User talk:Tkeeper27

Hi Tkeeper27, thank you for your feedback regarding the optometry page. I appreciate that you have a relevant credential and professional experience. I also have relevant credentials and experience, if you care (it seems you do). The article as written was indeed redundant and ignorant of the fact that there is a rich continuing education among professionals, as well as other eye health care practitioners -- for example, you allude to ophthalmologists who must complete 3-5 years of post-graduate medical education in an accredited program before entering practice. It sounds like you may not be aware of this since you are an optometrist, and not an ophthalmologist, along the lines of you making assumptions about the general public here.

If you meant only first professional degree, you are correct. That is not what it says. It is inaccurate and redundant as stated. I edited it without mentioning other eye care professionals so that it could accurately focus on optometrists. I will edit it back for accuracy and include a qualifier about the type of degree. If you feel you want to revert back, that is your prerogative, since this seems to be a sore topic for you, but I implore you to use accurate language without assumptions.

Best -- ProfessorPu

Hi, unless you are a Optometrist, you really have no business editing this page. This is an Optometry page. It is unnecessary to post about other programs - perhaps you should post about those programs on those pages. My language is 100% accurate. Optometrists have a doctorate degree in eye care - literally the title of the degree. Ophthalmologists do not have a degree in eye care, specifically - they have completed a residency program in eye care. Until residency programs grant degrees, my statement is true. There is no such thing as a Ophthalmology degree. Am I suggesting those completing a residency are not qualified? Of course not. I have the utmost respect for eye surgeons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tkeeper27 (talk • contribs) 18:58, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi Tkeeper27, I am trying to follow what you say above as a linear argument based in "facts", so here is my reply.

First, my original edits removed redundancy and unnecessary prose: the odd comment about degree specificity was (is, now that you keep spamming undo) mentioned more than once. There is no need to repeatedly state what has already been stated (e.g., "...Doctor of Optometry degree." third sentence). My original edits did not mention ophthalmology, but compromising to your feedback, the new edits provided terse clarity on the difference between eye health care professional training. Seems reasonable to me given your commentary/complaint.

So, second, you are inconsistent here: either you want people to know the difference between an O.D. and a board certified ophthalmologist, or you don't; you complained about the "general public" not knowing the difference. From my experience in the field you may have a point, but I also see a lot of people who do know the difference. I am more neutral on this, but that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of folks who confuse the two. If you have such a point to make here, why not take the opportunity to make the credentialing differences clearer in the article?

Third, you are correct if you say that an O.D. is a first-professional degree; to leave it at that is clear (see above), succinct language, hence the original edits removing redundancy. However, as currently stated these sentences are a form of weasel word editorialization.

Fourth, an O.D. is, like a residency, a professionally accredited credential -- these are necessary, but not sufficient to be a licensed, practicing professional in their respective practice settings. Both involve approved/certified curricula and training in the form of classes, seminars, clinical experience (obviously more of the latter in PGY), etc. If you meant graduation ceremonies and receipt of a paper certificate/diploma, then you should know both also provide these material endpoints. Therefore your perceived distinction is not totally correct, and seems rather superfluous and petty to me. One is a first-professional credential (O.D.), the other is a post-graduate credential (ophthalmology residency). Both are specific to eye healthcare. Thus the unnecessary, repeated statements about degree specificity add nothing to any perceived points about a credential. That point was made; again see the third sentence of the article.

Fifth, it is not your - or my - place to demand who "...[has] business editing [a] page." I encourage you to edify yourself about the mission and scope of this venue by reading the informative article about Wikipedia. I wonder about your actual experience in this field given your apparent lack of understanding of credentialing in different scopes of practice. That doesn't mean you cannot or should not edit the page, rather it is a call for you to use clearer language that avoids editorialization and redundancy. Since you seem to care about this a great deal and keep undoing clarity edits, I will leave the page alone for now, and I hope you will meet that call.

Sincerely ProfessorPu (talk) 02:55, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

Edit warring
Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing&mdash;especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring&mdash;even if you do not violate the three-revert rule&mdash;should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.


 * understood.