User talk:The joy of all things/Archive 7

Druridge Bay Country Park
Well done! Great addition to the encyclopaedia. Cheers DBaK (talk) 19:52, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you! The joy of all things (talk) 19:53, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

St Germain's Churchyard
Is it not common practice to put place, county, country. Redcar and Cleveland is only needed for atleast one occasion and even then the county is also listed. " St Germain's Churchyard Marske-by-the-Sea, is a large cemetery overlooking the North Sea, in Marske, Redcar and Cleveland, England. " Is a poor sentence; it links to Marske twice, too many commas and does not include North Yorkshire.

One link in the infobox needing to be re-added does not merit reverting back to a sentence like the above. Chocolateediter (talk) 15:21, 15 September 2021 (UTC)


 * What I said in the edit summary was this "Markse by the sea is in Redcar and Cleveland. I am starting to think you want to disrupt rather than be a help here. Why did you do this? the lead is there to include salient points about the article body, like it being a listed structure." I was referring to the infobox and the fact that the place isn't in North Yorkshire anymore. Additionally, like we are now doing, you should not revert my changes until we have discussed it (see WP:BRD). If the sentence is a bad one, then fine, but there was no need to remove the bit about it being grade II listed from the lead. I stated that in my edit summary and yet you still reverted. You have changed several articles this afternoon from Redcar & Cleveland, or Teesside to North Yorkshire, when they should not have that place listed as it changed in 1974.


 * However, I do take you point about mentioning Markse twice in the lead sentence. The joy of all things (talk) 15:37, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

"I was referring to the infobox and the fact that the place isn't in North Yorkshire anymore."

It’s is still in North Yorkshire, has been since 1996. North Yorkshire has two definitions one with York, Middlesbrough, Stockton (south Tees) and Redcar-and-Cleveland. The other definition is the North Yorkshire County Council area, post 2023 the North Yorkshire County Council area could move to "North Yorkshire (district)" like County Durham (district). The council name would be the same probably.

Come on keep up with 1996 changes, you are from Yorkshire and are an avid Wikipedia user, surely you should know these things.

Teesside has existed since 1968 with the odd prior reference, until 1974 it was most commonly styled as "Tees-side". The Northern Echo reference uses Teesside because that is what people known the area as currently, if you would like to put "what is now Teesside" put it in. I wanted to be specific as bombers would aim for industry and might end up hitting houses not just hit what is now Teesside willey-nilley. Chocolateediter (talk) 16:11, 15 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "I wanted to be specific as bombers would aim for industry and might end up hitting houses not just hit what is now Teesside willey-nilley". However the cite specifically states that the hospital "...was created because of fears over bombing runs on Teesside". If these places are now back in North Yorkshire, then I apologise. I knew Middlesbrough is/was, but there has been so much to-ing and fro-ing on here, never mind anywhere else, that I am unsure what is back in Yorkshire, and what isn't. So in that case, sorry.


 * However, when you are reverted, we discuss first, not revert back (WP:BRD), and removing salient points from the lead is not necessary; that's what the lead is for. I am sorry to say that we have locked horns over quite a few articles, so to be honest, I am a bit distrustful when you arbitrarily change things with no or very little in the way of edit summaries and remove things without explaining why. My distrustful nature I suppose, which I apologise for again. Perhaps longer edit summaries explaining why you are making the changes? Thanks?The joy of all things (talk) 16:35, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

I tend to do big edits, if I do multiple, I am guilt of slipping into short edit descriptions. If you look at edits through the day, it gets smaller. It is also the fear of making edit descriptions too long, on a mobile app it is one line so I have to drag for awhile if I make a mistake. I am always trouble with constant re-reading, left-handed so I write then look for smudges and fast writing cannot be done so it has spread to typing.

I do try to keep the main points of content if one small point is hidden in a lot of duplicate content it maybe missed.

My pedantic nature to governance is because I am from an even more pernickety area on the other side of Middlesbrough to Redcar and Cleveland. Yarm for instance in the 2011 census had areas north Tees and the main bit south, Stockton Borough the opposite. 1968-74 Tees-side county borough’s legacy has created a lot of none town areas that I have to refer in my head as townships, it is the only sane way.

I don’t blame the people from Yorkshire also in Yorkshire and the Humber not knowing. I do admit that I dislike Teesside as a name, so demeaning having with the negative strings attached and the constant spelling of it wrongly, to the point I think of it as Tea-sid. Just think under half of North Yorkshire’s population was/is in Yorkshire and not in North Yorkshire until 1996, that one tiny area with no Identification and an other area also South Tees is still in County Durham on the other side of Darlington. They is a tiny non-Yorkshire dales in North Yorkshire that is an exclave that would once have been with other parts of the North Riding. These days I can just say that people hypercorrect too much since 1974, some stuff since fixed some not. Maybe Cleveland through you off, Cleveland county was named after Cleveland, Yorkshire (area fully in Yorkshire that includes a part of the area), Redcar and Cleveland is named after the latter than former. Cleveland is like Elmet or Craven, a really old disambiguation for places with the same name that has somewhat mysterious (in this case Danish-Norse) origins.

Sorry about length of the reply, as I said pedantic and would probably go on all day about stuff. Marske is lovely by the way, mainly a place to walk that isn’t too resort-like, between Redcar and Saltburn. Welcome To Yorkshire pretty much calls Cleveland (also known as Langbaurgh wapentake) as North East Yorkshire, quite like that name. Chocolateediter (talk) 18:09, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Settle-Carlisle Page
Hi My apologies. I am very new to Wikipedia so not yet fully conversant with how to position items. I have removed all the pics added except the Scotsman so the map should (hopefully) now be in the correct position. No issues with such constructive comments :)

IDMacpherson1964 (talk) 17:11, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Aah, you didn't have to remove them all; I feel bad now! Anyhow, as you are fairly new, feel free to ask and I will try to answer any questions. Usually we like to keep conversations in one place, so I have left this here, but normally, if I leave a comment on your talk page, you respond to it there. Thanks. The joy of all things (talk) 18:43, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

New to this
Hi No need to feel bad; it's absolutely fine. I think what you said was important as there's no point in describing the route and then the map being down in Australia. No worries. Sorry, I'm not familiar with how to reply to these messages yet so my apologies if it's in the wrong place. IDMacpherson1964 (talk) 18:48, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Werrington Junctions.svg
Hi, you might like to know that your diagram of the new layout at Werrington Junction has been used by the Signalling Record Society in their latest journal - with attribution and everything. Nthep (talk) 11:53, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks, shame it's not really that good. I might look at updating it so it looks a little better. Regards. The joy of all things (talk) 11:54, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

GM & Essex Fire Service
I see you reverted the UK/England edits by an IP editor. I can see why for two reasons. 1) England is fine. 2) Country (UK) Part (England) is a bit clumsy as technically the UK is a sovereign state and England is a country within it. Not sure if you noticed but the IP did this to every fire service article in the UK. What are your thoughts on reverting all of them? 10mmsocket (talk) 18:36, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * To be honest I would prefer England, for the same reasons you state. To be honest I didn't look further as I do not have all the fire services on my watchlist, having culled lots of pages due to having over 12,000 pages on there. The first edit I did, the IP had changed it to Untied Kingdom, not United, so I rolled it back. The second I changed to England, but I ran out of time to check any others. Sorry. But yes, I agree, England is better for the English ones, Wales for Welsh etc. Regards. The joy of all things (talk) 18:44, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Perfect. I will revert the changes and ping you back if there's any sort of subsequent edit warring. 10mmsocket (talk) 18:52, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Happy days. Ta. The joy of all things (talk) 18:57, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * All done. The IP had only changed about half the article. All four countries' fire & rescue articles now consistent. Thanks for the prompt to action. 10mmsocket (talk) 19:41, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

North Bay Railway
Hello, wondered if you could have a look at this edit again. There is a problem with the season cannot guess what is meant. Thanks. Keith D (talk) 23:02, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
 * , Thanks Keith, major typo there! Have corrected it now. Regards. The joy of all things (talk) 08:57, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Burden of proof impossible to resolve
Note that the claims Azeem made about the inefficacy of the investigation sound well-founded. In line with institutional or corporate racism civil cases raised in Europe and the US, the burden of proof on the plaintiff is an easy way to get dismissal of claims. This will largely be because racial slurs are used directly at one person by another. That means when the claimant calls out the slur, often the only person who can corroborate the incident is the accused racist. If they deny it happened and there are no independent witnesses, the challenge can be dismissed with ‘insufficient evidence’. If the comment or action took place within a crowded area or board room where others also support the racist comments/viewpoint - those witnesses will likely ‘not remember’ or will fail to corroborate the victim’s version of events. This is the very nature of institutional racism - so how can it be proven? The tone of text on this page seems unbiased, but it could take an additional note of this tautology at the heart of this investigation into his claims. Mythophobe (talk) 20:04, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

NOMIS2001 links
Hello, I was wondering if you could check out the links created by the NOMIS2001 template. I am just getting a "Please wait... Loading areas" for these and wondered if it was a general problem or just me. The NOMIS2011 template links work OK. Keith D (talk) 22:08, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi, hope you are OK? It's not just you; neither my laptop or mobile can get past the "please wait". Normally it states that message for about three seconds and resolves, not tonight though. Regards. The joy of all things (talk) 22:17, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I am OK at the moment, I will be coming up to Hull for the Christmas/New Year period so will be without internet. Thanks for taking a look. Will have to see if it is an ongoing problem or if there is something we need to do to resolve it. Keith D (talk) 22:22, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I have had a response from them on this and the main links are working again.
 * "Hi Keith"


 * "Apologies for the problem and thanks very much for reporting."


 * "We have identified and fixed the issue that was causing the report to fail. I have tested the report and identified that there is still one issue: the 'query dataset...' link at the bottom of each table is not working. I've logged a new issue for this. The rest of report itself should be working normally again, including the report you identified:"


 * "https://www.nomisweb.co.uk/sources/census_2001_ks/report?compare=00FB118"


 * "We would appreciate if you could check the report and confirm whether you are happy that it is working correctly again so that we can sign off the issue as resolved."


 * "Kind regards,"
 * "Sinclair"
 * Keith D (talk) 17:52, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * , Thanks Keith. Regards. The joy of all things (talk) 20:15, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Old Lindley
Similar to Blackley, West Yorkshire that you improved do you think that Old Lindley merits an article? Especially given that its in the Domesday Book and its moor.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 19:07, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for stopping by. I am unsure, I personally would like several reliable cites, and at the moment I am on my mobile. I need to have a proper search. If you feel like giving it a go, please do. Thanks. The joy of all things (talk) 19:12, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll see what other sources I can find over the next few days.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 19:14, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * bizarrely, I am stood next to my bookshelf and the hamlet's name derives from Old English Līn-lēah, meaning meadow where the flax was grown.
 * Yes with 'Old' to distinguish from Lindley per the KEPN source.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 19:27, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Hardraw photo
You say here that you are not sure it's better? Well, I am, in about 9 different ways! Good job, cheers, DBaK (talk) 17:18, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Nine different ways? Wow. Also, thanks for sorting out the conversion on the RRH Brizlee Wood page. The joy of all things (talk) 17:34, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
 * You're very very welcome. Well, I did say about nine, but yes, it's just a huge improvement. And you're also welcome re the Windy Wood. Cheers DBaK (talk) 17:43, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Old Lindley
I've started a draft behind the redirect for Old Lindley, if you have any other content you can add it. A reliable source for the alternative name "Over Lindley" would also be helpful as I can find unreliable ones but not reliable ones.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 20:03, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Article has now been created, thankyou for you're input.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 10:14, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I cannot find a ref for Over Lindley - next time I am at the library, I will research the Place names of Yorkshire and see what comes up. The joy of all things (talk) 10:17, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I've added Malcolm Bull's Calderdale Companion which while it may not be the most reliable as it seems to somewhat be a blog like website it seems OK for the statement in question but yes if you can find another that would be helpful, thanks.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 10:20, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Actually - I have managed to find the right book - "The place names of the West Riding of Yorkshire by A H Smith, which doesn't include a reference to Old, or Over Lindley. So it must be in the one covering the Morley Wapentake (which includes Halifax), as this Lindley is on the north side of what is now the M62. The joy of all things (talk) 12:05, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Rivelin Dams - Was or were
I am about to revert your change to my contribution to Rivelin Dams. (→‎Rivelin tunnel: grammar) There were many towers in the series of sighting towers, but only one series of towers, not many. 109.148.86.205 (talk) 09:45, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for letting me know. Don't understand, so I won't revert. It just looks and sounds wrong. Regards. The joy of all things (talk) 10:08, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

123 SIGNALS UNIT - REVERSION
The source I quoted IS the official record of the unit as seen at the UK National Archives at Kew, London. It was NOT possible for 123 Signals to be involved as stated by Aldrich because the unit hadn't even been formed by then. His source is SUSPECT. My edit was not an opinion (OR RESEARCH) but quoted fact. Rafhabbaniya (talk) 17:45, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Let's be clear; I am not saying you are wrong. Aldrich is a published non-primary source. It has been through an editorial process. You removed it for a primary source. I told you then to take it to that talk page and link to the TNA source. In the text, it does not mention dates, merely that 123 and 276 ran a GCHQ station at Habbaniya. No years are given so what you said It was NOT possible for 123 Signals to be involved as stated by Aldrich because the unit hadn't even been formed by then doesn't apply anyway as there is no date range in that section. Feel free to revert, but please provide a reliable source, because the operational record books are not always accurate. Neither will Aldrich be, but if that cite states they did, but the TNA makes no mention, doesn't mean they didn't. Lots of things the RAF have done did not make it into the record books. Regards. The joy of all things (talk) 18:25, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Allan Grimson
I noticed you created the Allan Grimson article. An editor keeps removing content that was added by a previous user. It's all sourced fine and they just seem to have no reason to revert it all. Though as a Grimson expert you might be able to assist.

Frazzerex Frazerrex (talk) 15:14, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Haven't looked at the article in ages... seems like a disagreement between you and the other editors(s), for which I can see no reason to get involved in, sorry. Seems a bit like WP:CANVASSING to me...? Regards and good luck. The joy of all things (talk) 19:45, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - March 2022
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Nomination for deletion of Template:Railways around King's Lynn
Template:Railways around King's Lynn has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 16:23, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thanks. Will look at the Tait paragraph later. Best wishes. The joy of all things (talk) 18:52, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - April 2022
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WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - May 2022
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Worth Valley (dale)
Hello, thanks for creating Worth Valley (dale) article. There is a couple of ref errors if you could have a look at fixing them when you get the time. Keith D (talk) 01:14, 24 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Keith. I have hopefully sorted them now. Regards. The joy of all things (talk) 09:12, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, looks as that has fixed the problems. Keith D (talk) 17:31, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

A brownie for you!

 * Ta, but I am still on it; this will keep me going! Thanks. The joy of all things (talk) 19:29, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - June 2022
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09:26, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

DEFAULTSORT for churches
<!--Hallo, I noticed that has changed the DEFAULTSORT of St Chad's Church, Far Headingley from "Far Headingley, Saint Chad's Church" to "Saint Chad's Church, Far Headingley". Digging into the page history I find that you established the "Far Headingley..." sortkey in 2018. Fuddle has changed many such sortkeys today. Is there a guideline, policy, discussion, anywhere about this which establishes our practice for DEFAULTSORT for (UK?) churches one way or the other? I've asked Fuddle to stop making these changes while I look into this. I was going to ask at WikiProject UK geography and WikiProject Architecture, then managed to track you down as the editor who'd set this sortkey, so thought I'd start here.

My own view is that while the placename may be appropriate for categories comprising churches only, and can of course be added within those categories in the article, it might be better to leave the DEFAULTSORT at the article title (but with "St(.)" expanded to "Saint"), so that in general categories the article files in an unsurprising place, but I'd be interested to know where it's been discussed in the past. Practice seems pretty inconsistent: see Category:Grade II* listed churches in West Yorkshire and Category:Anglican Diocese of Leeds (though some of those may, like St Chad's, have been changed today). Thanks. Pam D  08:01, 7 June 2022 (UTC)


 * I've now pinged, who created Old St Ann's Church, Warrington (picked at random from Fuddle's edits of today) in 2008 and gave it the DEFAULTSORT of "Warrington, St Ann's Church" from the start, so this is clearly a long-established practice. Pam  D  08:13, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi PamD; this is a practice that I have picked up from editing RAF Stations. When you view the category (whatever that might be), there is a potential that they all end up under the same letter. IE; the Category, Category:Royal Air Force stations in Yorkshire, without the DEFAULTSORT key, all end up under the letter 'R', as they begin with an R in the RAF. I just did the same with churches, as the official name of each church is Church of FOO, so they would all end up under 'C'. To avoid this, I have separated them by geography, following a tradition in other Category pages. As far as I am aware, there has been no discussion, just to me it's common sense. Happy to have a discussion, and to fall in line with a consensus. But to me, the geographical place takes precedent over name, otherwise we will have a massive list under 'C' and 'S' in the church category, given how many churches are named after a saint or other. Regards. The joy of all things (talk) 08:40, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * As an example, see Category:Royal Air Force stations in Oxfordshire - RAF Kingston Bagpuize appears under the letter 'R' instead of 'K'. Regards. The joy of all things (talk) 08:44, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for involving me. It's a long time since I wrote a church article, and when I did, there seemed to be no policy on this matter.  Some used Saint... or St...., some used the name of the dedicatee, others used the location.  I thought that the last option was the most sensible, as in the example given by PamD.  The other options seemed to have little point, or to cause a muddle. --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 14:03, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, all. I was being bold and here is my rationale:
 * There's nothing in the documention for DEFAULTSORT that discusses sorting by place.  What is there is spelling out abbreviations.
 * If churches need to be sorted by place, then we may need subcategories.
 * Don't worry about how many articles are in a given section of a category. Think of a book's index that has no such anchors. People understand alphabetical order.
 * Grade I listed churches in Dorset is in strict alphabetical order and it is fine. No one will be confused by it. Fuddle (talk) 14:47, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Conversely, there is nothing in the DEFAULTSORT guidance saying not to use a geographical separation. So if we are not separating by location, why do we even need a defaultsort? The template says that we don't need it if we have no need tp sort it differently from its article name. Template:DEFAULTSORT. The joy of all things (talk) 15:48, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * To remove initial articles and to spell out abbreviations. Otherwise, a given article doesn't need one.
 * I suspect that the policy of sorting churches by place was started in the early days of wikipedia when many users didn't fully understand categories and wanted to provide some organization. It is well-intentioned but counterproductive.  Users shouldn't need ESP to know that a given category is alphabetized a certain way.  Alphabetization and categorization are different things.
 * I also recently removed several like.
 * Fuddle (talk) 16:40, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, on the blue whale sort I completely agree. On the others, meh. My reasoning is cosmetic, as in it looks nicer, so I won't get upset about it. The joy of all things (talk) 19:00, 7 June 2022 (UTC)


 * This issue has been debated on Commons several times, the current consensus is to use location but this is controversial.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 21:14, 7 June 2022 (UTC)


 * could you link to one of those discussions please? Pam  D  21:17, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Commons:User talk:Motacilla, (lots of general discussion) Commons:Commons:Village pump/Proposals/Archive/2018/09 section 4 (original consensus in 2018), Commons:Commons:Village pump/Archive/2020/05 (2020 discussion that you, Pam participated in) and User talk:Ulamm (March 2022). The arguments in favour of location are generally that most readers will know the location but few will know the dedication, arguments against are generally that the location isn't the name and it opens the door to sort other things by disambiguator etc.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 21:29, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I feel that if this is going to go the distance, it should be moved away from my talk page, and into the appropriate forum for discussing this. Hosting it on my talk page limits others getting involved, and if we ping them all, then it risks the page getting seriously long. Thanks. The joy of all things (talk) 21:34, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

I thought that the well-established consensus was to sort by the name of the church rather than location. See previous discussions here and here. There may be more recent discussions. RAF stations are not a close parallel - unlike names of churches, names of RAF stations have a standard format, perhaps more akin to a ship (SS), and sorting follows the guidance in WP:SORTKEY ("In some categories, sort keys are used to exclude prefixes that are common to all or many of the entries"). If churches are sorted by location, why not schools or hospitals?

But where a church article has the title Church of St X, rather than St X's Church, I would sort by Saint X's Church.--Mhockey (talk) 03:30, 8 June 2022 (UTC)--> Please do not comment here - the discussion has been moved to Wikipedia talk:Categorization. Thanks. The joy of all things (talk) 03:46, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Conisbrough Viaduct
Hi, I stumbled across your excellent work and wanted to say how nice it is to find someone else who finds these things interesting! I have a few books on related subjects so I'll see if I can find anything you haven't when I get chance. Have you considered adding it (and any other recentish creations) to The 10,000 Challenge? Best, HJ Mitchell &#124; Penny for your thoughts? 20:59, 9 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Completely unaware of the 10,000 Challenge! Regards, The joy of all things (talk) 21:22, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - July 2022
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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:07, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Brafferton railway station
In the history box at the foot, Pilmoor is shown as "Line and station closed". The station is indeed closed, but the line is open. Can you investigate, please.

Xenophon Philosopher (talk) 15:41, 4 July 2022 (UTC)


 * The line between Brafferton and Pilmoor is closed. The line through Pilmoor station site which is the ECML is open, but Brafferton to Pilmoor was on the former railway through Boroughbridge is closed. The rails were lifted in 1964. The joy of all things (talk) 15:54, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Indeed I was thinking of the ECML in the wrong context as you quite rightly say.

Xenophon Philosopher (talk) 17:04, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Hutton Gate
Blimey! Well done! I lived round the corner and I've caught the train to Middlesbrough from there quite a few times, then it shut and we crossed the trainless level crossing to school every day, and could eventually ride our bikes on the track N of the station ... and I keep an affectionate eye on the article. Thank you for improving it. Cheers DBaK (talk) 15:11, 3 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Ta. Someone put a tag on it, so I thought I'd have a crack. Regards. The joy of all things (talk) 16:13, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Seconded. I commuted from there to Middlesbrough while at school in Hartburn, ca. 1959-61. Narky Blert (talk) 06:57, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

DEFAULTSORT
I don't know why you removed the space in DEFAULTSORT for Suzy Paine, but the documentation suggests you're plain wrong; see WP:DEFAULTSORT. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:14, 10 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Oh. Or I'm completely wrong, and you were adding a space. (Sorry: the edit comment suggested to me you were removing. My bad.) --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:16, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
 * No worries. Happy editing. The joy of all things (talk) 06:32, 10 September 2022 (UTC)