User talk:TigranTheGreat/Archive 1

Bagratuniner
Just wanted to bring this to your attention: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bagrationi Georgian fascists and chauvinists have been busy.--Eupator 19:47, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Interesting link I found
http://www.arak29.am/PDF_PPT/origins_2004.pdf

A very neutral summary of Armenian origins etc. by Thomas J. Smauelian with tons of references, all of Western origin.--Eupator 19:53, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for the link, Eupator. --TigranTheGreat 09:53, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Armenia
Hey, thanks. Anytime. --Khoikhoi 02:15, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Hallo Tigranes Magnus, I have made the change to plural because AFAIK to equate the Mount Ararat where the Ark "stranded" with the highest peak we nowadays call "the" Mount Ararat is a fairly recent and western phenomenon. AFAIK there are other mountains further south that are traditionally considered the landing place by Kurds and Armenians. Str1977 17:49, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Nagorno-Karabakh
Francis, I just saw this. I don't know what is your relationship with armenians, but this page and your sympathetic conversation with them give me all the basis to be suspicious of your neutrality.

Secondly, I don't know what you have agains Turks. I can easily talk to you on all those matters. Turks and Kurdish are friendly nations, an capable of solving their problems. (Deleted false and offensive anti-Armenian comments - TigranTheGreat) Bests--Eagle of the Caucasus 20:02, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Francis, as a neutral administrator and a reasonable person, is friendly with anyone who is not being abusive, whether Armenian or Azeri. He is being more than fair with you, considering your constant use of personal attacks. You will not use my user page to post irrelevant and false information about Armenians. If you attempt again, I will take it as an act of vandalism on your part.--TigranTheGreat 01:18, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I've archived all the non-active subjects. Let me know if think any other section is dead and needs to be archived. I'd tend to leave rants in for a while then archive them if the person is obviously not going to come back. - FrancisTyers 20:10, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I would agree with deleting the comments, although it might be more accepted (by all concerned) if I did it as an impartial observer. You can imagine the cries of censorship if an Armenian was to do it to an Azeri or vice-versa. I'll be keeping an eye on the page, but I'm going away this weekend, if anything comes up you think needs deleting, contact me via my talk page and I'll get onto it asap. Btw, thanks for the confirmation of the translation for fuck the border, the Armenian guy I got to translate it said the same thing "I'd never write the real one down". Do you know how this came about, its kind of interesting, I don't think we have a similar taboo in English. I'm neither Kurdish nor Bulgarian nor French, I'm English :) I've been accused of being all those other nationalities though, largely as a result of working on articles relating to the Kurds. I get yelled at by Turks a lot!


 * I agree totally with your point regarding the main point of the Talk page is to discuss the article and get it so that there are none of those damned tags :) - FrancisTyers 09:57, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey man, thanks for your support, just to let you know, I'm a guy, not a girl ;) Franc[e,i]s is a unisex name so I have this problem sometimes. You can remember this rhyme "I for an [h]im, E for a [h]er" :) I've changed it on the page, hope you don't mind. - FrancisTyers 11:19, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Can you add back the Samuelian ref, it got lost somewhere along the way. - FrancisTyers 19:07, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, thanks, I couldn't find a reference to unholy alliance. For my purposes it is better if the archives aren't combined, I may move some of the current debate into Archive5 if it seems to die down though. In the meantime I think Fadix' suggestion is good, that we get on with writing the article and don't respond unless he has specific complaints. What do you think? - FrancisTyers 12:31, 28 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd prefer to not combine archive 4 and 5 as it would involve moving and deleting, which is a bit of a hassle. If you'd really prefer it be done, I'll do it tommorow :) Personally I'd prefer not to just arbitrarily remove his (or her) comments, even if they do contain some personal attacks - this could be construed as "taking sides" and I know he's already got me down as an Armenian, but in the interests of neutrality this is my prerogative. If they are getting in the way of the discussion the easiest thing to do would be to make a section for that kind of contribution. In fact I'll do that now. Let me know if you agree with the solution. - FrancisTyers 12:58, 28 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with in the future it will be best if we delete pure personal insults. I will do this, or let fadix do it. Heh, if you mean my recent discussions on the talk page, no I'm not going to lean the other way purely to seem neutral, my rationale for what I'm doing is explained on the page. I'm equally hard on both, and I won't abide crappy sources - especially when we don't need them :) I mean, come on The Eisenhower Institute??? :P - FrancisTyers 15:50, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Fuck the border
Basically the point of the phrase in English is like a slogan for the right to free movement. I think that denying people the right to travel based on the arbitrary location of their birth is one of the most insidious developments of the past couple of centuries. Check out the talk page for more discussion of how to translate it. Basically I'm looking for the most offensive (without getting attacked) and the most close to the original meaning. It doesn't necessarily have to use the word fuck, for example the German uses shit on and the Hebrew uses something like stick your cock in. The important thing is that the message would be very widely understood. Thanks for your time :) - FrancisTyers 22:33, 19 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Excellent, thanks :)) I think we're making good progress on the NK page, I hope you agree. PS. Feel free to check out some of the stubs I've made for NK regions, most of them are just copies from Armeniapedia (I got permission). They could do with some fleshing out :) - FrancisTyers 00:11, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Nakhichevan
Just wanted to ask if you could put it on your watchlist to keep an eye on it. Simple facts about the situation are being obscured and I can only rv so many times a day...  if not, no worries. --RaffiKojian 05:59, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Re:
Hello Tigran, I just wanted the page to be less cluttered and I didn't think the removed passages were important enough to be archived. Nevermind the block, according to wiki 3RR policy all parties in a revert war are to be blocked regardless of who is right. I will be concentrating on creating new articles. My next goal is to create Byzantine Armenians. I recently purchased a remarkable book by Peter Charanis - The Armenians in the Byzantine Empire which I will use for the article. My Artaxiad Dynasty page is still incomplete, Arshakuni page is essentially blank and so is the Orontid page. The main problems are with dates and names of Kings.

As for our Urartu discussion, the theories are still primarily a result of our current geo-political realities. The only reason I believe that Armenians within the USSR and the current Republic pay so much attention to Urartu is because of the current location of our state, what we are left with that is. If ROA was further to the North-West, we'd be talking about the Hayasa or Hittites etc. My opinion remains that the relationship of Urartians and Hurrians to Armenians is the same as that of the Greeks with Pelasgians/Minoans. Your arguments are good enough though to suggest an Armeno-Hurrian syncretic society in Urartu where Armenian speakers eventually became dominant via Scythian/Cimmerian and primarily Median invasions. What bothers me the most concerning our geo-political reality is that most Armenian nationalists and historians are forced to completely ignore and deny any connection whatsoever to the Phrygians and Greeks. Some people even refuse to acknowledge that Armenian could have been a Centum language and Satemized via contact with Iranic languages. I have spoken to people that even deny Iranian loanwords and say stuff like: "Well how do you know they didn't borrow it from us?" lol Anyway, I think the link that I gave you a while back treated all sides of this objectively.--Eupator 20:24, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Vote
Thanks Tigran,

However, I'm pretty busy right now with certain Pan-Turkish vandals, but I'll try to read the article sometime. --Khoikhoi 00:30, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Nakhijevan
The material was copy pasted from a web site and was poorly written. I really absolutely have no time to rewrite it. We can do it in the near future.--Eupator 18:20, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

About Eagle
I am pretty sure that he is EnverPasha and Talaatpasha, read his style it's the same, and the fact that he purpously place Armenians in non-capital letters (the three of them). As for the deletion, I don't think it is necessary, the guy may very well start spamming the place after that. Fad (ix) 17:16, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Armenian Genocide
Hi, please read through my edited version at: User:FrancisTyers/Armenian Genocide and also please read my notes on the talk page. :) - FrancisTyers 18:25, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

final para
Hi Tigran -- there's a bit of confusion as to whether you are OK with this ; I assumed you were, correct me if I'm wrong on that talk page. Sdedeo (tips) 20:34, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Poll
Hi Tigran,

Just wondering if you'd be able to vote in the poll at. Thanks. --Khoikhoi 23:42, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * this is my image. It has a picture of Orhan Pamuk. The Turkish editors don't like him because he talked about the Armenian Genocide. this is Inanna's image, which doesn't have Pamuk, but less-famous people like the singers and actresses on the right of the image. --Khoikhoi 23:53, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

back... for now
Still in Australia. Flew from Gold Coast to Perth (west coast). Luckily cousin has high speed internet at home here. Off to Sydney in 2 days, where I don't know what my internet situation will be for the next few weeks... --RaffiKojian 00:13, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Barev
I just wanted to say hello to a fellow Armenian. It's good to see more Armenians on Wiki, hopefully we can make the Armenia related articles better.

BTW: Were you born in Armenia?--Moosh88 03:03, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Hey, Moosh, nice to see you too. How did you discover me :)? I have seen you before on various Armenia related pages--months ago you presented a good argument in favor of including "Armenians descent from Urartuans," which unfortunately was not accepted by DBauchman. To me, alittle more diplomacy and quoting of official Wiki rules was needed. It's ok though, we will probably work on that in the future on the Armenian People article. There is an entire published school of thought that is not represented.

Yes I was born in our sacred homeland. You?

PS: I am glad you met earlier my buddy MarshalBaghramian. Me, him, and a few others have picked apart numerous instances of Turko-Azeri falsifications and propaganda on the IMDB message boards.--TigranTheGreat 03:15, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I saw some of your edits on Armenia related articles, then came to your user page and figured out that your Armenian. I've been trying to meet wiki members who are Armenian so that is another reason I left you a message. I too was born in our great nation, and visit quite often. I remember that edit to the article, I was angry about having to explain every little thing to someone who knew little to nothing concerning the topic. That's what is wrong with wiki, any idiot can edit an article.

Did you and Marshal join at the same time?

P.S. If you're interested I can give you the url to an Armenian forum full of patriotic members.

No, I joined in july, Marshal joined in December. But we had known each other before, and had been trashing Turkish falsifiers on the IMDB board for months.

Unfortunately, most people here don't know much about Armenia and its history, so I find it worthwhile to explain to them. Once I do, they usually listen. It's worthwhile to establish good relationships with administrators and other non-Armenians here. Khoikhoi is one example, he is Jewish, and admin, and reasonable when it comes to listening to good source info, and quick to reverting POV pushers (including many pan-Turks).

I did see that link you showed to Marshal regarding a forum of patriotic Armenians. I will take a look at it. You are welcome to visit the Ararat board on IMDB--me, Marshal, and others have been doing real killing with fanatic Turks and Azeris for over a year (it's kinda quite there now though.--TigranTheGreat 03:27, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

User page
Hey, no problem man. It's just that most people that have red user pages are vandals, and you've been a user long enough to have a red user page. --Khoikhoi 03:43, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Ethnic background
Sure, no problem. :) I was born in Nottingham QMC, I am nominally approx. 3/4 English (3 English grandparents) and 1/4 Irish (1 Irish grandparent). I have dual nationality. - FrancisTyers 05:16, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Ouf, I didn't see your reply there... To answer your questions:


 * 1) When you are a dual citizen, whom do you pay taxes--Ireland, or Britain?
 * When I'm in Ireland I pay Irish taxes, when I'm in the UK I pay UK taxes.
 * 1) And if you are drafted by, say, Britain, do you have to serve there, or you can just move to Ireland?
 * If I was drafted I would I imagine be able to move to Ireland although this would be draft dodging and I wouldn't be able to return to the UK.
 * 1) '''And can you vote in elections of both countries?'
 * Yes, although I don't vote for representatives on principle, although I have concerns about voting as a practice I do not feel as strongly when it comes to voting for policies etc. Although there are precious few referendums go on nowadays.

Regarding the conflict of interest, not really :) I'm very anti-nationalistic, I have two passports because I think the more passports one has the better. I'm 22 (23 later this year), you can be an admin at any age, I know of at least one 15 year old who is an admin. You just have to show that you are sufficiently responsible.

How about you, you said you're Estonian but you speak Armenian. Are you Armenian living in Estonian and which was your country of birth - do you intend to return to Armenia (if you are currently living in Estonia)? - FrancisTyers 21:06, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Haha, I wasn't going to ask, but sure as you offer, I guess its some kind of Armenian history in-joke? :) - FrancisTyers 02:01, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

I will check it
Right now, I don't have access to my Universalis, because it is a Windows CD and I am using a Linux distro.

...
I'm trying to keep up with the NK and Nakhichevan articles as much as I can while still working on missing Armenian related articles. I'm pretty exhausted after Tiridates I of Armenia, let me know what do you think.--Eupator 01:19, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Re: Tiridates
Thanks for the positive feedback. Of course it's Roman POV because other historical primary sources do not exist. There were no Armenian historians. There were no Parthian historians. Only Greco-Roman. The only way to reduce the Roman POV is via secondary sources, or someone like Edward Champlin who explains that Tiridates did not worship Nero. Well by accepting the crown from Nero, Armenia became a vassal of Rome, that is what's implied under client kingdom. Client=vassal. I also need feedback regarding the mess that is Orontid Dynasty.--Eupator 00:31, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

emailing me
To email me, log-in, and visit my userpage or talk page... then while you are there on the left side of the page, you will see hyperlinks under the title Toolbox, choose E-mail. You can write your message there and it will be forwarded to my email address. Regards. Fad (ix) 01:14, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Re: Thanks
Hey, no problem! I'll warn him/her next time they do something like that. --Khoikhoi 17:46, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Wikiproject: Armenia
Hakob and I, decided to make a Wikiproject for Armenia. We hope that you and other Armenian wikipedia editors, will take the time to expand Armenian related articles and create new articles on topics currently without one. Please feel free to share your thoughts on the project and have fun! Here is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Armenia --Moosh88 01:25, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Welcome back!
It seems you got off to a rough start, you might want have a look at this. Happy editing! :) &mdash; Khoikhoi 17:29, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * ...and this WP:3RR.--Eupator 17:42, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Barev Tigren, no problem! The part I wanted you to see was where it says one-revert rule&mdash;"if someone reverts your change, don't re-revert it, but discuss it with them." &mdash; Khoikhoi 05:33, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Votes? Hmm, could you enable your email? Just go to your preferences. Thanks. &mdash; Khoikhoi 05:26, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Re:
Շատ ճիշտ ժամանակին վերադարձար: Տեսել էս Կորյունի և Տիգրանի էջերում ի՞նչ էր կատարվում:--Eupator 18:51, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Patasxanetsi. Engerochs erexy achkaluysner, nor tun mta.

PS: Italatsu inqn ira xpats gol@ bayts vori er, Amerikatsineri chashvatsnel mikich txur er. Referiner@ lav hetevum eyin Italatsinerin...--Eupator 03:00, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Ays inch ankap baneree maseen ek xosum ay jahel yertasartner? Nice to have you back Tigs, do you still need to be coached on how the supply and demand curves work and as to why the producer is forced to lower his prices when he's not selling enough products!? I've had time on my spare bouts from classes to work on the Nagorno-Karabkh War article, I think that's going to be my pride and joy on Wikipedia; hopefully GA and then FA status ;) --MarshallBagramyan 06:46, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Lol. Yo, Marshal, thanks for the welcome. No, I still have no f-in' idea how supply and demand work. I still say just print money. I will take a look at the NK War page. Keep up the good work.

By the way, I saw you had discussion with Kagan The Barbarian. You know who he is? He is ghenghis_khan. lol. He vandalized my page the first day he logged on. Good thing Khoikhoi looked after my page.

Keep up the good work, my Armenian brethren.--TigranTheGreat 21:00, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I just finished my microeconomics class with a B+ but if you think the supply + demand stuff was easy, just wait till you hear how that was. And a big Lol on Kagan, no I didn't know that. But, get this, even our little friend Teevie is on Wikipedia now. He edited the ASALA page a few times but I haven't seen him contribute too much. I also get the feeling Akine is on the Armenian Genocide article. He brings up the same issues from the IMDB forum also. Take care dude.--MarshallBagramyan 05:00, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Question
Kağan said to me once that he's known one of the Armenian users here "for about a year". Any idea who it is? &mdash; Khoikhoi 05:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


 * BTW, Tombseye fixed the problems you mentioned. Please let him know if there are any others. &mdash; Khoikhoi 05:17, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey Khoikhoi. It was me. That's why he vandalized my page. I have known him attacking Armenians and making false statements about the Armenian Genocide on other forums, and I have debunked him every chance I got. Which is why he is moderately pissed at me.

I will look at Tom's edits, thanx.--TigranTheGreat 07:47, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Haha, what was his username on IMDB? I was looking at the fourms for a little bit. &mdash; Khoikhoi 18:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Genghiz_khan. He is a self-confessed homosexual from Izmir (not that I got anything against it, just giving a background). Here is his IMDB page: http://www.imdb.com/user/ur2672581/boards/profile/

His profile used to say the following, including his pic (I am quoting exactly. I have saved it. He has toned it down):
 * Turk, 23, Barbarian
 * Here is the idiot you've been dealing with:
 * http://photos1.blogger.com/img/147/1288/640/joker.jpg

Here are actual quotes from his profile (again, he has taken them out, after he got alot of heat from me and others).


 * "It is not sufficient that I succeed--all others must fail." - GENGHIS KHAN


 * "All who surrender will be spared; whoever does not surrender but opposed with struggle and dissension, shall be annihilated." - GENGHIS KHAN


 * "I am the Flail of God. If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon You." - GENGHIS KHAN

We used to have alot of fun at his expense. Still do.--TigranTheGreat 20:28, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


 * LOL, that's just hilarious. Yeah, I know he's from Izmir. If you ever want to see something interesting, read through all of this, it's actually quite funny. I never voted but I watched it the whole time, it really was a mess. &mdash; Khoikhoi 20:48, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Azeris et. al.
Hello Tigran. In addition to your previous objections, can you specify what else about the article shows POV problems? I wanted to fix everything asap and go on to something else. Say, I don't know how the Armenian editors would think about this, but I was also thinking of similarly fixing the Armenians page. I have a good track record with 2 featured articles (Iranian peoples and Pashtuns) and I believe Azeris is pretty close to making it given the attention it's gotten. I did have the support of the Azeri and Iranian editors when I did these articles so that makes a big difference as otherwise it's just a series of edit wars. I figured it wouldn't be fair for the Azeris page to so much more developed. Anyway, just wanted to put that out there. Let me know as to your further criticisms of Azeris though. Thanks and take care. Tombseye 21:30, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, I will remove the Urartians from the section. Not as important as mentioning the Caucasian Albanians anyway in terms of links to the Azeris. So, do you think there is a possibility for support now? :) Tombseye 09:40, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Problem fixed on Azeris. Changed the date to reflect accurate dates. Ciao. Tombseye 06:10, 24 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay added Strabo reference and changed date. I believe everything should be okay now. Thanks for the support! Tombseye 18:34, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Incivil language
You don't have to be an admin to warn (or better yet, ask politely) that someone take a more respectful tone. If, however, repeated warnings are ignored, then an admin may step in. As far as I can tell from Grandmaster's talk page, no one's brought this up with him yet. --InShaneee 22:15, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I understand. I will warn him in the future. Thank you.--TigranTheGreat 22:18, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Fadix
I'm sorry to see Fadix left, but I don't think I'd be a replacement. I'll certainly continue my observations of the deniers, and I'll continue to report them as the opportunity arises. RFCs all round whenever I have enough ammunition; they're sure to be banned sooner or later. I'm happy to keep watching the article, and to prevent deniers vandalising it, but unlike Fadix, I am not an expert on the subject, and there's little prospect of me doing much to improve the article. Anyway, we'll see what happens. Best regards. Angus McLellan (Talk) 11:56, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Join WikiProject Armenia
I don't see your name on the participation list. I'm surprised that you haven't joined yet! -- Clevelander 12:40, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

One more thing regarding WikiProject Armenia
Which country do you live in specifically (I'm doing this so I can include a flag next to your name on the WikiProject Armenia participation list). -- Clevelander 00:06, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I Prefer to keep it private:) Considering that all of ours motherland is Armenia, you may put Armenia's flag.--TigranTheGreat 00:53, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi!
Hi Tigran! I see some of your contributions. Keep up the good work! I'll gladly help in your research...

Take care!

--Davo88 02:03, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Khoikhoi
Greetings from Khoikhoi??? what do you mean?

Sorry for making things more complicated but I want a truthful and realistic Article
I hope I have not made your lives more complicated. As an Azari I am saddened and disgusted by some of the spinn from other editors that are gaming the system and trying to warp reality. We are all here to edit and make the best articles we possibly can. I want meaningful discussion on the page and stimulation of all editors minds. I am working to solve the issue, but do not think it should be dictated by any individuals or any certain party. I have only voiced logical pointts and I have never been uncivil although I have been attacked more than once for voicing my concenr or legitmate points. Once again I hope I have not been unbearable to you or any other editors, Armenian or Azari alike. 69.196.164.190

That's ok. Just use cool language, if someone attacks you, warn them, if it doesn't work, report to an admin. And don't get confrontational with moderators--they got enough already dealing with quarrels and stuff.--TigranTheGreat 00:35, 5 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I am sorry, but I was never uncivil to GM, I merely warned him as I was suppose too. I did not like how the monitor said, do not fall for his bait GM. That was definitly an insult to me and ment I was up to no good. Aditionally his tone was rude, maybe unintentionally. Everyone must be civil, no acceptions. As for GM, he has some sort of vanditate against me; but I have not engaged him in any aggresive behaviour. That was why I did not apprecitate the accusation of fighting, becuase it takes two to fight. GM's behaviour might have been uncivil and aggresive, but mine was not. Thank you 69.196.164.190

If you feel unfairly accused, just ignore it. It's not the end of the world, and it helps relieve tension. If it gets repeated, then tell the person that you object.--TigranTheGreat 02:59, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your contributions
After giving all my best wishes, I assume you have a very extensive knowledge about the period. Could you tell me who the commander “Vardan” was? I mean, besides he is the leader of one of the battalions and ranked high in the ARF to be positioned as general stuff. I really thank you in your help about this matter. Thnks again.--OttomanReference 00:26, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, and same to you. What was his last name? There is no "Vardan" in the provisional government of Van. And noone under "commander Vardan" was widely known--so perhaps last name could help.--TigranTheGreat 00:39, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok, his name was "Sargis Mehrabyan," and he was commander of the Araratian volunteer unit. There were other volunteer units, so he wasn't commanding all. The Araratian unit was formed in 1915 and existed for a few months. --TigranTheGreat 00:48, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

This was before I read the last parag: ''I had the same problem. Aram was the activist side; and there should be a military side in that initial period. He fills that position. There is no other reference. I know he is not Andranik Toros Ozanian. I guess he was burried really deep in the history. Thanks.'' I will add that name in the page. Thanks again. --OttomanReference 00:55, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Van Armenians
Just out of curiosity, if the Van Armenians survived the genocide then does that mean there are still Armenians who live in or around Van today? -- Clevelander 01:30, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

No. What that means is that weren't deported or massacred. Their goal was to survive the annihilation of Armenians around and in Van by Jevdet Bey. They successfully kept Turks out for a month, while being heavily outnumbered (1500 Arm's vs. 15000+ Turks). Turks attacked and got defeated, until Russians arrived, and then Turks ran away. Armenians survived. When a year later Russians retreated (they were having problems with German front), Armenians left with them to Eastern Armenia (Russian Armenia). Unlike the rest of Turkish Armenia, they were spared due to taking up arms. That's why it's hailed as a major success by Armenians.--TigranTheGreat 07:36, 10 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah, I understand now. BTW, the reason why I included phrases like "ultimately unsuccessful" and "insurgency" in my introduction for Van Resistance is because I based it mostly off of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising article.  Admittedly, my greater point of interest in Armenian history is the Soviet and post-Soviet periods, although I know a lot about the genocide.  I knew that there was a defensive uprising at Van but I wasn't entirely aware of the details.  -- Clevelander 22:02, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Jevdet Bey
Who are these guys, besides their names? I'm sure you have more on Armenak Yekaryan and Jevdet Bey, and you will be adding to the story about their significance. Thanks the story is getting alive now.--OttomanReference 20:57, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

You don't know Jevdet Bey? He was a major figure in the eastern front, and he was related to Enver (son in law or brother in law, something like that). After getting defeated on the Russian front, he attacked the villages of Van. That's when Van Armenians decided to defend themselves. This guy is big. He is also featured in the movie "Ararat," which by the way is about the Van Resistance.

Aram Yerkaryan was the head of the military body defending the city. Aram Manukyan was in it as a consultant.--TigranTheGreat 22:19, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Re:Georgia (country)
Barev Tigran. My bad :) I just glanced through the discussion quickly and had no chance to visit wiki too frequently these days. I do appreciate your support. Thanks a lot, Kober 10:54, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Nagorno-Karabakh userbox
Hi Tigran! Userboxes which present a belief, and political userboxes in particular, are a really hot potato, and they are often deleted on sight, something which has previously caused a lot of consternation and uproar. A solution, favored by the German Wikipedia is to allow such userboxes in userspace only. I have therefore moved your box to User:TigranTheGreat/User Nagorno-Karabakh, and out of the template namespace, and updated the two pages it was linked to. Hope you are not too offended by this. Best wishes, Sjakkalle (Check!)  14:47, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

thanks
Thanks for the barnstar. Fad (ix) 15:27, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Մերսիներ
Thanks for the ego boost Tiko :) Cheers.--Eupator 19:16, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

NK
Hey man, have you finished with the timeline. i.e. does it include every event leading up to the creation of the NKAO that you find important? - FrancisTyers · 12:50, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Fadix and Grandmaster are happy. Just need your word :) - FrancisTyers · 19:47, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Yo, its 1:51am, I'm still awake trying to do stats. I'll keep an eye on the page. - FrancisTyers · 00:54, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Nah, I'm in Norwich. Well, take a look at Fleiss' kappa. If you think you can help me out, or give some interesting remarks, let me know. Btw, do you have MSN/ICQ/Yahoo/IRC or another messenging program? - FrancisTyers · 01:04, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

NK
Don't worry, I'm still there. There's just been way too much lately on that talk page for me to concentrate on, you all seem to be handling the timeline issue fine. I am a ghost, a fly on the wall. :) --Golbez 22:41, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Not Cool!
Hey! That was not cool to erase my kind message to Golbez!! Whats your problem man?! 12.73.120.160 03:09, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I have no idea who you are, and I did no such thing. Golbez did, because of uncivil edit on his talk page.--TigranTheGreat 12:05, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Please.
Stop replying to Tabib. Please. - FrancisTyers · 14:38, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Armenian Kingdom
Was it founded in 600 BC or 190 BC? According to Wikipedia's own Kingdom of Armenia article, it says 190 BC. -- Clevelander 02:28, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

It was 600 BC. The Armenian Kingdom article is misleading--DBachmann redirected, trying to make the article only about the period of the kingdom between 190 BC and 428 AD. Check out the History of Armenia article and History section of Armenia--it's 600. I myself corrected it a year ago, by including Strabo's quotes (actually you can find it in the talk archives of "Armenians").--TigranTheGreat 02:34, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Re: Syunik
I originally was going to state that it bordered the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic instead of specifying certain rayons but I knew that such a move would bring up objections from Azeri editors, so instead I listed the rayons and specified that they were under Armenian control. Saying that they are controlled by Armenian forces, now that I look at it though, is not totally necessary. Allow me to remove it so GM doesn't bring any objections to the table. Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be packing for my vacation. -- Clevelander 02:39, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Heh, I wish. No, I'm actually off to Washingston, D.C. -- Clevelander 03:01, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Tigran, please understand that by making the "negotiations" with GM I was trying to ensure that no major arguments erupt there over the Syunik article like those over Nakhichevan (which I was working to resolve). I was trying to contain a potential problem and I feel that if we continue to dispute the issue, matters will only get worse.  Grandmaster will continue to assert Azeri claims to the region in the article even more overtly than before if we continue to argue with him.  And what will that accomplish?  Nothing.  And things will only get worse.  This is just my take, though.


 * On the other hand, I believe that there is a difference between Syunik and Nakhichevan. For one, the latter is an autonomous region of Azerbaijan and the former is a solidified part of Armenia.  The deals regarding Nakhichevan's status also involved foreign powers (e.g. Turkey) while Syunik only involved Soviet (Russian) and pro-Bolshevik Armenian authorities (I suppose one could include Azerbaijan as well because of their claims to the region at the time).


 * In the end, though, I would like to see what FrancisTyers has to say and what he recommends when he returns. I say we wait until then.  The Syunik article is locked now, so we have plenty of time to do so.  -- Clevelander 11:25, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Please be aware of 3RR
Hello there TigranTheGreat, I know you are currently involved in the disputed page Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia. Please be aware that even though you have not violated WP:3RR, you have come very close. Even though you may not have violated it, it is always best to discuss changes before reverting, so as to avoid an edit war, such as the one that has now caused the page to be protected. -- Nataly a 14:31, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your polite and informative response. I'm glad to hear that you're working on discussion. -- Nataly a  00:57, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

article on Van
Hey, I tried to clean up the Van defense article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Van#Provisional_Government_and_Russian_Relief

wondering if you can help. Also, this turkish guy has added a trail of POV articles related to Armenian genocide. thanks User:Hetoum