User talk:Tiamut/Archive 7

Definitive opportunity
Good afternoon, T. If you'd like, we can try to get Postage stamps and postal history of the Palestinian National Authority ready for a DYK. As I calculate it, prior to Feb 9th we had 1600 bytes on the topic. Since Feb 9th, another 1600 prior to spinout and now up to 7600. So we only need 1400 more for the 5x expansion threshold (5x1600) before Feb 14th. (I also have some media coverage of PNA and stamps/postal stuff as raw data, if you'd like to read it.) Interested? HG | Talk 17:44, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, so you're working on something calming, like the Archaelogy of the Holy Land, good for you! (Laughing privately to self...;-) Hope it goes well, HG | Talk 19:04, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * My dear colleague. I'm a twinkie and do not want to get embroiled w/That author, so I came up with a perfectly useful source, one that you might well use in other contexts. How about if we go with less-the-merrier for now, and you can reinsert and debate it after, ahem, five days from now? Milquetoastfully yours, HG | Talk 04:31, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you kindly. And I agree not to worry about the other article, at least for now, because there's the whole broader messiness to deal with. Meanwhile, I'd recommend a wiki rather than coffee break, or maybe a crossword puzzle.... your circadian cycle will return in due course. Take care of yourself, HG | Talk 04:44, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I'll refrain from further comment. As you say, I know what it's like plus you did alot of hard (sleepless?) work there. Please go back, though, and revise the "No way, out of line" to something more, well, respectful. PS I did find some interesting sources for you. Thanks. HG | Talk 18:52, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This source is good & worth reading, dealing with the history of the discipline and the Israeli practitioners. (They use Palestinian archaeol among other terms.) -- "Israeli Archaeology" Ofer Bar-Yosef; Amihai Mazar in World Archaeology, Vol. 13, No. 3, Regional Traditions of Archaeological Research II. (Feb., 1982), pp. 310-325. More random ideas: "Ceramics, Ethnicity, and the Question of Israel's Origins" William G. Dever in The Biblical Archaeologist, Vol. 58, No. 4, Pots & People. (Dec., 1995), pp. 200-213. both JSTOR. Dever seems like a real bulldog on this terminology debate, prolific. "A Passion for Cultural Difference. Archaeology and Ethnicity of the Southern Levant" by N Anfinset, Norwegian Archaeological Review, 2003. (I think deals w/both the interpreters and the interpretations.) "The Bible, Archaeology and Politics; or The Empty Land Revisited" by Biblicist J Blenkinsopp, Journal for the Study of the Old Testament, 2002. Biblical Archaeology as an Academic Discipline in Search of Its Academic Identity, PF Craffert - Religion and Theology, 1998. (Didn't look but good title, eh?) Ever fix that email? Take care, HG | Talk 19:27, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Archaeology articles
I read the article, and as I wrote, I saw nothing there that could not be better placed, in context, in either Biblical Archaeology or Archaeology of Israel. It is somewhat silly to have an article about the archaeology of the area of Israel, the West Bank and Jordan which, for example, only includes criticism of Yadin, one of most well known archaeologists of the area, without talking about him and his work. Feel free to discuss on the article's talk page. Canadian Monkey (talk) 21:11, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What gives is that there is an ungoing discussion, so please don't unilaterally remove the tag until we reach consensus. I will provide a detailed reply on the Talk page of the article, but that takes more time. Canadian Monkey (talk) 02:47, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi tiamut! Thanks for the note! Yes, it is a facinating subject...and (yet another) subject I know too little about. However, it looks like re-evaluation of Biblical Archaeology is slightly less painful (for the involved) than re-evaluation of the Archaeology of Israel....if the treatment of Nadia Abu El Haj is anything to go by....

As of Palestinian archaeology, are you familiar with:
 * Kapitan, Tomis (editor): Archaeology, History and Culture in Palestine and the Near East: Essays in Memory of Albert E. Glock (ISBN: 078850584X)
 * Fox, Edward: Palestine Twilight. The Murder of Dr Albert Glock and the Archaeology of the Holy Land. (ISBN: 0002556073) see also:, , Take care, Huldra (talk) 15:16, 12 February 2008 (UTC) PS: my edit-line is taken from the NewStateman article. Interesting quote,eh?

...ooopsh, I almost forgot: the one online Archaeology magazine I read at regular intervals ...it is aimed at a "popular" readership, but the people behind it seem to have quite solid knowledge of archaeology. Very entertaining. (And people can interpret that negatively or positively, as they like!) You will get a few articles if you search for "Palestinian", including this: Take care! Huldra (talk) 15:41, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Books: West Bank Thriller by Sandra Scham, Volume 55 Number 1, January/February 2002
 * WAC vs. the Wall, Volume 57 Number 2, March/April 2004

Tried to dig up WAC´s press release, but just found this: Cheers, Huldra (talk) 16:35, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

First: three articles about more general issues:
 * general view,
 * Sites and Shrines in Palestine by By Hamdan Taha, 24.11.2006, This Week In Palestine

Also: there really should be something more about the Tell es-Sultan-digs:
 * -
 * more about Tell es-Sultan

In the last part, you could add something about the controversy over the Dead Sea Scrolls:
 * dispute over Dead Sea Scrolls also in CNN And in general, very interesting article; about how it is claimed that Israeli law encourages theft (since they do not allow digs, but do allow trade):

..also: I think you should cut out the sentence: "An anonymous archaeologist who worked on collaborative Palestinian projects accused Taha of being "autocratic" and "very political""; an encyclopedia should not rely on  anonymous sources like that..IMO. Have to log out now, take care, you do great work! Huldra (talk) 18:42, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I'm curious why you deleted this edit by User:Canadian Monkey: "In contrast to the religious motivations of Biblical archaeologists, Israeli archaeology, dating back to 1950s, developed as a secular discipline motivated in part by the nationalistic desire to affirm the link between the modern, nascent Israeli nation-state and the ancient Jewish population of the land. Paleolithic archaeology was of little interest, as was archaeology of Christian and Muslim periods.." You might want to restore and critique it, either thru an edit summary or the Talk page. Thanks. HG | Talk 19:26, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I didn't realize that I had deleted that. It must have been a mouse error. In any case, it's since been restored, thankfully. You are correct in noting that it is relevant, reliably sourced and a great asset to the article.  T i a m u t talk 13:41, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Military history coordinator selection
The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process is starting. We are aiming to elect nine coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please sign up here by February 14! Woody (talk) 10:46, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Spamming
Hi I was wondering how do I go about protecting my page from spamming? --Gamal Al-Ansary (talk) 23:16, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Nadia Abu El Haj
Hi Tiamut, I corrected the nationality for this person and noted so on the talk page. Does this person hold duel citizenship? If so, can you please provide a source and then we can edit the page accordingly. Thank you. --70.109.223.188 (talk) 14:16, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe we should have others comment? I will not revert it again. Regards, --70.109.223.188 (talk) 19:02, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Need your consent
Please follow up my recent request/comment here: Talk:Palestinian_fedayeen.

With respect,  Jaakobou Chalk Talk  05:22, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Palestinian Christian
Thanks for improving my edits. I tried to locate the English equivalent sources by couldn't find any, and I'm glad you found some, and also added and corrected relevant details in the article. -- Gabi S. (talk) 14:12, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Hello
How are you? I think for many days we don't talk...i find some hard in writing like this things the color or the design of the page..> hope you are alright ..--O.waqfi (talk) 18:11, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Syro-Palestinian archaeology
Your DYK hook does not appear to be supported by reliable sources. I think you will either need to change the hook or come up with a hook that is clearly cited. I can see you've done a lot of work on this article, and I'm sure you'd be disappointed to miss out on getting it featured on DYK. Regards, Gatoclass (talk) 06:01, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, your source looks fine, as the next update is already finalized I will try to get your hook into the one after that :) Gatoclass (talk) 09:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * sure..welcome in Irbid :) is everything in wikipedia good with you? .i want to ask you. do you know how to make colors here something like that. --O.waqfi (talk) 09:37, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Let me know when you're ready for me to come back and mess with your mind (and article) some more. ;-) Mazel tov, HG | Talk 14:13, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

You know, I put a new comment on article Talk, but it might be better to talk about this on user Talk first. I'd like to avoid having to make a long logical and/or referenced argument to demonstrate that the Archaeology of Israel covers much the same ground (literally, eh?!) as Syro-Palestinian archaeology. Now that things have settled down a bit, maybe you can let me know where you stand on this question. From what I can tell, any reliable source on "Archaeology of /Palestine/Syria/Israel/Southern Levant" could be used for the article and constitutes part of the discipline discussed there. (Unless it belongs more on the Biblical side.) So, let me know where you are on this, ok? Take care, HG | Talk 19:41, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't know if your on wiki now, just wrote you a note in article Talk. Fixed your email? See ya, HG | Talk 12:02, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Mar7aba
sorry that i rewrite to you so late..I mean like this, (E.g):  something like this.i forget what these things name.--O.waqfi (talk) 14:06, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

thansk for the page :)..i don't want to ask them.mabye they are busy, "Tiamut" i didn't know your real name, do you have account at ar.wikipedia (arabic) ?--O.waqfi (talk) 14:25, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes..it will be OK....In wikipedia Englsih i am interseted too in my country "jordan" i am writing articles about it..everyone must improve these things here. i want to tell you something mabye we will not talk to me next Time.really i am still at school :| ..plz don't take anything wrong about me.--O.waqfi (talk) 15:18, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Congrats
Just wanted to say Mabruk! on Palestinian costumes passing its GA review and Syro-Palestinian arhchaelogy getting they DYK!

You clearly deserve this...

Archiving.
First 40 sections are now archived to #12. -- Avi (talk) 15:08, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Your comments on my Talk page
Your threats will not get you far, and I suggest you look at your own actions before rushing of to AE. I will add mention of the Golan heights to that section, and will continue the discussion in detail later tonight, as I'm off to work. Canadian Monkey (talk) 17:31, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

(posting response here for the record since some users tend to vanish later): This comment on my talk page where you refer to above comment as a "threat" is uncalled for. I am giving you a fair warning that I view your editing at that page to be disruptive. It was good of you to re-add the Golan Heights as you did in this edit just now. Clearly, that is an acknowledgement that your edit removing that information was inappropriate. I am still waiting for a response to a number of other issues on the talk page and would to like to discuss that issue with you further, since it's still not clear to me that the site is in indeed inside Israel proper and that suggestion remains at the top of that section, per your previous edit. I do understand however that you have to go to work. So I'll be expecting to hear from you later. Do be aware however, that I am very serious about this warning, and I expect that when you return to editing, you will give plenty of consideration to the unanswered issues I have raised regarding your edits on the talk page there before continuing to make edits without regard to discussion. Thanks.  T i a m u t talk 17:46, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * When you write on my Talk page that unless I do something, you will report me, you are making a threat. You may feel the threat is justified, but you are making a threat, nonetheless, and using the euphemism "I am giving you a fair warning" does not change the nature of the threat. If you don't want to be called on it, the answer is simple, don't make threats. My restoration of the "Golan Heights" is not an acknowledgment of anything, other than that I am ok with that version, as well, just like your removal of the claim that this is territory captured from Syria in 1967 does not, I think, constitute an acknowledgment on your part that its original inclusion was inappropriate. Please continue the discussion on the article Talk page, and not on mine. Canadian Monkey (talk) 06:50, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi...how are you?..since that messeage you didn't send to me,,,do you join arab project--O.waqfi (talk) 14:03, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

The notice
i've made the change on palestinian fedayeen, I hope it's agreeable.  Jaakobou Chalk Talk  00:42, 23 February 2008 (UTC) p.s. you can maybe play with it to try another suggestions that we could discuss if you're not 100% pleased with it.  Jaakobou Chalk Talk  00:43, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Sde Warburg
The moshav, named after Otto Warburg, is located in Drom HaSharon Regional Council, north of Kfar Saba, not in the Be'er Tuvia Regional Council, which is around Kiryat Mal'akhi, an entirely different part of the country. You are confusing with Kfar Warburg, named after Felix M. Warburg. FYI. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 19:03, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Your recent edits
Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment. If you can't type the tilde character, you should click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 00:31, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Keep it up
Just thought I'd say keep it up. I admire your diligence and intelligence and i think that you do an awful lot of good work at Wikipedia. Delad (talk) 14:38, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Gratias tibi ago
Undeserved. It should have been blanked. I've only just grazed it, there's much to do, and all over the place, not just there. One must just repeat to oneself the consoling modern Greek mantra, fazouli to fazouli yemizi to sakkouli(bean by bean the sack is filled). Best regards Nishidani (talk) 22:35, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Invite
I'm inviting you to our old discussion here Talk:Palestinian_fedayeen as I've opened a 3O request and it is currently underway.  Jaakobou Chalk Talk  13:07, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
 * A reminder to continue discussions.  Jaakobou Chalk Talk  11:01, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIV (February 2008)
The February 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 08:15, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Falafel
Greetings,

As you were one of two users edit warring over the "History" section of Falafel, I would like to ask you to PLEASE come to the talk page and Workshop page. I'd rather see a consensus article and see the page unlocked, than let it sit the whole time and just see edit warring resume.

Thanks, M1rth (talk) 22:18, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I have made contributions to the workshop page there. I was not "edit-warring", I was trying to make changes to the text to offset the mass blanking of sourced material and no one responded to my requests for discussion. You were involved in the mass blanking the history section yourself, predicated on bad-faith accusations. Please refrain from mass blankings in the future. Thanks.  T i a m u t talk 11:05, 9 March 2008 (UTC)


 * You and Gilabrand were, in fact, edit warring. The History section was removed so that you two (and any more sockpuppets/meatpuppets either one of you might bring) would be forced to work out a compromise without either feeling "safe" that "your" version was protected in place and thereby made default. This was not a "mass blanking" but a tactic to try to force you both to the negotiation table, since neither of you was willing to do anything than revert-war prior. M1rth (talk) 15:22, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Repeat: I removed the material for two reasons. First, as the traced Contribs work of sockpuppetteer/vandal and second, because you and Gilabrand kept going at it.  The page was protected so that neither of you would feel "your" version was set, a mediation tactic which Gwen Gale respected and agreed with in our Editprotected request to Alison. Please stop behaving in this manner and stop personally attacking me. It is also unhelpful for you to revert-war my talk page and place false warnings and personal attacks. M1rth (talk) 15:46, 9 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I was not revert-warring. I was trying to make changes based on the sources cited. Further, I have participated in the page you set up, but please don't pretend you are blameless here. You mass blanked the material three times in one hour, , , and your edit summary cast aspersions (please read WP:NPA against the editor trying to re-add the material. Further, they did not add it, I did. So please, try to edit more collaboratively in the future. While it's nice that you opened finally opened up an RfC and discussion page for the subject, I might note that you were against the inclusion of the material altogether from the beginning and you were revert-warring to keep it out. So don't act like you're playing mediator here. You're an involved party, as much as those you accuse of revert-warring. Thanks.  T i a m u t talk 15:34, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

I'll take this in order, slowly for you to digest.
 * 1) - The first removal was because '''the edit was traced to a sockpuppet of  through contribs history. You can see the CheckUser for yourself.
 * 2) - If you will notice, none of those editors reverted more than once. In retrospect and after discussion on IRC with a couple other editors, likely they realized their mistake due to poorly coded "anti-vandal tools which do not give proper background, since they did not return or object.
 * 3) - The presence of  was bad enough, but you're being pretty vitriolic and obstinate in your own right. I'll be ultra-clear just so maybe you understand: I don't care about the content, provided that it passes wikipedia policy. Misrepresenting sources as you did earlier isn't helping your case, either. M1rth (talk) 15:51, 9 March 2008 (UTC)


 * (edit conflit)When you delete comments from me and other editors from your talk page, forcing me to repost them here, it makes it difficult to assume good faith. I suggest that rather than trying to blank constructive criticism that you instead engage your fellow editors in discussion and leave a record on your page on that discussion, so that others do not feel you are trying to hide something. Notice I have retained your comments here, though I disagree strongly with your characterization of events. However, I will not restore the comments on your talk page again. I don't see the point, given that I've copied the discussion here. The other editor who had a problem with your editing might do well to do the same, given your unwillingness to preserve the record of our interactions yourself. Have a nice day.  T i a m u t talk 15:55, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * As to your second reply above, I did not "misrepresent" sources and I was the original author of the text in question. I do not care what "sockpuppets" re-added the information I composed, nor is that a sufficient rationale for its deletion. And I am not being "pretty vitriolic". You don't seem to understand how to engage other editors collegially, as evidenced by your block, listed at the top of your talk page. Again, have a nice day.  T i a m u t talk 15:55, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

"Constructive criticism" doesn't include making false "warning" statements. Additionally, I reviewed the source myself, it does not say what you claim it to say, therefore you did indeed misrepresent it. Again and to reiterate, I don't care about the content, provided that it passes wikipedia policy. A helpful suggestion I would make, since you seem to keep making mistakes, is to bring a proposed edit to talk pages and allow a decent amount of time for comment before making them rather than simply edit-war as you appear to often do. M1rth (talk) 16:02, 9 March 2008 (UTC)


 * If you are talking about the article Za'atar, I've replied to your deletion of the material in question at the talk page there. Your deletion is unwarranted. Please stop harassing me on my talk page and please stop deleting sourced information you don't like. It's getting very tiresome.  T i a m u t talk 16:07, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Human Genetic History draft and vote
I created a draft version of WikiProject Human Genetic History; feel free to go to it and flesh it out. Also, given that there has been some comments about starting a task force inside of an existing WikiProject vs. a full-blown project, I've started an informal poll on the WikiProject proposal page. – Swid (talk · edits) 00:27, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles
As a result of the above-named Arbitration case, the Arbitration committee has acknowledged long-term and persistent problems in the editing of articles related to Israel, Palestine, and related conflicts. As a result, the Committee has enacted broad editing restrictions, described below.


 * Any uninvolved administrator may, on his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process.
 * The sanctions imposed may include blocks of up to one year in length; bans from editing any page or set of pages within the area of conflict; bans on any editing related to the topic or its closely related topics; restrictions on reverts or other specified behaviors; or any other measures which the imposing administrator believes are reasonably necessary to ensure the smooth functioning of the project.
 * Prior to any sanctions being imposed, the editor in question shall be given a warning with a link to this decision; and, where appropriate, should be counseled on specific steps that he or she can take to improve his or her editing in accordance with relevant policies and guidelines.
 * Discretionary sanctions imposed under the provisions of this decision may be appealed to the imposing administrator, the appropriate administrators' noticeboard (currently WP:AE), or the Committee.

These editing restrictions may be applied to any editor for cause, provided the editor has been previously informed of the case. This message is to so inform you. This message does not necessarily mean that your current editing has been deemed a problem; this is a template message crafted to make it easier to notify any user who has edited the topic of the existence of these sanctions.

Generally, the next step, if an administrator feels your conduct on pages in this topic area is disruptive, would be a warning, to be followed by the imposition of sanctions (although in cases of serious disruption, the warning may be omitted). Hopefully no such action will be necessary.

This notice is only effective if given by an administrator and logged here.

Please be advised that your conduct in food articles, related to the checkusered POV-pushing and sockpuppet abuse of, may very well be in violation of the Arbitration Committee's results regarding Israeli/Palestinian conflict in articles. I am requesting that you stand down rather than my having to ask for sanctions. Please make sure that your edits are within policy, and refrain from inserting unsourced/mis-sourced/misrepresented material.M1rth (talk) 16:23, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

in regards user:M1rth
Please see. I would rather AGK review the terms of the unblock before going forward with what may be an unnecessary RfC. Jd2718 (talk) 16:26, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi. This seems dormant, but I am concerned that there was not follow-up on this, and maybe he's busy with other things, but I'm wondering if I'll get a response to this. If there isn't a response, at the next round of M1rth's outbursts I intend to go straight to a request for comment. Perhaps I was too patient in the first place. Sorry about that. Jd2718 (talk) 23:06, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Falafel/Workshop
Please see this and thank you for the constructive suggestion. Talk:Falafel/Workshop will now be available to discuss Falafel/Workshop edits. I hope this helps the discussion move along there. M1rth (talk) 17:25, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

A note
hi. where have you been all this time? hope all's well.

your note of mourning above is something i find extremely fair and even-handed, and moving. I know your basic sympathies are with your own people.I appreciate your ability to express the general grief for both sides which all right-thinking people should feel. someday peace will come. the building blocks are already there. I hope things will be better for all. hope things are good with you. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 13:50, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Hello
how are you ? since olng time i didn't talk to you ..... :) hope you are alirght --O.waqfi (talk) 15:13, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Arab vote at the 1999 elections
Hi Tiamut. I'd be interested to know where you got the figure of 65,000 Arab votes for Zionist parties in the 1999 election - are there figures available for others? It could be an interesting piece of information to add to the election article series. Cheers, пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  12:55, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, must have missed that when I was reading through. As for the unclear bit, I assume you are referring to the sentence
 * "and the 1999 elections when non-Arab parties received only 65,000 Arab votes, around 20% of the total (the Labor Party's share was about 17,000 votes, as was Meretz's. The rest were divided between the two ruling parties at the time: Shas and the Likud), though that election was based on the two-ballot system, which meant that voters could cast one ballot for Prime Minister (the only Arab candidate, Azmi Bishara, withdrew before the election, with Labor's Ehud Barak winning 95% of the Arab vote) and the other for an Arab party."
 * It is a bit wordy, but I didn't want to remove the info you added as it is all useful stuff, but I'll have a go at clearing it up. Regards, пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  13:07, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I managed to find an academic source on the subject: Some quite interesting stuff about the radicalisation of the Bedouin; hopefully I'll get around to adding that to other articles soon.  пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  14:19, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Some good stuff in there, but I am puzzled by the following:
 * "He writes that only 18% of the total Arab population in Israel voted in 1999 and of these, 20% cast a blank ballot. In Israel at the Polls 2003, it is noted that Arab voting participation dropped from 70% of registered voters during the 1999 elections to 62% in 2003,"
 * The first statement is clearly incorrect; even accounting for the high proprotion of Arabs under 18, there is a clear difference between 18% and 70%. The academic paper above gives a total Arab vote of 339,164 in 1999 when the total population was around a million (i.e. 33.9% of the total population).
 * The question is, should we quote claims if they are quite clearly wrong? пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  14:48, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I decided to replace it with the acadmic text which does note a drop in turnout as a %. Also, I've added Arabic text and interwiki on Ka'ak, which you might want to check for accuracy (I noticed that the article I've interwikied interwikies back to Cake!).  пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  15:18, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Re: RfC
While I appreciate your concern, responding to a canvassed vote does not constitute a breach of policy, and does not discount my vote. I have actually responded to Michael's request before you sent me a message. Cheers, Ynhockey (Talk) 08:22, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Impasse
As I said Tiamut, I think we should just get back to discussing the issues. Unfortunately, Michael's misuse of an RFC to canvas his buddies has almost ensured that no further progress is made on this issue for at least a couple more weeks, so I'm feeling rather pessimistic about the whole thing right now.

I guess you could haul Michael before AE to try and get a temporary page ban for holding up development by tendentious misinterpretation of sources and misuse of the RFC process, but there's no guarantee of success and such actions always run the risk of further antagonizing one's opponents. So it's up to you I guess. Personally, I just feel like absenting myself from the entire debate until the almost inevitable new round of recriminations that this RFC has probably initiated subsides. Gatoclass (talk) 13:58, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

West Bank and Jordan, mandate era
Hi, Tiamut. Glad to see your tireless and substantial positive contributions to the encyclopedia. But actually Canadian Monkey's version is more accurate. There was just one legal mandate, with two regions administered differently under its authority. The sensible thing to do is to avoid this very confusing issue here and elsewhere as much as one can, and treat it in specific articles on it. Zero0000, Ian Pitchford, (who don't seem to be around any more), and I (who was away until just now) did a good amount of research and explanation to clear this up a while ago in the British Mandate article talk pages and archives. One point is that the borders were not decided at all at San Remo (cf article here) The provisional border of the very early mandate 20-21 was the Jordan river. Transjordan was then added (not split off) and the charter changed at Cairo, March 1921, not 1922 (the Churchill White Paper). Lustick and Pappe are not the right sources to use, and are misleading. Amusingly, it was Weizmann who wanted Transjordan for Jewish settlement. Jabotinsky didn't really care and persuaded Weizmann it was unnecessary and not worth pressing for, and both approved the restriction from settlement there. Then Jabotinsky and his Revisionists made up a story about how they were robbed of it by perfidious Albion, and since then the literature on it has become very confusing - and it wasn't too clear who claimed what to start with.John Z (talk) 07:40, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Ka'ak
Marhaba Tiamut, I just wanted to drop by and congratulate you on the work you did in ka'ak; The history on ka'ak al-asfar was very interesting! Because of this, I was hoping that when you have time, could you add some of that info to the Palestinian cuisine article. It passed its GA review but even besides history it needs some more expansion on the traditional aspects of some foods. I go to northern Palestine every summer to visit my family but I never ask of the historical background of the delicious foods and desserts served (I just eat it with a smile). This summer I'll be sure to inquire some more knowledge on our cuisine. Cheers and Salaam! --Al Ameer son (talk) 15:22, 15 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know if you heard of Burbarah and Hilbieh, its a wheat treat for St. Barbara's feast. I saw it here Its at the bottom of the page. I don't know if its useful to you, just putting it out.


 * P.S. do have any idea about where Huldra's been? She hasn't edited since February 12. Do you know if she is on a wikibreak or if she has retired? --Al Ameer son (talk) 19:45, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

good
sorry that my message too late.yes we must do anything like you said,really what can we do form our site?.......about wikipedia there is nothing active here with me..can i do some thing useful,that mabye i want to leave the arabic wikipedia. --O.waqfi (talk) 15:10, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

article note
Hi. I just made you deputy head of the pro-Israel task force. :-) Just kidding, but in all seriousness, the only way to get things done is to have people who seem able like you to keep track of where things are, and which constructive versions can move things forward. where are we at Second Intifada? I acceopt most of your proposals. Can you please add a sentence regarding what "Israelis consider" the underlying designation to be, whether intifada, or something else? frankly, i don;'t follow the ins and outs of protracted arguments too much, as they are almost always unnecessary anyway. Resolution is almost always easy to reach. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 15:29, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Tiamut. I'm sorry, but my impression was that israelis and Palestinians have always had plenty of things to argue about. Why is this all suddenly coming up now? Sory to bother you but all this going around and around is making my head hurt. Oh, and that reminds me...do you have any aspirin? sorry but we're out over here. if you need some tea I can probably find some of that. thanks. see you. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 17:01, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

related note
I've responded both here by toning down possibly offensive language; and here, explaining that you've had your share in insensitive POV phrasing and that my text, was was a response to soapboxing and explanation of the other side's perspective. We can be more collaborative, but this includes sensitivity from both sides of the discussion to the Israeli and Palestinian loss of lives. With respect,  Jaakobou Chalk Talk  16:26, 17 March 2008 (UTC) p.s. please let me know if there's anything else that needs toning down.  Jaakobou Chalk Talk  16:26, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

These post-facto acts of contrition which invariably follow only after someone reports you to WP:AE or WP:ANI don't cut the butter for me this time. When a fellow editor (or editors) raise(s) concern(s) with you and you choose to be dismissive of them and issue apologies only after the issue is taken to the next steps in the dispute resolution process, it's a huge problem that wastes everybody's time. You've done this over and over again and I'm frankly tired of it. I hope that this time something is finally done so that you learn to take the concerns raised more seriously at the outset, or better yet, you learn to think about whether your comments are relevant to the production of a quality encyclopedia or not before pressing "save".  T i a m u t talk 19:00, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I retracted before you posted on AE.  Jaakobou Chalk Talk  19:13, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * It is true that you refactored this comment about ten minutes before I posted at WP:AE. But my comment still stands conidering that it took a week of multiple complaints by editors and admins, and a posting to WP:ANI and WP:AE before you actually issued a sincere apology for your mockery of my template. And I'm also talking about your lack of an apology or recognition of your bad behvaiour this time around, choosing instead to focus on my alleged soapboxing (please provide even one diff that supports that statement) and the behaviour of other editors, instead of your own.  T i a m u t talk 19:29, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Mediation Cabal/Cases/2008-03-18 Second Intifada

 * Regarding this case, I am reviewing it at the moment, however, the first step in a MedCab case is requesting confirmation from all parties. Would you mind listing the primary/secondary parties in this case, on the MedCab case page? All who played a large role in the discussion can be considered primary parties, those who played a minor role, considered secondary parties. Also, it seems to be a complex dispute, this would be one I would mediate along with another mediator, if I decided to take on the case. Please reply on my talk page, thanks. Steve Crossin (talk) 03:14, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, I'll review it soon. Right now, im on anti-vandal patrol. Sorry. Steve Crossin (talk) 03:47, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm still not quite sure as to who the parties involved are, could you double check the parties invloved, and post a message on my talk page? Thanks. Steve Crossin (talk) 12:44, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Just in case you didn't notice, I still reqire some sort of list of Primary & Secondary parties. After that, it would be time for opening statements. Steve Crossin (talk) 13:44, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

A flower for you
From the Flowers article: "Lilies are often used to denote life or resurrection"... therefore I give a lily to you...take care, Regards, Huldra (talk) 05:15, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi, and thanks for the note! I´m sorry, but I had never heard of Thursday of the Dead before; very interesting article, however, I´m afraid that just now I am not able to add to it.. I would love to know more. (I have just ordered Hanauer´s book "Folklore of the Holy Land", maybe there is something about it there.) The custom reminds me a bit of Day of the Dead, which is a very big event in Mexico; I don´t know if you have heard of it?

I will be on the look-out for more inf. to add. I am reading James Finn "Byeways.." book at the moment; and it is facinating. A lot about the different communities/customs in Jerusalem in the 1850s. (An example: he and his wife tried to help the poorest community; namely the Jews, by giving them an opportunity to work (and earn money) in the fields outside Jerusalem. The Jewish leaders (Rabbis) did not like this, as they thought that Jews in Jerusalem should *only* live of hand-outs (from them..)   ..so they (=the Jewish leaders) stationed people in the evening at the gates of the city, whipping(!) any Jew they managed to catch who came back from work! Incredible.) Anyway, take care, Huldra (talk) 10:36, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Etymology of almanac
You have made an edit to Almanac where you added that the word comes from Arabic manah (to reckon). But then the etymology section makes no sense - how can the word come from manah if its ultimate origin is Egyptian almenichiata? Then I looked at your source and saw it was written in 1855 (!). More recent etymological dictionaries (such as the popular Online Etymological Dictionary) don't mention manah, and assert that the word was a loan word into Arabic. Therefore, unless you can find a more recent source advocating manah (or a source rebuffing almenichiata), I request that you revert your edit.--Yolgnu (talk) 06:37, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree, both etymologies need to be mentioned. Does this suit you?--Yolgnu (talk) 06:19, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

March 2008
Thank you for making a report at Usernames for administrator attention. Unfortunately, your report has been removed due to no explanation of the violation being given. Please remember you should only post infringements on this page if they are so grave that the user needs to be blocked immediately. Others should be discussed with the user in question first, for example using the Uw-username template. A request for comment can be filed if the user disagrees that their name is against the username policy, or has continued to edit after you have expressed your concern. Thank you. Please give reasons for submissions to UAA, as noted in the instructions. SamBC(talk) 10:44, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Hello Tiamut. I would have thought that the name itself was explanation enough; but never mind, it has now been blocked. Can I suggest that, if this arises again, a better course of action would be to make a report to Administrator intervention against vandalism, noting that it is another suspected Runtshit sockpuppet. It will then be removed promptly; and, if you use Twinkle, you can do this with just a couple of clicks of your mouse.
 * You reverted some of these edits with the summary "disruptive rance sockpuppet". This has the unfortunate and surely unintended effect of suggesting that I am in some way responsible for these abuses, rather than once again the target. It is not in any way a sockpuppet of mine, but of the Runtshit vandal, who now has more than 400 abusive sockpuppets!Please don't add to my worries. Thank you, my friend RolandR (talk) 12:54, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

For Patience beyond the call of reason, in adversity

 * The calculations of geopolitics are not on your side, history will be. That is small, if any, consolation, since very few read it, these days, to gather from wiki editing practices, and fewer will in the future. You are a singular editor, and I often wish that the virtue all ethnographers now claim as of peculiar force among your people, sumud, were recognized as a distinctive contribution and testimony to what is, under the civilized veneer, a violent world. I once gave up, rather theatrically but with good reason, my intention to stay in here, given the shenanigens. I came back, and will stay, in good part because the palmary example of sumud you have long embodied here deserves to be honoured by imitation, and not betrayed by feckless exasperation. My very best wishes, and apologies if my sincerity embarrasses you.  Nishidani (talk) 15:07, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Thursday of the Dead
Cripes. Sounded like a rock band to me, even as a lapsed, or is that prelapsarian Catholic? I'll keep my eyes skinned for it from now on in, and examine the library. I have stuff that can fleshen out the Sumud article, but my files are in a mess, and spring planting in my four tiered gardens has taken up most of my time. If I am to help in here, I'd better try to get these files into some systematic order. Western attitudes to the Arabs generally merely transpose the old antisemitism onto another semitic people, and the Palestinians are now made to wear what the Jews put up with before. That many Israelis can be an accomplice to this inversion, indeed its driving force, is one of the great mysteries of history. The Jewish solution was redemption through intelligence. In their diaspora, especially, this is the path many Palestinians too have taken, and it shows. But to wait 2 millenia for the rest of mankind to 'pull its finger out' and wake up to the horror of 'politicide' cultural genocide, to borrow a phrase from the Dalai Lama for a similar situation, is too much even for sumud to withstand. p.s. CNN is the best evidence for Jean Baudrillard's thesis! (2) I seem to have lost the drop off line on your barnstar. The result is, anything posted under it is included in the badge of merit. Sorry for the messup. I'm too much a computer-dumb fogey to fix it myself. Best wishes again. Nishidani (talk) 18:17, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

WP:AE
Just wanted to leave a quick note to say that while many editors - myself included - have had run-ins with Jaakobou in the past, I thought he really overstepped the mark in the last few days, both on his user page and then on the Second Intifada talk page. I guess you know that's what I think from what I wrote at WP:AE, but I thought I'd do it a bit more personally, as none of what happened can have been that pleasant, to say the least. --Nickhh (talk) 20:01, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Yasser Arafat
Hello. I am currently translating the article Yasser Arafat to Norwegian, and that involves some proofreading of the English article as well. This is what I have done thus far. I understand that you contributed to the article, and that there is some confusion regarding the date of the bus attack in this chapter, second section. As you can see, the incidents are listed in "non-chronological" order. Another source states that this incident occured on March 13, 1975. Could you please double-check your source on this one? Quote:

"In February 1975, the Tigers assassinated the pro-Palestinian politician Ma'arouf Sa'ad. In April 1974, Phalangist forces killed twenty-seven Palestinians and Lebanese travelling on bus from Sabra and Shatila to the Tel al-Zaatar refugee camp."

Cheers from Norway, JohnnyGoodfella (talk) 23:25, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your kind and unravelling reply. Best regards, JohnnyGoodfella (talk) 13:32, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi Tiamut
Sorry to have gone AWOL on I-P pages. I'm taking a short (I do mean short!) break from it to work on some other things close to my heart. This is restoring my energy and giving me some time to reflect on how best to use it. I continue to watch the pages and am impressed as always by the quality and rigor of your work.
 * Ah, Sumud. That's what it's called.  But with panache.--G-Dett (talk) 13:12, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Flowers and boquets
Based on the single flower at the top of the page, I nominate many more, for the whole bouquet you deserve. Regards, CasualObserver&#39;48 (talk) 13:44, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

article note
I would like to express my thanks, as I have before, at your continued fairness, and at your helpfulness in approaching many issues related to Wikipedia. Also, i realized that some of the recent processes are kind of stressful emotionally. I'm sorry if these have been stressful for you at all. i have found your approach in almost all respects to be extremely fair and always helpful. thanks. I have also found it really helpful to have your insight on how to approach a lot of ongoing issues here. i didn't realize this was becoming so tiring or stressful for you, and I'm sorry if it was. I really hope you will continue all your great efforts and input here. please do stay in touch when you can. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 14:00, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

For exceptional work, and exemplary conduct
Delayed, partly because of my wee trip to a very rainy Dublin, to learn more about IronDuke's favourite young lady, but here is a well-deserved:

Hope, after all
Hi Tiamut; your keen comment was right on target; and I must say that it was also moving. Seeing that you were considerate, and do possess sensitivity to other people's feelings; I will reciprocate and say something which I never thought that I'd ever do; and that is, that I do apologize if I ever hurt you.

I must say that while I did occasionally get frustrated by some of your edits; never ever did I feel hurt by them. Knowing that you are very intelligent; I couldn't understand why you would be fighting me, on something you know I'm right; leaving me with the only possible explanation; to assume that you are working for Palestinian interests. Sometimes I thought that you are officially working for the Palestinian Authority, because of how much time you had available on your hands (sometimes 24 hours a day); and because when I sensed that I had cornered you, and it took you two days to respond; I felt that you had gotten professional advice on how to wiggle free.

You are well aware that as far as beliefs go, we agree on almost nothing, even on the basics; so it is quite understandable that we should fight it out; only that it should be done with class. It's very sad that Steve; who I suspect agrees with me on most issues; still I do not think that I have gotten through to him, and remains the only editor who makes my blood boil; usually when he acts as a spoiler, trying to butter you up at the expense of your opponents. I once thought it possible to neutralize Wikipedia; but with him constantly deciding when it's worth fighting, whom it's worth fighting; and more importantly; for what it's worth fighting; such an approach greatly hampers any progress, leaving no choice but either to burn many hours which unfortunately I do not have, or else quit. That should explain my taking him to task and reading him the Riot Act.

While on the subject; I will also say that the editor I respect the most, who is active on these pages is GHcool; who true to his name, plays it very cool; and if I could change my temperament, I would try to imitate him. But I'm sad to say; that even he is locked in a meaningless mediation with an opponent who it seems is incapable to compromise. If he fails, it will prove even to those not yet convinced, that Wikipedia is doomed, and will never be a neutral Encyclopedia.

I don't know, why I'm telling you all this; but you were the one to finally see things as they are; so I thought that maybe, oh maybe, a new era here is possible, and is at least worth a try.

I'm ready to turn over a new leaf with you, and start from a clean slate, with mutual respect; although at this point I'm not sure what it will achieve, as I'm not that active here anymore. I wish you good luck. Itzse (talk) 20:01, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind words
I have been pondering your question about identity for several weeks now, and have come to the following conclusions: I have many identities, some of which were imposed upon me by birth, some from circumstances beyond my control, some came as extra baggage attached to choices I have made, and some which were free choices. I feel a strong identity with Israel and Jerusalem that comes from my family history and from my choice to be an Orthodox Jew. I am an Anti-Zionist stemming from their willingness to choose Uganda as a homeland for the Jewish people. (picture Idi Amin Dada as the prime minister of Israel) I have numerous identities that come from my personal history and from my job choices. I also have identities that come with my relationship to the ones I love: my wife and daughter. I have a love for Jerusalem that trandescends many of my other identies. When the Six Day War was over and they took down the rolls of barbed wire that had separated the two sides, immediately Palestinians and Israelies were visiting each other. By the next day, even though the war was still going on, Jews and Arabs were shopping as if there had never been a separation between them. They understood that there is a timeless history among fellow Jerusalemites whether Israeli or Palestinian. Does this create an identity? Of course. As a Jerusalemite, I feel an identity with both Israelis and Palestinians. Is the land arond Jenin any less holy then the land around Tel Aviv? of course not. Sometimes circumstances try to force me to choose between my Palestinian and Israeli identities, but so far I have been able to avoid making a choice. Now I have to decide. Should I join both the Israel and Palesine sections, or should I avoid both of them? For right now I will avoid both of them, but I will be revisiting the decision often. Again, thanks for your kind words. Phil Burnstein (talk) 21:24, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Tiamut, May your hope for me become a blessing to us all. Much respect and thanks, Phil Burnstein (talk) 10:53, 20 March 2008 (UTC)