringing Meager to FAC but maybe I won't. I am going to make the same histogram for the Mount Cayley and Garibaldi Lake fields sometime.  Volcano guy  06:25, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Feedback Dashboard upgrade
Hi The Interior,

Thanks for signing up for the Feedback Dashboard response team! I wanted to let you know that the tool just got an important update (see here for details). I also wanted to invite you to the IRC office hours session that Steven and I are going to hold this Sunday, December 4. Hope you can make it and share your experience/questions with us! Thanks again, Maryana (WMF) (talk) 23:52, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Email hijacked
Hello,

It seems your email has been hijacked by a spammer. I got a message from your address redirecting to MyOnlineRewards.net, a scam site. You should probably change your password. Inverse Hypercube 04:21, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Just did - sorry about that IH! Speaking of emails, do you think we should try to contact VPL for an update? Its been over a month. (and, unfortunately, our co-ordinator appears to be indeff'd!, so we might have to take point on this if we want to make something happen.)  The Interior  (Talk) 04:26, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think we should. Maybe send Kate Russell another email? Inverse Hypercube  04:35, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Let's do it. I'll draft one up and send it to you for feedback.  Might not be till the weekend, very busy with school. (I know, I should get off this bloody Wikipedia!)  The Interior  (Talk) 04:38, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds good! Inverse Hypercube  04:53, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Re: Blair Field
I was actually thinking of those in the article when I wrote the message, but a quick glance through his others shows that you had every right to doubt. Sorry for jumping on ya. Kithira (talk) 04:04, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey, no worries Kithira! I sometimes worry when reverting about the effect on the editor, but that one used up most of my AGF with his later edits.  Vandalism is a bit heavy right now because the mighty ClueBot is down. Thanks for the note,  The Interior  (Talk) 04:07, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Film November 2011 Newsletter
The  2011 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. —Peppage (talk &#124; contribs) 22:44, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

RE: Welcome back
Thank you very much! Judging by the toolserver edit counter, I've been away for a very long time. I look forward to making some quality edits to Vancouver and BC related articles. --Thereen (talk) 09:47, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Ali Sina (activist)
I read your post on the noticeboard archive. I thought you'd like to know that this individual's article was AFD'd twice previously: first time (no consensus), second time (delete). The amount and quality of secondary sources available has not particularly improved since the second AFD. 24.217.193.187 (talk) 17:00, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, really don't know what to do with that one. It's an article about an online persona, not a person.  It's a very tempting page for people to coatrack on the validity of his statements, which are divisive to say the least.  It would probably be better to merge it to the website article.  I may do so if I have time.  What is your opinion?  The Interior  (Talk) 19:25, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Originally I believe his article was merged onto that of the website. I really don't think either the website or the person are particularly notable. Neither has received in-depth significant coverage from any major news outlet, or major reliable source. Any marginal coverage either has received is from sources that hold views consistent with those published on his website. Merging the articles is also somewhat problematic because editors will pull Sina's opinions into the website's article; it's then unclear which of his statements, if any, deserve mention because the coverage of his opinions, as they are stated on the website, is very scant. In the past it seems as if some editors used the existence of his article to justify the insertion of his opinions on Islam-related articles. Their inclusion met resistance, however, because his statements are not made in reliable sources, including those from his self-published book. If the articles do meet the notability criteria, they're certainly very borderline. 24.217.193.187 (talk) 23:10, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I've stubbed Al Sina for now. I'll take a look at the website article if I have time.  If you want to put either up for AfD, I'll definitely weigh in.  Best,  The Interior  (Talk) 04:09, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm slightly hesitant to do so because some Wikipedia users edit with a presumption that IP editors are up to no good, and reflexively counteract them. However, if by next week you have not done so, I will put up his article for AfD after my examinations are completed. 24.217.193.187 (talk) 05:35, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I know what you are saying, but you shouldn't feel disinclined because you're editing anonymously. As long as your arguments are sound, I think most Wikipedians worth their salt will listen to them.  I'm in exams right now as well, good luck with yours.  The Interior  (Talk) 05:41, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Best of luck to you on your exams also. 24.217.193.187 (talk) 05:51, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

The material you previously deleted was restored by another user. I will be nominating the article for deletion this weekend. 24.217.97.248 (talk) 19:42, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Ughh. Missed that.  AfD might be the way to go with this rather than slow-mo edit war.  Let me know if you have any problems, they recently changed the software so that IP users can't create new pages.  Don't know if that applies to project space.  If you can't do it, I'll put it up.  The Interior  (Talk) 00:20, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I checked the guide for deletion and it states that IP users will not be able to complete the AfD nomination. I'll let you take the lead. You may want to note the results of the previous two AfD debates in your nomination. Thanks. 24.217.97.248 (talk) 22:17, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Articles for deletion/Ali Sina (activist). Done.  Anything I should add?  The Interior  (Talk) 07:00, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It looks fine. 24.217.97.248 (talk) 05:18, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
 * There's an entry on the article within Deletion review. It may be helpful to mention that as well. Your call. 24.217.97.248 (talk) 05:27, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Derek Boogaard
You're welcome, eh? (My mother's parents (now deceased) were Canadian immigrants, and I lived near Buffalo where my wife is from for six years, so I am not entirely unfamiliar with Canadian culture especially re hockey ... Greater Buffalo is maybe one of the few places in the U.S. where the Hockey Night in Canada theme music is as evocative of happy memories of nights in front of the TV as it is north of the border. And, I have also traveled in Canada a lot ... not just into the areas near Buffalo but when I was younger our parents took us out west, to some of her relatives in Vancouver, to Banff, Jasper and Miette Hot Springs, and then later I went skiing with my dad at Mont Tremblant and on another trip we went to Montréal and Quebec City (where we actually stayed at the Château Frontenac)). As you will see your post has given me the chance to unburden myself a bit of some of things that series made me think about, as well.

So yes, I have to admit that series really made me think a bit, too. I never played hockey, perhaps because I didn't have fond memories of my few youthful forays on skates, but it's probably the one sport I most wish I'd had the chance to play. So I have watched a lot of it, and cheered as the Devils, once the team mocked in parodies of "The Safety Dance" on Greater New York radio, hoisted the Cup around the ice in the '90s, and grimaced at the "No Goal" that gave the Stars the Cup over the Sabres. And I regret that even though my wife and once lived in Clarence, we never took the opportunity to stop by Finnlock's just once before Rick Martin died (A lot of people in Buffalo's northern suburbs have fond memories, and humorous anecdotes, about not just him but the entire French Connection from their playing and living years there).

I have never minded hockey fights (I have fond memories of my own of watching the Good Friday Massacre on TV live. The [bench-clearing brawl]] to end all bench-clearing brawls ...). But I have felt a little off-put by the way it's become such a ritualized sideshow in recent years, now that people compile video clips of them online and devote websites to ranking enforcers in junior hockey. I always felt that a real hockey fan liked the fights but knew that the teams could play a good, tough game without having to fight.

In the old days, before hockeyfights.com, it was I guess easier to maintain the noble lie that hockey fights were just the "spontaneous outlet of frustrations" as the league put it, since we always talked about fights anecdotally and qualitatively ... Gordie Howe was as good with his fists as he was with a stick and puck, Dave Shultz was a guy you were really afraid of (even more than the other Broad Street Bullies, and so forth. In that climate, it was easier for Clark Gillies to get to be so good as an enforcer that he didn't need to fight later in his career and could just skate. Somehow I don't think that would be allowed to happen today. And yet that's the real point of having an enforcer—like nuclear weapons, they are most effective when they do not have to be used. (Also, I think the article on Gillies should have a bit that's got to be reliably sourced somewhere: one of the times he had his 24 hours with the Cup, he let his dog drink from it, causing a lot of controversy at the time when it was reported. Gillies defended his dog, saying "he's a nice doggy".)

I have often defended fighting in ice hockey (and that article still deserves its star, too) not with the usual tropes but by pointing out some unique aspects of the sport that, I think, make fighting more likely:


 * First, everybody's on skates. The same players can and will go faster than they will at a run (I'm not sure what the speed differential is ... List of speed skating records tells us that the fastest average speed in that sport is about 33 mph. Even though that's speed skating, we can adjust downward a little bit for hockey and still argue that its skaters are moving faster than even the fastest sprinters (Usain Bolt's speed in his world record sprint, per World records in athletics, comes out to about 21 mph). Per f=ma that tends to offset the fact that hockey players are in general smaller than NFL players, and may even mean they can collide at even greater levels of force.


 * After getting hit that hard on, say, a football field, you fall and hit the dirt, then get back up if you can do so right away. On the ice you fall, slide face first into the boards and hit your head hard enough to hurt even with the helmet on (or on your back and jam your knee). Then you hear the horn go off as the guy who just did this to you, the guy you were supposed to be stopping, scores. When you get up and look at him he smiles condescendingly toward you for a fleeting moment. You're in pain, you've been triply humiliated and not only both teams and their coaches but everyone in the stands saw it and knows it. But your shift is over. What's going to happen next time you're on the ice with him? You know your coach will give you a knowing look as you go out for that shift. Pop quiz; What do you do? What do you do?


 * As that little scenario suggests, a hockey rink differs from a basketball court (the other major indoor arena sport) by virtue of being surrounded by a physical barrier. Not only does that add an extra dimension to the contact aspect of the game, any armchair social psychologist will tell you that makes the game more intimate for the players by putting the crowd, i.e. society as a whole and its mores, at a distance.


 * I did play lacrosse, probably the closest other sport to hockey, and one of the first things I learned was that "you can get away with a lot of cheap stuff in this game". I imagine in the tighter confines of a hockey rink this is even truer. And then add in (or, rather, subtract in) that in regular-season hockey at least, only one official on the ice can call a penalty. If the linesmen see elbowing or holding going on, they might let the ref know to watch out for it, but they can't directly do anything about it.


 * The Times series reiterates a truth about hockey: many players have been playing since, as it's been put, they could burp (Hey, my six-year-old nephew plays goalie for a couple of Mite teams in Connecticut, and he's been at it for a couple of years (both his parents played intramural hockey in college, so that's where it comes from)). When you do that, hockey comes to define you, regardless of the level you reach, because you're in a sense always your younger self when you skate out onto the rink. I found it equally endearing and revealing that Mike Peca, then with the Sabres, said that if they won the Cup that year, when he got it for his day he'd take it back to the same block in Toronto where he grew up, so he and another childhood friend who'd made it to the NHL could play in the street just like they had as kids, except holding the real Stanley Cup over their heads instead of a trash can. An excellent demonstration of the psychological proximity in Peca's mind of childhood informal street hockey and pro hockey.


 * It also strikes me that the many young boys who play both youth hockey, and informal pond hockey, usually do so in groups of brothers (likewise it always seemed to me that there were more brothers, like the Sutters, in the NHL than the other major team sports). That brings both the intrafamily grievances and the interfamily rivalries onto the ice. (I think I remember that Good Friday Massacre having, briefly, Dale Hunter and one of his brothers getting into it, which the commentators found distasteful). You skate one-on-one against your brother on the pond and you're settling the score over last week's broken record album, particularly because there's no authority figure present. And then you're in the youth game, and someone goes after your brother, you're going over to stand up for him because he's still your brother.


 * So, with the combination of those last two factors especially, I think there's inherently a greater likelihood that hockey players will fight (again, I said, I think the psychological regression has a lot to do with this. Get a bunch of three-year-olds together playing any sport involving even incidental contact, you'll get something that starts a fight. And on a hockey rink ... I don't think I need to leave that to your imagination). I've always been struck by the cliché shot of a player being escorted to the penalty box by the ref, from behind ... the ref has his arm around some guy usually way bigger and way younger, in an almost reassuring way, as if the player, who may in reality be a multimillionaire with a wife and two kids, were some child in need of comforting (of course, my father-in-law once pointed out to me from his own club playing experience, the ref's other hand, which you can't see, is usually holding on to the player's jersey to keep him from skating away).


 * And once a fight in hockey does start, it's harder to break up. The only authority figures on the ice, on skates, are the referee and linesmen. Unlike other sports, no one else can come out and intervene, not the coaches, not even the venue security or the cops. Not unless they want to slip all over the ice and make the situation potentially worse. The players really do have to police themselves.

So, that's why I think fights are always going to be a part of North American ice hockey (There's also an interesting historical theory voiced by Adam Gopnik recently at the Massey Lectures, which locates it in ethnic rivalries in late 19th-century Montreal. Seems stick-swinging was the bigger problem back then). I make two distinctions for European hockey as to why there are no fights: the larger rink makes a more passing-oriented, less physical game more likely to succeed, and you also have more violence in the stands (I remember a reporter for Sports Illustrated, which has always hated hockey fighting, writing about watching a game in Stockholm where the contest on ice was as clean as could be ... whereas the fans were throwing out rocks and stuff on the ice, to the point that the home team's captain had to make a strongly-worded announcement warning them not to do it again, and challenging each other to postgame rumbles, to the point that after the game was over the fans were asked to use different subway stops). I wonder if anyone's ever considered that safety-valve aspect of fights in hockey ... is there less violence in the stands during games as compared to European hockey and other North American team sports?

And, of course, there's another interesting cultural wrinkle as well. You mentioned how it's practically sacrilegious in Canada to criticize or even question the place of fights in the game. Like one of the commentators on the Times series, I also find it odd that Canadians, who consider themselves more peaceful than Americans, so eagerly embrace violence in this one context (as that commenter writes "Hockey, like no other sport, plays a societal counterbalancing role in Canada. Whether it can be the same game without enforcers raises the question of whether Canada could be its peaceful self without daily violent contests in every town."). And, correspondingly, most criticism of fighting in hockey seems to come from Americans (just look at all the addresses on some of the most morally-outraged respodents to the series.

Of course, I think that the Americans who talk about how barbaric fighting is in hockey ought to check themselves. Some of these (at least in sports journalism) are exactly the same people who write fondly about a pitcher who "protects his teammates" by throwing at a hitter from the other team after the opposing pitcher has plonked one of the pitcher's teammates (assuming everyone thinks that latter one was done deliberately). So it's bad when it's fists, but it's OK to hurl a hard object 99 mph at someone's head because you can always say it was an accident? I mean, no one has ever died as a direct result of a hockey fight.

But, all that said, I do empathize with the guy who said his son, after reading the series, won't watch hockey-fight videos again. Or, rather, the son. I used to be with a cousin of my wife's, an avid hockey and hockey-fight fan who had tapes full of Rob Ray's greatest hits, who pointed out that the punches in hockey fights weren't that severe as the players were on skates and couldn't step into them like boxers can. But if Boogaard was able to inflict that kind of damage on Fedoruk, I guess I can't say that anymore.

It seems they make up for the lack of lower-body leverage by grabbing jerseys and pulling. I wonder if this might be addressed by a rules tweak to the effect of making it a suspension if you grab any aspect of the other guy's uniform during a fight.

Getting late. Perhaps more later. Daniel Case (talk) 04:54, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, the good ol' hockey game. I'm just getting packed up to head back to my hometown, a real hockey mecca, home to the Kamloops Blazers.  The WHL games when I was growing up and the Blazers were dominant were hockey at its finest.  Fast, skilled yet brutal, the games always had a fight.  For young males, sitting on the hard wooden benches in the old Memorial arena, those games were heaven.  We had Jerome Iginla, Scott Niedermayer, Ken Hitchcock as our coach, and three Memorial Cups in four years.  That's the style of hockey I grew up loving.
 * But it was the death of Rick Rypien that got me thinking about the enforcer's role a bit more critically. I was working close to Coleman, Alberta, Rypien's hometown, when he passed.  I was in a bar with some co-workers talking to one of his cousins who was in town for the funeral.  According to the cousin, Rypien was a nervous wreck his last season with the Canucks.  Similar to Boogaard, the stress of potentially bare-knuckle boxing an opponent, game after game, really got to him.  Drink, drugs, the rest.  Now you might say, "Hey Rick, it's time for a career change."  And probably friends and family did. But he had been doing nothing but hockey since his pre-teens.  No skills or trades, no degree, no work experience.  So he just kept at it, until it was too much.
 * To take fighting out of the game would fundamentally alter it. But it may have to be done.  Do we, a a society, allow people to make the Faustian bargain Boogaard made?  Your health for money and fame.  I just don't know.
 * As to the psychological role played by hockey fighting on the Canadian population, there may be something to that. Canadians are largely indoors thought the winter-months, the long nights produce a sort of insular madness. Maybe it is the toe-to-toes and the bone-rattling hits that provide a cathartic collective release.  Maybe we'd all be knocking each other silly without them.
 * Hockey fights are highly ritualized affairs. In other sports (I'm thinking baseball especially), fights are free-for-alls, with real anger apparent.  But when two hockey players go at it, it's sort of a clumsy dance, with the refs a-circling and the gloves thrown to the ice.  Boogaard especially was always stone-faced (except for the famous smirk!) in his fights, just another day at the office.  The Interior  (Talk) 21:37, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Eric Wilson (author)
Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:02, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Carl Wimmer
FYI... I started a sockpuppet investigation at Sockpuppet investigations/Truconservative Bgwhite (talk) 05:49, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, looks like we were accused of being on Wimmer's payroll. You sneaky Canadians have your tentacles everywhere. Bgwhite (talk) 05:59, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Haha! It is true. We are secretly inserting ourselves into the world's power structures, starting with the State of Utah. Thing is, we're so nice aboot it that nobody suspects us.  Thanks for starting the SPI, I was out watching the new Sherlock Holmes flick (which is entertaining enough, but definitely a Cheap Tuesday).  The Interior  (Talk) 06:31, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ha, I knew it. My mother-in-law's family is from Alberta and "nice" is not in their vocabulary.  I guess people from BC are nice and power hungry.  I hadn't seen the first Sherlock Holmes.  I'd like to see the second because it's getting good reviews.  I'd highly recommend Sherlock (TV series) if you can find it.  It is very, very good.  BTW, before catching myself, I originally wrote, "You sneaky Canadians have your testicles everywhere".  Bgwhite (talk) 07:02, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I think you will "enjoy" this. There is a brief blurb about our sockpuppet friend that I think you will get a laugh at. Bgwhite (talk) 09:19, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Through the looking glass, for sure. Thanks for the link! The Interior  (Talk) 23:05, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, and our testicles are mostly all accounted for, I've been asking around. Too bad about your Albertan in-laws, tell them they might get a visit from the consulate if they aren't adhering to our national civility standards.  The Interior  (Talk) 23:08, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia_talk:Did_you_know
Did would be a more relevant day for the DYK? See Wikipedia_talk:Did_you_know. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 10:44, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Krampus
Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:01, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry that I was in your way of presenting "him" on Christmas Day. But did you know that like that he made it to the stats, whereas the stats were down for three days over Christmas? The delay was good for something, after all! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:41, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * For sure! The toolserver must have had too much eggnog. No hard feelings, my response was a bit emotional because some young ones around here had become very excited about Krampus, and I had told them it would run on Christmas Day.  My own fault for making promises outside my control.  Best to you Gerda, (your two articles were high quality and far less frightening!)  The Interior  (Talk) 18:51, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

All the best for the season
  "And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold,   I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.  For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord."  Luke 2:10-11 (King James Version)  Msruzicka (talk)is wishing you a Merry Christmas. This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove.

Spread the cheer by adding to their talk page with a friendly message.

Making sure
making sure you saw this. Pumpkin Sky  talk  23:36, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey Pumpkin. I did read it, just didn't want to spend any more of my sparse holiday time on the noticeboards.  What was the situation you were referring to where you wanted a discussion, or were you making a more general statement?  Most of the time, I just go with the flow.  The Interior  (Talk) 01:21, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Reverting my recent Weezer related changes
Greetings The Interior. Being a long time reader, but new contributor, it gives me confidence that there are people actively watching changes for accuracy. Thank you for that. I appreciate you letting me know about reverting my changes. I also appreciate constructive criticism and advice on proper etiquette and other rules of wikipedia. My intent for editing the Weezer page was the same as other wikipedia authors who have edited other band pages similarly. I would like other fans of the band to know what they're up to. I assumed that any time a factual statement can be backed up with references (e.g. an external website proving that fact) would be appreciated. Wouldn't you say that even having a rock band page at all is a bit of promotion? Now, perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by "reverting some of your edits". Maybe you just meant the reference itself, which I would accept as reasonable because I don't have much (any) personal experience into what constitutes a good reference and what is generally frowned upon. If you can respond with a clarification, I would appreciate it. Thanks. Cricketmedia (talk) 20:23, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Okay. This is good. I'm learning from you about what's notable and what good references are. I appreciate the link to the Verifiability page. I then used that to see the Neutral Point of View page as well. This is something that I could have found on my own (probably should have), but I definitely appreciate the spoon feeding. These lessons are going to make me a better wikipedia author. If you'll entertain some more questions about this, based on your feedback and the pages you referenced, it seems that the following articles would better fit the definition of verifiable sources. They're from pretty respectable third party websites, in some cases have actual authors employed by those sites, there are multiple articles about the event, and the articles are original--not one big circular reference to the original single article (as many "news links" are). By citing one or two of these, do you think the cruise meets the threshold of being a noteworthy event in terms listing it on the Weezer band page? Chicago Sun-Times/Billboard.com ( http://www.suntimes.com/entertainment/music/8052293-421/weezer-still-sailing-own-way-including-cruise-concert.html October 5th), New Music Express (http://www.nme.com/news/weezer/57978 July 11, 2011), Rolling Stone (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/weezer-announce-caribbean-cruise-20110712 July 12, 2011), and the MTV Newsroom (http://newsroom.mtv.com/2011/07/13/the-weezer-cruise-awkwardness-ahoy/ July 12th). I think what I've posted on the page qualifies as neutral, but feel free to comment on that as well. Cricketmedia (talk) 21:34, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I finally got back to this and made one edit to the weezer page citations per your feedback. If you get a chance to check it out, let me know what you think. Thanks again for the help and advice. Cricketmedia (talk) 04:03, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
It's standard practice. The move is all that matters, and there's a visual description of it at the end of the game. Sorry if you didn't want a TB. Jasper Deng (talk) 06:05, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Whaddaya talkin about, I love TBs. The Interior  (Talk) 06:29, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I replied at the DYK nomination Normally, users I talk to say they use their watchlist, so that's the assumption I made here :/.Jasper Deng (talk) 06:36, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Either way works with me, Jasper. Cheers,  The Interior  (Talk) 06:48, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

In case you didn't read my reply
I finished with Tachash. Sniperscout (talk) 08:17, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Why do I have trouble believing you. The Interior  (Talk) 00:33, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Film December 2011 Newsletter
The December 2011 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. —Peppage (talk &#124; contribs) 22:12, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Murphy edit
I don't see the hectacre edit you said you made. Pumpkin Sky  talk  00:00, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * How about now? We had a fire in northern Alberta this summer that topped out at almost 800 000 hectares, I actually worked on it!  The Interior  (Talk) 00:10, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * That's what you call a big flame and very hot! Pumpkin Sky   talk  00:12, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * When I tell people it was really fun, they look at me strange, but it was. It was mostly a low-level burn, all patchy in the muskeg.  But it had its hot moments.  Maybe I should do a DYK on it!  The Interior  (Talk) 00:15, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * SURE! Hopefully there's a free pic of it. When I got here I looked into FU pics (once I figured out what FU pics meant) and went "I don't need that nightmare" Pumpkin Sky  talk  00:17, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, I've a few of my own up my sleeve, even some video. Unfortunately, unlike the US Gov, all of our tax-sponsored official government images are locked down, copyright wise.  The Interior  (Talk) 00:44, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Nasa comes through big:  The Interior  (Talk) 01:25, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Cool! Pumpkin Sky  talk  01:34, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

PHildebrand
It was good to see another and, I find, senior party entering the "negotiations" here. I'd been away from the page for a bit and was distressed, in fact to the point that I'd gone to the talk page rather than try to face the near-edit war on the page. You came in while I was "over there". (And, boy, was I glad to see it.) It seemed worth it now to alert you to the talk page (and the link from there to "one of the parties" whom I addressed directly (as others had)) in case the situation doesn't stabilize; or FYI.

I'm feeling pretty far out on a limb with this one, too, so appreciate being able to see how this all sounds; thanks for a little forbearance. Cheers. Swliv (talk) 01:14, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey Swliv. I came to that page after seeing the subject on the BBC World News and being a bit confused by his accent.  Sounded a bit Canadian for a Swiss banker, eh.  But I can see that his dismissal has some back story, and maybe more than one story.  So I'll keep an eye on things, thank you for attempting to settle the edit war.  If the IP parties continue like that, semi-protection might be needed.  There's also the biographies of living persons noticeboard, that's where I usually go if I'm unsure of how to proceed with a bio content dispute.  Nice to meetcha,  The Interior  (Talk) 07:14, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I've never heard him speak but UToronto was in there now that you mention it.


 * Basked a moment, once I got here. But there's now an update at the talk page. And I've followed your advice and posted at BLPN. ... See what else, from there. Meanwhile thanks, and pleased to make your acquaintance as well. 21:37, 10 January & Swliv (talk) 22:07, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Mount Meager
It's up at FAC (here).  Volcano guy  07:50, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Wicked, watchlisted. The Interior  (Talk) 23:56, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * If you think it's good for FA you could "support" it.  Volcano guy  02:22, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Jack Harte
--Bbb23 (talk) 19:11, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Commented. The Interior  (Talk) 20:53, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Hello And thank you
Hello, Yes my name is a Gibson reference, thank you for noticing :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.224.105.81 (talk) 13:29, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks and an OMG
Appreciate the copyedits on Waptia! And I just realized, I've completely forgotten about the Adams River map! LOL. I'll try and get them done by tomorrow. --  Obsidi ♠ n   Soul   20:11, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * No worries, I'd completely forgotten how cool the Burgess Shale is! The Interior  (Talk) 20:13, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep. It's a long-term goal for me to expand the articles on them. The Burgess Shale fauna was one of the things that got me interested in fossils as a kid in the first place. :) --   Obsidi ♠ n   Soul   20:17, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Have you ever visited? We actually went on a field trip there (stayed in Field no less) in Grade 10.  Pretty spectacular location for a fossil deposit.  So cool to find that the top of the Rockies was once a seabed.  The Interior  (Talk) 20:20, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * LOL I'm halfway around the world! So no, sadly. :( --  Obsidi ♠ n   Soul   20:24, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * If you ever visit BC, you've got a tour guide :) (Probably wise to visit in the summer months, unless you have ice-climbing skills) The Interior  (Talk) 20:27, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Psh, given the importance of the site, I'll be surprised if the Smithsonian hasn't built an escalator on it already. :P That said, it'll be years before I can afford being a tourist of anything, heh, but thanks. :) --  Obsidi ♠ n   Soul   20:35, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

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Requests for comment/F&aelig;
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Punkin Pi
I restored the comment you had deleted, for ease of access when or if an SPI is started against the Punkin. He's obviously a sock, although of who I don't know and don't care. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 07:00, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
 * No worries, I thought it was over the top so I yanked it. You seem to be taking in it in stride.  The Interior  (Talk) 07:14, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Turns out that is a sock of . Not a character I had much dealngs with, so I couldn't make the connection. Others did, though. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:47, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Jerks tend to stick in people's memories. 'Twas a cool username tho.  The Interior  (Talk) 05:54, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * True. An anagram of "Pumpkin", complete with punkin pie recipe. Although other varieties of pies work better for decorating someone's face. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:25, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Online Ambassador
Hello! After sitting around for a while, your application to be an Online Ambassador has been accepted. Please read the welcome message and any of the linked pages you are unfamiliar with, and complete the tasks listed there. There is a list of classes needing OAs here, which you should look at once you're done with the introductory material; there is one at UBC, if you're interested. Let me know if you have any questions, and welcome! Nikkimaria (talk) 02:05, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks NikkiMaria! The UBC history class looks like a good match, they're even working on some articles I've wanted to expand.  The Interior  (Talk) 02:36, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Distrust That Particular Flavor
The DYK project (nominate) 00:03, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for offering to be an Online Ambassador!
I just got your message. Thanks so much for signing up to be an ambassador for my course. We're just getting underway. I have just got the teams of students organized and the next thing they're doing is practicing editing an entry of their choice (not necessarily related to the course content). I imagine they'll be needing help eventually, and you may likely get called on by them - and me! Cheers, --Greentina (talk) 20:15, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Great Tina, look forward to seeing their work. The Interior  (Talk) 20:36, 4 February 2012 (UTC)