User talk:ThuranX/Sandbox

Suggestions
Given the prodigious length of this article and the need for streamlining, I would keep just the first graf of the section "Bruce Banner"; the second expands on the first, but the whole thing can go and a general-audience reader would still get the gist. For example, we don't really need a cite for Banner being one of the most brilliant minds on the planet. This is a comic book, and I think if we just say he's brilliant, that'll do. It's understood that any protagonists essential features are exemplary -- Spartacus was probably one of the most heroic people in the Roman Empire, but it's sufficient to just describe him as heroic. --Tenebrae 20:53, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Some of the rest needs some simple, "technical" edits. A lot of what you say can be streamlined into fewer words, and we need to eliminate passive voice ("the effects are seen") to active voice ("the soldiers see").


 * For instance, this five-line version
 * The Hulk comes to be when, during the experimental detonation of a Gamma Bomb, scientist Bruce Banner sees a teenager out on the testing field, and runs out to save him. Though he is able to push Rick Jones into a safety trench, banner himself is caught in the blast, absorbing massive amounts of Gamma Radiation. Though he shows no damage initially, the effects are seen when he transforms that night into a lumbering grey form, soon identified by a G.I. as a ‘Hulk’. Rick Jones spends a great deal of time in his next few years, and for decades of the comic, as the Hulk’s friend and sidekick.


 * can be edited to this four-line version
 * During the experimental detonation of a "gamma bomb", scientist Bruce Banner rushes to save a teenager who'd driven onto the testing field. Pushing the teen, Rick Jones, into a trench, Banner himself is caught in the blast, absorbing massive amounts of radiation. He awakens later in an infirmary, seeming relatively unscathed, but that night transforms into a lumbering gray form that through the wall and escapes. A soldier in the ensuing search party dubs the otherwise unidentified creature "a hulk".


 * The Rick Jones material is tangential here, as is the printing-process material, in what appears to be primarily a discussion about the Hulk's persona.
 * I'll give one more example of streamlining, with the next graf. For example: "his transformations were triggered by sundown" could be the shortened to "he initially transformed at sundown." Or "is shown divorcing his identity" can be just "divorces his identity", and "from that of Banner" can be "from Banner's".


 * I would streamline this graf
 * The original version of the Hulk was most often shown as simple and quick to anger. His transformations were triggered at first by sundown, returning to human form at dawn, then later, by emotional trigger. Although grey in his debut, difficulties for the printer led to a change in his color to green. In the origin tale, the Hulk is shown divorcing his identity from that of Bruce Banner, decrying Banner as "that puny weakling in the picture"[4]. From his earliest stories, the Hulk has been a character concerned with finding sanctuary and quiet[2], and often is shown as easily reacting emotionally to situations Grest and Weinberg suggest Hulk represents the "...dark, primordial side of [Banner's] psyche."[5]. Even in the earliest appearances, Hulk used the third person to refer to himself. The Hulk retains a modest intelligence, thinking and talking in full sentences, and Lee even gives the Hulk expository dialogue in issue six, allowing readers to learn just what capabilities the Hulk has, when the Hulk says, “But these muscles ain't just for show! All I gotta do is spring up and just keep goin'!" In Marvel: Five Fabulous Decades of the World's Greatest Comics, Les Daniels addresses the Hulk as an embodiment of cultural fears of radiation and nuclear science. He quotes Jack Kirby thus:


 * As long as we're experimenting with radioactivity there's no telling what may happen, or how much our advancements may cost us.


 * Daniels continues " The Hulk became Marvel's most distubing embodiment of the perils inherent in the atomic age."


 * this way (leaving out the Kirby quote both for space and since, at least for me, it really doesn't add anything to the Daniels quote):


 * This original version of the Hulk transforms at sundown, returning to human form at dawn. Shortly thereafter, extreme emotion triggers the change. From the start, the Hulk divorces his identity from Banner's, decrying Banner as "that puny weakling" in a photo he sees, and acting out as what Grest and Weinberg call the "...dark, primordial side of [Banner's] psyche". Though his goal when left alone is to seek sanctuary and quiet, he often reacts emotionally and is easily angered. The Hulk retains a modest intelligence, the level of which fluctuates, sometimes resembling that of a child who refers to himself in the third person, and sometimes that of a streetwise adult, speaking in full sentences. Over all, he represents what comics historian Less Daniels calls "Marvel's most distubing embodiment of the perils inherent in the atomic age".

--Tenebrae 21:00, 24 October 2007 (UTC) and additional material Tenebrae 21:17, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I concur on the origin para, and on the second phrases. As to the analysis para, I actually worked quite a bit on that off wiki. I've got this whole thing in Word, so I can get all my spelling stuff and so on checked, and use it at libraries and such for references. Since Daniels' conclusion is thoroughly dependent on Kirby's assessment, it needs to be in, esp. since daniels puts that label in terms of Marvel's characters, thus needing the voice and citation of a marvel employee to substantiate it. This is an area I feel strongly about, because currently there's a dearth of critical review of the charater in there. I'll review for verbosity and speechifying, which I admit i do at times, and will look for ways to shorten it, but on the point of citations being fuller and robust, instead of stripped down to the percieved essentials, I've always been of a mind to fully cite, with whatever context is needed. I learned it doing other sorts of research, both hobby stuff and academic, and I've always found that having a strong neutral reliable cite with context, as needed, leaves less grounds for argument from 'other sides'. Not that I'm expecting big arguments about Kirby's ability to speka on the character, or so on. ThuranX 21:45, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * No disagreement here. You'll find most of my edits were about ways to shorten lengthy phrases, and mostly content-neutral.


 * I don't envy all the work of your volunteer task! --Tenebrae 22:11, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

picky
Given all the work you've done, it will seem petty for me to pick this one little thing to point out, but it's the one thing that leaps out at me: "During this, the four personalities confront yet another submerged Hulk, a sadistic Hulk intent on attacking the world for revenge. . He also" That last "he" would read more clearly as "Jenkins" because the previous sentence does not mention Jenkins. Doczilla 03:11, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm adding comments about the Hulk revision at the bottom of the Sandbox page. I wasn't sure about editing someone else's sandbox, but I didn't think I should clutter your talk page with all of my notes. Doczilla 20:01, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Quibbles...
... And sorry for the delay.

Debut and first series

"In issue #2 and after..." seems awkward... "From issue #2 on..." or "Beginning with issue #2..." perhaps?

And the following sentences are a little stilted. Maybe...

"This color was used in retellings of the origin, even to the point of reprints of the original story being re-colored, for the next two decades. The Incredible Hulk vol. 2, #302 (Dec. 1984), reintroduced the grey Hulk in flashbacks set close to the origin story. This was reaffirmed in vol. 2, #318 (April 1986), which showed the Hulk was grey at the time of his creation. Since then, reprints of the first issue have displayed the original grey coloring."

1970s

The She-Hulk bit is a little out of place as worded... maybe...

"Writers also introduced Banner’s cousin Jennifer Walters, the self-titles spin-off series Savage She-Hulk. A major plot component of the early She-Hulk stories was Banner's guilt over causing her change,"

And a typo in the Ellison sentence... Hulk, not hulk.

And I've gotta run... I'll try to skim the rest later today. - J Greb 11:57, 6 November 2007 (UTC)