User talk:Thenagus

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Egalitarian Socialist Party
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thanks for writing this article. Unfortunately it doesn't conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines for new articles. However, please do not be disheartened by what may happen to your first article, if indeed it is deleted. Please continue to edit Wikipedia and add articles which conform with the inclusion criteria. For more help, see Help:Contents and to find out what will probably be deleted, see Criteria for speedy deletion. Thanks, and if you have any questions, please ask them on my user talk page. To do this, click on my name (just after this sentence) and click discussion at the top and then the (+) button at the top. David Schaich Talk/Cont 18:06, 7 November 2006 (UTC) -David Schaich Talk/Cont 18:06, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Egalitarian Socialist Party
Adding personal messages (SPAM) to Wikipedia articles ("This political party is a legitimate political party in the United States. If you are interested in joining the newly created Egalitarian Socialist Party, visit our Online Community.") is considered to be vandalism (see Vandalism. Please stop adding this message to the page QuiteUnusual 22:58, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Egalitarian Socialist Party
I agree that the blurb about joining the party was a mistake, but when certain users state that the page is a 'school project' and not a legitimate site, then tries to have the page deleted, I feel that I must show viewers the parties legitimatcy by directing them to our online community. This page has been around for approximately 6 months without trouble, we have approxiimately 150 members across the United States. Now, all of a sudden users are trying to have the parties wikipage deleted. Interesting enough, some of those users are admittedly members of other political party.

Since I do not see a valid reasoning for having the page deleted, I can only assume that this is an attack against our parties freedom of speech.

thenagus - 23:09, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I never said it was a "school project" -- those are your own words. I said it looked like something "made up in school one day" (a well-known phrase around here), because I was (and still am) unable to find any reliable evidence that it actually exists.  I'm sure you understand that people often try to put jokes and hoaxes on Wikipedia -- that doesn't mean this organization necessarily is one, but there does need to be evidence to establish that it is not.


 * I stand corrected, you did not say that the artical was a school project, but you implied that it was, when in fact it is not!


 * I do understand that their are those who do SPAM/joke/hoax on Wikipedia, but my obvious replies and constant updating of the page, even to repair damange done by other users, shows an active interest in my political party.


 * I'm confused as to which "page" you are talking about. The article itself has only been around since July, and you are the only person who has made significant contributions.  I'm not sure how long the "online community" has been around, but it only lists one member, presumably you, and six messages, all from the same person, all in the last two months.  If you can give a source verifying the 100 members, you would have a better position than you do now, but probably not enough to establish the party's notability.


 * When I used the word "page", I was actually refering to the parties Artical.


 * I am the founder of the party, and being such, I do most of the online promotions and publications, including 'the artical' on wikipedia. As the party grows, and our memberships knowledge base grows, their are sure to be additional contributors to the parties Wikipedia Artical.


 * The Online Community is rather new as well, and as of yet, does not have any members, but as you may know political parties memberships are NOT solely based of those who are online. Secondly, I could say the same about your afillated 'Socialist Party'; they to do not post their membership.


 * The deletion process only seems "all of a sudden" because until now very few people knew the article even existed. That changed when you added it to List of political parties in the United States, which brought it to our attention.  The fact that it managed to fly under the radar for a few months doesn't mean that it deserves to remain on Wikipedia.


 * Now that is blantently untrue, if you review the 'Articals' history, you would see that the link to and from the List of political parties in the United States was added immediately upon the creation of the parties artical. The request to have my parties artical deleted was made only after I updated and corrected some spelling errors within the last week.


 * I'm all for socialism and egalitarianism. I and the other Wikipedians voting for deletion are not attacking this party, if indeed it does exist; we are simply stating our belief that its Wikipedia article is not up to the project's standards.  This has nothing to do with the party's positions or its freedom of speech -- it has to do with whether or not it actually exists, and if so, whether or not it is notable enough to belong on Wikipedia.


 * As I have mentioned the party is still in its infancy, and does not have a large membership. Also as time progesses more information can be added to the parties Wikipedia artical, including events and conferences conducted by the party which woiuld make the party is notable to be on Wikipedia.


 * I would also like to point out that their are other parties who are not active, nor do they include anythin (I feel) is notable. Those parties have not been sought after for deletion.


 * On the deletion discussion page I linked to a few policies and guidelines that you might want to check out, since they outline some of the "valid reasonings" for deleting this article: WP:NOT, WP:V, WP:NFT, WP:HOAX and WP:ORG. According to those policies and guidelines the page will be deleted, unless you can cite reliable, verifiable sources establishing the group's existence, significance and notability.


 * I will review each of those articals you mentioned, but if my party is deleted, then all other parties who have not had a candidate listed on any ballot is equally not notable, and should also be deleted.


 * As you may agree, one persons view of what is notable is different from that of another. Given this, who can say that a parties legitimatly is notable.


 * You may wish to add your comments to the article's deletion discussion page, since more people will read that than will come across this discussion here.


 * I hope that you don't take the deletion process personally, because there's nothing personal about it. We all hope you remain an active contributor to the Wikipedia project.  Please feel free to talk with me if you have any more questions or concerns.  -David Schaich Talk/Cont 23:49, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I will not take any comments/actions "personally"; my comments are made based on the belief that the party is illegitimate and that the parties artical should be deleted.
 * Thenagus 00:34, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

It's generally less confusing to keep comments from different people separate, so I'll address some of your concerns down here. I'm sorry about the "school project" misunderstanding. It was not my intention to imply that this is a school project, as you'll see once you read through WP:NFT. Your updating of the article tells us nothing about whether or not it is a hoax -- only reliable, verifiable, third-party sources can do that.

Though it's irrelevant, I'll note that the Socialist Party USA has its membership numbers posted both on its Web site and in its Wikipedia article.

I think you misunderstood what I said about List of political parties in the United States -- it's not the link on the Egalitarian Socialist Party article that matters, it's this edit you made to List of political parties in the United States itself two days ago that I was referring to. I did look through the July-August history of List of political parties in the United States just now and couldn't find any earlier addition of the ESP than that one two days ago. It's quite possible I missed it -- if so please feel free to point it out.

Once the party is notable, it can have an article on Wikipedia. However, if it is not yet notable, it should not yet have an article on Wikipedia. That's the way Wikipedia works -- it is an encyclopedia, not a soapbox or an indiscriminate collection of information. I'm well aware there are many articles on Wikipedia that deserve to be deleted; this is often pointed out to argue for retaining other articles that also deserve to be deleted. The reply is always the same: other articles have no bearing on this one; if there are other articles you think should be deleted, nominate them for deletion.

The deletion discussion page is the forum where all Wikipedia editors are invited to meet to form consensus on what to do with these problematic articles -- it is the community as a whole, in articles for deletion discussions, that can say whether or not a party is legitimately notable. I again encourage you to comment there, since having such a discussion is the whole purpose of the nomination for deletion process. If you refrain from commenting there, you are silencing yourself and your views on what is notable, for no good reason. -David Schaich Talk/Cont 01:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Infobox Egalitarian Socialist Party
Template:Infobox Egalitarian Socialist Party has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. cholmes75 (chit chat) 17:15, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

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