User talk:Torchiest/Archive 13

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Please comment on Talk:Astroturfing
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God of War FAC
Do you have any other concerns for the article that you think would prevent its promotion? -- JDC808  ♫  20:57, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Heh, probably. I'm still working myself up to giving a full review of it. Should have a chance this weekend to get more in-depth. —Torchiest talkedits 21:01, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

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Witch house
Hi, I reverted the move. There are two other topics to disambiguate against - Witch House and The Witch House. I disagree strongly that amongst them this blog hype construct is the primary topic. At the very least Witch house should be a disambiguation page. - filelake shoe &#xF0F6;  20:20, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You're right; I didn't think to check with a capital "H". I was just in the process of converting Witch house to a disambiguation page, as I found another one after I saw your undo: Witch House (Acid Witch EP). —Torchiest talkedits 20:24, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

C&C
Looks like all that's left is the Gameplay section, and we'll finally be able to call it a day. You going to be okay working on it solo? Like I said, I've never played the game—if I worked on the Gameplay section, I'd have to go on the material from the reviews and so forth. Sometimes that works (I just did it on Jane's Attack Squadron), but, other times, it means that important stuff gets left out. I'm not even sure what should be in the screenshot. If you need a hand, though, I can try to pull something together. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 04:46, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I think I'll try to give it a thorough once over, reorganize and rewrite it to cover all the essentials, then we can both dig for sources to support as much of the rewrite as possible. —Torchiest talkedits 13:42, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:42, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

More Dragonlance characters
Thank you for your contributions to finding sources for Goldmoon and Raistlin Majere. If you are inclined to helping further on related articles, I have started a new discussion regarding finding sources for the other important characters in the series. If there is any help you can give, please respond there or here. Thanks! :) BOZ (talk) 17:56, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * A Forgotten Realms guy eh? Back in the second edition AD&D days that was my favorite campaign setting for a good long while. I wasn't too fond of what they did with third edition FR, and fourth edition FR was dead to me as far as I'm concerned. ;)  If you ever want to make a FR character project, you could try getting something like Elminster to look more like Drizzt Do'Urden. :) BOZ (talk) 05:10, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Whew, yeah, he needs some work. When I was a kid, we played a ton of basic D&D, and 2nd edition AD&D was like a coming of age event.  All the new campaign settings were so cool.  The only 3rd edition I've ever played was Neverwinter Nights, heh.  Never touched 4th, since I'm not a WOW fan.  But I suppose I could put Elminster on my long list and keep an eye out for sources. —Torchiest talkedits 11:19, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

I restored Caramon Majere, if you want to have a go at adding your source(s). :) BOZ (talk) 03:03, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I'll take a stab at working that source in tomorrow. It's more about Raistlin, but there is a lot about Caramon's protective behavior and such. —Torchiest talkedits 05:47, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * That sounds good. :) BOZ (talk) 17:31, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Good work on Caramon - I'm going to try looking for articles from Dragon like I did with Raistlin and Goldmoon; it doesn't help with notability, but it can help with just building the article at least. :) BOZ (talk) 15:43, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * There's probably a little more I can get from that source. The main issue is, ironically, that the article isn't as massively detailed as Raistlin's, so there was no easy pre-existing spot to just insert a reference. —Torchiest</B> talk<sub style="margin-left:-3ex;">edits 15:48, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Is there anything I can do to make it easier to figure out where to place the info? BOZ (talk) 16:36, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, the source mostly discusses their relationship and the concept of twins in fantasy. You can read the chapter here.  It's pages 28–30 in section 2.3.1. "Twins – A Divine Sign". Raistlin already had some text about their relationship, whereas Caramon doesn't have as much detail. —<B>Torchiest</B> talk<sub style="margin-left:-3ex;">edits 16:43, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Neat, there's some good stuff in there. It looks like there is also some good stuff for Paladine and Takhisis (and others) under the gods section.  I see some other stuff in there that might be good for some other characters too, right before the twins section.  I only have the tiny bit from page 28 to look at.  Maybe start a small "character profile" section right above the "early life" as in the Raistlin article, or if you want to be more specific, then a "relationship to Raistlin" section even? BOZ (talk) 16:53, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ha, I hadn't even noticed the rest of that stuff, I've been so focused on the one little chapter! The character profile section sounds good. —<B>Torchiest</B> talk<sub style="margin-left:-3ex;">edits 16:56, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I started a stubby little section, using some text I copied from Raistlin. :) BOZ (talk) 17:19, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Added a bit from Dragon - not much, but I guess any little bit helps improve the article. :) BOZ (talk) 13:24, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Did you have more to add to Caramon? BOZ (talk) 16:24, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, it's been a hectic few days. I'll take another look at that book in a little bit. —<B>Torchiest</B> talk<sub style="margin-left:-3ex;">edits 16:25, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks - that demonstrates that the source is more than just a brief mention. I understand about the hectic. :) I wanted to finish up with him before working on other characters; I have a few that I will restore momentarily because some sources were found. BOZ (talk) 19:45, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

OK – I have restored Tasslehoff Burrfoot, Tanis Half-Elven, Riverwind, and Kitiara uth Matar, as another user has found sources for each of them; if you can, take a look and see if you can find more. BOZ (talk) 20:41, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Not sure if you already checked too, but Tasslehoff was the only one of those discussed in the Nadine Wolf book. —<B>Torchiest</B> talk<sub style="margin-left:-3ex;">edits 15:19, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for getting that one - I mentioned above that Paladine and Takhisis did have some info in there, and although I don't remember I wouldn't be surprised if you could get some stuff for Lord Soth as well. BOZ (talk) 01:55, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know if you have any more sources for those articles I restored, but if you do now would be a good time to add them because I will probably be starting another merge discussion on the list talk page soon. BOZ (talk) 23:45, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Template:Opentask-short
Hey, I know it looks broken on the template directly, but if you look at it when transcluded in to Special:GettingStarted, it actually ended up fine. Not sure what is going on, but just thought I'd let you know. Thanks for helping out, <span style="font-family:Georgia, serif;">Steven Walling (WMF) &bull; talk   20:16, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Oops, sorry about that! I didn't consider the transclusion aspect. —<B>Torchiest</B> talk<sub style="margin-left:-3ex;">edits 20:19, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Thoughts re "abstract"
With abstract strategy game wlink'd as strategy board game, and "Abstract strategy game" as genre link in a game's Infobox, I'm wondering if word "abstract" is really necessary or desirable in lead sentence on games articles. (Reason: for general readership, it may be read as a geeky term that instantly connotes "difficult to learn or play", even though that is not what it means of course. I'm guessing that connotation is possible due to existence of term "abstract math", which isn't for everyone of course, unlike games.) What are your thoughts. Ihardlythinkso (talk) 20:56, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi there. I was a little conflicted about changing that link, but I went ahead and did it because I was concerned about the link being a bit of an WP:EASTEREGG.  If you'd rather leave it as it was though, I don't have a strong objection. —<B>Torchiest</B> talk<sub style="margin-left:-3ex;">edits 21:08, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm conflicted myself, as u an see here. (I got no response on that board, is why I thought to write for your thoughts.) I read the stuff on easter egg, and the examples there are all about rather blatant hiding of meaning, and what I've proposed is just hiding word "abstract" because of its potential turn-off connotation to most readers, but, the word is meaningful, e.g. to differentiate between other category games where there is also strategy. (I think further, that I wouldn't hide word "abstract" in the lead if it didn't show in the associated Infobox.) I dunno. It seems to me there s/ be consistency across all the members of the category (and, that's a lot of games/articles!). Ihardlythinkso (talk) 21:40, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually, looking at your comments there, I'd tend to favor including abstract, because if someone is interested enough to want to read the article, I'd think they'd want to know the specific term, don't you? With regard to sounding too "geeky", I'd take the same view with chess, for example.  Is someone interested in reading an encyclopedia article about chess going to blow it off because it's abstract?  I'd guess they're already sold on the concept to take that step in the first place. :) —<B>Torchiest</B> talk<sub style="margin-left:-3ex;">edits 05:46, 17 December 2012 (UTC)


 * If someone is interested enough to read the article, then yes. But how many readers might be checking out an article out of curiosity, where they don't know anything about the game in question, and then decide not to read further because of being turned off coming right away across word "abstract" in opening sentence? My angle for my suggestion wasn't for articles on int'l chess, but mostly other abstract strategy games or variants not so well known (I agree chess is already so world-known re its geek element or not, in people's opinions already, that it wouldn't be a concern; again, I was thinking for other games or variants besides int'l chess). Ok, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 06:33, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Austrian School
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Greenification at FAC
Hi, Torchiest; I've noticed you frequently use a template at FAC that produces green text. Because of the way FACs are transcluded in archives, templates get double- or triple-counted and cause errors per Template limits in the archives (basically, the end of the archive gets wiped out when limits are exceeded). That's why templates are discouraged in the WP:FAC instructions; would you be able to find a different way of commenting at FAC? Thanks in advance, Sandy Georgia (Talk) 05:24, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Heh, that's the first time I've tried that. Because of the extensive quoting I was doing, it was getting a bit confusing, and I knew about the template thing, but for some reason thought that one was okay because it was used in my current FAC by someone else. I'll remove it. —<B>Torchiest</B> talk<sub style="margin-left:-3ex;">edits 05:36, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * What tends to happen over time as people forget about the template limits problem is that one person does it, and pretty soon everyone is doing it ... and then we'll have the problem again :)  Thanks for understanding, Best, Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 05:39, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Malkut
The last text was


 * 1) REDIRECT Malkuth

I took this at face value, so I certainly have no objection to the recreation as a redirect. You might want to have a look at the history when you have done so, there may be an argument about the spelling, but I know nothing about the topic, just housekeeping <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:42, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Re: Wikiproject Industrial
Hello! I am impressed with what WP:INDU has become. I could not have asked for a more credible person to take control of it. I wish I was more devoted! Thanks for the hard work. You are awesome. Pmcginty (talk) 10:13, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 18
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Greetings!
<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:blue; background-color:AliceBlue; border-width:1px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">  Gareth Griffith-Jones  – The Welsh  Buzzard  – is wishing you the season's greetings. Whether you celebrate your hemisphere's solstice or Christmas, Diwali, Hogmanay, Hanukkah, Lenaia, Festivus, or the Saturnalia, this is a special time of year for (almost) everyone.

Thanks for the suggestions! I mostly do Christmas, but perhaps I'll mix and match some other stuff this year. —<B>Torchiest</B> talk<sub style="margin-left:-3ex;">edits 02:44, 21 December 2012 (UTC) –&#32; Gareth Griffith-Jones &#124; The Welsh Buzzard &#124; 02:58, 21 December 2012 (UTC) –&#32; Gareth Griffith-Jones &#124; The Welsh Buzzard &#124; 14:51, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ha, ha! Christmas is more than enough for me too. I hope you enjoy the holiday –&#32;
 * Many thanks for your greeting this afternoon and your considerable help this year –&#32;

Merry Christmas!
<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:red; background-color:fff; border-width:2px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">

— ΛΧΣ  21  is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message. — ΛΧΣ  21  05:50, 21 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks! My talk page is getting rather festive. —<B>Torchiest</B> talk<sub style="margin-left:-3ex;">edits 14:01, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Advice?
I seem to be pretty much the only mod that ever works on the Doctor Steel page, besides the few dozen other Steampunk-related articles I moderate. Lately, I've been thinking of calving off the "Army of Toy Soldiers" section onto its own page (I'm working on it in a sandbox now), since since Dr. Steel's retirement, they've been becoming less of a fan page and more of an online community (among other things), but not quite sure how to go about it (i.e. how much to leave on the original page, how to go about linking to the new page, etc.). Advice would be useful. Thanks. --Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 09:48, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You might be able to get away with leaving the intro paragraph that is there already, then writing one or two more summary paragraphs for the rest of the stuff you're pulling. Then use  at the top of the section. —<B>Torchiest</B> talk<sub style="margin-left:-3ex;">edits 14:00, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks; I did as you suggested. Hopefully I did it all right. --Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 20:06, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:BP
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Merry Christmas!
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BOZ (talk) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Don't eat yellow snow!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding to their talk page with a friendly message.

Re:Happy Festivus
The same to you, and I look forward to seeing new articles out of you in the new year! Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 17:28, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Merry Xmas
Hahaha, it was almost 80ºF here in Texas yesterday, so I'm celebrating with you in spirit. —<B>Torchiest</B> talk<sub style="margin-left:-3ex;">edits 10:44, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

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Happy Holidays
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Jonnybgoode44 (talk) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

I'm not good at all the fancy Wikistuff but wanted to return your holiday greeting. :) --Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 11:17, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that! :)—<B>Torchiest</B> talk<sub style="margin-left:-3ex;">edits 15:23, 25 December 2012 (UTC)