User talk:Tonkie

An Invite to join the Highways WikiProject
naveenpf (talk) 03:32, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Dead at the age of 27
Category:Dead at the age of 27, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:33, 23 July 2011 (UTC)


 * @Muboshgu - that discussion is closed, so I couldn't react there. Tonkie (talk) 17:20, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Reply to your questions on my talk page about the deletion of this category
Quiz question: what do the following people have in common? Answer? Absolutely nothing, apart from the trivial fact that they died aged 27. And that's a list thrown up by the first couple of pages of results from a very quick search of Wikipedia - there will be many more. Categories are not for random collections of people linked only by the most trivial of connections. "Dead at the age of 27" is a completely hopeless category, because Wikipedia does not categorise people by the age at which they died.
 * Princess Amelia of the United Kingdom, one of the daughters of King George III
 * Constantia Grierson, an 18th-century Irish classical scholar
 * Miroslav Kraljević, a Croatian sculptor and painter at the turn of the 20th century
 * Gerry Hazlitt, an Australian cricketer from the early 20th century
 * George Hastings, 8th Earl of Huntingdon, a soldier and nobleman born in the late 17th century
 * Josephine Wessely, a 19th-century Austrian actress
 * Ernest Sheepshanks, a journalist killed in the Spanish Civil War
 * Karl Michahelles, a 19th-century German zoologist
 * Amy Winehouse, a 21st-century singer

I closed the deletion discussion for the category (Categories for discussion/Log/2011 July 23) when I did for two reasons. Firstly, so many people had already called for the deletion of the category that there was as much of a chance of the discussion suddenly changing to a "keep (with or without a rename)" result as a snowball has of surviving unmelted in hell – a principle found in WP:SNOW, which allows for early closure of deletion discussions in such circumstances. Nobody else was advocating that the category be kept.

Secondly, this idea for a category (people who died aged xx) has been discussed in the past and the consensus each time has been to delete it. See the 2007 discussion and the 2010 discussion, just about the so-called "27 Club". Then read e.g. the deletion of the "Deaths by age" category structure (a decision to delete which was upheld at deletion review). Read all the arguments that led to deletion each time. Can you rebut them with proper justification based on the principles of categorisation on Wikipedia, such as WP:CAT, WP:OVERCAT? (Hint: you can't – "deaths by age" is given in WP:OC as a paradigm example of something that may be "interesting" but is not "encyclopaedic" and so doesn't merit a category.) Where something has been the subject of a full deletion discussion before, and the recreated page (be it article, template, category or whatever) is essentially the same and does not address the reasons that led to deletion, then a speedy deletion is permitted. See WP:CSD.

Creating / re-creating similar categories in an attempt to "force" yet another discussion that will inevitably lead to deletion, yet again, is likely to be viewed as disruptive. So please don't do that. Consensus has been established against you on the principle of this type of category, and indeed this particular category, on many times in the past, and nothing is going to change by repeating the discussions with the same non-arguments from the "keep" side.

Please note that none of this affects 27 Club at all. Those who are "members" of the club can have that mentioned in their article (either in the text, or perhaps as an entry in the "See also" section) and then those who read e.g. Winehouse's article and are interested in seeing who else is in the "club" can click through to the article. This is much better than a category.

I hope this answers your questions. I will not be reopening the discussion or undeleting the category. Regards, BencherliteTalk 10:15, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

@/Hi Bencherlite,

If I read your answers correctly you give 2 reasons for short-cutting the disussion period and I'd like to react on both:
 * (1) everyone that reacted was for deletion and no-one wanted to keep. That is as such a valid point but I think the period that people had to give their opinion was very short. I also think that there was an ongoing discussion that did go further then simple delete/don't delete. In the discussions going on I already acknowledged that the naming of the category was far from ideal as it suggests that we would also have categories as "dead at 26" or "dead at 44"
 * Another valid/official reason for speedy deletion is when an earlier nomination to delete this category resulted in a consensus to delete Criterium G4. Imho when an admin who decides to short-cut the discussion period and go for 'speedy deletion' he would need to inform the creator of the page and give reasons for speedy-deletion. And when G4 is used as reason there should be a reference/link to that earlier discussion.

As I said many times by now: I fully agree that we don't want a load of categories for people dying at a specific age and for the the NAME of this category should have been renamed to prevent misunderstanding. In stead of deleting the existing category and then create a new category under the new name The subject seems -for whatever reason- extremely controversial and by cresating yet another category with the same intended members and for the same reason made no sense either.

You mention that you don't want to reopen the discussion, and I don't really mind that and because of all the controvery around this relative simple subject I won't take the initiative to start a new category like "members of the 27 club" but don't be surprised if anyone else decides to do so and the discussion might start again. I don't think I really asked for a reopening, and if I did it was NOT because I think that my arguments would persuade the community to change the outcome to 'keep category' - I even agree with the deletion of the category under this name - but when you delete the page/category you create the chance for others to (re)create it: the person might not be aware of any controversy and just create the cat. in good faith. (and we assyme good faith)

Best regards, Tonkie (talk) 17:19, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

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 * @DPLBOT- yeah, missed that one: whould have been the Dublin Area Rapid Transport link. Tonkie (talk) 20:18, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

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 * Corrected, changed link to Orange (telecommunications). Tonkie (talk) 19:40, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Rijkman Groenink


A tag has been placed on Rijkman Groenink requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. DreamFieldArts (talk) 02:15, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Leap Card/LEAP card
Hi Tonkie,

Seen your flag of these two articles, and didn't know there was a duplication until this point. LEAP card seems like the one that needs merged under the name of Leap card, (not because I started the latter), because the actual name of the card is not capitalised (see the cards official website for confirmation). Also, LEAP card was formed more than a month after the Leap card page. --NorthernCounties (talk) 09:01, 2 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Further to my last message, I have copied the vast amount of information from the LEAP card page, onto the leap card page, including the picture you took. I'm just now not sure how a page is closed off. If you know how to, I'm sure noone will contest the edit. --NorthernCounties (talk) 14:59, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. as I wrote one of the 2 pages I'll make sure they are OK and info is correct + with sources. Tonkie (talk) 18:53, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of I3d.net
-processed- Article is deleted Tonkie (talk) 14:52, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

DFA
I saw your comments on the Talk page of DGG where you advise him to archive his page. As I don't know if you follow DGG's talk page I send you this. Maybe you can also send user DreamFieldArts some advice on best practices for archiving: he currently just deletes sections of his Talk page (and according to some peoples earlier (but now deleted) comments) he also edited/changed comments made by others with the excuse 'it's MY page'. Anyway: maybe you can give DFA also some tips (see a link to my comment regarding DFA directly below your Archive! entry on DGG's talk page. See also User talk:DreamFieldArts - [now deleted!]. &mdash; via e-mail.
 * Why on earth did you use e-mail for the above? I could not see anything even faintly "private meant" about it. I am more relaxed about DFA's actions than you and DGG seem to be but you can see my response on DFA's talk page. &mdash; RHaworth (talk · contribs) 19:35, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Why would email only be for things private? I don't know how often you look at your Talk page (and if you can as your PC tends to crash or hang when you open large pages), and with the email option you will see it even when you don't log in to Wiki.But if you think we can only use email for private or secret discussions I won't use it anymore.
 * And I have personally no problems with the deletion of parts of peoples Talk page - but on another Wiki (the Dutch language one) I nearly got blocked/banned for a week because I deleted completed discussions and as DFA seems to be under 'scrutiny' from some mods/admins I just told him that.
 * Then I saw your message to DGG telling which tool he should use for proper archiving pages, so I thought maybe you could tell DFA it as well: but there is no need for that anymore as my posting to DFA is deleted thus there is nothing to comment on. Tonkie (talk) 19:45, 17 March 2012 (UTC)


 * A glance at my contribs history might have told you that I am a Wikipedia addict. I check my e-mail about once a day. Messages on my user talk page are frequently noted and replied to within minutes. I said that big pages crash my tablet PC but I also have a standard Windows PC. But even on that, I have problems with big pages. See this edit - in the middle of the diff report you can see "diff=prev" being added. I did not do that - somehow my browser added it. You will only get problems if you try to edit an entire page - using section create and section edit should be OK. &mdash; RHaworth (talk · contribs) 21:26, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
 * @RH: Indeed when I wrote you I did suspect that it might in your case not be required to also use the mail-function, but it is more or less my 'standard behavior' to also send an email when I try to contact someone. This especially when I comment on someone on another place then his own talk page (eg when I react to someones comments on a subject-Talk page or the talk page of another and I want to make sure that person sees it; not everyone will come back to each (talk) page he has made a contribution to (neither will everyone 'follow' all the pages he edited). And over the time it became more a standard practice to -also- send an email for the 1st contact. And yes: if during the following discussion matters are discussed that might not be appropiated for general view (because it is sensitive, refers to personal things or just because it is not interesting at all for others to know I might continue to use email: but when using email on 1st contact it doesn't mean for me that it is per definition 'secret'.
 * In most cases however my email often justs contains a link to the actual comment I want to point the receiver to: why I haven't done this in your email I just don't know/can't remember. If I had done that you would probably never have asked the question why I used email. Again: I really can't remember why I put the actual 'content' in an email and not just a link to my comments on either your or someone elses Talk page - but sorry if I gave you the wrong impression for my reasons for doing so. Shall we end this discussion about this (imho it isn't that interesting). Cheers, Tonkie (talk) 18:12, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

M1000e enclosure
The removal of the colon(s) is more for multi-indented lists, where extra asterisks should be used instead of colons. Indenting that list is OK as far as any Manual of Style is concerned - the MOS doesn't really talk about whether a list shouldn't be indented at it's base level. I'll start leaving those lists alone. -Niceguyedc Go Huskies! 19:48, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Tonkie (talk) 20:15, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

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 * added links pointing to China Seas, The Skerries, Halifax, Long Beach and Tuskar Rock


 * Corrected all except China Seas as this one indeed refers to the disambiguation link.Tonkie (talk) 18:33, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Virtual Line Trunking


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Was never added to propose for deletion page and never got in touch with the person making the comments. Removed some of the tags that made no sense and asked for feedback on the Talk page of Virtual Line Trunking. Didn't receive any feedback though.

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Image deletions
re your inquiry from last week: your question and my answer indeed went into the archives; they can still be seen here: User talk:Future Perfect at Sunrise/Archive 28. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:44, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
 * thanks for your reply. It's clear now for me, although I'm not completely convinced of the 'obviously wrong' statement; but that is besides this discussion. For me the discussion is closed now and again thanks for the feedback. Tonkie (talk) 19:11, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

August 2013
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 * ! Name || Built || Sailing for FerriMaroc || Current/latest operator ||source

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A beer for you!

 * Hi Jobin. Me was on holiday so not reading/checking Wiki for over a week. Appreciate the beer - but what contribution you are talking about? Thanks, Tonkie (talk) 19:44, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Hey, Tonkie! This is what I was talking about. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.123.180 (talk) 07:40, 8 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Ah lovely, last time I checked this contribution counting page was not working and couldn't reach it's developer. (not sure if it was indeed THIS tool or a very similar one). Thanks anyway - you should also check Dell PowerConnect, Force10, Dell_Networking] or Dell_M1000e..... Tonkie (talk) 20:08, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

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 * Corrected all - one remains on Borealis as it does point to the Disambiguation option as required ! (was already there - didn't change it )--fixed. Tonkie (talk) 22:03, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

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