User talk:Torsodog/Archive 4

Cloud Gate
I found three books this week and added content. You may want to proofread all my additions.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 15:55, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * When you use newsbank, you must use the permalink at the bottom. Do not just copy the URL.  You need to fix that link.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 14:18, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Make sure that on the original at commons you note that there is an alternate cropped and retouched version.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 14:34, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I would put it in the first section on the right next to Although Kapoor does not...--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 14:37, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Make sure to use the WP:ALT, which is a new standard for featured articles.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 14:39, 10 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Congatulations on this (finally) making FA! Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 14:50, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Why isn't Cloud Gate on your mantle?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 23:11, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hah, I forgot! I updated it now though. Thanks for reminding me! -- T orsodo g Talk 23:38, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Crown Fountain
mentioned on my talk page that we might want to try to add a video to Crown Fountain since "Billie Jean" has a fair use one. Is this something you might be able to produce?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 21:39, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * video sounds good. What is the link for the panorama?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 23:10, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you following along at Peer review/Crown Fountain/archive2‎? I may have forgotten to mention it to you.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 21:06, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Any progress on the video.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 03:36, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the delay. I don't get into the city until 6 because of work, and by then the sun is low and no one is really in the fountain. I'm going to go in the afternoon tomorrow and grab the shot. -- T orsodo g Talk 21:38, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I want to make another FAC nomination by the end of the day (UTC). If you are going to have the video ready, I will go with Crown Fountain. Otherwise, I will go with McDonald's Cycle Center.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 06:58, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I have the video. I should be able to cut and edit it quickly tonight after work and have it uploaded. Give me til 8 before you give up on it! -- T orsodo g Talk 20:20, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 20:46, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Unless I hear from you or see some edits, I will nom McDs CC tonight.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 00:04, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought I had Crown Fountain on my watchlist, but I didn't and you did not say anything. I did not notice the video and nominated McD's.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:18, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

←Watch Featured article candidates/Crown Fountain/archive4--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 02:13, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 * We just got three issues from the image review.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 00:35, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I have requested licensing consent for this image, but have not gotten a response. We are going to need to swap out an image to get image approval.  Do you want to shoot the dualism shot or go with any of the other ten or so I posted on the talk page?  If you prefer flickr images give me your top 4 and I will send them flickrmail correspondences.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 15:02, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I got the consent. Now two of the three image issues are resolved.  We just need you to clip the video.  If I don't hear back from you, I will ask at the help desk if there is someone who can clip it because this FAC is getting long in the tooth.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 00:18, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I have posted a help request at Help_desk.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 16:01, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * They gave me a website with instructions, but I would much rather someone who knows what they are doing do it. If worse comes to worse, I will try to do it myself on Friday or Saturday, but I hope you can do this.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:53, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I am having problems with the instructions. Would you mind if I reuploaded the images and removed the video altogether since no one seems to know how to edit it.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:03, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * , has him/herself cropped the image.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 13:32, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:Sanja Matsuri from the steps of the Shrine.jpg
Thank you for uploading File:Sanja Matsuri from the steps of the Shrine.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. NW ( Talk ) 18:29, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Script
Hi, I noticed that you are using my script, and I thought I would let you know that I have split the script into two, namely User:Plastikspork/monobook.js/script.js and User:Plastikspork/date.js. If you would like to use both, you can just add importScript('User:Plastikspork/monobook.js/script.js'); and importScript('User:Plastikspork/date.js'); to your monobook.js. Alternatively, if you are only using the date formatting buttons, you can just add the date.js script. Let me know if you have any questions, comments, bug reports, suggestions, requests, or really anything. Thanks! Plastikspork (talk) 21:53, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Cloud Gate FA thanks
Cloud Gate has achieved WP:FA status and you have been an active editor of the article. Thank you for your involvement, especially with the imagework. --TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 03:28, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

BP Pedestrian Bridge FA thanks
Thank you for your editorial involvement in BP Pedestrian Bridge.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 03:34, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Yasukuni
Thanks for noticing. I kind of "took over" the Shinto Site, Yasukuni site, Kami Site and will likely go after the Shinto Shrine, and a few other related articles. I have also recruited several Shinto experts (shinto priest historians, American and Japanese) to help. Certainly I welcome any review and cleanup, but please do so with a light hand as I have not gotten to citations, and much of this work is to be cited. I did completely restructure the Yasukuni site once before, and will further fleshit out along with the controvercies article. Thanks for the help. If you had time to improve grammar, flow, and spelling I would not complain. Takashi Ueki (talk) 23:53, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

McDonald's Cycle Center FAC
Since you have been so active in the Millennium Park WP:CHIFTD, you may want to comment at Featured article candidates/McDonald's Cycle Center/archive1‎.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:34, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Fac2 is underway. Would you care to render an opinion on the topic regarding costs that is at issue.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 02:54, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Over a week ago you got involved and then said "give me a bit more to think about it." Your thoughts would be appreciated.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:11, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your opinion. You did not support, oppose or state any concerns that you felt needed to be addressed.  It would also be helpful if you have time to do one of these things.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 18:51, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Infobox
Can we get the Template:Infobox baseball biography to be the same size as Template:Infobox MLB player, because there is no reason for one to be smaller than the other.--Yankees10 15:11, 7 August 2009 (UTC)


 * To be honost I have no idea how to change the size, I can see if I can get some one to help if you cant figure it out--Yankees10 15:18, 7 August 2009 (UTC)


 * We should also try to make it so that there is a section for both the players MLB statistics and other league statistics.--Yankees10 15:24, 7 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I think the infobox looks great hopefully no one says anything. With the stat thing would you object to having two sections of stats?--Yankees10 16:05, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Category:Top-importance Chicago articles
For the rest of this month we are looking for more candidates to be promoted to Category:Top-importance Chicago articles. We are hoping to bring the list of category members to a total of 50. Either you have participated in past votes and discussions or you have recently signed up to be a part of WP:CHICAGO. In either case, please come visit Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chicago/Assessment where we are determining who to add to the September 1st ballot. Some candidate debates have lingered, but there are many new ones from the project's top 50 according to the Wikipedia:Release Version 0.7. Help us determine which pages to add to the ballot.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:16, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

WikiBirthday and GA Review
While I was reviewing Star Wars: Episode I: Battle for Naboo, I noticed today was your WikiBirthday - congrats!  The Flash  {talk} 18:04, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

WP:CHICAGO voting for Top-importance Chicago articles
Your status has been changed to inactive at WikiProject Chicago/members since you did not respond to our confirmation of active status request. If this is an error please come update your status. Also feel free to come vote at WikiProject_Chicago/Assessment for our next Category:Top-importance Chicago articles. Voting continues until September 10 and nominations/discussions are ongoing for future ballot candidates at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chicago/Assessment.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 02:12, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Surprise you did not have an opinion on this.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:27, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes the Mayors list has potential. I was actually hoping for an opinion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chicago/Assessment/Voting though.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Naboo check
I've begun some basic checks of Naboo and made some changes; more may come. I also noticed "Game Developer Confessions: Rare Commentary Explains Whys And Hows" by MTV's Stephen Totilo, which says that Naboo's audio commentary "may very well be" the "earliest audio commentary in video games". It doesn't say outright that it was the first, but neither does the IGN article with the cheatcode. --an odd name 07:41, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Image comment at FAC
Please comment on the current image considerations at Crown Fountain FAC4. You may even be able to get us a great image yourself.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 03:07, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Picture policies
Torsodog, in no way am I doubting what you told me over at Featured article candidates/Crown Fountain/archive4, but I am still confused. When I look at Eiffel Tower, the image at the top of the article is a high resolution picture that, when expanded, is more than eight times bigger than my monitor. I like this because I get to see all kinds of detail up close. Why can that be done there and not on Crown Fountain? And if I take a picture of something and post it to Wikimedia, can't I chose to allow anyone to use whatever level of resolution they want? I'm just not up to speed yet on these copyright issues, and they so rarely intersect my work that I haven't learned it yet. Can you explain it to me more? Un sch  ool  04:38, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Rookie of the Year
Hey hey, I've added the stats per your and KV5's suggestion/request. Please let me know what you think! Staxringold talkcontribs 21:01, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Heyo, fixed up one of your two comments and explained the other one. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:50, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Yasukuni shrine
Hi, Torsodog. You reverted deiteies to kami. I think deiteies or guardian deities or spirits or souls or heroic souls or heroic sprits are more suitable than kami. Because the Yasukuni shrine english version official site don't use the word kami. moreover the word kami is japanse word, however in japanse the enshrined were commonly called as 英霊 (eirei, literaly means heroic sprits or heroic souls), sometimes also called as 英霊の御霊 (eirei no mitama, literaly means departed soul of heroic sprits or departed soul of heroic souls). There is other word 神霊(shin rei, literaly means soul of kami or sprits of kami), this word is literary dialect so not common. Certainly, they were kami, however the word kami is not used in japanse and in english for the enshrined. Present version of the article was writen the word kami with italic. I think the use of italic is specify the word or express non english word's original pronouncation, however they are not called as kami. So I think we should change kami to more suitable other word.--Bukubku (talk) 13:49, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Trump Tower FAC
You have not responded to my attempt to address your concerns.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 18:20, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Buckingham Fountain
There was a gallery that was recently added to Buckingham Fountain. Remembering your love for galleries from past experiences I thought I would ask your opinion of it :) I am not a fan of it. Thanks.Naipicnirp (talk) 00:23, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

It was about the bridgeway. I had worked on the gallery and was just angry that you were right about it not being needed (haha). I have a question now though- as I am sure you saw on my talk page I had 2 people warn me about edits made to MY OWN talk page- do these stick around (prevent me from gaining additional editing privileges) if I should want them in the future? Thanks! Naipicnirp (talk) 20:28, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

WP:TFAR
Please check TFAR about the removal of Posting system. Technically, this may have been removed improperly, but since it was replaced by a 5 pointer on the same date, it almost surely would be replaced sooner or later anyway. Your understanding is appreciated. Smallbones (talk) 14:49, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

File:Mt.Fuji from Kitadake-sansou 01.jpg
Someone, from Portal:Japan/Selected_picture/27 I think you, removed the "selected picture" information from the Commons image description. Please use a proper edit summary for such edits, otherwise someone can think the edit was a mistake (the edit triggered an abuse filter, therefore the notice). --Martin H. (talk) 16:43, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Tall image
Does the scrollbar work? Shoemaker's Holiday Over 210 FCs served 17:32, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Chinreisha
You deleted Chinreisha from the section of precinct. See Ise Grand Shrine, Japanese shrine has some shrines in its precinct. Chinreisha belongs to Yasukuni shrine and founded in Yasukuni shrine precinct. So Chinreisha should be writen in the section of Precinct. According to your logic, if someone create the page Yushukan, Yushukan should be deleted from Yasukuni shrine page, but most people don't want so. I think Chinreisha should be writen in the section of precinct. Do you have any questions?--Bukubku (talk) 06:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

List of space flight simulator games image
Recently you removed the picture of examples of space flight simualor games. Why? You said it was a non-free image? Can you give me a hand and let me know how to take a free image? The picture was taken of the sides of the boxes and not the front of the boxes and it was not a detailed photo, also the photo has been posted more than a year ago, if you would be so kind as to post some information on how someone could create a photo that would fall under the fair use policy of wikipedia that would be much appreciated. Thank you for your time. --59.156.132.57 (talk) 07:44, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Torsodog, there was so much confusion about just what exactly a space flight simulator was, so the description was created, but that still wasn't enough and people kept on adding things like RTS and 2D space games, this is where the picture came in. The picture has been a big help to people as it immediately identifies that a Space Flight Sim is not a RTS or a 2D Sim. I am more than certain that I could get the permission of a couple of the copyright holders to take a picture just to make it absolutely crystal clear for people who are visiting this page. Or is it possible to take a super low resolution picture of the sides of the boxes? Would that be ok? I tell ya man, I really appreciated your last response. If it is not possible then, well, then it is not possible, but if all that someone needs to do is to take a low rez picture then that would be easy and fine. Torsodog, the only reason why I care is because I really do believe that it is important to the readers understanding of this article. Without that picture this article could decay into a mess of giant proportion. What do you think? --59.156.132.57 (talk) 00:07, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Crown Fountain
Thanks for being one of the many hands that helped raise Crown Fountain from WP:GA to WP:FA status. --TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:51, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

.

Bulleted lists
I disagree with an edit summary in one of your edits of the Yasukuni Shrine.

This niggling point is not about the edits -- only that terse summary comment. You may remember explaining that "prose is preferred over bulleted lists." In the explicit context of shrine structures at Yasukuni, the terse notes you converted into flowing prose were adequate; however, the list failed to suggest relationships between the structures in a manner which invites the reader into the shrine prencincts.

In my view, your re-writing is better because your words encourage the reader to conceive of the buildings as parts of an integrated whole. Because of your changes, I begin to imagine a future version in which other buildings and structures are encompassed within the section you've been working to improve. Expressed differently, I can see that what you've done is better. We're on the same page.

At the same time, I disagree that the "Memorials" section needs to be re-worked in the same way. For now, the bullets seem best ....

This is a subtle point. Do you understand what I'm trying to say or do I need to work on this a bit more?

Bottom line: I'm only questioning one word and the concepts that the term "preferred" seems to imply. --Tenmei (talk) 07:13, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Image request in your neighborhood
See Talk:McDonald's_Cycle_Center.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 21:10, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow! I really l;ike the new night time picture of the Cycle Center (and the new layout too). For all your hard work,

Pritzker Pavilion image
At the Pritzker Pavilion PR, mentioned that he thinks Jay Pritzker Pavilion could use a better main image.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 03:25, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (File:Crown fountain spouting.ogg)
 Thanks for uploading File:Crown fountain spouting.ogg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of "file" pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you.  Zoo Fari  04:45, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Pui Tak Center
The article Pui Tak Center you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Pui Tak Center for eventual comments about the article. Well done! Gbern3 (talk) 02:08, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much for the review!! -- T orsodo g Talk 14:25, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Congratulations! You may want to consider adding a map like the one at Museum of Contemporary Art, Chicago or Chicago Loop.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:09, 14 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Here is how I make maps. It is roundabout but it works.
 * 1) Find a Chicago map on WP from OpenStreetMaps like the ones I mentioned above.
 * 2) Click on it to go to its description page
 * 3) Click on its source link
 * 4) Zoom out a bit
 * 5) Move the map so it is centered on where I want
 * 6) Zoom in.
 * 7) Use the export feature to save the map to my hard drive
 * 8) Use microsoft paint to add black borders
 * 9) Note the permalink will give you the source link
 * 10) Upload the map to commons with all the same templates as the original map

If you don't want a map in the article because it might crowd images let me know. I am considering making one for it. I just made a map for Petrillo Music Shell using the instructions above, BTW.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 00:57, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I am going to make a map and slap it in. You can remove it if you like.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 06:49, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It is really small on the map I used, but if you can see the dot, you should be able to really tell where it is in relation to other things. I could create a more focussed map if you like or you could just remove the map altogether.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 07:06, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Template
"I work a lot on baseball articles, and by is also still used." Then it should go too. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Many otters • One bat • One hammer) 21:11, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Waterfalls, waterfalls, waterfalls!
Feeling wikistress? Wish you could have a vacation someplace with two dozen waterfalls? Well the next best thing is here!

If you want to, please come look at pictures of waterfalls and pick which ones you like best. You'll be helping make a better article too.

Thanks, Dincher (talk) and Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:52, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

P.S. That wikilink again: User talk:Ruhrfisch/Waterfalls

Wikipedia:Peer review/McCormick Tribune Plaza & Ice Rink/archive1‎
Feel free to help respond to issues at Peer review/McCormick Tribune Plaza & Ice Rink/archive1‎.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 19:01, 19 November 2009 (UTC)--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 19:01, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I got a comment about coordinates at this FAC. I saw what you did for List of tallest buildings in Chicago and know you are familiar with researching coordinates.  Could you add them for me?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:14, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I would love to, but it looks like they are already in the article! Am I missing something?? -- T orsodo g Talk 15:24, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Autoreviewer
Hi Torsodog, after noticing some of your recent articles at NewPage patrol, I've had the Autoreviewer flag set on for your account. So in future any articles you create will bypass the new page patrol process, as they will be automatically marked as patrolled.  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  09:37, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Maps
I see you are getting the hang of the OpenStreetMap. Since you are the Chinatown guy, you may want to do one for Armour Square, Chicago like some of the other community areas such as Chicago Loop or Hyde Park, Chicago.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:15, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I started making them for the community areas and then I got sidetracked. Yes it is a great resource.  I have done a lot of geographic articles that I should make maps for.  There is so much to do on WP.  P.S. I moved your GAC to geography.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 02:28, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Seasons Greetings

 * Thanks!! Same to you! -- T orsodo g Talk 16:49, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Bayonetta
You've edited articles on Japan and video games, so you might like to peer review Bayonetta, a Japanese video game's article that involves witches, cross-console ports, butterflies, the creator of Devil May Cry, and computer-aided butt modeling. :) --an odd name 20:29, 27 December 2009 (UTC)