User talk:Tiamut/Archive 4

Nadia Abu El Haj redux
You need to see the article in today's New York Times. It's rich with details about Abu El-Haj, her background, and the tenure battle — and the fact that Paula Stern (who started the campaign against her tenure) lives in a Jewish colony on the West Bank. — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 19:56, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Attempts to reduce the Arabic language status
A user known for his/her Anti-Arab agenda made it his/her mission to claim that all Arabic dialects are independent languages, starting with Egyptian Arabic dialect. Egyptian Arabic (Maṣrī مصري) is an Arabic dialect. has to be clearly emphasized in the Egyptian Arabic article Arabic dialect has to be clearly added in the infobox an openning sentence so it dont get confused as a language!--Skatewalk 20:35, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The only language to branch out of Arabic is Maltese. Can you please help me organize these articles?.

Thank you
Dear Tiamut,

I had a look at your personal page, and I do really admire your work. I am planning to start translating the articles that u already prepared on Wikipedia English into arabic and to publish them on Wikipedia arabic, I might be needing your help every once in a while, and I even might need some references from you, can we work together to enrich Wikipedia Arabic with the kind of articles u usually write?

Thank you very much in advance

--Yamanam 09:11, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Jerusalem maps.
I have been compiling some external links to Jerusalem maps here: *Positions_on_Jerusalem

See also:
 * commons:Category:Maps of Jerusalem

They may be useful in various discussions on article talk pages, etc.. I believe also that UN maps are in the public domain, and can be uploaded to the commons. I believe User:ChrisO negotiated that with the UN people. --Timeshifter 15:58, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Tiamut, for the barnstar! There is more info on map resources, UN maps, copyright tags, etc. on my user page at User:Timeshifter, and in the resources section at commons:Category:Maps.--Timeshifter 00:12, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Egyptians article
I am also doing more researh about this subject, so it can be referenced. As of now the article is very vague reffering to the Egyptians as natives to the Nile valley, when its known that EGypt was settled by Syrian Semites (Hyksos~closely related to the Edomites), Nubians, Libyans, Greeks and pre-islamic Arabs (Ghassanids in Alexanderia, Banu Judham and Sacasik (Zaqaziq-Sharqiya) before Islam. Then the major influx of Muslim Arabs into Egypt 7th and 8th century.--Skatewalk 20:14, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

So we speak 22 languages?
Can you please help Zerida (and her sock-puppets) understand that Egyptian Arabic is a dialect (because now she is claiming that its a language!), I think she is already taking it personal! (Egyptian Arabic)I mean once they declare every dialect a Language I will have a beautiful resume with 22 languages on it, but as of now unfortunately the constituition of Egypt and every Arab nation only recognizes one Arabic language as the only Arabic language!--Skatewalk 18:10, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Allegations of Israeli apartheid
Hi Tiamut,

Thank you for your kind response, and yeah I am celebrating Ramdan; w enta bkhair ;-) Ramadan Kareem to u if u r celebrating Ramadan too... Sir, I have a small question, r u aware of the changes that have been made to the article Allegations of Israeli apartheid???

I thought that it is better that u have a look at it.

Thank you --Yamanam 09:42, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Kokua Needed - Again
Hi, it's me again! I hate to bother you yet again, but a formal Request for Comment has been made (by LarryQ)on the Legal status of Hawaii page surrounding the "Undue" issue, and those who were previously involved are being asked to comment. Since you were part of this discussion (and I feel an important part), could you please take a look? It's getting pretty heated, and I think that your thoughts would be helpful, as they have been fair and calming in the past. I respect that you are busy, but if you are able to look at the discussion, that would be great. Mahalo, & Aloha! -- Laualoha 01:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Tegwarrior
I posted the diffs that led to the 3RR violation on his talk page. That should, hopefully, explain the situation. Also, I chose to block the user because he made the initial 3RR report, so I assumed he knew of the policy. Nishkid64 (talk) 21:38, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

A slight whisper escapes the not-quite soundproof cell where the truth is kept ...

[http://blog.camera.org/archives/2007/09/electrical_charges.html ... but sound engineers are quickly on the case.]

Tegwarrior 16:16, 24 September 2007 (UTC) ;-)

Your mediation skills...
Your mediation skills are great. I originally visited the Hawaii article when I saw you get complimented, I wanted to see what you did and how you did it. At some point, I'd like to talk more about how you handle your placement within the RfC. Regardless of what others there say, I'd urge you to hold to your self-identification as a mediator, not an involved party. Sure, one side or another may try, in effect, to recruit or claim you for their side (or attack you as biased for the other side). I've see that happening subtly or bluntly w/me. But if you're interceding as an uninvolved party, stick to your guns (or the sea god equivalent)! So, I'd still suggest that you refactor your statements (and your direct interlocutors, like me) elsewhere on that RfC. But we can go into this more later, as you wish. Take care. HG | Talk 21:03, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, didn't realize you're such a bohemian. LOL. Sure, the distinction is hazy, esp since a mediator can end up suggesting and implementing edits. But the distinction may be a key to your effectiveness, both in how you are perceived by others and your ability to keep an open mind to competing views. I'd guess that your friendship w/Laualoha won't be altered if you play a neutral role, as you define it, but it's up to you. (Alternatively, you can serve as an advocate for her cause, I can't read your mind.) Anyway, given what's happened, I don't feel comfortable refactoring your comments unless Laualoha chimes in here w/her ok. BTW, it's a good sign that Jere is back, because he exemplifies more clearly what it means to be an involved party. Ciao. HG | Talk 21:42, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't have said all of the above were I not confident in your ability to set aside (compartmentalize) your sympathies when choosing a neutral role. One trick would be to focus on the dissimilarities between the Hawaiian and Palestinian "nations" (I'm glad our relationship has weathered that stormy little argument) and their situations, and to find ways to sympathize w/Jere's view. Don't get lead poisoning or too much particulate dust during your rehab breaks... Adieu. HG Talk 22:16, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Welcome back. Hope your houses (real and wikipedian) are in good shape. :-) HG | Talk 14:39, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Aloha. Thank you so much for all of your hard hard work. It has meant a lot to me, and I think it will mean a lot to the page no matter what happens. I have to be honest with you (and I feel terrible saying this after asking for your mediation help, and getting so much more than I ever could have asked for!)in saying that I don't know if I can stay on WP. Re-doing this article would take a huge investment of time on my part, and I'm willing to invest that time, but being forced to fight this hard to justify even starting the article is taking the energy that I need for real-world struggles. I am a native healing person in a community with lots of struggles(not quite the paradise people see on tv) and front-line warrior (not to mention mom & band member/organizer); I just cannot justify to all those to whom I'm responsible, spending my mana on this kind of forced theoretical discussion without being able to even get to the article itself. It also looks like there may just be too many others who do not think WP policy allows for equal representation, and while I can do some fixes to problematic pages, I just can't keep fighting them or be part of creating something that is not pono. I believe in consensus, but I can't facilitate more bias, and that's truly what I feel less-than-equal representation on this subject would be. I never thought so many people would see it the other way, I guess. I don't know, I will try to hang on, but I have to ask myself, how much is this page (that I may never get to) worth in real-world hours? I'm sure you must ask yourself the same question while you work on your house (congratulations on that, btw, sounds awesome!!). I'll stay on if I can, and I can for sure do this for a little while longer --specifically because of your inspiring peace efforts and research approach (!!!) -- but I wanted to let you know honestly where I'm at. My 3-yr old boss may have the last say. One way or another, I've learned so much... Again, mahalo nui for everything!!!! Aloha, -- Laualoha 13:36, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, scratch all my whining above...Sorry! Another editing angel just convinced me to stay. What was I thinking? I've just gotta take my own advice and jump in the ocean. Mahalo nui for your patience in putting up with me! Aloha, -- Laualoha 22:13, 24 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laualoha (talk • contribs)

Mahalo

 * Aloha, Tiamut. Thanks for your comment on my talk page and please pardon my slow reply. Work has been hard, and then there have been other battles to wage in other Hawaii articles! I've mostly tried to stay away from the legal or Hawaiian sovereignty issues, simply because I don't feel it's appropriate for me to really weigh in. I did a bit and then decided I might be misconstrued. As you note, my interest has been to try to see that what's there is fair to both sides of a complex issue, yet still does justice to the perspectives of the aggrieved. Anyhow, is the RfC issue still active? If so, and if my comments towards mediation might be helpful, I'd be happy to help. Thanks for your mediation efforts, and aloha, Arjuna 09:33, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I left something for you ;-)


Tegwarrior 05:57, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Palestinian music
Dear Tiamut,

I have written a section in Music of Israel which contains material you might want to add to your article on Palestinian music.

In researching the subject, I came across some more interesting stuff, which doesn't really apply too much to Israeli Palestinians, but is certainly relevant to Palestinians living in the diaspora. I wrote it up at User:Ravpapa/My Drafts.

Read it over and feel free to use it as you see fit.

Regards, --Ravpapa 21:17, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Later: Received this enlightening comment from Fjmustak:


 * Hi Ravpapa,
 * I noticed in your "My Drafts" secion, you mention that in 2003 Palestinians created the first music conservatory in Ramallah. This is not true.  The Edward Said National Conservatory of Music (previously National Conservatory of Music) was established in Ramallah in 1993. (http://ncm.birzeit.edu/new/page.php?page=background) --Fjmustak 21:48, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Regards, --Ravpapa 05:34, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Still later: Made some more additions that will interest you. Regards, --Ravpapa 13:50, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

return
Good to have you back. how are things? noticed your comment re your house and tonsilitis (at HG's page). hope you feel better. Nice to have your input again, (even if we do disagee occasionally on a few things here and there). hope things are well. --Steve, Sm8900 15:59, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * terrific! glad to have you back. glad that things are well. sounds like your renovation is quite interesting. Maybe it needs a wikipedia article too! :-) anyway, glad things are good, and it's nice to hear a litle bit about your goings-on in the real world. feel free to write and to keep in touch. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 12:50, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Wishing you well
Salamtak FayssalF. You are in my thoughts.  T i a m u t  00:01, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * thanks Tiamut. You are so kind. Hope you are doing great. -- FayssalF  -  Wiki me up®  17:33, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Clarification
Just to clarify, do you actually agree with the version you changed the Israel article to, or are you just trying to make changes based on what you have seen on the talk page? --  tariq abjotu  12:29, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

RFC discussion of User:Shamir1
A request for comments has been filed concerning the conduct of. You are invited to comment on the discussion at Requests for comment/Shamir1. -- --  tariq abjotu  03:50, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

POV reverts
Hi, Noticed you are reverting without providing an explnation. please use talk and explain why you have added this POV information and removed material which was NPOVing the article:. Thanks. Zeq 08:37, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I su8ggest you read the talk page and recent history. I have explained what I removed (way too much unrelated info in terminilogy section) you have added charateriztion of occupied" - which is not NPOV and as for the "since 2000 section" - the material I have added is relevant and natural extension to what already mentioned there but give a broader context and NPOV. In the future should you want to revert - please explain yourself first. Zeq 08:43, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

se replay on article talk page. Zeq 08:48, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

PS I have also read your user page and there are parts there I find offesnsive. Please don't use your user page to sterotype other races and/or religions/ cultures or to make fun of people from such cultures. Thank you. Zeq 08:44, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Your user page include Racial and ethnic charteriztions that creates a very negative and hostile environment to people who view your user page. Please remove that. You can not make fun on people just because they are Jewish and/or you despise the reason they come to your town. You have no idea what releigion is a person just by hearing a recording of his voice or what makes them come to visit "your town" - together this is offensive as it realtes to a whole group (the jews from tel-Aviv). Zeq 09:02, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

NB: To the drive-by reader. I've responded to Zeq on his talk page. The passage in question is part of a poem I wrote called "sounds of my city". It reads: hebrew - the voices of the jewish tourists from tel aviv getting their "authentic arab experience"  T i a m u t  09:14, 19 October 2007 (UTC)


 * About your other comment regarding "stereotyping" on my user page which you claim to find offensive. Please explain what you are referring to.  T i a m u t  08:51, 19 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Nazareth is my town Zeq and the Jews from Tel Aviv are tourists when they come to visit it. Sorry that you find that kind of statement offensive, but that's how I see things. Thanks for your comments. Good day sir.  T i a m u t  09:06, 19 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I find the way you charterize those who visit "your town" offensive. Wikipedia user pages should be free of any material which does not promote a hospitable editing environment so I ask again that you remove it Zeq 09:16, 19 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I am describing the sounds of my city in that poem on my user page Zeq. One of the sounds is Hebrew, which people in Nazareth do not speak in their daily lives which is why I write: "hebrew - the voices of the jewish tourists from tel aviv getting their 'authentic arab experience'". If you find this offensive, I think you are being just a little oversensitive.  T i a m u t  09:19, 19 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Please avoid making charterization of your fellow editors - this violates WP:NPA which sais:"Comments should not be personalized".

I expect that you will: Zeq 09:29, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) appologize for your personal attcks on me (2 so far)
 * 2) fix your user page to make it hospitable to people from all locals and all religions - this must be done regardless of your views on people from Tel-Aviv that come to visit your town and your assesment of their motives
 * 3) I remind you that not all "Hebrew speakers from Tel-Aviv" are jews. (most are but not all)


 * If I may chime in...it is just a poem about personal observations. Is not a call to violence or an expression of an extremist agenda or any of the usual things that get people in trouble for having polemical stuff on their user pages.  If you really have a problem with it, thne you know where to file a complaint I'm sure, but I highly doubt that anyone would make a decision to delete it. Tarc 13:10, 19 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Why file a complaint ? I am sure it was an oversight so I point it out and the editor can remove it from his/hers user page. Zeq 14:25, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Best version of Arab citizens of Israel
Hi Tiamut - do you know at what point the Arab citizens article attained it's most encyclopedic form? I ask, because it was clearly well written at one point and it could be valuable to save a snapshot of it in that condition. There may be other examples of articles that are deteriorating with time, and it would be worth saving a "best copy" of each before we forget what they were like. PRtalk 16:51, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Boycott Israel - The Palestinian Campaign for Boycott Divestment Sanctions Against Israel.jpg
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Attalla Hanna
I don't know if you're familiar with this wiki, but it has a timeline of the positions he's held. http://orthodoxwiki.org/Theodosios_%28Hanna%29_of_Sebastia Also, here's an article from arabs48.com that has a timeline: http://ajras.org/?page=show_details&Id=188&CatId=&table=news I have an objection to using Archbishop in the title, but I'll discuss that later. Good work. --Fjmustak 18:55, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * On the use of "Archbishop": Titles are omitted from kings and queens names in Wikipedia (Solomon, Hussein of Jordan, Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom, etc...). I do notice that popes (e.g. Pope Benedict XVI) have the title "Pope" in front of their names (which I disagree with as well), but at least when it comes to popes, the name is specifically associated with title (they get new names as popes), while Attallah Hanna received the name Theodosios at priesthood, way before becoming archbishop.... Also, where do you draw the line on whether to include title or not?  At Archbishop, Metropolitan, Archimandrite, Parish priest, so on... These are roughly my thoughts on the matter.  BTW, Can you please point me to the guideline you mentioned about naming articles about religious figures?  Thanks. --Fjmustak 00:44, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Agree. We shouldn't change it if there's a specific guideline.  We should change the guideline itself :)  I've already added a note to the talk page of the naming conventions article.  Thanks. --Fjmustak (talk) 20:54, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

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