User talk:The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation

April 2021
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Thank you. ClueBot NG (talk) 15:08, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
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Welcome to Wikipedia. Because we have a policy against usernames which give the impression that the account represents a group, organization or website, I have blocked this account; please take a moment to create a new account with a username that represents only yourself as an individual and which complies with our username policy or request a change of username. You should also read our conflict of interest guideline and be aware that promotional editing is not acceptable regardless of the username you choose. Additionally, if your contributions to Wikipedia form all or part of work for which you are, or expect to be, paid, you must disclose who is paying you to edit. Please also note that you are permitted to use a username that contains the name of a company or organization if it identifies you individually, such as "Sara Smith at XYZ Company", "Mark at WidgetsUSA", or "FoobarFan87". If your username does not represent a group, organization or website, you may appeal this username block by adding the text at the bottom of your talk page. You may simply create a new account, but you may prefer to change your username to one that complies with our username policy, so that your past contributions are associated with your new username. If you would prefer to change your username, you may appeal this username block by adding the text at the bottom of your talk page. Please note that you may only request a name that is not already in use, so please check here for a listing of already taken names. Thank you. Hammersoft (talk) 15:14, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Paid policy on editing? I am the official Public Affairs Representative for WHINSEC. My job is to stop the spread of misinformation. We are not the School of Americas and these people continue to try and connect us to them. How can I do my job if you do not sunderstand that, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dancruz1980 (talk • contribs) this is my job, paid or not, i am the official source of information about whinsec not these people who continue to spread lies based on misinformation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (talk • contribs)
 * This means you are being paid to perform edits on Wikipedia. You must comply with our policy on paid editing. This is not optional. Failure to do so is a breach of our Terms of Use. If you have changes you think need to be done to the article, then work collaboratively with us to get them done by posting suggestions for such changes at the article's talk page. --Hammersoft (talk) 15:48, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Two things; first, if you don't comply with our policy on paid editing, you will not be editing here. Second; fine, you're the official source of information about WHINSEC. You are not the official source of information about WHINSEC on Wikipedia. Please understand that distinction. You do not own the article Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. --Hammersoft (talk) 16:13, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

you obviously are not reading what I am saying. WE ARE NOT THE SCHOOL OF AMERICAS. EVERYTHING THEY ARE REFERENCING IS ABOUT THEM NOT WHINSEC. AGAIN WE ARE NOT THE SCHOOL OF AMERICAS. The School of Americas closed its doors and we started in 2001. people continue to try and connect them to us when we are not them. this is what i need you to understand. we have tried and tried with these people and they continue to belive the lies spread about WHINSEC. Our doors have always been open to them to see what we do here at whinsec and everytime one of them comes they see that we are indeed not the School of Americas. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (talk • contribs)

Speedy deletion nomination of User:The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation


A tag has been placed on User:The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section U5 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to consist of writings, information, discussions, and/or activities not closely related to Wikipedia's goals. Please note that Wikipedia is not a free web hosting service. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 15:43, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Contested deletion
This page should not be speedily deleted because you are failing to see the problem. I am the Public Affairs representative for WHINSEC. People who have nothing to do with WHINSEC keep spreading misinformation about our organization. We are NOT THE SCHOOL OF AMERICAS. I will do everything in my power to stop this misinformation. Deleting my user page and not allowing my page to exist with the official info from WHINSEC is not the answer. why allow these people who we have constantly invited to come see our organization and see the truth for themselves, to continue to spread lies about us? this is unjust. please do not delete and restore my account. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (talk • contribs)
 * First, please sign your talk page comments by adding a "~" to the end of your posts. This lets us know who is talking. Right now, we are speaking to each other across a chasm. I am trying to make you understand that this is a collaborative environment, with people from all over the world editing the project. It appears you are under the mistaken belief that you, as the official representative of WHINSEC, have the final say in what is allowed and not allowed on the article. I will personally look into the association or lack of association of SOA with WHINSEC. But, I will NOT be deleting Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperation unless there is strong reason to believe it is all fallacious. Your continual efforts to remove this and other sections on that article and replace it with content from your website rather dramatically demonstrates your conflict of interest with this article and shows why you shouldn't be directly editing it, as you are most decidedly not neutral in your approach to the article. Further, threats of "everything in [your] power" rather then congenially approaching us a collaborator to get the article right is most emphatically not the way forward. If you can't collaborate with us, you won't be editing here. --Hammersoft (talk) 15:56, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

I await your research and then hopefully the speedy restoration of this page. we must be heard and the people who spread lies about WHINSEC must not be allowed to do so. thanks.The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (talk) 16:05, 27 April 2021 (UTC)The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (talk • contribs)
 * Again, please sign your comments. See my instructions above. I will not be restoring the article to your preferred version of the article. However, I may remove connections to SOA. In support of that; can you please cogently refute this source which notes "On Jan. 17, the school will reopen in the same location"? --Hammersoft (talk) 16:09, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Also; the 107th Congress refers to WHINSEC as the "successor institution" to SOA . The 109th Congress referred to it in the same way . I'm curious as to your thoughts about that? --Hammersoft (talk) 16:27, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Sorry about the signing thing I am still new to this Wiki stuff. Like I said before the actual law that was signed opened the doors fro WHINSEC Jan 17 2001. SOA Closed its doors. Being a successor does not mean we represent what SOA was. We are an entirely different organization focused on Human Rights and the Rule of Law. We did use the same location but the news article misrepresented factual information that a new entity was created and not just a name change as they suggest. So I have a suggestion, restore this page and allow the content on this page to be intact and protected. I will not make any changes to the other article mentioned on any acct and use the proper channels as you mentioned to work with that contributor. I ask this so at least we have our info out and people who see both can make up their minds on who to believe. would this be a compromise that you can agree with?The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (talk)The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation 12:47, 27 April 2021 (EDT)
 * Thanks for signing :) Not knowing Wiki stuff isn't a crime. I'm not in favor of the compromise, as I feel Congress, in two different sesssions, views the institutions as tied together. Clearing the article of any mention of SOA, as your preferred version does, fails to address the history appropriately. Right or wrong, SOA and WHINSEC are tied together in the minds of people writing news articles about them and by Congress. Let me give you an example; it is possible that Fort Benning will be renamed due to its having been named after a Confederate general. Regardless of whatever the name is people will associate the base name with the prior name for likely decades to come. This will be true even if every tenant command leaves Fort Benning at the moment the base name changes and entirely new tenant commands take residence under the new name. Yes, SOA closed. Yes, WHINSEC open. One school closed, a different one opened. But, as sources note, WHINSEC was in the same place as the prior SOA, teaching similar courses to similar clients with similar materials. That's what secondary, reliable sources are pointing out, and Wikipedia is largely based upon such sources. This is going to sound very strange, but Wikipedia is not after truth per se. See Verifiability, not truth for so more information. So, we can verify that WHINSEC was previously SOA. Is that truth? Not precisely, no. Is it verifiable? Yes. Being in your position, you find this highly objectionable and I understand why. As a dispassionate observer of this, I understand it's uncomfortable but the public, including Congress, continues to view SOA and WHINSEC as tied to each other. Ok, so all that said; I am just one voice on Wikipedia. I'm no more the final arbiter of what is allowed on the article than you are. What we can do is start a request for comment on the issue. I would recommend that we proceed doing so via your Dancruz1980 account or, if you get a rename of this account, from this account. How that works; we start a section on Talk:Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation titled something very clear and concise about a suggest change to the article. Being clear and concise is very important, as well as being neutral. You're not familiar with this process, so I can help. If we're going to do that, we can hash out the details here beforehand. Once we have the RfC statement clearly laid out, we then tag it as an RFC. Then, usually for 30 days discussion will ensue with random people from elsewhere on the project commenting and hoping to achieve consensus on how to move forward. This is how we work collaboratively here on difficult subjects. How does that sound? --Hammersoft (talk) 17:02, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

To elaborate a little more, the courses we offer now are completely different from what was offered by SOA. We are no longer in the same location. All of our courses have a mandated Human Rights and Democracy portion and we also have other courses that go further into this. Yes we will forever be connected but we are in no way shape or form the same entity. Our focus at WHINSEC is to preserve human rights and to make better leaders. I would still like to have a WHINSEC user that represents our truths and that article can sand the way it is. those critics of WHINSEC re not going away as we have dealt with them since the doors opened. However the protests that would occur annually no longer happen because most of them have seen the light. Again, our doors have always been open for anyone to see what we do here at WHINSEC, we are not hiding anything. We can not be held responsible for people who came and took one course at SOA and then did something bad affect the reputation of WHINSEC. We should not responsible for others actions. Ill give you the easiest example I can think of, The OK City Bomber, are we to blame the people who educated him for his actions? Heres another, anyone who decides to run someone over with their vehicle do we hold the DMV accountable? No. this should be no different. Again I am new to all of this and will go with what you think is best. I just want our message out there. The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation 13:26, 27 April 2021 (EDT)
 * "that represents our truths": this is exactly why Wikipedia Conflict of Interest guidelines exist. It is not Wikipedia's purpose to allow your organization (or any other organization) to "represent their truths"; rather, it is Wikipedia's purpose to represent what has been written in reliable, independent media. If, as you claim, WHINSEC has fundamentally change since its SOA predecessor, there will be reliable media reporting on that, and we can cite that material to show, in the history of this organization, its migration from its former policies and purposes to its current policies and purposes. But we can't rely on you, as an official representative of the organization, to present that history in a neutral manner. Instead, we must rely on the independent media that covers your organization. And yes, some of that media will be slanted against your organization, but we Wikipedia editors are generally a fairly intelligent lot and can sort out those biases to arrive at a neutral narrative. As has suggested, your best course of action at this point is to open a discussion (at the article's talk page) to hash out these issues among the larger Wikipedia community.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 17:57, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Notice of Conflict of interest noticeboard discussion
There is currently a discussion at Conflict of interest/Noticeboard regarding a possible conflict of interest incident with which you may be involved. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.144.202.125 (talk) 04:06, 29 April 2021 (UTC)