User talk:Thundermaker

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Pending changes/Straw poll on interim usage
Hi. As you recently commented in the straw poll regarding the ongoing usage and trial of Pending changes, this is to notify you that there is an interim straw poll with regard to keeping the tool switched on or switching it off while improvements are worked on and due for release on November 9, 2010. This new poll is only in regard to this issue and sets no precedent for any future usage. Your input on this issue is greatly appreciated. Off2riorob (talk) 23:51, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Anwar al-Awlaki edit
Looking at my edit shows only the addition of a few words, not the massive change that actually occurred. Take a look at both of those. I did not use a script. Something else must be going on. As far as the article in FN5, I tried again and still get the Washington Post screen "We are unable to locate the page you requested. The page may have moved or may no longer be available". Are you getting a cached copy of the original article? I cleared my cache before checking again. --Bejnar (talk) 17:15, 23 September 2010 (UTC) I did not intentionally edit an old version, in fact I don't even think that I looked at an old version, but it does look as if it were the old version that my edit was applied to. --Bejnar (talk) 17:21, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The added text "article no longer available 23 September 2010" was inside an abcnews.go.com ref. The ref immediately before it was at washingtonpost.com, and it also still works for me, I doubt it's cached (although I can't be sure because I'm going through a company proxy right now).  It might be a problem with your computer.  Thundermaker (talk) 17:33, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Re:FN5 I just ran a couple of searches in the Washington Post archives (for articles over 60 days old) and received the following:
 * Search Results: Anwar al-Awlaki   Between: 07/14/2010 and 07/18/2010    No Articles Found    No articles were found for the search you submitted.


 * Search Results: radical cleric:   Between: 07/14/2010 and 07/18/2010

Results 1 to 3 of 3 Page: --Bejnar (talk) 17:37, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * 1)     Freedom of sketch, Part 2 - Kathleen Parker; The Washington Post; Jul 18, 2010; A.19;
 * 2)     Weather or not, Wichita has its charms - Stephen Amidon; The Washington Post; Jul 18, 2010; F.6;
 * 3)     Gay marriage passes last vote in Argentina; Church had fought bill Activists celebrate a first in Latin America - Juan Forero; The Washington Post; Jul 16, 2010; A.8;


 * FN 5 Sullivan, Eileen; Lee, Matthew (July 16, 2010). "US-born radical cleric added to terror blacklist". Washingtonpost.com. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/16/AR2010071603730.html. Retrieved July 17, 2010. Yes, my edit did go to the wrong Sullivan footnote.  The one that doesn't work, and that I can't find on the Washington Post site is this one (above). --Bejnar (talk) 17:41, 23 September 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, I can confirm that the above link doesn't work for me either. I'll try to flag it in the article.  Thundermaker (talk) 17:47, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * A bot beat me to it. Well, it's flagged now.  Thundermaker (talk) 17:49, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

On your reverts
Hey, the sections I removed were recently added and do not fit in the articles at all. Allegations that Dudayev participated in carpet bombing are of no relevance to these articles. These allegations were made by Dudayev's military opponent due to the Chechen conflict in the 90s. Dudayev was not an important figure in the Soviet War in Afghanistan, and he is not mentioned at all in books about the Soviet-Afghan War. Therefore his name is completely out of place in these articles. I guess we could create a section on carpet bombing in general during the Soviet-Afghan war. Machinarium (talk) 17:20, 23 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Your argument sounds reasonable, but it should be discussed on the articles' talk pages rather than user talk pages. Thundermaker (talk) 18:36, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Alright, but I doubt I'll get responses. The person whose added it seems inactive. Feel free to state your opinion. Machinarium (talk) 00:44, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

The WikiProject National Archives Newsletter
The first ever WikiProject National Archives newsletter has been published. Please read on to find out what we're up to and how to help out! There are many opportunities for getting more involved. Dominic·t 21:44, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

On your reverts
You did exactly the same reverts to my addition to the private prison article that ChuckC had done a few days earlier and which I undid, leaving an extensive note for ChuckC.

I gave him the reasons why the sourcing was valid and how to find exactly the sources for each of the descriptive words I'd used in my edit.

None of the content from PrivateCi.org Rap Sheets is generated by that organization. It is a word for word, verbatim transcription of the original news stories that contained each of the difficulties.

If you had looked at the sourcing, I'm assuming, instead of jumping to a conclusion, you would have seen that. If you looked at the talk posted today, you would have likely not made your edits.

It's impossible to read the sourcing and not come to the same conclusion. It's not a long-ago recapitulation of past problems, these are ongoing substantial human rights violations and public safety failures.

Here's yesterday's story, by the way, picked up by the webmaster today:

http://www.theage.com.au/national/asylum-youths-sew-lips-together-20110725-1hxf6.html Above text added by except for the final 'l' in the URL.


 * I didn't read ChuckC's talk page. Perhaps we should be discussing this on talk:Private prison, so all of the article's editors can participate.  The Age would be considered a WP:RS, I think.  Thundermaker (talk) 14:54, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

I left this feedback on the article's feedback page today.

Activist (talk · contribs) has recently added some material about private prisons in Australia and South Africa, which have been reverted by myself and another editor. The reason is that the source http://www.privateci.org/ does not meet Wikipedia's criteria for a WP:Reliable Source. From a message left on my talk page, it appears to be a collection of articles (excerpts?) from reliable sources, and if we can dig up some of those, it would make a great addition to the article. I have searched for news items about private prisons in Australia and come up empty. Can somebody help to locate the original relevant articles from [1] [2]? 15:03, 26 July 2011 (UTC) There's a plethora of information about the for-profit screwups in Australia and New Zealand. I can't imagine how you could not have stumbled over them. If you had gone to the site you're disparaging, you would have found dozens of stories about them, none needing more than a moment's searching to verify from original sources. Here's today's story about the industry's paisd off stooges in government ceding the oversight for civil liberties to the for-profit operators. There have also been at least a dozen stories about SERCO's malfeasance in Australia in the past week. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/5789114/New-laws-toughen-prison-security New laws toughen prison security ANDREA VANCE Last updated 05:00 15/10/2011 Will that do???Activist (talk) 21:49, 14 October 2011 (UTC)Activist (talk) 21:56, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

If you (and ChuckC) so precipitously revert updates to a page, without bothering to check the citations to establish whether or not it was verifible, and you don't bother to read my note to him explaining why it was unreasonable, why should I consider your advice?

This isn't a rhetorical question. Activist (talk) 10:06, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I assure you, I did look at your citations before deciding it wasn't a good enough source.


 * I just now checked user_talk:CliffC, and it contains nothing new about this issue. Private prison is a contentious article, and privateci.org would be seen as a biased source.


 * Again, the article's talk page at talk:Private prison is the place we should be discussing these things, so that all current editors of that page can participate and future editors can see the rationale behind decisions we make.


 * The reason I started a discussion on your talk page was because I thought you were a newbie who didn't understand Wikipedia's WP:Reliable source policy, and I wanted to point you in the right direction. The reason you should consider it is that it's Wikipedia policy.  I hope that answers your question.  Thundermaker (talk) 15:56, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Let me try this again. privateci.org reprints newspaper stories. It doesn't write then, rewrite or otherwise modify them. They're exactly as they originally appeared. There's no legitimate reason, given that circumstance, that it should be seen as a "biased source." The problem is that the industry is thoroughly corrupt, incompent and malfeasant. Simply repeating newspaper stories doesn't make them any more or less so.Activist (talk) 02:59, 2 September 2011 (UTC)


 * It looks like there has been some improvement to the privateci.org site since we talked previously -- the articles are now attributed. However, I compared  with, and they are different near the end.  Assuming good faith, I would guess that privateci saved an earlier version of the article.


 * Even if the content was exactly the same, I would use the smh.com.au link and not the privateci link because:


 * The Sydney Morning Herald is a respected news source.
 * There may be a copyright violation -- the SMH version is labelled "Copyright © 2011 Fairfax Media".
 * Privateci.org will still be seen as biased. Don't be blind just because you agree with their agenda.  If there was a story about great success of some private prison, they would not host it.


 * I hope you can use the improved privateci site to help find the materials at their original sources and improve Wikipedia that way. However, if your purpose is to promote the site itself, you would be better off using Facebook.  Thundermaker (talk) 17:39, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

August 2011
Please do not attack other editors, as you did at User talk:V7-sport. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. SudoGhost 18:22, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Civilian casualties in the War in Afghanistan
Hi Thundermaker,

I had previously removed the year headings under Civilian casualties in the War in Afghanistan (2001%E2%80%93present) from the table of contents in order to make that section less prominent to those alleging NPOV concerns. I noticed you put them back a month ago, and I think that may have triggered an NPOV tag and NPOV discussion again. I'm going to put back my change, but feel free to discuss if you'd like. Regards, Formats (talk) 06:34, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * My concern is with the extent of coverage, not the number of headings used (which I hadn't even noticed). Nick-D (talk) 06:45, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Concerning Ali Khamenei Article
- Peter Deer (talk) 11:50, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Coordinator sought for the US National Archives WikiProject
Greetings, WikiProject US National Archives member!

We are seeking a coordinator to help reboot the project and work on new initiatives! The role is modeled after other Wikiproject coordinators, like the WikiProject Military History coordinators. The coordinator will work with the Wikipedian in Residence to organize and increase participation in the WikiProject, with the goal that the WikiProject is an active space for collaboration maintained by and for the Wikipedia editors, rather than the National Archives.

Please see the full information at GLAM/NARA/Coordinator and contact me is you have any questions. Feel free to pass this note along to any interested parties. Thanks! Dominic·t 21:08, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Zachary Adam Chesser for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Zachary Adam Chesser is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Zachary Adam Chesser until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Beerest355 Talk 23:03, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Management and Training Corporation
Your concerns about Management and Training Corporation vandalizing the article regarding its operations were well taken. Activist (talk) 21:24, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

October 2014
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 * Good catch.  Thundermaker (talk) 06:46, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

November 2014
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Jerry Brown revert
Hi,

I understand that you were trying to be helpful, but the change I made corrected the bill number of the Consenting Adults Sex Act of 1975. It's AB 489, not AB 849. Reverting it to a transcription error isn't helpful, and since it was a very minor error/edit I didn't bother leaving a message when I made my initial edit. Feel free to look it up in leginfo, then please either make that change yourself or restore my edit.

107.184.248.228 (talk) 00:20, 12 December 2014 (UTC)


 * I see now you're right. In case you're unaware, there is currently a form of vandalism on Wikipedia where anonymous users make random numeric changes.  My initial searches for "AB 489" and "AB 849" pointed to the latter being a more notable bill and therefore more likely to be correct.  On closer examination I was clearly wrong.  I'll change it to link to Consenting Adult Sex Bill.  Thank you for the explanation.  Thundermaker (talk) 06:20, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
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Disambiguation link notification for October 1
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 * Thanks, that was a good catch. None of the people listed on the DAB were him, so I removed the wikilink.  Thundermaker (talk) 12:04, 1 October 2016 (UTC)