User talk:Threeafterthree/Archive 8

Seeking to have you blocked
Unfortunately, after so many attempts to get you to stop deleting this material, I don't see any other practical course of action other than to seek administrative action. Please be advised I have requested that you be blocked from editing the Palin article due to your ongoing and repeated deletions. Sorry it had to come to this. Factchecker atyourservice (talk) 20:17, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Factchecker atyourservice, why don't we seek some type of dispute resolution rather than this? --Tom 20:26, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * At no time have you given any indication that you were amenable to discussion or compromise. You have simply deleted it over and over and over again. Even while "seeking comment" in an RFC you have just continued to delete the material. Frankly, I only have limited time to edit Wikipedia and cannot afford to waste time in arbitration with someone who is simply trying to toss out roadblocks with no intention of stopping the problematic behavior. Your conduct has warranted blocking multiple times, and I have let it slide -- and the result has just been more work for me, undoing your continued deletions. On top of that, we held discussion on this for weeks and all you really said was "this goes in the Fannon bio" while repeatedly deleting it. It's disingenuous to now claim that you seek discussion. Factchecker atyourservice (talk) 20:43, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I still think that we should get others involved, especially dis-interested parties if possible. --Tom 20:46, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * "Seek and ye shall find" did not work for FCays. Per Mr. Connolley : Many of the edits that you adduce as evidence of misdeed predate the consensus you point to. No vio. This is a content dispute; both sides are reverting and are equally liable to block. Your consensus can be re-opened; sorry if thats frustrating. Further discussion on the article talk, please William M. Connolley (talk) 21:53, 24 November 2008 (UTC) "  Collect (talk) 22:01, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

edit warning at Sarah Palin
Be aware that you are edit warring at Sarah Palin, and if necessary, you may be blocked to stop the disruption. Note that edit warring does not include exceptions for being "right", so that is no defense of your actions. Stop repeatedly reverting the article, and instead use the talk page to work out your differences. --Jayron32. talk . contribs 17:51, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Jayron32, I have tried to use the talk page with very little success. I have also tried a RFC. Could you please suggest other dispute resolutions? Thanks, --Tom 18:58, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You never use the discussion page for discussion. You just keep repeating the same stuff about a non-existent Fannon page. You talk about discussion just for show.Jimmuldrow (talk) 02:40, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The RFC is meaningless when you continue deleting the material you are seeking comment on. I also want to point out that when you say you "tried" the talk page, you simply stated your brief opinion over and over while deleting the entire section yourself, ignoring the discussion the rest of us engaged in, and ignoring the compromise the rest of us reached -- which you have been deleting ever since. Factchecker atyourservice (talk) 20:05, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Factchecker, you keep repeating that consensus was reached and the archives just don't support that. --Tom 20:31, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Which archive? And is any archive more current than the fact that the issue seemed to be settled until recently?71.225.223.143 (talk) 21:35, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I pointed out which archives on the talk page. --Tom 22:13, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

WP:ALSO and Stephen Colbert
I'm not sure how the layout guidelines would require removal of the section. I'm not a regular editor on the article and saw it on my watchlist. I figured I'd ask you if there's been a change in policy or what the scoop was in regards to the revert. Ramsquire (throw me a line) 21:19, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Ramsquire, the 1st entry is listed above the lead and is unneccessary. The 2nd entry should be worked into the article if relevant. I will review this and use the talk page. Unfortunately, a bad faith editor, not you, doesn't like my editing so. --Tom 13:24, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Response here .--The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 23:32, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Removing categories from Matt Drudge
Hi, I had a look at WP:CAT but did not see an obvious reason why the categories you removed were unacceptable. Please explain. ► RATEL ◄ 22:20, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Sarah Palin
Could you please explain how reinserting clear personal attacks onto a talk page does anything to help improve the encyclopedia?-- A ni  Mate  22:31, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi AniMate, I reverted comments removed by another editor. I didn't think these were really that bad, but the editor who wrote them actually deleted them him/herself, which is better. I agree that personal attacks and off topic blather should be removed from talk pages since they are not open forums for whatever. Anyways, no biggie. --Tom 14:35, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Transylvania
Hi! This text is in the public domain, so I simply copied it here from the website of the Library of Congress. I don't think it needs changes. Squash Racket (talk) 14:58, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Squash, I certainly don't want to get involved in a content dispute in this article since I know zip about it(even though that usually doesn't slow me down) I was more trying to copy edit for neutrality and readability of the text. I do not believe I radically changed the emphasis of the material since that was not my intent. Anyways, again, I have no "side" on this since I know zippo about the facts or the "truth". Cheers! --Tom 15:03, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

About talk pages
I'll use the short time I have, trying to make you aware of not interfering with other editors comments on talk pages. Surely you can do whatever you want on yours, no questions ask. Gosh, do you need some more cookies? I'll provide them for you if you need them (to also stay on good terms with each other as long as you want to and aren't just looking for competition or such...  :). Regards from --The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 22:28, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

PS: Will write you more about the previous "non-issue" when I'm fully back.--The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 22:28, 29 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey The Magnificent Clean-keeper, is there a specific difference you are talking about? If people post general commentary or attackful posts, or off topic nonsense ect, I will remove them since talk pages are not just forums where anything goes. Please see WP:TALK. I usually try to give quite a bit of slack in this area because one man's attack can be another man's praise or something like that? Anyways, --Tom 22:35, 29 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Response here .--The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 23:33, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

BIO leads
Please don't edit war on these, per WP:BRD. I looked at the changes you made, accepted a large number of them, and selectively reverted or changed those that do not make sense. Obviously I do not agree with a number of your edits. The process should be to discuss and understand, not to revert-in changes. I don't think the end result of a thoughtful process on article construction would be to replace all specific statements of residency and fields of endeavor with simple statements of the nation of citizenship. Thanks, Wikidemon (talk) 18:49, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * MOS seems pretty clear on this unless Iam missing something. The lead should include nationality and what the person is notable for. After that, you can get into "smaller" details, but this seems to be generally accepted for bios. Maybe take this to the MOS board or to the biography board for other imput? --Tom 18:52, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

December, 2008
You seem to be edit warring across multiple articles on this point, to insert edits that do not have a consensus. On several of those articles (e.g. this one you are at WP:3RR and risk a policy violation by continued reverting. Please stop, as asked.  As an experienced editor I hardly need to tell you this, but if you continue to edit war you are subject to a short block to prevent disruption to the encyclopedia. Wikidemon (talk) 18:57, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, I see you have reverted to 3RR on all of your proposed edits. I will ask you to self-revert and take it to the talk page, in some centralized place if need be.  Otherwise I am going to take this to AN/I as disruption.  Thanks,  Wikidemon (talk) 18:59, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I suggested this be discussed at biographies board and will do that. --Tom 19:02, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Please self-revert. If you don't, I will at some point pending a resolution - when editors disagree you shouldn't try to get your way on Wikipedia by simply being the most apt to edit war.Wikidemon (talk) 19:06, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Give me a sec, I am trying to post to the biographies board, thanks, --Tom 19:08, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * See this. I should also post on the MOS page. --Tom 19:24, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I see it. You've noticed a dispute but not started a discussion.  It's not a BLP issue, and the question is how to word specific articles rather than what MOS should be.  Again, please restore the articles to their previous version and wait for consensus when your edits are challenged.  Wikidemon (talk) 19:33, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Also posted here. Hopefully others will chime in.--Tom 19:35, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) Wikidemon, since you are the one who disagrees with the intention of MOSBIO, you should gain consensus for your version of the articles it seems. --Tom 19:37, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * As for who has the "right" version I contend that mine are clearly superior in the cases I reverted. I can stand back too and proclaim that you are the one who has a problem with our encyclopedic standards but such talk is pointless.  You are proposing a disputed mechanical mass edit to a series of articles I have worked on that have been stable for some time.  You therefore need consensus to make your changes and should not edit war to put your version in place.  You have set up as a fait accompli by bullying in your edits  then telling me I am supposed to gather consensus to override you.  As such the premise of your dispute notice is off, and I do not accept that as a proper attempt at dispute resolution.  I will wait a while, perhaps a day, before restoring the stable versions.  Those stay unless you gain consensus for a change.  Use proper dispute resolution channels and not edit war further on them or this becomes a behavioral issue on your part, not a matter of article style.  Wikidemon (talk) 19:52, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I have posted on a notice board and the MOSBIO talk page. What other dispute resolution forums should we use? --Tom 20:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

warning
I have advised you against edit warring on these articles. If you continue, I will report you to WP:AN/I and you will probably be blocked from editing to avoid disruption. Wikidemon (talk) 21:34, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I haven't reverted any of the articles that we were going back and forth on. --Tom 21:36, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You are stalking and harassing me at this point. And yes, you have just expanded your edit war by reverting on yet more articles.   I am preparing an AN/I report rather than engaging you in edit warring.  Stop now and self-revert your disruptive edits, if you do not wish to be blocked.  Wikidemon (talk) 21:44, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

AN/I report
Because you have not responded to the above, I have filed an AN/I report at WP:AN/I in hopes that will stop you from edit warring on these bio articles. I hope and trust you will not continue to edit war while the administrators sort this out. Thanks, Wikidemon (talk) 22:34, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Providence meetup
The Providence meetup is today. The plan is to try to meet between about 4-6pm and we'll be ordering pizza around 5pm. Note, that I will be there during the entire 1-8pm, and anyone is welcome to stop by, but I thought a more specific time might make it easier for people to plan attending. See the talk page for more info and discussion. --mikeu talk 13:00, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

=GD it!! I totally forgot :(. I had it on my calander at work and then I completly forgot about it! Crap! Oh well, hopefully you had a good time and hopefully I can catch one in the future. Cheers! --Tom 13:59, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Note
Right, I understand your concern. The rule is basically in place to allow the dispute resolution process to take its course. I recommend taking advantage of our available avenues: Third Opinion or Request for Comment. Regards, Lazulilasher (talk) 17:13, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I will probably do that. Its too bad when editors tag team and claim talk page consensus when non actual exists as is the case here. Anyways, --Tom 17:15, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Writegeist
Yeah, I thought I could engage him openly and try and settle down the attacks being fired off, but I suspect you're right. At least anarchangel has seemed to calm down a little bit, but I suspect this is just a brief respite before he continues his edit warring.LedRush (talk) 20:49, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You are probably right. Cheers, --Tom 20:52, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

John McCain deletion
Hi. You made this edit, claiming the material isn't supported by the cite. Yet it clearly is supported by the cite. What gives? Can you please explain yourself? You must be aware that you are deleting a paragraph that was added after weeks of discussion and compromise, and you are entering into a new dispute. Yet the claim that the material is not supported by the cite has not yet been raised in talk. If you believe that to be the case can you explain that in talk? Thank you. csloat (talk) 20:14, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your response. I replied on the talk page of the article; thank you for contributing there.  I'm hoping we can reach resolution on this, but removal of the material completely is not acceptable.  I am happy to accept any rewording that brings the text closer to what is in the linked articles (in fact, I would prefer direct quotes). csloat (talk) 22:46, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Michelle Malkin "conservative"?
Hi. I've opened a discussion about whether the lede sentence in Michelle Malkin should label her as a "conservative" at Talk:Michelle_Malkin. For once, I disagree with you, so please go there and tell me if I'm wrong. (Perhaps the problem is related to the word "conservative", which in US politics means "advocate of change based on traditional values" more than "opposed to all change".)

BTW, you might want to change the Wiktionary link at the top of this page to http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/outwith (instead of .../Outwith).

Cheers, CWC 15:45, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi CWC, I will check out the MM talk page and join in there. I personally hate "labeling" individuals in the lead unless absolutely neccessary. How are most other bios handled, both liberal and conservative?? This isn't the biggest deal in the world so I should probably defer to others. I will also check on my talk page about outwith :) Cheers and happy New Years! --Tom 15:49, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

thanks
Appreciate it. KillerChihuahua?!? 17:46, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
 * No problemoe. --Tom 22:00, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

ce...is CopyEdit?
I promise I am not being cute but...does that mean just "I made an edit." or does it mean "I changed the wording but intended the meaning to stay the same." or ? If this is a silly question, my apologies, but it just isn't obvious to me. Thanks in advance for any response. :)sinneed (talk) 02:32, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Sinneed, I have my preferences set so I always need to use an edit summary. I use "ce"(yes, copyedit) as my "simplest" or "default" edit summary when I make an edit that I feel doesn't materially change the article but is more changing a word or phrase or whatever. Since you ask, I could probably use "better" or "more accurate" summaries but I'll admitt that I am sometimes lazy about it. I feel that about 1/2 of my editing is copy editing but a good New Year's resolution would be to use better edit summaries. Also, a review of WP:COPYEDIT tells me that I should also say WHAT ce I made. Actually, thanks for the comment since it does remind me that I should use "better" or more accurate edit summaries going forward and not just "cop"yedit "out" with "ce" :) Cheers! --Tom 04:21, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Meh. I am not sure you need to use the more longwinded summary very much for edits of that sort...Wikipedia needs literally millions of them.  Pros and cons to everything.  Thanks for the reply.  I should have said "Please feel free to reply here, I'll check back.".  All the best! :)  sinneed (talk) 04:48, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem. What does "meh" mean by the way, I've seen it before but never asked? Also, I patrol the BLP board so that is why I ended up at Polanski. I agree that "child rapist" or whatever does not belong in the lead sentence but in the lead section as it currently is. --Tom 04:55, 1 January 2009 (UTC)ps, its five minutes till midnight here on the East coast so I am off to bed. I never stay up for New Years :) Cheers! --Tom 04:57, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Meh. I consider it a verbal shrug.  IRL I use it and "Hrmmmm." to indicate that I am thinking or undecided or to exaggerate the act of pausing to think.  I find I think more slowly than other people, and if I just stare into space they think I have died or dropped into a coma or something (not quite but they get impatient).sinneed (talk) 05:06, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
 * And no, I didn't know what outwith meant. Fun.  I shared that one with my spouse. sinneed (talk) 05:08, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Ahh, I see, that makes perfect sense. The "stare" into space is funny :) My wife actually does that sometimes and I find that my daughter also does it sometimes(sort of freaky), so we call it the "Vartanian" stare for her maiden name :). Cheers,--Tom 16:29, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
 * All the best, and Happy New Year. sinneed (talk) 03:49, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Robert Eric Wone
An article that you have been involved in editing, Robert Eric Wone, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Articles for deletion/Robert Eric Wone. Thank you. Little Red Riding Hood  talk  08:48, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the notification, --Tom 16:25, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

JtP
Like your edit. Collect actually fought against calling him a "former plumber" at one time. Let's see if he leaves it alone. You have my full endorsement to fight for it. You might want to change the infobox as well for accuracy. The Sarah Palin article has similar language on her former broadcasting career if you need an example of how's it been done on Wikipeida. Mattnad (talk) 15:36, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I was more trying to change how the article read... was called a plumber during the campaign which was awkward and not totally acurate to say the least. I don't really have a dog in this so I will watch and jump in if necessary. Collect has been helpful on the Palin article. I don't know the history on JTP and probably don't want to. Cheers! --Tom 19:49, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Olbermann RFC
I'd appreciate your input on a RFC taking place on the Keith Olbermann talk page. Thanks. Badmintonhist (talk) 21:53, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

200YT
PLease read the Gimpelevich article before reverting.Galassi (talk) 16:14, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If its in English I will take a look. I am no expert on this material and don't even know what the "truth" is about this. Its more about the use of POV terms like "considerable" or "widely", ect terms. Sources should specifically say this or its open to interpretation or POV. --Tom 16:17, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Damage
With this edit you damaged the references. I revert back to where the reference section wasn't damaged. You always have to be careful and peek at the reference section after you hit "save page" or use the "show preview" button first. It is very easy to damage the reference structure with a misplaced bracket, or an unclosed ref tag. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 17:42, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * (ec)I use the preview button about 1/4 of the time to be honest. If that was what you were reffering to, then I apologize. I thought you were referring to my edits as damaging, not messing up the ref list :) Anyways, if there are any edits of mine that you have an issue with, please let me know so we can work it out either here, or preferrable on the article talk page so others can chime in as needed. Cheers! --Tom 17:47, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Bernard Goldberg
The Olbermann thing is being discussed on the Bernard Goldberg talk page. Do you have anything to add? Mark Shaw (talk) 14:00, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I just responded there. Your point about O'Donnell is spot on. Of course we don't include criticism from individuals who have a clear bone to pick(sorry the pun) unless that connection is clearly spelled out and put into context. Bios are suppose to be NPOV from 3rd party sources, not anything goes muckracking. Anyways, no biggie, --Tom 14:12, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Stalking
You appear to be following me. Keep up the * work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MichelleSBernard (talk • contribs) 18:18, 31 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Stalking? Thats a little strong :). If an artilce/bio does not make mention of a person's religion or ethnicity, please do not add a corresponding category about such to the bio. Pretty simple it seems. Also, can you please sign your posts with four(4) tildes(~)? Thank you, --Tom 18:26, 31 January 2009 (UTC)


 * No problem. I plan on going through more throughly the Jewish Journalists today or tomorrow and adding a couple hundred or so to the category.  I will stick to only those whose religion is already mentioned in the article - as I think I did for all but David Shuster.  I understand this is probably a personal issue with you, and you perceive it as antisemitism but the category clearly asks for help in populating it, and I did NOT create the category or add the request for populating it.  So far you and other users have not brought the discussion to the category, you have instead reverted my tags.  Thanks   MichelleSBernard (talk) 18:36, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Just a heads up, if a person's religion or ethnicity is already mentioned in the article, then its not a big deal to me to add the appropriate category. Some editors do not agree and they can speak for themselves. This really isn't a personal issue with me since I truly try to leave my POV at the door and actually "err" if anything counter towards my own beliefs and background when editing here. I am a deletionist/minimalist/removal of unsourced materialist for the record. Anyways, I try to assume good faith until there is clear evidence to the contraire, which I haven't seen yet. The category talk page would actually be a good place to discuss this and let folks know your intentions. Anyways, --Tom 18:44, 31 January 2009 (UTC)


 * You are adding a category that really isn't the correct one. If you know the person's nationality then it belongs there, not just "Jewish Journalist". This is not good. Another editor went around adding "jewish businessmen" to 100s of bios and ended up crashing and burning. Is there a point you are trying to make? Does this help. Again, before adding a category to tons of bios, I would gain concensus that it is helpful and proper so a lot of work is saved. --Tom 18:52, 31 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The category already exists. I am simply adding the tag to people who are members of the category.  The point that I am trying to make is to do work to make wikipedia more complete.  During the recent Gaza War I came here looking for a list of Jewish Journalists.  I found that category, and the Category said that it needs work to be populated.  I did work to help populate it. Thats all. MichelleSBernard (talk) 18:59, 31 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I believe this was discussed before, maybe I am wrong, that there was/is a category Jewish-American Journalists, which would be more specific. Anyways, this is a can of worms that I am sure others will know more about and will chime in shortly. I will probably have to bring this to one of the many boards that cover this type of editing pattern, Anyways, I will still assume good faith, but would suggest that we get others to imput in order to save alot of time in effort. If consensus is with you fine, but if not, then will see. --Tom 19:05, 31 January 2009 (UTC)


 * No problems. I obviously disagree with your viewpoint.  Please inform me what boards you posts to and I will be glad to follow whatever consensus is reached there. MichelleSBernard (talk) 19:11, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) Will do, --Tom 19:13, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep me posted also as I had a similar discussion. Thanks -- Econewbie (talk) 19:46, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I left messages at two users who have tons of experience on this and will await their replies. No problem, --Tom 19:48, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Bringing this discussion to 2 users who have an obvious Zionist bent is not the same as bringing the discussion to a neutral discussion board. You are basically self-selecting the jury to come up with the outcome that you want.  In that case I would not honor the decisions of those 2 users.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by MichelleSBernard (talk • contribs) 20:19, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If you want to suggest two admins without a "Zionist bent" that would be fine with me. What are we arguing about again? --Tom 00:51, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I really don't care to. But you suggested that we bring this to a neutral platform.  Who do you select as neutral?  Well you select a guy who has a posting that suggests we delete all lists that categorize Jewish people.  [] Yeah, great neutrality there.  I wonder what position he will take?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by MichelleSBernard (talk • contribs) 01:17, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It also appears this subject has been brought up before, and the argument favored in your proposal failed to gain consensus [] So please refrain from de-listing people when there are references in the article to support that the person is a Jewish Journalist.  Thanks, Michell, I will consider it to be vandalism, and I will to steps to report that vandalism to admins. MichelleSBernard (talk) 01:24, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know, Tom. MichelleSBernard, I've removed the insertions of this category from biographies of living people where it is was unsourced. Please do not return the categories to the articles unless you have proper sourcing for it, in the article itself. Thanks. Jayjg (talk) 02:37, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem Jayjg. MichelleSBernard, as I pointed out, as long as the category is sourced in the body of the article, I don't have a real problem with it. Hopefully this is resolved, but time will tell. --Tom 14:56, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Snowmobile
Hi,

In the article snowmobile you took out the genericized trademark "Ski Doo", the first mass production of this kind, but you left snowmachine and snowsled whitout asking for justifications. This is equivalent to say that Kleenex is not often used for paper tissue but that it can be called locally some obscur name. You have to be logical : either you leave the most common and obvious OR you take all the local names out.

Pierre cb (talk) 19:32, 31 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi Pierre, I am currently trying to figure out additions to Jewish Journalists and need to head to a pee wee hockey game momentarily so let me check this out in a few. My biggest gripe would be with what RS say. Do you have a source that says something like what you want in the article ie, Snowmobile are commonly referred to as Ski Doos or whatever the verbage was? I ended up at that article due to the Palin spotlight on them, so I am no expert. Again, I will look into the kleenex comparison and advise. Thank you! --Tom 19:37, 31 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I found a ref. that I've inputted. Pierre cb (talk) 19:52, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Back from hockey. I will have to check this out. How do other articles about products that have genericized trademarks treat them? Like Hot tub? Again, I would leave this out of the lead. I wonder if there is a wiki guideline about this? Sorry to ask, but have too at this point, but do you have any COI with this article? Also, is it really that important to have this material in the lead and not durther down? Many questions and such few time. Cheers, --Tom 00:56, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * After a quick look at the article genericized trademark, most of the products do not use the trademark name in the lead. Would you be open to moving it out of the lead sentence? Also, I will probably take this to the article talk page so others can comment. I will not revert for now but try to get others involved. --Tom 01:02, 1 February 2009 (UTC)ps see Gelatin dessert, it is in the lead but not the first sentnece. This might be the best compromise. Thoughts? --Tom 01:04, 1 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Hello again. I have nothing personally against taking this out of the lead but all mentions to local alternative names must be taken out too . Already, I have simplified sometime ago this part as some IP or users had put a larger number of them and were adding the region of use of each term. Pierre cb (talk) 01:29, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) Pierre, that sounds pretty reasonable. I might try to take a shot at rewriting the lead to define snowmobile in the first sentence and then in the second sentence cover the "alternate" names. --Tom 14:58, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Prop 8
Good compromise, leaving out Same-Sex Marriage as a "see also" but keeping Homophobia. I accepted that with just a few seconds thinking, seing how that was just right. So... Good diplomacy and compromising there. Just wanted to tell you :) Dendlai (talk) 17:04, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem. I actually posted to the talk page as well. I understand why people might link to homophobia, but I could also understand why not to include it since it might wrongly imply that people for Prop 8 are homophobs, not saying that some couldn't or wouldn't be. Anyways, will wait to see what others think. Cheers! --Tom 17:50, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

WP:Layout
Hiya. I reverted at Layout; I hope I understand what you were trying to do. I think you meant to signal that WP:EL is a shortcut that will take a person to WP:External links, but Template:Shortcut doesn't go on the page where you want to tell people about a shortcut, that template goes on the page where the shortcut points. (Watchlisting) - Dan Dank55 (send/receive) 17:06, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Dank55, Yeah, I see what I did, wrong as usuall. I was trying to match per the sections above, like in the See also section. Is there a way to do that I wonder? The road it hell is paved with good intentions :). Anyways, thanks for corrected that and posting here. --Tom 17:47, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank You!
re: The Larry Sanger 3O redact. Thank you so much for that edit summary! First great laugh I've had in all too long. Just wish I get out that easily. ;) — Ched (talk) 13:35, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem. I know its sometimes hard to step away from editing differences but it is best to do so from time to time to keep one's sanity :) The article/project will still be here and will still be open to revision/discussion. The best thing I have found is to get as many NPOV eyes involved as possible which can be difficult on "low level" articles or ones that are heated and divisive. I am not sure what the deal is here, but I have been involved in the past in regards to the Wikipedia co-founders "issue". I firmly believe that it is critical that Sanger's role as co-founder not be "bastardized" over time simple because he is no longer part of the project or simple because Jimbo now considers himself the sole founder. Anyways, good luck and stay cool. --Tom 14:36, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Introductions
Hi Three, I noticed that you had weighed in on a similar matter and I am wondering if you can take a look at Lee Strasberg and weigh in about the citation needed tags. The tags are applied to statements of gross generalities which should need citations to make them verifiable. Thanks. I5kfun (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 16:16, 5 February 2009 (UTC).
 * I generally agree and have commented so on the appropriate talk page, cheers! --Tom 16:36, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

WRT Huguenot diaspora
Or the sprinking of ca. 17th C. French Protestants emigrating to locales where Catholicism, instead of Protestantism, was suppressed (Switzerland cantons, the Netherlands, Northern Ireland, New England... ) and their contributing to each local gene pool. To me, Whatever: my not being of Hugenot descent; but were I to pride myself on such a background I might well view your lack of esteem for the category as "being a hater" towards those who'd find such a connection cool!  ↜Just me, here, now … 21:11, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Category:American Jews
Thanks for letting me know. In many cases the claim wasn't referenced, in others the person was already in a sub-category. I've reverted them all. Jayjg (talk) 02:28, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Threeafterthree: This is my first time editing Wikipedia; I was completely unaware of any preexisting issues with categorization and only edited in good faith- I had and still have no intention of furthering any of "this never ending nonsense." My goal was to make the pages I annotated easier to locate by adding them to "American Jews" - a category that many other pages are subsumed into. I still profoundly disagree with the idea of preferring specific categories of generals ones (isn't Alan Dershowitz both an American Jew and a Jewish-American writer? Why can't he found in both categories?) but will respect the wishes of the editors. I thank you for your time. 99.175.102.100 (talk) 10:56, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi no problem then. Unforetunately, the categorization of individuals has been very problematic to say the least over the past few years with a ton of "shananagians". I have given up on trying to read peoples minds or their intentions. Also, IP or anonymous editors are usually cut less slack, something I don't agree with or like, but just how it flows. Again, if your intentions were harmless, I apologize and wish you well. This project can be lots of fun I would not want to wish any good faith editor a hard time or discouragement from editing. Cheers and good luck! --Tom 13:31, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks
Tom,

Thanks for your support, and sorry to get you involved in any way with people who I consider to be very nasty. Hitting somebody with a sperm-filled pie just because you don't like his journalism - I can't imagine why anybody would consider that acceptable behavior. Bragging about it on Wikipedia - again, I can't imagine how anybody can do this. Not removing it when it's brought up at BLPN - impossible!

Well obviously, there's something about this that just gets to me.

Thanks again,

Idlewild101 (talk) 22:38, 13 February 2009 (UTC)


 * No problem. Just try to keep your cool. I have found that it is always helpful to get other folks involved and hope that the "correct" consensus forms. If it doesn't, that is just the way it goes. Try not to ever take things around here to seriously or personally. Good luck. --Tom 23:25, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I've changed the source on the Michael Wines article that you put in, to the one that looks most professional to me. The LA alternative paper looks like a smarmy frat boy article to me. But feel free to change it back if you think that the LA paper is better. I don't know how the Michael Wines deletion will go - probably keep - but I don't care much. I do think that the section in the eXile article is over the top and it has been growing even as people say minimize it. All the best. Idlewild101 (talk) 20:03, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Bernard Goldberg discussion
I appreciate your commentary here, but I have to object to your removal of other editor's text. I understand your objections on the grounds of WP:FORUM, but removing this material right now is, in my opinion, counterproductive. I'm restoring it. Mark Shaw (talk) 14:54, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Please don't. At some point it is best to stop feeding the trolls. --Tom 14:58, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, already done. Deleting their stuff gives them more ammo.  In addition, one of the two whose material you deleted actually agrees with us, if you hadn't noticed. Best to leave it, but attempt to get them to conform to WP:FORUM in later edits. Mark Shaw (talk) 15:04, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I did notice, but his forum comments about the article subject were not appropriate, especially from an admin. If the IP wants to discuss the article contents, no problem. His attack on other editors motives, ect is not appropriate for the talk page however. --Tom 15:07, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

FYI
Based on the theory that all you are looking for is another wikibreak, I escalated to ANI. See WP:ANI. --Hans Adler (talk) 20:33, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Hans, a warning here before going to AN/I would have been more proper, AN/I is pretty extreme and can be disruptive, cause should be clear and preceded by warning on the user's Talk before taking an issue like this there. --Abd (talk) 21:16, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Your "theory" Hans seems as sound as cold fusion :). ANI is WAY over the top, imho, but whatever. --Tom 00:13, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

February 2009
Consider yourself warned with regard to behavior described in WP:ANI. I thought that premature when I responded there, but your subsequent edits show that it might not be. --Abd (talk) 21:26, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Noted, thank you, --Tom 00:14, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Eagles fans
Hey, Tom.

I'm going to submit a request for a third opinion on the Eagles fans situation. I just put up my take on it, and I thought I'd let you know about it before I put the request in. —Bdb484 (talk) 03:34, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. Hopefully even more editors than that can take a look and help out. --Tom 13:30, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Matt the Knife
Regarding your edits to this page, most of them appear helpful, however you removed the phrase "as of 2006" with regard to Cassiere's number of Guinness world records. Clearly, this number is highly likely to change in the future (if it has not already), and needs a date associated with it. I added 2006 assuming the following references backed this fact up. If this is not the case, a new date (2009 if appropriate) needs to be added and a new reference cited that states this fact. Thanks, --Rogerb67 (talk) 22:01, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Rogerb67, I thought articles were to suppose to be "timeless" but I couldn't find that policy, go figure :). Anyways, I wouldn't mind terribly either way so no biggie. Also, you might want to add this comment to the article talk page, that ways others can comment as well. Cheers, --Tom 22:44, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Here's the policy on this type of thing that I can see; I think it applies here. WP:ASOF. I'll put a note on the talk. Cheers. --Rogerb67 (talk) 04:43, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Signature pic
Hi there, I was wondering if it would be okay to make a template for my signature given that under My Preferences there isn't enough room to code in my sig picture. My  President   is black  07:03, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Huh? I am not an administrator but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night :) Not sure what you are asking but I would refer you to WP:SIG and also say that being Bold is also ok. If it is a problem, somebody will hopefully advise. If this doesn't help or you need more direction let me know. Anyways, good luck, --Tom 14:03, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Whoops, my bad! Thanks for your help though (I haven't been to one of them in a long time)! My   President   is black  19:32, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

what does
"ce" mean as an edit summ? Codigo'll aka Huh? 03:10, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * copy edit. It is my usual "default" when making changes that hopefully aren't to feather rustling. If you have a specific edit, please let me know here or on the article talk page. Thanks, --Tom 15:17, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Nadia Styles
Why did you remove a reference and two external links from Nadia Styles? No reason was given. You left it mentioning her Christianity without any reference. Thanks. --TQ (talk) 19:53, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The citations were questionable imho and same for the externals links. Maybe take this to the article talk page. --Tom 00:00, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Questionable in what way? Thanks. --TQ (talk) 00:36, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Is the pinkcross.org a reliable source? Not sure. youtube links should be avoided as external links. Again, it is probably best to have this discussion on the article talk page so others can weigh in as well.--Tom 14:28, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Truce/Amnesty/Ignore/Detente
I don't know what got sand up your whatever, but can you lay off the reverts of my edits? It's sort of creepy.Jimintheatl (talk) 02:10, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * As I tell my students "It depends". Have you noticied that I have only reverted the edits which I "disagree" with you on and not every edit you make? I would also be happy to use the article talk page or this page more, even though I try to although you have accussed me of not doing that. I used to never edit "political" articles because I knew how "sided" they probably were, but I have found them to be interesting lately. Unfortuneately many articles, even ones you would never think of as having "sides", do have "sides" and I enjoy trying to find balance and defending a "side" even if I don't support that "side". Anyways, Tom 02:24, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Eric Holder article, Joe Conason
Hi Tom, nice to meet you. I put back in my sentence about Conason's column on the Israeli connection for the pardon of Marc Rich. It turns out that Conason is notable. I don't know whether his claim has validity or not, but it doesn't matter, I think, because his claim is quite different than anyone else's that's been heard from, and he's a wellknown journalist.(Although in fact I so far have believed Conason to be solid.) Best wishes, Rich (talk) 23:04, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe add it to the Rich or Conason article if anywhere. It probably really isn't notable unless it has been covered by multiple 3rd parties. Salon is probably not the best source for establishing noteworthyness. I will move this to the article talk page. Thank you, Tom 23:49, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Re a link for Salon article:Tom, I still haven't learned how to do links! I'm a recovering computerphobic.Rich (talk) 22:55, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll try to find it. Tom 23:45, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Blocked
I have blocked you for 48 hours to halt the edit warring at. You have performed more than three reverts in a 24 hour period to this article. If you wish to be unblocked before the block expires automatically, I would advise you to give an undertaking in your unblock request not to make further edits to article in question for the remaining duration of the block. Alternatively, ff you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text CIreland (talk) 14:33, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi CIreland, I just saw your comment on Jimintheatl's talk page. I can assure you that if I had requested to be unblocked, I would have promised not to edit that article for the duration of the block. This 3rr really was an oversight on my part(did you get my email?) and I was in the wrong, that is why I didn't request to be unblocked. I am sorry that Jimintheatl was blocked as well. I have opined in the past about whether blocks are punitive or preventive. Anyways no biggie, cheers, Tom 03:45, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Unblock request
Thank you, Tom 17:57, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Elisabeth Hasselbeck
What is "ce"? Y did u change the EH edit that I made? Thx. 70.108.119.213 (talk) 12:42, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi, "ce" means copy edit. I removed the specific details about individuals since they are not the focus of the article. I have also commented on the article talk page since that is the best place to have this discussion so others can chime in as well. Thank you, Tom 14:07, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Jonathan Pontell
I think Jonathan Pontell, the television producer and Jonathan Pontell the Generation Jones guy are two different people.... Do you have a source saying otherwise? --Knulclunk (talk) 21:24, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This is classic. I wasn't even drunk like i am now, go figure. No source what so ever. I stumbled onto generation jones which linked to the tv guy. Anyways, feel free to tag, revert, nuke, whatever. Once I sober up, hopefully I can fix it :) Cheers (literally), Tom 21:27, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

I cleaned it up, based on your note. Check it out.--Knulclunk (talk) 03:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * looks good. Thanks, Tom 03:44, 22 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the rewrite of the Pontell articlel. Do you have an opinion of the Generation Jones article that brought me to the Pontell article. He isn't the same guy, corret? Also, I just saw your message, we are posting at the same time. Also, I am sober now :). Thanks again :) Tom 03:40, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

My only problem with the Generation Jones article is when it slops over into other articles, like Baby Boomers and Generation X. Generation Jones is a fairly new concept (2001), coined by speaker Johnathan Pontell, who directly profits from it's popularity. Go check out his website. Almost any mainstream reference to Gen Jones mentions Pontell specifically and still has to define the concept as "the people who feel like they fall between Baby Boomers and Gen Xer's." All this is okay, but several editors have pushed to represent Gen Jones as a universally accepted fact that has replaced the previous, mistaken definition of Baby Boomers and push for the concepts inclusion throughout Wikipedia. --Knulclunk (talk) 04:08, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh crap. And I thought if we could straighten out Middle East articles and political bios Wikipedia would be free from agenda pushers? :) Maybe I shouldn't even bother to try. Drinking is looking more and more like a better alternative :) Seriously, thanks for the heads up and good luck. Tom 04:13, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Steven Brust
First off, you are aware that there's currently a dispute going with regards to identifications of ethnicity/heritage like "Hungarian-American". It is not acceptable to use an opaque edit summary like "ce" when what you are actually doing is changing the article to suit your preferences in this matter; you know better than that. Moreover, even if it were acceptable, Brust is particularly vocal about being of Hungarian descent - mentioning it is not only appropriate, but frankly required in a neutral biographical article. Please don't make blind changes like that, and please don't make any such changes with an intentionally opaque edit summary. Thanks. — Gavia immer (talk) 18:59, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I wasn't aware of the dispute. Could you direct me to the appropriate link? Also, that he is vocal about his ethnicity means what exactly. Is his notability due to his ethnicity? If this is the case, then that should be made clear in the intro. I will revert this back per MOSBIO and also note this on the article talk page. Thank you, --Tom (talk) 19:20, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

y is redpen allowed 2 stalk me but u say nada
U sounded rational. Perhaps you'll be an intermediary. Y is redpen allowed 2 stalk me & my edits. & when s/he raises an objection, I am blocked. S/h followed me to Elisabeth Hasselbeck, to Tim Hasselbeck, to Girlfriends, to Omarosa. Y is this ok? S/h repeatedly reverts when I add s/t to already saved versions of articles, then says the burden is on me for the whole article when I didnt write the whole article! I add a section or info that is sourced but Im responsible for the whole article. Pls look @ the pages & look & the histories & see what I mean. Thanks. 70.108.110.22 (talk) 02:38, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I will take a look when I have a chance, but to be honest, you have already edit warred against consensus, all be it a small one, but still. Again, try to make small edits that shouldn't be hard to defend and go from there. Use the talk page and ask others to get involved. As far a stalking, if an editor feels another editor is not complying with policies and guidelines, they may watch what edits they make and act accordingly as long as it isn't disruptive or against consensus. Anyways, Tom (talk) 03:39, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * ip, do you have a reliable source that shows Omarosa was divorced? Please post it here, TIA Tom (talk) 03:42, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

1)Yes please do look. My edits were small. When I added names & DOBs it was sourced. 2)That is bullshit! S/h he has no interest in making the articles better, s/he just reverts my edits. Again, y dont u all say anything 2 redpen? So for the rest of my time on wiki redpen may follow me that is fine? I need jim wales # then. If redpen cared about the articles being better, what content is redpen adding to make it better? 3)I just added 7 sources for her divorce. It took 2 sec. If redpen wasnt lazy the sources coulda been easily found. Omarosa isnt even called Stallworh anymore so her page needs 2 be moved to just Omarosa Manigault. 4)Seriously please tell redpen to stop following me. Wouldnt this bother you? 70.108.79.147 (talk) 15:02, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * ip, I don't know what the deal is, and I probably don't want to, sorry, but I am not even an admin, and I don't want to be one exactly for this reason. Have you considered registering an account? I am a huge believer in equal rights for ips, but at this point, you would get more traction with an account, for better or worse. Anyways, use the talk page, get others, besides myself involved and stay cool. I actually need to leave the project for awhile for personally reasons and will do so shortly. Anyways, --Tom (talk) 20:15, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

O ok. I hope all is well with you. Thanks for your help thus far. 70.108.79.147 (talk) 01:30, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Carson Daly's son
Tom redp followed me to Carson Daly & its the same DOB arguement. The birth & name was announced & publicised.70.108.79.147 (talk) 15:09, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * ip, it looks like redpen edited that article perviously, and if he is like me, he watchpages the articles he has edited, so that is why he noticed your edit. Anyways, the amount of detail bios contain and privacy issues have been an ongoing matter of debate here on this project. There are a number of different boards to escalate this to, but I would prefer using the individual talk page first. I personally am a deletionist/minimalist/ifindoubtleaveitout and would not edit war over inclusion, so you are probably talking to the wrong guy. I am not an admin and consider myself a speck of sand in this project. I try to pick my fights carefully, so when I do have them folks will take me seriously. This, imho, is not one of them. Again, use the different boards and enlist other uninvolved editors and get their opinions. If others disagree then maybe move on and work on different "angles". This project is HUGE and focusing on one "issue" or topic never tends to be a good thing, imho, and I know I should take my own advice, but... Anyways, --Tom (talk) 20:11, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps, but I feel redpen is stalking me. What is redpen's excuse for Omarosa and Girlfriends? 70.108.79.147 (talk) 01:31, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Since you do not have an account or a steady IP user page to respond to your question, I will answer here. I came across your questionable edits at a page and corrected them, and went to see if you made questionable edits elsewhere, and sure enough there were. Which, as was explained on one of your IP pages, is a legitimate use of user edit history. -- The Red Pen of Doom  02:33, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Snowmobile
Hi,

I remember the discussion about Ski Doo we had and I want to assure you that it is not me who removed it. I see that you have added your point of view about the local names of snowmobile about the heated exchange with this guy. I might have been a bit fast in removing the "sled" but it was put by IP without refrenced and it serves no purpose to add at infinitum details like that. This Srobak threatens me right off the bat and then deny it. Do you know where I can exposed my situation ? Pierre cb (talk) 04:31, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Pierre cb, no problem about the Ski Doo, I do believe that things were amlicable back then, but to be honest, I try not to let my past interactions sway my present opinion or actions either way. I don't know the full history here, but I did see that Srobak was edit warring on your talk page which is not proper or helpful. He then mention that I had been warned about my edits on talk pages, which wasn't fully accurate, becasue that had more to do with main space talk pages and not user talk pages, but that is neither here nor there.(just reverted your talk page again while I post this and "invited" the user to visit my page per his "threat") To answer your question, there are multiple places/boards/actions to bring up these type of disputes. First, always try to use the article talk page, which seems to be the case. 2nd, try to seek out others(uninvolved/neutral) opinions by request on their talk page or you can visit the request for comment board. If you feel that you need to have an admin step in over a user's actions, ie, threats, edit warring, salking, harrasment, distruption, the WP:ANI board is watched like a hawk. The only problem, is that you are usually told that the matter has not risen to the level of intervention and are told to try another dispute resolution method. Anyways, hope this helps and good luck. I usally hate having to go down these roads because they are a pain in the butt and usually don't do much unless the user is really out of control, and if that is the case, others usually beat me to the jump. Anyways, cheers! :) --Tom (talk) 12:53, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I posted a comment on the request for comment board to have someone cool Srobak down. I think I will let the matter die gradually unless he continues to threaten my user page. Pierre cb (talk) 13:20, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good idea and no problem. I will check that page out as well. I also posted to his talk page per the edit warring on your talk page. I hate getting into school yard spit balling, but what can I say, I am a youngest child :) --Tom (talk) 13:29, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Well Srobak has done it again to me and you. I've posted a notice at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. Pierre cb (talk) 15:00, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * That is a good, hopefully final, move. I would try to just ignore this user unless he keeps adding to your talk page or stalks you, ect. I know it is easier said than done, but other uninvolved admins usually come down on the right side...but not always :) Cheers, --Tom (talk) 18:27, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

redpen
U still willing 2 help? Since u left redpen got the Elisabeth Hasselbeck page locked. Im waiting bc I agreed 2 & havent corrected the Tim Hasselbeck page. redpen still is reverting my edits to Girlfriends Omarosa Carson Daly & now Tara Correa-McMullen. U still willing 2 help? 70.108.102.252 (talk) 18:08, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I am not that interested at this point either way. Sorry, but good luck. --Tom (talk) 18:14, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Ok. So I may edit Tim? I stopped @ your behest. 70.108.102.252 (talk) 18:34, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I would use the talk page to make suggestions and let others comment first, and then edit. I am just one small voice and like I said, I am probably stepping out at this point. Anyways, Tom (talk) 20:00, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Olbermann talk page
I don't have a problem with the statement about the New Yorker article, except I'd like to know that the article actually exists. Do you have a link or other info about date, issue number, page numbers, etc.? I Googled it and found nothing. I could easily state that there's a New Yorker article by Cronkite that praises Olbermann, but that doesn't mean it exists. Thanks. Ward3001 (talk) 23:25, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Great minds think alike :) I just left a note on talk. Believe me, I usually delete talk pages per "not a forum" but this didn't seem to rise to any level. Giving more thought, however, if there isn't an artilce, this should be removed per BLP to both KO and Cronkite. Cheers, --Tom (talk) 23:28, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Ward3001 (talk) 23:30, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem. The "issue" seems to be getting fleshed out pretty well now. If that NYer article is the one in question, it isn't even Cronkite. Since your rebuttal has been pretty well conveyed, I wouldn't remove the IPs comment, but if you still feel strongly about it, I will not revert you and will respect you decision. Cheers, Tom (talk) 02:37, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree. I'll leave it. Thanks. Ward3001 (talk) 03:29, 28 March 2009 (UTC)