User talk:Thuringowacityrep/Archive 3

AfD nomination of Les Tyrell
An article that you have been involved in editing, Les Tyrell, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Articles for deletion/. Thank you. Twenty Years 16:50, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I hope you don't mind a suggestion from me - and I vote to keep (as others have) is to stay calm Thuringowacityrep - there is nothing wrong with supporting your city on WP - but do not protest to loudly or lose your calm with legitimate delete !votes. Even better take the time to polish the article up a bit more so that you get even more keep votes.-- VS talk 11:15, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Townsville-Burdekin School District
A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Townsville-Burdekin School District, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. If you agree with the deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please add  to the top of Townsville-Burdekin School District. Twenty Years 00:45, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Suburbs of Thuringowa City
A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Suburbs of Thuringowa City, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. If you agree with the deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please add  to the top of Suburbs of Thuringowa City. Twenty Years 01:52, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Thuringowa
It appears you have not taken well to my large-scale cleanup of the City of Thuringowa article. Now basically, this is what i think: Apologies for any inconvenience. Cheers. Twenty Years 15:28, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * the info you reverted in the Media section is covered in the "Media in the City of Thuringowa" article (either have the information in one place, or not at all)).
 * Listing the attractions of the beaches is pure boosterism, i have not seen any LGA article do this. Why not just name the beaches, hell: i was thinking of removing the entire section.
 * I know you are pissed off about it, and for that im sorry. This article/set of articles is very-well known within the WP:AUS community. This article reeeeks of POV-pushing (im not accusing you) and boosterism, i must admit when i first read the article, i thought it was some like major state/territory.
 * Why not, to save the questions/peoples comments just change your username, its not like its going to cause you that much of an issue.
 * I think my edits have been more than constructive. If you have a problem with the referencing, then fix it. If you have any further concerns, please contact me, thanks. Twenty Years 15:53, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, what you are failing to see is that ive trimmed the article down to about half the size, removing all of the cruft - that is information not relevant to the area, POV pushing, and pure boosterism. What must be remembered is that this article is on a LGA, not a city, ive found three good examples of similar articles: City of Joondalup, Rural City of Marong, and City of Wyndham. The article was rated as B-Class and that is fine, because it still is B-Class. Just as a side-note, you may wish to tone down your comments relating to the article, you seem to be bringing on most of the trouble yourself. Thanks. Twenty Years 15:01, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Must pass on my thanks for the LOLarious commentary on the situation. Twenty Years 18:08, 12 January 2008 (UTC)


 * your comment just goes to show what sort of person you are and why you have done what you did....tool Thuringowacityrep (talk) 09:20, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Remember: "comment on the content, not the contributor," mate. Twenty Years 11:54, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Tyrell
No worries. He's been in for so long, and the newspaper records are good enough that a perfectly decent little article could be written around him by someone with the energy and Factiva access, and I get a bit frustrated when people race off to delete stuff before even checking whether that sort of coverage exists or not.

However, I do think you're bringing some of this on yourself with your aggressive attitude to any content about Thuringowa. The City of Thuringowa article is filled with content that has absolutely nothing to do with the actual Local Government Area - it's filled with general cruft about the region itself. You're not the first to do this (I remember taking another user up on this with Municipality of Strathfield in Sydney some years ago), but it is frustrating that you keep edit warring to keep that material in when it's degrading what could be a really good article. (I've noticed that you keep citing a B rating that some random user gave the article; however, a B rating is basically "mediocre" on Wikipedia.) This sort of confrontational attitude is unnecessary, and frankly, pissing people off, so I'm not exactly surprised that there's some people giving you short shrift on the Tyrell AfD. Rebecca (talk) 08:20, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

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Thuringowa
Im not trying to be a smart-alec, im just simply explaining my edit in the case of "how can sport be a subsection of economy". The others, pretty fair comment, but the same could be said for your edits too. Last line is pretty fair: both parties back off a bit. I think we need to use the talk page more than we have. Twenty Years 16:10, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Media in the City of Thuringowa
An article that you have been involved in editing, Media in the City of Thuringowa, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Articles for deletion/. Thank you. &mdash;Moondyne 14:25, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

'' [Moved from debate page as they were off-topic there. Sorry, my fault. &mdash;Moondyne 07:51, 20 January 2008 (UTC)]
 * You seem to be suggesting some sort of conspiracy. I have no idea what your talking about wrt to other Thuringowa pages being deleted.  I don't know of these.  And as for deleting the page yourself, thats not how it works.  You don't "own" the page: once your edit is saved the community owns it.  It stays, goes or is modified according to the policies, guidelines and consensus made by the community, not you. &mdash;Moondyne 00:28, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Here we go again.. I NEVER said i own the page i was just pointing out that after March i was going to remove the page anyway....how did that say i own it???? i was going to do an edit just like you do, and as for the other pages, well the Thuringowa city page has had almost all of the info i added over the last few years removed by 1 editor but yet i was told that i had done a great job and inproved the page a lot by some other editors (bringing it from a start rating up to a B), the Les Tyrell page was deleted even when it had 7 keeps and only 3 deletes, but thats not an issue any more, I have a talk page why not use it and ask my thought on moving the page over to the townsville media page and if i don't like the idea THEN put it up for deletion, i guess that you don't do things that way,sorry it's just im used to editors using my talk page to try and work out the issue that person may have with a page i start or a edit i do. If i know you have a problem with it i can fix it or put a tag at the top of the page so other editors can help fix the page up (isn't that how it works here, the wiki community helps each other out with edits?)Thuringowacityrep (talk) 07:23, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The problem is not just with a few parts of the page's content, rather the whole page. It's not-notable according to Wikipedia standards and adding a few tags doesn't fix that.  I apologise for accusing you of thinking you owned the page, that was an impression I got from some of your statements above.  If you re-read your comments as a 3rd person you'd see what I'm talking about. &mdash;Moondyne 07:47, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Les Tyrell
Hi TCR. As I mentioned in the edit summary, content of the type I removed from the article is the reason people, including me, think you have a conflict of interest. From the beginning, the article discusses Tyrell in a familiar tone; no matter how friendly the two of you are, using his first name is not on in a Wikipedia article. The line "Les and his council have achieved a lot in his time as Mayor" reads like an endorsement and is not anywhere near a neutral point of view. The "short list" is not short for a start and most of the awards were not given to Tyrell himself but the City of Thuringowa as a whole. It reads like the self congratulatory material my local MP drops in my mailbox every quarter and it beggars belief that someone who has been here as long as you cannot see this reads like a election candidate's flyer. Your history of Thuringowa POV pushing (and unapologetic sock-puppetry) gives me little confidence that you have any intention of writing from a neutral point of view and that collaboration on your talk page would be effective, hence the immediate removal of the content. I am still underwhelmed by the notability of the article, most of the references supplied are not independent of the subject and therefore are not reliable sources. I am removing the content again. Do not add it back while it is in its currently unacceptable form. -- Mattinbgn\talk 13:02, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

reply
Hi TCR, sorry I only just got your message now and sorry but I'm way too busy in real life at the moment to write any articles (or even contribute to any real extent), I haven't seen the discussion but if the article was actually deleted than I would not be able to reverse that decision, it would need to be un-deleted by consensus, if I created the page again it would just be deleted. Cheers, Wiki Townsvillian 10:56, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Townsville, Queensland
No worries, we will slowly get through it, there's a lot of updating to do. I suggest we just keep working at it over the next week or two and keep an eye on which each of us is doing. Congrats on Les getting in by the way, it will be an interesting four years to say the lease :) Cheers, Wiki Townsvillian 05:07, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * from my perspective it isn't a matter of you doing anything wrong, I just think this is going to be a complex task updating all these pages which is going to require all of us to work together collaboratively. Cheers,  Wiki Townsvillian 05:25, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm really not sure when Tyrell officially takes office, presumably not until the result is official from the electoral commission (we all know the result however not all the booths have been counted yet so the electoral comission won't make a declaration until all votes are counted. If they don't declare the winner until after all the Councillors are determined than we may be waiting weeks... in the mean time I presume that Mooney is in charge during this caretaker period as the chair of transition committee. Cheers,  Wiki Townsvillian 05:37, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * At the moment I think he would be the Mayor-elect... Wiki Townsvillian 05:37, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd imagine they'd swear in the mayor as soon as the mayoral election is certain, but might wait to swear in the rest of the councillors, as they're two separate elections. At the moment he'd be Mayor-elect, but it would be safe to put him in the Mayor box. Orderinchaos 06:13, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * s227(4) of the Local Government Act 1993 (Qld) states that:


 * ''A councillor’s term of office starts—
 * (a) if the councillor is elected—the day after the day of the conclusion of the councillor’s election


 * Hence, Les Tyrell is the Mayor of the City of Townsville from today. There is no swearing in as such needed. -- Mattinbgn\talk 06:29, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * if you look at the page, ALL the booths have been counted Thuringowacityrep (talk) 06:47, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Booths, yes, but postals and specials still to go. That's pretty normal. However, they often work on what is possible - i.e. if every postal vote went against Les (which would never happen anyway), he'd still have a majority of votes. Therefore they can swear him in. If such is far less certain they can't do so. (This is why at the last federal election most of the results were declared basically as soon as someone could get out to declare them, while others had to wait weeks). Orderinchaos 11:03, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

City of Thuringowa
No one's suggesting that this page should be deleted - certainly not me in any case. Most of the content there is good - the history section is excellent, and covers the 128 years of history quite well (although it could be expanded).

It's the health, transport, sports and education content which just has nothing essentially to do with the local council. They may have had some tangential role in supporting it, but all of this is the responsibility of the state government, and any content trying to tie links between the local council and them would be invariably crap and verging on original research. Any case for them being included really did die with the municipality.

There's still lots that could be said about the City of Thuringowa that is relevant, though. Why don't you write some more about its long history? I'm sure this could be expanded quite a bit. It says very little about the geography - you could write more about the suburbs and core landmarks that it covered. What about the structure - did it have wards (and if so, where did each ward cover?) or did the councillors represent the whole electorate?) It only links to articles on two former mayors - perhaps articles could be written on some of the earlier mayors. What about the politics? Was it a conservative or a left-wing shire? What sort of people did it usually elect?

You seem really interested in Thuringowa, and these are the sorts of questions which need to be answered in a really good article - one which might one day be eligible for featured article status. It'd be great to have a former LGA featured, because it'd set a good template for others to follow later. Please stop fighting to add this irrelevant stuff, though - it'll ensure it never gets featured article status, and there's so much more relevant stuff you could be adding. Rebecca (talk) 10:39, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Where have people been removing content about the history? That's a bit worrying. Rebecca (talk) 10:57, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * As an aside I don't think anyone's "happy" to see the city go. These things happen, it's just the way it goes, and events on the ground to some extent shape what goes on here. However I have always been of the belief, and I know that in general my Australian geography compatriots agree, that there are gaps in coverage on Wikipedia and whatever we can do to fill them and, hopefully, get GAs and FAs and stuff out of them is worth doing. Orderinchaos 11:06, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No reason we can't still have a good article on it. My work's going to be kind of focussed on everywhere else - I have 95 former QLD shires/cities which are in most cases barely qualifying as stubs so they need somewhat urgent attention. Orderinchaos 11:16, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

I think there's no need to add "former" in all of the places you've added it - in quite a few places it's makes for awkward wording, and in others its just unnecessary (I think Dan Gleeson was fine as it was, for one example). One thing you might want to think about (and I have to say now that I have no idea if it'd survive a deletion attempt) is creating a seperate article at Thuringowa for the district. There is a little bit of precedent for that sort of thing (I'm thinking of places like Manuka, which doesn't exist as an official locality, but is widely known as such, and places where we have an article on districts within cities (such as Belconnen). But adding "former" to every single mention of Thuringowa on Wikipedia is just making for some really tortured prose. Rebecca (talk) 10:47, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi TCR, in reply to your suggestion on my talk page, I agree that Thuringowa should be at least mentioned for a little while until the super city is better established, however wherever it is mentioned in infoboxes it should be changed completely to City of Townsville, also throughout the article they should be referred to as being in Townsville, other than once in the lead (for now) and in a section which is dedicated to the history of the suburb.


 * Regarding Rebecca's comment above, this is exactly the issue which I flagged needed to be discussed in detail first. Lets wait until the dust settles and see if Thuringowa is referred to as a region in the future.  I don't want to offend you but I very much doubt it will be.  I say this because rural areas which were part of the City of Townsville but which used to be within Thuringowa are not referred to as Thuringowa.  From being a Townsville local my impression is that Thuringowa will not be adopted as the name for the region which was within the boundaries of Thuringowa, I know you would disagree with this, but lets let the dust settle and see what happens and if reliable sources do start to generally call the region "Thuringowa" then we can create another article with that name.  Cheers,  Wiki Townsvillian 11:42, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

New Name...
You need a new name. Duggy 1138 (talk) 12:07, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I am happy. your complete POV pushing and blatant self promotion and elevation or Thuringowa to a higher place than what it actually is (like reading the article and associated articles makes it seem more important than Brisbane) has created a lot of unnecessary work for other editors. Let's hope you can concentrate your energies to constructive additions to Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.56.70.236 (talk) 13:29, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi TCR, I realise the above comments aren't very nice, however this is a completely inappropriate way for you to post a reply, especially considering you are an experienced editor and that was the anon's first post, in contrast you made this post four minutes before which was much more tempered and civil.  There are many warnings you can post on anons and users talk pages which are completely appropriate and don't resort to the kind of uncivil language you have used. I won't post one of these warnings on your page because you know very well about WP:CIVIL and don't need to be warned, however if you continue with outbursts such as that I will start posting high level warnings on your page and you will be eventually blocked for such behaviour. Cheers,  Wiki Townsvillian 11:51, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Electoral district of Thuringowa
Hi TCR, the local government reform has nothing to do with State electoral districts, all State electoral districts are not affected and have the same names and boarders as they had before. Cheers, Wiki Townsvillian 12:00, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * no worries, I think it is a very obvious self-evident fact, your references will probably help, good work. Cheers,  Wiki Townsvillian 12:06, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi again, RE Electoral district of Mundingburra; I think it should be left as it was as it is a historical section and he was mayor at the time of his running in the by-election, your thoughts? Cheers,  Wiki Townsvillian 12:11, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Suburbs of Thuringowa City
An editor has nominated Suburbs of Thuringowa City, an article on which you have worked or that you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ).

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what on earth are you on about?
TCR, you've covered my watchlist with complaints that Category:Townsville/Thuringowa, Queensland is being moved or deleted without discussion... I've just gone to the cat and it is still there so what are you talking about??? I think it is obvious that the cat Townsville/Thuringowa, Queensland will be moved to the new cat of Townsville, Queensland but no one's forcing you to go round changing it all and I don't see any discussion where it is being deleted... so again, what are you talking about and why are you whining all across my watchlist instead of actually discussing it... Cheers, Wiki Townsvillian 11:24, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Please get off your high horse! You have made several mistakes in your eagerness to replace Mooney with Tyrell, if you find a typing mistake someone has made like you did with my edit to the Tony Mooney page, then fix it and be polite about it.  We need all the help we can get with this task because it is so big, we will not be able to do it just you and I.  So smarten up and be polite when talking to other editors and when leaving edit summaries otherwise you will discourage people from updating and improving articles which are related to our region and if that happens these articles will be at a disadvantage.  Cheers,  Wiki Townsvillian 11:48, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Les Tyrell
I have reverted your reinstatement of the "awards" for the reasons explained on the article talk page. Please discuss there. &mdash;Moondyne click! 00:11, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Riverway
That source states that it is linked to Thuringowa Central District, but it doesn't explain how it is connected, having being to Riverway many times I can vouch that there is no direct link to Thuringowa Central, you have to cross roads to get anywhere from Riverway. There would need to be a walk way crossing Ross River Road or Upper Ross River Road to connect it to anything, however what "Thuringowa CBD" is is not defined either. Cheers, Wiki Townsvillian 12:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Urban centre pops
Hi Thuringowacityrep, I was going to wait for the release of the 2016.0 document (which should hopefully be at the end of March like it was back in 2003), as it has all the urban centres ranked and we won't have to go through each city's page individually to get the figures. If you want to do the work for all the cities, though, go ahead. - Aucitypops (talk) 04:25, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Palm Island new Mayor
Hi TCR, thanks for helping with the Palm Island article, I had forgotten to update it, I can see what you are trying to do but the technicalities of the table have made it difficult (it's a complex table), I think I'll just start a new table based on what you have done so that we don't get caught up in the table of the previous election results, in fact it might be good for us to leave the previous results and over time it will build into a bit of a historical record of the voting patters, on Palm it always seems to be the same players so it is of interest to see how the voting patters change over time :) Cheers, Wiki Townsvillian 10:40, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Thuringowa History
G'day TCR. I share your interest in Thuringowa's history, and I thought you might like access to some further information which could be useful in adding to some Wikipedia articles. I haven't got time to edit the Wikipedia articles myself, but you're welcome to use the published information. In the Thuringowa Library (which I notice still seems to be called that) you'll find a slim volume I wrote called "A Short History of Thuringowa" (2000), which may be helpful. It devotes some space to tracing the history of the relationship between the Thuringowa and Townsville LGA's, mentions the origin of the name, etc. They should also have a copy of a report called "Heritage Survey of Thuringowa Riverway Area" (2003), which includes a more detailed historical study of the river from the Black Weir up to the Ross River Dam, focusing on Pioneer Park. If it's not in the library collection, ask the Historical Officer for it. All the best Peter Bell (talk) 08:33, 15 May 2008 (UTC)