User talk:TinkerBoop

August 2008
Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, your addition of one or more external links to the page Briar Rose (Band) has been reverted. Your edit here was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to remove unwanted links and spam from Wikipedia. The external link you added or changed is on my list of links to remove and probably shouldn't be included in Wikipedia. The external links I reverted were matching the following regex rule(s): rule: '\bmyspace\.com'. If the external link you inserted or changed was to a blog, forum, free web hosting service, or similar site, then please check the information on the external site thoroughly. Note that such sites should probably not be linked to if they contain information that is in violation of the creators copyright (see Linking to copyrighted works), or they are not written by a recognised, reliable source. Linking to sites that you are involved with is also strongly discouraged (see conflict of interest).

If you were trying to insert an external link that does comply with our policies and guidelines, then please accept my creator's apologies and feel free to undo the bot's revert. Please read Wikipedia's external links guideline for more information, and consult my list of frequently-reverted sites. For more information about me, see my FAQ page. Thanks! XLinkBot (talk) 13:01, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Briar Rose (Band)
A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Briar Rose (Band), suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached.  tomasz.  15:46, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Briar Rose (band) AfD
Hi. Thanks for a nice reply on my talk. You'll note that I changed my opinion in the AfD discussion. Much better on the reference listing. To Wikify them properly, you may want to note which statements support which assertions in the article body, and then cite them to Wikipedia spec. But don't worry about that this second, because...

There is a group of Wikipedians who specialize in helping to rescue verifiably notable articles proposed at AfD. I'm going to set the article up with them. (You can learn more at the Article Rescue Squad page if you wish.) -- Actually I did this already while writing this reply.

Speaking to a couple of points you replied to me with in the AfD discussion... What's being looked at in the AfD is whether there is independent reliable secondary sources which support the notion that the band itself is notable (according to both Notability and Music notability guidelines.  (Though you may know that already.)  I think my issue, in small part, was that with some of the references, the references were about some other issue - other than the band itself.  Even an article about a band member doesn't necessarily imply the notability of the band - though it can, depending on the article.

The best way the article can probably be shored up is to take some of those references, and apply them to the body text of the article. Again, WP:ARS should be able to help here.

As far as the sourcing goes, the only thing I was pointing out about the web profile mention was that it may not be considered a "reliable source" per reliable sources. Certainly such sources, if they support something claimed in the article may be helpful, and may be referenced. Such a reference may be considered an RS. But, generally, they are considered short of what's required to establish Notability, because they are essentially self-published sources.

At any rate, you are certainly working hard on the article. AfD's are hard, especially when you have invested a lot in creation/maintenance of an article. At this point, while AfD is not a vote, the consensus seems to be heading towards giving you more time to work on it. As a last ditch effort, I'll offer in the AfD to assist in Userfying the article. (Moving it to your userspace so you can work on / recreate it.)

I'm not going to copy this long discussion to my Talk page. Instead, I'll watch your page here for a reply from you to me. Good luck! Laughing Vulcan 23:42, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, take a look at the article in its current state. You'll notice that several of your references now appear as inline notes (numbered in the article text.)  And in the References section, they're all still listed when you look at the article!  How this is done:


 * Instead of just adding citations in the reference section, in the body of the text you use the markup tags: In between those tags you type out the reference, similar to (yet different from) the citation method you were using.
 * Try editing the article and looking at the areas where those numbers are when you read the article. You'll see the the full reference laid in right after the article text that it's backing, in between the ref tags.  (Now, I only used my best judgment - not having read the articles - as to where they'd go and what they'd back up.  You can cut and paste the whole area between the "ref" tags (including the tags themselves!) if they should be backing up something else.
 * The template you had in the references section automatically parses the article when someone loads it, finds all the ref tags and numbers them automatically, then generates whatever was between the ref tags down where the template is, coordinated with the number in the article.  It even links them!  It then processes the other citations as you listed them.
 * It sounds complicated, but it's really easy once you get to know how to do it. Just be sure to use both sets of tags!  (An open tag causes all kinds of heck - as I accidentally did as I was cleaning it.  It's easily fixable, but you have to know that the loss of article text is because you didn't close a reference tag.) ;)
 * For advanced usage, take a look at the Tsangarides reference in the article now. You'll see that it's a Wikified url hyperlink, with the reference piped in.  It took me awhile to learn how to do that, but you can replicate it using the same pattern in other references.

Anyway, that's the long and short of inline citations. More on how-to-do-it can be found at WP:CITE. Having sources like The Spectator actually citing something in the article goes a long way towards establishing that the notability of the band actually connects to the article itself, and makes smart editors looking at AfD noms. think twice. Anyway, hope that's enough. We can leave the rescue tag on it - it'll get handled when the AfD closes. And I'll keep an eye on it, in the unlikely event we need to Userfy it to your main user pages here. Good luck! Laughing Vulcan 00:02, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Glad it was kept. :)   Laughing Vulcan  00:48, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Spock did indeed laugh, in the episode This Side of Paradise. As did his half-brother Sybok in Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.  Open displays of emotion are generally frowned upon by Vulcans (as here,) except for certain renegades and Spock himself (regarded in some novels as something of a maverick.)  My username, however, comes more from a sense of the fusion of emotion and logic, as opposed to any specific character's name.  :)   Laughing Vulcan  00:01, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

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