User talk:Tracy Symonds-Keogh

Welcome!
Hello, Tracy Symonds-Keogh, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:
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Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or, and a volunteer should respond shortly. Again, welcome! OnionRing (talk) 17:10, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

Your contributed article, ((Brendan Dassey))


Hello, I noticed that you recently created a new page, ((Brendan Dassey)). First, thank you for your contribution; Wikipedia relies solely on the efforts of volunteers such as you. Unfortunately, the page you created covers a topic on which we already have a page – Steven Avery. Because of the duplication, your article has been tagged for speedy deletion. Please note that this is not a comment on you personally and we hope you will continue helping to improve Wikipedia. If the topic of the article you created is one that interests you, then perhaps you would like to help out at Steven Avery – you might like to discuss new information at the article's talk page.

If you think the article you created should remain separate, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Additionally if you would like to have someone review articles you create before they go live so they are not nominated for deletion shortly after you post them, allow me to suggest the article creation process and using our search feature to find related information we already have in the encyclopedia. Try not to be discouraged. Wikipedia looks forward to your future contributions. noq (talk) 17:20, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

Your contributed article, ((Brendan Dassey))


Hello, I noticed that you recently created a new page, ((Brendan Dassey)). First, thank you for your contribution; Wikipedia relies solely on the efforts of volunteers such as you. Unfortunately, the page you created covers a topic on which we already have a page – Steven Avery. Because of the duplication, your article has been tagged for speedy deletion. Please note that this is not a comment on you personally and we hope you will continue helping to improve Wikipedia. If the topic of the article you created is one that interests you, then perhaps you would like to help out at Steven Avery – you might like to discuss new information at the article's talk page.

If you think the article you created should remain separate, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Additionally if you would like to have someone review articles you create before they go live so they are not nominated for deletion shortly after you post them, allow me to suggest the article creation process and using our search feature to find related information we already have in the encyclopedia. Try not to be discouraged. Wikipedia looks forward to your future contributions. Everymorning (talk) 17:57, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

June 2016
Please do not add content or create pages that attack, threaten, or disparage their subject. Attack pages and files are not tolerated by Wikipedia and are speedily deleted. Users who create or add such material will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Thank you. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 07:45, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
 * The article wasn't really an attack page; it was about Brendan Dassey, a person involved in the Steven Avery case. (Still, it was duplicate with the already existing articles Steven Avery and Making a Murderer.) - Mike Rosoft (talk) 07:52, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

You are correct. My mistake. My apologies. I did not completely read the Making a Murderer in that there were two people involved. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 07:55, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Your contributed article, Brendan R Dassey Making a Murderer


Hello, I noticed that you recently created a new page, Brendan R Dassey Making a Murderer. First, thank you for your contribution; Wikipedia relies solely on the efforts of volunteers such as you. Unfortunately, the page you created covers a topic on which we already have a page – Steven Avery. Because of the duplication, your article has been tagged for speedy deletion. Please note that this is not a comment on you personally and we hope you will continue helping to improve Wikipedia. If the topic of the article you created is one that interests you, then perhaps you would like to help out at Steven Avery – you might like to discuss new information at the article's talk page.

If you think the article you created should remain separate, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Additionally if you would like to have someone review articles you create before they go live so they are not nominated for deletion shortly after you post them, allow me to suggest the article creation process and using our search feature to find related information we already have in the encyclopedia. Try not to be discouraged. Wikipedia looks forward to your future contributions. OnionRing (talk) 08:21, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Brendan Dassey
Hi Tracy. I wanted to answer your question from the article's talk page before it gets deleted. There are a number of problems with the article that you've been reposting.

Please have a read of WP:BIO and WP:CRIMINAL. Now it's possible that he may be notable enough for an article according to those guidelines. But you've got to write an even-handed article from a WP:Neutral point of view, and as it's a biography of a living person it needs every single controversial claim to be referenced by WP:Secondary, WP:Reliable sources to WP:Verify the claims. At the moment it reads like an investigative journalism article in a magazine, and it's full of WP:Original research. Instead, it needs to be just documentation of what can be firmly established about him, without any campaigning for his release. Otherwise it will just get deleted again.

I think an article can be written about him, having done a search online about him. So may I suggest that you start a draft in your user sandbox (it's up at the top right of this page), and take your time writing the article with all of those guidelines in mind. I'm happy to help you with this if you'd like, just give me a shout. Thanks, OnionRing (talk) 12:23, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I endorse that: create a neutral and objective article in your sandbox or via AfC and also discuss the matter at talk:Steven Avery. Trying to force an article in on improbable titles will merely antogonise people. &mdash; RHaworth (talk · contribs) 09:16, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Help me!
Please help me with my page I am trying to create for Brendan Dassey. I have tried a few times and today spent hours including references and links and trying to make it neutral but was met with disdain. I am new to Wikipedia so would appreciate some guidance and someone to help me as I write it to ensure its keeping in line with Wiki criteria.

Thanks very much

11:24, 5 June 2016 (UTC)Tracy Symonds-Keogh (talk)


 * To be blunt, what you wrote reads more like a petition or a piece of advocacy than an encyclopedia article. A large part of your sources were not reliable, the content was one-sided and even contained errors of fact. Wikipedia is not the place to right great wrongs. Huon (talk) 12:24, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Brendan Dassey (June 5)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Robert McClenon was:

The comment the reviewer left was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Brendan Dassey and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Brendan_Dassey Articles for creation help desk] or on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Robert_McClenon&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Brendan_Dassey reviewer's talk page].
 * You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Robert McClenon (talk) 14:45, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Comfort
You may take comfort from the fact that your draft was rejected on grounds of style rather than content. You clearly did not bother to test any of the external links in the body of your article because every single one is malformed. In any case all external links should be sent to the end of the article by using &lt;ref>s. &mdash; RHaworth (talk · contribs) 20:57, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Thank you at least I am starting to get somewhere - I will look at the links and the correct way to reference.

Thanks

Tracy Symonds-Keogh (talk) 23:02, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 5 June
Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/RBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/RBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=ReferenceBot%20–%20&section=new report it to my operator]. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:20, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * On the Draft:Brendan Dassey page, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=723832249 your edit] caused a broken reference name (help) . ([ Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:ReferenceBot/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F723832249%7CDraft:Brendan Dassey%5D%5D Ask for help])

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Brendan Dassey, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. . Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia! Tracy Symonds-Keogh (talk) 08:16, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
 * If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the  [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_talk/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Brendan_Dassey help desk] .
 * If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider.

Thank you for your review, this page is not a copy of the other page - I believe that is linked to Making a Murderer, this is solely dedicated to Brendan Dassey giving a much more comprehensive recollection his life, his charges, the dialogue surrounding interrogations of minors, the Reid Technique and a listing of trial and interrogation transcripts.

When you type in Brendan Dassey there is no page that comes up, the Steven Avery page does, so I wanted to create a page that would be dedicated solely to Mr.Dassey.

Many thanks

Tracy Symonds-Keogh (talk) 08:16, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation Brendan Dassey
 Brendan Dassey, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. . Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia! Tracy Symonds-Keogh (talk) 08:31, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
 * If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the  [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_talk/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Brendan_Dassey help desk] .
 * If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider.

Please excuse me I am learning to navigate Wikipedia - so I certainly hope this comment is relayed to the reviewer.

Just further the redirect is to the page for Steven Avery, he is one of the two main characters of Making a Murderer with Brendan Dassey the other, as notable and a topic of subculture conversation surrounding criminal justice reform coerced confessions and interrogations of minors.

It is in no way a copy as it is a separate individual the content is different, sources and most definitely the originating author (myself) are different also.

Many thanks

Tracy Symonds-Keogh (talk) 08:31, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Draft Brendan Dassey
I am just seeking assistance in replying to the reviewer on verification that my proposed page is completely different to the one listed in the comment which is for Steven Avery?

Not sure how to do it?

Many thanks

Tracy Symonds-Keogh (talk) 09:38, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Just message the editor on his talk page. ThePlatypusofDoom (Talk) 21:10, 9 June 2016 (UTC)


 * this user would like to discuss this with you. Thanks. Rotideypoc41352 (talk) 21:13, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Reply to your Articles for Creation Help Desk question about Draft:Brendan Dassey
Hello, Tracy Symonds-Keogh! I'm St170e. I have replied to your question about Draft:Brendan Dassey at the WikiProject Articles for Creation Help Desk st170e talk 01:01, 10 June 2016 (UTC) st170e talk  01:01, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Brendan Dassey (June 10)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by St170e was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Brendan Dassey and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Brendan_Dassey Articles for creation help desk] or on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:St170e&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Brendan_Dassey reviewer's talk page].
 * You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

st170e talk 01:29, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Brendan Dassey (June 13)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by St170e was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Brendan Dassey and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Brendan_Dassey Articles for creation help desk] or on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:St170e&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Brendan_Dassey reviewer's talk page].
 * You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

st170e talk 20:59, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Talkback
st170e talk 21:00, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Brendan Dassey has a new comment
 I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Brendan Dassey. Thanks! st170e talk 00:36, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Brendan Dassey has been accepted
 Brendan Dassey, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created. The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article. You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. . Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia! st170e talk 01:31, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
 * If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the  [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_talk/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Brendan_Dassey help desk] .
 * If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider.

Brendan Dassey
You have not cited any sources that Dassey was born in Two Rivers or that he was raised in Mishicot. The nearest hospital to where the Dasseys lived in 2005-2007 was Two Rivers. Being born in a hospital in a city does not make one from that city. During that same time period, he attended school in Mishicot, but his family lived in the Town of Gibson, a rural area outside the boundaries of any city or village. Although the family's mailing address was Two Rivers, that's just the postal station that handled their mail. It might be helpful if you became more familiar with American jurisdictions. 32.218.43.254 (talk) 00:09, 20 June 2016 (UTC)


 * The Town of Gibson is correct. Did you even bother to look at the official source I cited? Moreover, it is absolutely crystal clear from the official Wisconsin map of Manitowoc County that Avery Road is in the Town of Gibson. That's where the Dasseys lived 2005-2007. (BTW, Gibson is a town, not a city or a village. It would be a good idea if you figured out what that means. Otherwise you're just throwing around names of places you know nothing about.)
 * Please keep the conversation in one place. 32.218.43.254 (talk) 01:52, 20 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Wow there's no need to patronise me, I have taken on board everything every editor has suggested, I agree I am not familiar with the area, and I can see the Avery Yard is close to Gibson yet everything even their own signage states Two Rivers I do know that Gibson was originally a part of Two Rivers and I can see the court documents also states Gibson. Regardless I just want it to be accurate, so thanks for your help.


 * It isn't "close" to Gibson; it's IN Gibson. The Town of Gibson is the large square area bounded by County Trunk BB on the north, County Trunk B on the east, County Trunk Y on the south, and a line running for six miles from County Trunk BB south through Nachtwey Road on the west. If you can't figure that out from looking at the map, there is a cheat sheet in the bottom right corner of the map showing the boundaries of all the civil towns in the county. Gibson was never ever part of Two Rivers. That's not how jurisdictions work in Wisconsin. Two Rivers is a city and Gibson is a town. Cities, which are incorporated, develop out of towns (sometimes), which are unincorporated, not the other way around. And Two Rivers could not possibly have developed out of Gibson because they're not even contiguous.
 * More sources:
 * "Avery Auto Salvage Property and the defendant's premises, located at 12932 Avery Road, in the Town of Gibson, County of Manitowoc, Wisconsin"
 * "The above-named defendant on Monday, October 31, 2005, at 12932 Avery Road, Town of Gibson, Manitowoc County, Wisconsin, as a party to a crime, did cause the death of Teresa M. Halbach"
 * "the town of Gibson, where the salvage yard is located"
 * "Avery’s Auto Salvage premises in the Town of Gibson"
 * I sure hope you don't think the official court documents are wrong.
 * The Avery signage says "Two Rivers" because that's their postal address, as already explained. 32.218.43.254 (talk) 02:18, 20 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Im not doubting anything and what I referred to was that Gibson was originally part of Two Rivers, of course Im not arguing with court documents. Thanks

Tracy Symonds-Keogh (talk) 03:48, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
 * As I said, the Town of Gibson was NEVER part of the city of Two Rivers. See A History of Manitowoc County (1904) and History of Manitowoc County, Wisconsin (1912). It can clearly be seen that the Town of Gibson has existed since 1858, whereas the city of Two Rivers wasn't incorporated until 1870. Thus Gibson could never have been part of Two Rivers. 32.218.43.254 (talk) 04:30, 20 June 2016 (UTC)


 * http://townofgibsonwi.com/

Tracy Symonds-Keogh (talk) 04:39, 20 June 2016 (UTC)


 * What we have here is a colossal failure to understand ... As the sources I cited make perfectly clear to anyone who bothers to read them and who understands them, the Town of Gibson was formed from the Town of Two Rivers, not the city of Two Rivers. The city of Two Rivers was incorporated as a village from a portion of the Town of Two Rivers long before the city of Two Rivers existed. The village of Two Rivers later incorporated as a city, long after the Town of Gibson was created. Unincorporated towns CANNOT be formed from incorporated cities, but it's obvious you refuse to even try to understand. RTFM. In any case, the Town of Gibson was formed in 1852. Dassey clearly didn't live in Two Rivers in 2005-2007. 32.218.44.54 (talk) 14:08, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Comments
It seems that you had an encounter with a rude IP editor at Brendan Dassey, and then made the good-faith mistake of trying to report the editor at the Open Proxy reporting service. That reporting should be used only to report a particular type of IP address, one which is a so-called open proxy, used either deliberately (as in the TOR network) or cluelessly (due to misconfiguration) to conceal where edits are coming from. In the future, if you have problems with an IP editor, just as if you have problems with a registered editor, read the dispute resolution policy, discuss on an article talk page, and, if that is unsuccessful for any reason, follow one of the dispute resolution procedures. In the case of an editor who refuses to discuss their edits, which is a conduct issue, report at the edit-warring noticeboard if there is edit-warring, the vandalism noticeboard if the edits are vandalism (but not if they are not), or WP:ANI. In this case, although you didn't report the IP editor properly, it seems that the IP range has been blocked as what is known as a Checkuser block because it is being used for block evasion by a blocked or banned user. In the future, if you are having problems with editing as a new editor and need advice, ask for advice at the Teahouse or the Help Desk. Also, I have provided you with a long welcome message giving you many helpful links to policies and guidelines. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:50, 21 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for the guidance, I just found it quite relentless and surprising. Thanks for the tips, hopefully I never have to report such issues as all other editors even those who were blunt always afforded me constructive criticism. Also is this user blocked as they are destroying my article and removing verifiable and pertinent pieces of information? This is extremely unfair behaviour.

Much appreciated

Tracy Symonds-Keogh (talk) 03:14, 21 June 2016 (UTC)