User talk:Tiamut/Archive 11

shukran ya Tiamut
Thank you very much for the barnstar, though I feel a little silly getting that as it really wasn't much. And trust me, the pleasure has been all mine working with editors like you. Nableezy (talk) 19:45, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for, that. I like a few others too: this, this, even though it just touches on it, and this one is pretty good too. I actually liked my userpage more before I was asked to change it, but ah well, this will make do. Nableezy (talk) 18:16, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

History of Gaza lead
Marhaba Tiamut! I recently nominated History of Gaza for Good article status, perhaps prematurely. I see that you have been quite busy with the ancient Arabia subject area, particularly the great job you did with the Qedarites article. If you do have any free time, could you please take a look at the article, specifically the lead? I'm trying to make Gaza a Good topic with the Great Mosque of Gaza already being a GA, and Gaza itself soon to be one. --Al Ameer son (talk) 03:06, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It could be done anytime in the next few days and maybe even after because a review has not started yet. Good luck with the translation! --Al Ameer son (talk) 03:21, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

The 25 DYK Medal
You're most welcome. Keep up the good work!--Chanaka L (talk) 11:57, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Geographic coordinates
Hi Tiamut! You might know the coordinates for the following locations:


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Bethphage
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_Church,_Nazareth
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_Multiplication
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_Primacy_of_St._Peter
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Saint_George,_Lod
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Andrew's_Church,_Jerusalem
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._George's_Cathedral,_Jerusalem
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_Seven_Apostles
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Sergius_Church,_Jerusalem

Please have a look! If you know where these places are, but don't know or have time to place the coordinate templates, please let me know their locations. Thanks, —Ynhockey (Talk) 16:17, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Re comments at Talk:Revolving door policy (alleged Palestinian Authority policy)
Hey Tiamut, it's been nice discussing the article name with you. Can you please do me a favor? You modified your comment after I responded to it. The problem is that it makes my response look stupid. Can you please indicate that the part that you added came after I responded to them so that a reader will not think I responded nonsensically. Thanks, -- brew crewer  (yada, yada) 00:48, 29 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Update: It looks like you signed off for the day/night. I have modified my initial response to accord with your modified response so I guess there's no point in re-modifying your response. But please don't do that again. It's far less complicated if you just respond to my comment instead of modifying your original comment. Best, -- brew crewer  (yada, yada) 02:31, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Israeli settlement
There is some information there that you may find useful harlan (talk) 11:59, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Re Hounding
Hi Tiamut,

I just noticed that has stalked you to the quite impressive Lydda Death March and is giving you a hard time there.

I just wanted to point out that NoCal100 has been warned of the consequences of WP:HOUND here. To quote there:
 * Yes - see my point to NoCal100 above. I think this conversation is enough to establish to everyone here that if any further edit warring and/or disruption occurs which can be linked to following contrib histories, then we can safely assume that such behaviour will be blockable. If other admins believe that the above is blockable now then so be it, but personally I am happy to draw a line here and say that any further issues of the same sort will be sanctionable. Black Kite 15:13, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Cheers and keep up the wonderful work!  pedrito  -  talk  - 30.04.2009 07:31


 * Hi Tiamut,
 * I wouldn't be worried about 's accusations or threats -- he's the one who has been warned multiple times and you haven't done anything wrong. If you want to avoid the big pile-on which usually results from going to WP:AE, you could just leave a message. I'm sure he'll take care of it.
 * Although there are usually admin eyes on all the IP articles, few want to risk the ensuing drama and aggravation of actually having to enforce policy there. is, in my opinion, only good for warnings but not for action (she was, for a long time, Jaak's mentor, to little effect). Usually, though, reminding an admin explicitly of his/her last warning will usually get things done.
 * Cheers and good luck!  pedrito  -  talk  - 30.04.2009 07:47
 * pretty brazen, i'd say, as he was noticed doing the same thing to another user a couple days ago. untwirl (talk) 16:52, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, someone has got to report him for wikihounding to BlackKite. He's wasted hours of my time at Lydda Death March with WP:IDONTLIKEIT nonsense that could have been better spent actually improving articles and this following people around shit is just plain harassment. Who's gonna do it?
 * He can still get a separate sanction from Arbcomm for edit-warring, which he has also indulged in proficiently in the last two days as I noted there, despite receiving direct warnings under the WP:ARBPIA for this. What does it take to get the restrictions from ARBPIA imposed against a 'pro-Israeli' editor around. Ashley kennedy3 gets taken down for practically nothing, G-Dett pops off a few quips here and there so cogent and stinging in their accuracy she gets slapped with WP:CIVIL blocks. Nishidani is blocked for his eloquence. What the hell is going on here?  T i a m u t talk 17:06, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Nothing will be done. He's an understudy, and gotten away with this because most of us are too busy doing things or reading, to run up diffs, and there's going to be enough administrative on-topic oversight to catch him and his kind. If you ever get a chance to buy it, read Hew Strachan's The First World War. It tells you everything about tactics of attrition being used. The antidote is perhaps the temper you find among the troops in trenches in Frederic Manning's, Her Privates We. Strictly bedside reading, along with the Imitatio Christi, to console oneself after a long day's headache with being bullied.Nishidani (talk) 17:40, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I think a collective walk-out, to leave the I/P area, and just watch it and take notes ad the other side edits for several months, is one possible solution, if none is forthcoming from Arbcom. That would mean all those who just sit round to control other people's editing, kibitzing and entertaining themselves, tracking people, gaming things, seeking conflict, would be obliged to actually write articles, since the opposition had disappeared. Worth bearing in mind. It would tell one pretty quickly who is serious, and who just enjoys confrontation under false pretenses of wanting to edit an encyclopedia. 'Nite.Nishidani (talk) 19:09, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Thread on AN/I about this started here Nableezy (talk) 19:21, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * And as usual, nothing was done. Thanks for trying Nableezy. Sorry you got smeared in the process. People do not seem to be able to differentiate between good faith editing and nitpicking and harassment based on an WP:IDONTLIKEIT outlook. Too bad really. Oh well, happy editing. ;}  T i a m u t talk 16:09, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks
I thank you for your prompt and fair defence of my edits. Just in relation to your genuine criticisms -- I was honestly not aware that 'wiki waring' was considered to be so unless it broke the 3 revert rule. I would be happy to try and avoid edit waring of this kind in future if i knew of some relevant 'higher authority' i could take the dispute to however. The last few times I have had an admin intervene, they have all agreed with my opinion of explaining all of the relevent positions -- What next? Do you think you may be able to inform me of my best options here? Lastly, I do not even recognise the name Chesdovi, and as i explained to Ynhockey, it was not the user i was implying to have been a sock puppet. Rather, it was a random IP and i in no way intended to imply that such use was intentional. Thanks for your help! Cheers. Colourinthemeaning (talk) 15:05, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

I've address all the points raised
On the talk page. If you feel I have not done so to your satisfaction, please join the discussion rather than drive-by tagging, as you did here.  T i a m u t talk 18:22, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

The tag clearly says it is not to be removed until the dispute is resolved. You can not unilaterally declare it "resolved" - there are two editors who disagreed with you who need to state it is resolved. I will be making a few edits in the next few minutes to hopefully address some of the issues those editors raised. Canadian Monkey (talk)`


 * I didn't declare it unilaterally resolved. I answered the concerns raised, after there was no further response, I removed the tag. It was replaced again. I answered all the concerns made again in detail. No one responded. Nableezy came by and removed the tag noting that the arguments amounted to WP:IDONTLIKEIT. If you have something substantive to add, I'd be happy to hear it. It would be a nice change from your reverting in of weasal words without discussion earlier on in the article's development.  T i a m u t talk 18:47, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * If you want to work collaboratively on improving the article, and maybe seeing it to a DYK, you need to cease your personal attacks and allegations, as you have done here. Canadian Monkey (talk) 18:52, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * That's not a personal attack. You did revert weasal words like "speculates" and "alleges" into the article twice. And you did it without discussion. Accurately describing what you do is not a personal attacks. I would note too, in your last edit you use "claims" instead of "writes". Please don't do that. Let the reader decide for themselves.  T i a m u t talk 18:57, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Re: Colourinthemeaning
Hi Tiamut! Frankly, I find your comments on Colourinthemeaning's talk page rather offensive. You should not tell other editors, new or old, to ignore something that another editor has said, regardless of sysop status.

Secondly, your accusations are completely baseless: I was not 'throwing around (my) admin authority' or implying anything. All four separate points are made are sound, and are facts. He edit-warred, personally attacked Chesdovi, did not inform a WikiProject or anyone else about the restarting of an old discussion, and he is making controversial edits before previous discussion. If you do not agree with any of these four basic statements, give a reason. If you agree, stop making accusations and telling an editor to ignore another editor.

Thirdly, and please accept my apologies if this isn't so, it appears that you are encouraging Colourinthemeaning to game the system by saying I was blocked 4 times for that myself years ago, so be careful, implying that the only reason he shouldn't edit-war is because he can get blocked for it.

Finally, Colourinthemeaning is not a new editor. He didn't edit much, but this does not make him new, and I have no reason to believe that he has no knowledge of policy. And certainly, someone who has no such knowledge shouldn't be starting their Wikipedia experience by causing controversy. This is what MeteorMaker did, and is now up for sanction, and I would strongly discourage any other editor from acting in this way, both as a very senior Wikipedian and as an administrator. This is not done to 'intimidate' anyone, and I would discourage any editor in any field from such behavior should I encounter it. In fact, I made such a warning to MeteorMaker almost a year ago, which he chose to ignore.

Also, since Colourinthemeaning is indeed likely to listen to you more than to me, perhaps you should tell him about the arbitration case which is extremely relevant to this dispute (both are about I–P termonology), and perhaps he would like to hold off the changes he's making until the case is over. The reason is that right now is a very bad time because the 'parties' involved in the case are not likely to wish to involve themselves in this dispute, in order not to cause harm to themselves, which could make for a much more biased discussion without about half of the regular I–P editors. —Ynhockey (Talk) 21:21, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

عينيأ
No problem Tiamut, but it seems to go nowhere. I think Avi is right in a lot of what he wrote, but disagree with the conclusion. I will be out for a while (سفر إلى بلدي), so best wishes for now, Nableezy (talk) 04:14, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Copyright problem: SAMSI (Institute)
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If you would like to begin working on a new version of the article you may do so at [ this temporary page]. Leave a note at Talk:SAMSI (Institute) saying you have done so and an administrator will move the new article into place once the issue is resolved. Thank you, and please feel welcome to continue contributing to Wikipedia. Happy editing! Stifle (talk) 09:37, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks, but I did not author this material. Another editor did and placed it at Samsi. I copied it and moved it to its page and notified the editor of the copyright issue. Perhaps using bots to give these notices is not the greatest idea.  T i a m u t talk 11:23, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Lydda massacre
Hi, I did what I could to neutralise the article. I don't think "Lydda death march" is neutral. But 1948 Lydda massacre and expulsion is quite clear. Note that the article lacks information about the massacre and its circumstances. They can be found in Morris, 'The Birth' (among others). I will not fight against a coalition of editors in such a fierce wp:battle. So, good luck. Ceedjee (talk) 11:53, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Lydda Death March
Hi Ceedjee. I appreciate your additions to the page there. I was wondering though if you would mind if I move the article back to its original title for now, since the new title you are proposing is an expansion of scope, I was originally not intending for this article. Its going to appear as a DYK tonight or tomorrow, and I'd like it to be clean and compact for that. Afterward, I don't mind discussing expanding it to include the massacre that preceded the march, etc. But let's please gain consensus for title changes and article scope changes before doing them. Thanks again for all your important additions and the scholarship.  T i a m u t talk 11:55, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Please, feel free !
 * Nevertheless, be sure the "other side" will never agree with a title such as "lydda death march".
 * I thought you wanted to expand the topic because you added the article "lydda death march" in the list of the massacres of the article dedicated to the "massacres during the 1948 palestine war".
 * If you want to keep the article "lydda death march", then, I think you should clearly modify the lead in stating : "Lydda death march" refers to the episode that follows the massacre and expulsion of palesitnians that followed operation Dani or something like that...
 * even better, make a new one focusing on that topic... Ceedjee (talk) 12:09, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey, weren´t you going to nominate Salbit for DYK?? One thing is sure: starting any of the articles User:Huldra/Sources can, (and must!) wait until a quiet day.. (whenever that will be!) Take care, you brave one, Huldra (talk) 23:22, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thought you had forgotten it! Hurry up! Huldra (talk) 00:01, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh my dear, just back, and it can take the rest of the night just to read the talk page on the ""Allegations of an Exodus from Lydda" (as Ian P. put it, LOL!) Anyway; something has come up; and I would very much like you to email me. Take care, Cheers, Huldra (talk) 20:48, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Artistic Tributes to Rachel Corrie

 * Since we created the article on consensus, can you state your opinions on User_talk:MBisanz page. Kasaalan (talk) 19:02, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Israeli Apartheid
Can I add my small contribution to the list? 1. Shulamit Aloni, former Education minister: Yes, There is Apartheid in Israel 2. My absolute favorite: 'Balad chairman MK Jamal Zahalka, who will attend Durban II, addressed the crowd at the NGO Civil Society Forum March in Geneva on Sunday, presenting himself as a Palestinian victim of "Israeli racist apartheid" ' Arab MKs vocal in support of Durban II. --Sceptic Ashdod (talk) 22:18, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Give up?
Why do you give up?--gordonrox24 (talk) 19:16, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK
In response to your comment at Wehwalt's talk page: No comment about the content issues, since I have no knowledge of this area, but Wehwalt didn't do anything wrong on purpose. It's normal for people to copyedit hooks as they are getting ready to go up, and it is not standard for people to ask the nominators' permission before making tweaks; Wehwalt's change may have been incorrect, but it seems he was doing it based on what was actually in the article's lede, so he certainly wasn't doing it on purpose, and probably had no way of knowing the information in the article was incorrect. I hope you can retract some of your "poor form" contents and recognize that, if Wehwalt's edit was wrong, it was still no more than an honest mistake. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 20:12, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Exodus from Lydda
Congratulations on the well-deserved DYK! Although the article still needs some NPOV-tuning, it is remarkably well researched and remarkably well written. Best, -- brew crewer  (yada, yada) 20:15, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Long overdue and much deserved
Absolutely. And thank you Ian for finding a barnstar that gives due recognition to her inimitable presence here as article builder and irreplaceable collegue.Nishidani (talk) 22:10, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll be passing through your region later this year, as a way of spending my imminent forced retirement from wiki actually travelling in the real world, my objective being, as my wife does churches, to wipe myself out agreeably quaffing products in the Holy Land provided by Taybeh just as I used to do in Taibei. I'll raise a glass or several in memory of many a happy edit collaboration. Cheers Nishidani (talk) 15:01, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Don't leave the project
Tiamut, I understand that you're fed up with all the controversy that followed the creation of the Lydda Death March, but you cannot leave. We need you. You leaving will remove a huge amount of potential for quality on Palestine-related subjects on Wikipedia. If necessary, a brief wikibreak should relieve any tension. I apologize for not getting involved like I planned (once an article becomes a battle zone with over ten editors, I usually stay back and move on to other articles.) I don't know how much help I would be anyway though—not too read up on the subject like the rest of you guys. Anyway, please reconsider any decisions you might have about leaving Wikipedia. It would be a damn shame... Salaamat akhti. --Al Ameer son (talk) 07:46, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * As Ameer said, please don't leave us. Your contributions are invaluable to the project!  Take a short break and come back if you feel that might help.  It can definitely become frustrating when something you've worked so hard on gets done in like the Exodus from Lydda [sic] article.  I salute your sumud and urge you to keep at it :) --Fjmustak (talk) 09:10, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

I certainly understand your disappointment in the way this article was handled on its way to the front page. However, given the charged nature of the material it was almost certain to become the subject of disputes. If you read the discussion at DYK talk, there was an attempt to pull the article until the disputes could be resolved, but someone promoted it to the front page while the discussion was taking place. It was just a bit of unfortunate timing really.

I have long been asking myself what we could do at DYK to ensure that articles in contentious topic areas don't become subject to last-minute wrangles like this one. I think that perhaps the best way to proceed in such circumstances is to write the article in your sandbox, then invite some other users, including some of the "opposition" to review the article prior to its being moved into mainspace. In this way, we can ensure that any potential disputes are resolved before the article is nominated.

Hopefully then, we can use this incident as a learning experience to ensure that in future users do not suffer the kind of frustration that you have obviously experienced on this occasion. So perhaps something positive can come out of this. I do hope you will reconsider your decision to leave, obviously you are a valued contributor who has brought a unique perspective to the area of your interest and who has made many worthwhile contributions here. Regards, Gatoclass (talk) 10:11, 3 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Nooooooo! Please don't leave :' (  All the wrong editors get chased off.  -- M P er el  06:07, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Bounty
Tiamut, in recognition of your work I've offered a bounty of US$250 for bringing Lydda Death March to FA status. Best wishes - looking forward to your return - Ian Pitchford (talk) 12:43, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it's a valiant effort as well.
 * Cheers,  Jaakobou Chalk Talk  09:16, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXVIII (April 2009)
The April 2009 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 00:26, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks
Hi Tiamut, I just wanted to say thanks for your comment in the workshop. I was going to wait until the case is over, but as it seems that you might not be around, I'm posting now. As a new name, I was hesitant to post out of the blue in a case as sensitive as that one, but after reading the evidence I found I had strong views and wanted to say my piece. Your supportive words were much appreciated (though I have zero interest in adminship!) I hope you decide to stick around, the project has clearly benefited greatly from your presence and this will be a poorer place without you; either way I wish you all the best for the future.--MoreThings (talk) 12:26, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Come back!
Salam, I am sorry to hear that you have left the project because I see you as very vital to the project and I do value your contributions here. I have a little secret to tell you. I have another account that I abandoned a few years ago, and we used to correspond! I remember that you were fed up with Wikipedia and you were not very active, but I tried to be encouraging because there were very few editors who were attempting to balance I/P articles. Funny because I ended up leaving the project shortly after that. After coming back, I was happy to see that you have been so productive here! Please just stay and continue to be the valuable editor that you are.

I have a project for you when you come back. As I was writing an article on Hind al-Husseini, I thought of you; sounds like a subject that you maybe interested in or familiar with. I was wondering if you could help me expand the article, perhaps you might have some books that have information on her? I hope you read this message! -Falastine fee Qalby (talk) 06:52, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

please come back
you are one of the most thoughtful and genuine people here, please don't go!

you may be interested in this - it seems like slim virgin is rounding them up. untwirl (talk) 05:01, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Another "don't go"
Just another voice in the chorus. With the recent (foolish imho) Arbcom, wikipedia is suddenly bereft of too many longtime knowledgeable and committed editors from all sides of the IP area. It would be a great shame if you too remain in the number of the missing.John Z (talk) 09:01, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : XXXIX (May 2009)
The May 2009 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 04:12, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Call for opinion on a neutrality accusation in a human genetics related article
As a fellow member of the WikiProject HGH may I ask for opinions on this accusation?--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 12:00, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi
Good to see you back.John Z (talk) 22:21, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Welcome back, we need more editors like you around. --NSH001 (talk) 04:35, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree. You've been missed. harlan (talk) 08:54, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Indeed you have, welcome back.  nableezy  - 01:28, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : XL (June 2009)
The June 2009 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 00:17, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Late welcome
Ahlan wa sahlan Tiamut! Sorry for the late 'welcome back' (no excuse for it). I had a strong feeling you couldn't stay away ;) Things have been going steady for WP Palestine, but certainly have slowed down since you left. The only real contributors left were Huldra, Nableezy, myself, and Slim Virgin. So many of our fellow members (Falasteen, Fjmustak, Yamanam, Ian Pitchford, and Padres Hana just off the top of my head) have either become totally inactive or barely active. Your return has given me a sigh of relief and I hope we'll collaborate soon. Good luck and stay strong! --Al Ameer son (talk) 18:07, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Great to see you back! --Fjmustak (talk) 21:48, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Architecture
Delighted to see you back! As for architecture; I presently have the Petersen, Andrew (2002): A Gazetteer of Buildings in Muslim Palestine: Volume I (British Academy Monographs in Archaeology)  on loan from an out-of-town library...I have gotten the loan extended several times, presently until early August. I´m trying to add as much information from that book (it is a gold-mine of information!) as long as I have it. If you look at my User:Huldra/Sources you will also see several structures that *really* should have their own articles ...(Al Almeer son just started Sabil Abu Nabbut...so I will have to run along and expand that..) The Mausoleum of Abu Huraira is really, really wanted, too. And if you look under User:Huldra/Sources ...you will find links to an Umayyad Palace! As for other books, for "newer" stuff, I see that there is a bit in The Object of Memory By Susan Slyomovics...mostly about Ayn Hawd. This for a start... Take care, Huldra (talk) 01:11, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * ooopsh; the Musha' (or land-owner-ship in general) ..is one area  I know next to nothing about...sorry to disappoint you, dear!
 * However, if you like to help with an Umayyad palace...then Khirbat al-Minya is the place to go!
 * And yeah; as always; WP is filled with all the usual traps...there are, as ever, a thousand ways to get blocked.....banned...or sidetracked. Take care, Huldra (talk) 21:16, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I hope you will see Tawfiq Canaan as FA soon... I´m on the lookout for his 1927 "Mohammedan Saints and Sanctuaries in Palestine". AFAIK it is no longer copyrighted, and apparently some Israelis have already republished it and sell it. It really should be in public domain. Btw, lots of stuff, including all the old  "Palestine Exploration Fund  Quarterly" statements are now freely available and downloadable over at http://www.archive.org. Likewise le Strange (1890) "Palestine under the Moslems". Extremely useful stuff!
 * And yeah; of course I´m with you on trying to get Palestinian costumes to FA! And while we are at it, we really should try to get Bayt Dajan to GA; I don´t think much is missing there for GA level. It is, however, a great pity we do not have any photo of a Bayt Dajan dress..
 * I find it very useful to develop articles in user-space; I have my User:Huldra/Sources as a "catch-all". Kafr Saba and Khirbat al-Minya already grew out of that page. I would also strongly suggest we develop some of the architecture-articles from there..like the Mamluk bridges (perhaps before you launch your -much needed- Architecture-article?)


 * And I see you are involved with Palestinian botany (I wonder if some people get an allergic reaction, hearing the word "Palestine"? Do red rashes and boils break out all over their body when they read *that* word? Just wondered. (Hereafter, we must adopt the Harry Potter-model, and call it : "The land that must not be mentioned".))


 * Anyway, ahem, I don´t believe *any* of you studied biology? ´Cause all these "lists" and Taxonomy in general was a subject most in vogue in biology  pre WWI. (Afterwards, and especially after WWII, biologist have mostly been interested (or rather: have been given the possibility to develop an interest) in other subjects, such as ecological problems.)


 * Now, this means that for many subject, and in many areas of the world; the most comprehensive taxonomy works are pre 1900. (In Scandinavia; the books of Georg Sars (d.1927) are still the most comprehensive w.r.t. many marine invertebrates.... )


 * I´m not especially  familiar with botany in the Middle East, but I *do* know that the Palestine Exploration Fund (and others!) made some very extensive research into the subject in the 19th century, see eg:


 * Henry Baker Tristram, (1884): The Survey of Western Palestine. The fauna and flora of Palestine
 * Henry Baker Tristram, (1885) The Survey of Western Palestine: The fauna and flora of Palestine


 * ...if biologist in the Israel, post 1948, have done similar extensive research as the 19th century guys did, then it will mean that they are rather old-fashioned(!) Seriously. (Ok, ok; just my 2-cent. But lists, or even Taxonomy per se, have *not* had a very high status among biologists for say, the last century...)


 * And a century ago, it was called "Palestine" "The land that must not be mentioned" -among scientist..


 * Take care, my dear, Huldra (talk) 19:13, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it is a good idea to take a few *major* buildings in each period.. And I think it is time to start Mausoleum of Abu Huraira, I will be looking for more sources the next few days...User:Shuki has just uploaded some nice pictures, see Gamaliel II ;-D Cheers, Huldra (talk) 23:29, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Heh, yeah well; I think I will make this my night with Jaakobou! (or rather: with his history..)Btw; Jaakobou is the only one (during my 4 years on WP) who has ever reported me as a vandal..and not once, but twice! (I´ll find the diffs somewhere) ;-D Take care, cheers, from the  vandal,  Huldra (talk) 23:41, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Christianity Newsletter - July 2009
John Carter (talk) 23:10, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Some info for you
Hey Tiamut! I hope you don't mind, but I noticed on Huldra's talk page that you were starting an article on the Architecture of Palestine. Well I was working on the Azm Palace (Hama), and I came across this source: Traditional domestic architecture of the Arab Region. It doesn't have tons of information about our native architecture, but on page 42 and pages 180-182, there are decent pieces of info on the "unique" cross-vaulting in Palestinian architecture. There might be more bits on other pages, but you'll have to look for those ;) Salaamat, --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:53, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Welcome back!
Welcome back :) I think your new plan sounds good. We have had a number of I/P disqualifications at DYK since your break, so it's definitely best to be on the safe side if you think an article of yours might attract some controversy.

Other than that, my impression is that behaviour around the I/P pages has generally improved in recent months, so I hope you will find your contribution here a little more pleasant this time around :) Gatoclass (talk) 11:10, 20 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Welcome back. Shubinator (talk) 01:03, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi
Hi, Tiamut, good to hear from you. Trust me, I know how passions can get inflamed on this topic; I am not immune myself (I would not be considered an "uninvolved" admin for sanction purposes). But we all really need to do our best to minimize the personal elements. I mean, how can we expect any real progress in the actual area from the political leaders, if editors on wikipedia cannot get certain basics accomplished. The legalities and aspects of international law are fascinating, under much debate, and perhaps worthy of their own article based on analysis, but people of one persuasion claiming that the other side are violating international law or whatnot (and I am not pointing to any one person now) can only prevent any rapport. So while I admit to having my own opinions on the matter, the history, the politics, etc., I hope that my behavior to all involved is fair and courteous enough that when I feel the need to step in and try and douse some of the fire, it is taken for what it truly is, an attempt to re-focus the conversation, and not some ham-handed sysop throwing his or her weight around. Thank you. -- Avi (talk) 14:27, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

aw shucks
you're a sweetie. i'm so glad you're back! gawd this place needs a feminine touch (and mine's a bit too calloused sometimes). you didn't miss anything, same old shit. good luck! untwirl (talk) 17:42, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Coffee
hi, I'm at work so I can't write at length, but I saw your edit summary at coffee inquiring "what happened to the legend of Kaldi the goatherder" so I'll respond quickly now --

I've been gathering sources on the history of coffee (see the bottom of the "talk:coffee"), where I learned (as you already knew) that Kaldi/Khalid/(?) is a legend, so I tried to make an effort to clear this up using the word "apocryphal" somewhere, (the more important point being that coffee was first consumed as a beverage in the 15th century, and not in the "era" that Kaldi was supposed to have lived.

In doing so I may have accidentally deleted the references to him. Obviously, this legend does deserve to be featured prominently in the article; no argument about that. My only concern is that, 2 hours ago, I started a discussion at the talk page regarding the historical origin of coffee in Yemen vs. Ethiopia which I'm afraid could get hairy.

I just want you to be aware that this mini-debate is going on, and ask that you take some caution to familiarize yourself with the terms of our discussion, before you make whatever changes you plan to make regarding Kaldi. Again, you might consider making use of the useful historical sources that I've aggregated at the bottom of talk:coffee.

cheers, Agradman talk/contribs 19:36, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

International vestibules, foyers, and lobbies
Thanks for cleaning up my prose. :) -- Avi (talk) 21:28, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If you'd like to take a crack at cleaning up more of my prose, on a different topic for a change, see Jack Coggins and Featured article candidates/Jack Coggins/archive2. -- Avi (talk) 23:18, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for your help in the Israel lobby article. Its nice when we reach across the aisle. :) --GHcool (talk) 22:05, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Re: Can you delete this
Done, tisba'akhayr (you know what I mean... can't spell too well in English-Arabic ;) --Al Ameer son (talk) 01:23, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

haim farhi
Nice that you want to claim Haim Farhi as an Arab, and I am all for an end to nationalistic battles, but the mere fact of being born in Damascus does not make him an Arab. I work for a well-known Iraqi Jewish professor, born in Baghdad, who defines himself as an "Arab Jew." But certainly Farhi was not an "Ottoman Arab."--Gilabrand (talk) 07:50, 24 July 2009 (UTC)