User talk:The fall of pmpei

Poor citation
"...(removing very poor citation. Martin Bryant's mother is probably suffering a mental condition herself.)"

I agree that the citation used for the inclusion of Martin Bryant within the WP "List of people with autism spectrum disorders" was less than convincing because it was tertiary evidence, but, within the WP article about Bryant, a diagnostic report ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Bryant#cite_note-Mullen-3 ) by defense psychiatrist Paul E. Mullen was entered into court evidence and stipulated that a previous diagnostic report by prosecution psychiatrist Ian Sale stated that "...in his opinion Mr Bryant manifested severe developmental problems during childhood and that he could be regarded as having shown a mixture of conduct disorder, attention deficit hyperactivity and a rare condition known as Asperger's Syndrome...." Mullen replied that he was "in agreement with Dr Sale that the records indicate that Mr Bryant was grossly disturbed from early childhood. He can certainly be fitted within the criteria for conduct disorder, but all this amounts to in the diagnostic manual is a list of a range of aggressive destructive and deceitful behaviors during childhood and as such does not advance understanding to any degree. Asperger's Syndrome is a condition which could explain some of the abnormalities in Mr Bryant and in noting this possibility Dr Sale raises a potentially important question. The section from the text on Forensic Psychiatry convering Asperger's Syndrome appended to his report by Dr Sale though providing a good account of the forensic implications does not adequately describe the critical clinical features (as one of the authors of the chapter I can perhaps be allowed this criticism). Mr Bryant craves the attention of others. He desires relationships but fails to effectively communicate with others unlike the patients with Asperger's who are blandly indifferent to others. Mr Bryant also lacks, in my opinion, the central features of this condition which are repetitive activities, unusual skills with all absorbing obsessive interests and problems with motor coordination. He also showed marked delay in the acquisition of language skills and required remedial therapy for this language deficit which is contrary to the picture found in those with Asperger's Syndrome."

So, we have competing diagnoses about Bryant's possible Asperger Syndrome. The court determined Bryant's guilt, not which of the two diagnoses was most accurate. Still, history will remember Bryant as having been diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome by Sale regardless of whether Mullen's opinion overruled the diagnosis (which appears it didn't).

Perhaps the best resolution for now is to replace the Bryant citation (using the bio citation instead) within the WP list at its "Previously diagnosed on the autism spectrum" section. 2001:558:6008:3B:C468:57C:5F64:C0C1 (talk) 14:36, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

The court did not determine Bryant’s guilt, he pleaded guilty. Sale clearly did not subject Bryant to an IQ test (measured 66) thus Mullen quite correctly did overturn the miss-diagnoses of Asperger syndrome. Psychiatry is a highly criticized unscientific hypotheses thus psychiatrists get it wrong all the time, the diagnostic tools are better now than what they were then. For what it is worth, I lived near Bryant for nearly twenty years and was in the court when he changed his plea to guilty. Even the village idiot would describe Bryant as the village idiot. He did seem to be self-absorbed and out for fame, he may have fitted the criteria for narcissistic personality disorder presumably also running a comorbidity? The fall of pmpei (talk) 12:22, 3 October 2015 (UTC)