User talk:Trev fro

List of breweries in San Diego County, California

 * Hello, Trev fro, and thanks for your interest in San Diego breweries. I saw your message to IronGargoyle. I am not IronGargoyle, but I am a frequent editor to that page (and in fact I was the original author of it). I'd just like to say that I agree with IronGargoyle's changes, and I'd like to explain why. In order to be listed here, a brewery has to have received significant coverage, written about it by independent reliable sources (such as general-circulation newspapers). Breweries that have a Wikipedia article already meet this standard. A few others are included with a reference to show significant coverage. San Diego County has more than 100 breweries, but we do not list them all, only the most noteworthy. As for the neighborhoods, that was a nice thought, but not really helpful for the list; some have multiple locations, others are in poorly defined neighborhoods, and there is little or not sourcing to support what neighborhood we assign it to. (For example, you listed Karl Strauss in Bay Ho, which is not a bad guess, but the company itself says it is in Pacific Beach.) I know you worked hard on these additions and I'm sorry they don't meet Wikipedia's criteria. If you want to try writing articles about individual breweries, you should realize that we try to have articles only about breweries that have won multiple medals in international competition (plus a few which are historically important). There certainly are some such breweries that we don't have articles about yet, and if you'd like to start a draft of an article in your sandbox I'll be glad to help you with it. --MelanieN (talk) 00:19, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi MelanieN, I am afraid I do not understand why the breweries have to be noteworthy. The first line of the article specifically says "This list includes large breweries, microbreweries, nanobreweries and brewpubs in San Diego County, California." That means it should list All 123 breweries in San Diego. Nowhere in that statement does it say that these are noteworthy breweries, so that should be changed if the page has specifications like that. Additionally, the article is called List of breweries in San Diego, not List of noteworthy breweries in San Diego. The information I am providing the page is accurate to what the page claims to be about. For someone who likes to visit breweries, a page like this can serve as a guide to the breweries in the area and that should be inclusive, not exclusive. Just because a brewery does not have an article written about it (yet) or some well known award won does not mean it is not worthy of being on Wikipedia. In the case of brewery tourism, someone who does not know that most of the breweries are listed in the San Diego Brewer's Guild website (some are listed in smaller Brewer's Guilds like Vista) might come to look at Wikipedia as it is a top link when searching San Diego breweries. In limiting this page to "noteworthy" breweries, the page reduces the traffic to unlisted breweries and further prevents them from becoming as well known as the currently well known breweries.
 * As far as the neighborhoods, I also do not understand not wanting those dividers. Yes, the Karl Strauss might be listed as being in Pacific Beach because Pacific Beach is a much more well known name than Bay Ho, but it is on the other side of the 5 freeway and is thus in Bay Ho. Excluding that detail, I listed each location for a brewery/tasting room: so Karl Strauss has their brewery in Bay Ho/Pacific Beach, La Jolla, Sorrento Valley etc. That means that if people go on the page, they can see that there are multiple locations. Stone is currently listed as being in Escondido and in San Diego and that makes the cut. I can create map pictures with each brewery location if that would help clarify the poorly defined neighborhoods problem. The neighborhoods of San Diego are actually very clearly depicted, especially if you look at google maps.
 * As for articles about breweries, again, I really do not understand why they require medals if they brew beer and are open. I think they all deserve a page, even if it is short, because each brewery has a story. I would really appreciate the help as I am new the writing articles.Trev fro (talk) 05:03, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I understand why you feel this way - that EVERY brewery should have an article. Unfortunately that's not how Wikipedia operates. This is an international encyclopedia, and so it restricts itself to things that deserve to be in an international encyclopedia. As someone once explained it, we do not have articles about every restaurant in the world. We do have articles about The Pump Room, Chicago and the 21 Club; we do not have an article about my favorite little Italian restaurant down the street. Where do we draw the line? That is explained at WP:GNG. We limit ourselves to subjects that have already been published about by multiple independent reliable sources. That's for articles; the subject of an article has to be notable by that criterion. For purposes of this list, some people argued that it should include only breweries that are notable enough to have their own article; others (including me) argued me that breweries without an article could be included if they have ONE significant reference (i.e., an article about them, not just a mention) in an independent reliable source. In any case it was never intended to be an exhaustive list; see WP:NOTDIRECTORY and WP:NOTTRAVEL.
 * As you know, there has been a suggestion that this list should be merged into the article List of breweries in California. The trend of the discussion seems to favor merging it. I would prefer it to stay as a separate list, but Wikipedia operates by WP:Consensus, so the result of the discussion will determine what happens. If it is merged, the criteria may be even stricter; it may be limited to breweries with articles, as is the case with many Wikipedia lists. --MelanieN (talk) 19:27, 26 April 2016 (UTC)